Who, why and how. This should be interesting.

Thanks for the idea, @hawk2916.

Lol. So I think I have a few here.

Iceman- I thought Marjorie Liu did some interesting stuff with him in Astonishing. She made him legitimate threat and all and so first off I want him going evil. Maybe taken over and corrupted by whatever Apocalypse seed he had and loses his humanity completely. Make him have no feeling for anything anymore, basically a cruel, cold-hearted, and asexual character.

Magik- As much as I like her, I think I'd have her go full villain. She'd basically have to use her power in limbo to save the Xmen or New Mutants or something and she's corrupted and is overtaken by her demonic side.

Hope Summers- Don't know if she really counts as an Xman but.. I've detailed on the forums how I'd have her become sort of a dark Messiah. But she basically is captured, tortured becomes a hound, then escapes and actually controls an army of mutants. They attack some sort of rally or election campaign speech or whatever but anyway the Six Second War actually happens in which over a million lives are lost in that short timeframe.

Rachel Grey- I know my partner in crime @koays might want to kill me for this one but.... I say this not really because I want her to go this route, but because maybe she needs to. It's been proven really that most writers don't know what to do with her. Claremont did her pretty decent at times, I always thought Brubaker did well with her, so did Wood until he did the whole Sublime romance bs. Can't think of too many more who wrote her well. Now that Jean is back, Rachel will definitely get kicked to the curb even more seats than Guggenheim has in favor of his hard on for Kitty. I'm afraid that they've been looking and finally found a way to kill her off. So I say instead of doing that make her a villian. Turn her into what Magneto used to be. Have her tragic backstory mold her into a by any means necessary type of character determined to prevent a dystopian future for her kind by ridding the world violently of any opposition. I actually liked the potential of how she was written in secret wars, when she was unapologetic and kinda ruthless in protecting her domain. So have her be that but turned up even more. Either that or make her go full fledged hound but take over the program and seek to control mutants for her own gain.

Beast- I actually don't really know if I want him redeemed or not these days. But it may be far more interesting to see him go full villian. I mean like Dark Beast, I always thought it would be great if he really wasn't from another reality but basically what Hank would become. I even thought that Beast along with his crawlers was the most interesting part of the Here Comes Tomorrow story. I kinda want him to get so immersed in science and all that he goes mad from experimenting on himself. Sort of a metaphor for the workaholic mentality prevalent in many cultures.

Danger- Never was a fan of the sentient enslaved robot idea. I think I'd have Danger broken down, dispersed and downloaded if you will into a new form of Sentinel equipped to hunt and fight mutants.

Sabretooth would just go back to being a villian. If Fantomex still exist or comes back he would be a villian too.

Archangel was always better off as a villain. I'd have Warren legit choose Apocalypse's side.

@masterofevil said:

Archangel was always better off as a villain. I'd have Warren legit choose Apocalypse's side.

but warren was always against killing.........look how he first treating logan and even in x-men inferno, warren still hated logan's guts

I like it when Warren is torn by the dark side, but not entirely giving in. The character as a whole adopted this dichotomic theme and I love it when done right. K/Y handled it perfectly.

Hope Summers though, I'd go wild here.

Iceman

@hawk2916: I....I...goddammit, your right. At this point if they would just give Rachel one story arc based on her character history...anything DOFP, War against the Shiar, Askani...anything. I wouldn't care if she was a villain, hero, George Jetson whatever. As a fan I am so defeated by their treatment of her that I don't care as long as she does something and its written well.

@ashetdust: @adamtrmm: @koays: @hawk2916: ok im sensing alot of hope hate and u guys make it sound like just get rid of her forever by going evil COPE-OUT

FIRST IF U READ GENERATION HOPE, kenji was worried hope would control new mutants like the five lights and turn evil........there was even hints of hope in second coming "Will she be the destroyer or savior of mutants" thing........i could see her turning evil but then she will blame it on "the phoenix made me do it" like cyclops blamed for when he went dark phoenix summers' trait LOL

^^did the phoenix just say hope was her child?????LOLOLOLOLOLOL

@hopesummersforthefuture: well at this point they've made her irrelevant. On top of that to have the Xmen save and sort of raise what could become one of their biggest threats could be a very interesting dynamic to explore.

That's the image I was referring too. My opinion it's one of the most bad ass images from the whole run. It's not a cop out. My idea adds even more tragedy to her story and gives a decent justification for her doing what she does. And since the Xmen need villains she probably doesn't die at the end.

@hopesummersforthefuture: How awkward it would be if she turned out to be the child of "phoenixjean" & cyclops from dark phoenix saga.

@hopesummersforthefuture said:

@ashetdust: @adamtrmm: @koays: @hawk2916: ok im sensing alot of hope hate and u guys make it sound like just get rid of her forever by going evil COPE-OUT

FIRST IF U READ GENERATION HOPE, kenji was worried hope would control new mutants like the five lights and turn evil........there was even hints of hope in second coming "Will she be the destroyer or savior of mutants" thing........i could see her turning evil but then she will blame it on "the phoenix made me do it" like cyclops blamed for when he went dark phoenix summers' trait LOL

^^did the phoenix just say hope was her child?????LOLOLOLOLOLOL

What's that...the Dark Messiah theory.....wow I wonder who first fleshed out all the potential of that idea on the vine https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/x-men-155/the-hope-summers-conundrum-1577946/

@koays: but marvel still has no idea what to do with hope ........so shes barely in comics anyways LOL

my theory still stands

@koays:

What if hope summers was just the phoenix force in human form like when it took jean grey's place. Thats my theory

@mrnihal said:

@hopesummersforthefuture: How awkward it would be if she turned out to be the child of "phoenixjean" & cyclops from dark phoenix saga.

LOL i has a idea like this before.......like have mr sinister take a egg and sperm from scott and real jean and used hope's "mom" Louise Spaulding as a surrogate cause scott was with emma and jean was dead.........and there was this thing in uncanny x-men vol 2 when sinister told hope the phoenix was coming for her .........maybe sinister planned it all along......to have the phoenix come and fixed the house of M magic no more mutants .........

Logan should go evil, guy has been forced to wear yellow spandex for way too long. A man can only take so much.

Wolverine ofc.

@hopesummersforthefuture:

My theory on Hope is she is a piece of the PF given human form that will one day be reclaimed.

LOL well there was the "enemy of the state" wolverine arc where he was brainwashed by (was it?) hydra???? then he killed northstar

@ashetdust u said "My theory on Hope is she is a piece of the PF given human form that will one day be reclaimed."

why cant it be hope with the phoenix force user a new era for mutants and humans alike .........u know peace that they all wanted??????

@koays: that was a cool thread to revisit. Some good ideas there. It actually helpoed me flesh out my little story for Hope.

Lol remember the Hope is Maddie Pryor reborn idea? Lol

@hopesummersforthefuture said:

@masterofevil said:

Archangel was always better off as a villain. I'd have Warren legit choose Apocalypse's side.

but warren was always against killing.........look how he first treating logan and even in x-men inferno, warren still hated logan's guts

Remember recently when the Archangel persona merged with Warren? They could say that while he's fine now, all the nonsense that the X-men deal with would just weigh on him until he starts see things from Apocalypse's perspective ("Why would I ever hold hand with these idiot mouth-breathers?"). Big reveal, while Warren has been a hero for a long time, with his powers and his wealth, he's always felt like he was above most other people (Like Logan). Merging with Archangel would gradually make that side of him more prominent, but also make him more and more willing to kill.

@hawk2916: Lol just imagine if they made it to the moon, Hope meets with the Phoenix and all of a sudden the Phoenix costume turns dark and then crosses into the Goblin Queen outfit. Hope is a story line ball.

@hawk2916: Don’t worry. Hope definitely counts as a member after being on the extinction team.

As for my thoughts on who should be an X-villain...I’m not opposed to any member going villain, I guess I could have some preference under certain circumstances. Hers what I got:

1) Jean Grey: Jean has spoken of having a dark side before and we’ve gotten many versions of dark Jean Grey (Phoenix or not) That would make this one tricky. So, I’m not the most thrilled on this suggestion, but if done right I could get on board, briefly.

I’d love for Jean to be a Horseman if Apocalypse In Deaths position. Or we could get something similar to a vampire Jean Grey and have her crave psychic energy, making her like Madlyne or Selene, but of course, she’d be a desperate and guilty mess about it. Or Jean is blackmailed into the role of a villainess, maybe she needs to be a double agent which turns her into a brief antagonist only to go back to a hero afterwards.

Hope Summers: A Dark Hope Summers would be interesting to go with. We can turn her into Magneto or Cyclops 2.0, have her lead the mutant race with radical ideals. Or give her Bishops motivation and have her try to kill certain people based on future events, the difference being rather than simply assassinating them, she plays judge, jury, and executioner where she gives them the choice of going with what she feels is best for the future or just killing them on the spot if they refuse. We could also have her team up with or be manipulated by someone like Quentin Quire, though that is a bit of a cop out in my opinion.

What do you think of these ideas @koays and @hawk2916 in regards to Hope?

Magik: Always seemed too corrupted for my tastes to be on the team as a trustworthy member beyond Colossus. I think they should separate her from her demonic side, just have mutant Illyana and Darchilde.

Emma Frost: Needs to be done properly if they want to go down that path. That is all.

Stepford Cuckoos: I like the Thousand-in-One idea. The Cuckoos would become their own army. Although making Emma master over them or any other psychic villain would make it easy, I’d much rather they be a force of their own and be like a psychic network with a single goal in mind like a parasite or virus. The original Five-In-One would head this army in my eyes.

Danger: Being the machine that trains the X-Men, it’s logically the best bet of taking them down. Give it Sentinel-tech and boom! Mastermold is reborn!

Idie: Turning Idie into a villain would be a great counter to Storm in my opinion, or Iceman. They kind of approached the whole Idie killing thing a bit before, so pushing her all the way, noble or not, would be a great way of making her antagonistic.

Namor: He has been an antagonist before and has his own army. Simply have him butt heads with any of the X-leaders or have the X-Men ideals interfere with his plans for his kingdom and voíle.

Elixir: I liked the Elixir storyline Bunn briefly had going in his Uncanny run. Though part of me wishes that it was less of an alternate personality and Moreno of either him really holding a grudge or just simply accidentally creating undead and putting the X-Men in a spot of whether to kill him or not.

Lockheed: Make him bigger and feral. Good drama for Kitty Pryde.

@pyrofn: not a bad idea for Hope. Kinda similar to some other Dark Messiah ideas.

I actually really like that idea for Magik separating her from her demonic side and just leaving her as mutant. Having the Darkchilde just exist on its own with no remorse and all about being a straight villain would be an interesting twist for sure. Awesome!

@hawk2916: Agreed. It’s more befitting of how that persona is described, especially when you think of the name.

No one thinks good things when they hear Dark Phoenix, Goblin Queen, or Shadow King, so making Magiks Darchilde persona an inconvenience to her while having Magik still be as trigger happy as Psylocke when it comes to killing really just comes off as inconsistent and boring.

@hopesummersforthefuture said:

@ashetdust: @adamtrmm: @koays: @hawk2916: ok im sensing alot of hope hate and u guys make it sound like just get rid of her forever by going evil COPE-OUT

FIRST IF U READ GENERATION HOPE, kenji was worried hope would control new mutants like the five lights and turn evil........there was even hints of hope in second coming "Will she be the destroyer or savior of mutants" thing........i could see her turning evil but then she will blame it on "the phoenix made me do it" like cyclops blamed for when he went dark phoenix summers' trait LOL

^^did the phoenix just say hope was her child?????LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I don't understand. So you're agreeing or not? lol

Actually, this is how I'd fanfic this. I guess most of you Claremont fanatics know that he considered to reveal Rachel as a child of Phoenix and Jean rather than Scott and Jean, basically making her a sort of mutant Jesus with Jean a mutant Holy Mary allegories. Now, since Claremont never had a chance to fulfill this (even if he planed), at this point that would be too convoluted and will upset way too many fans that love and welcome her as Summers family member. But with Hope, we can pay homage to these behind the scenes ideas and actually make them true in a way. For example, let's say Hope's mother did experience a "virgin conception" (I hope my English doesn't fail me here lol) some time before M-day, because IIRC Hope was already born, chronologically, somewhere between Endangered Species and Messiah Complex, which makes her conception preceding the Decimation itself. Essentially, because time is relative to cosmic beings, that will explain away Phoenix Force's ability to predetermine such an occurrence an be ready for that before it even happens. And learning that, Hope will not only feel distanced from humanity, but from the mutants themselves knowing now she's essentially the daughter of a god/des/cosmic/entity/force/etc.

I think it's fitting because such a major in universe character ignored is just stupid.

@adamtrmm: in AvX, i think it would have been better if scott killed hope instead of xavier......then hope could be like a marytr and more like a messiah..........then she can come back from the dead later on.......the door would always be open for that

but then we had wolverine try to kill hope in AvX, yet he doesnt get any blame for that......

@hopesummersforthefuture:

That would have to be a whole different story though, but it's hard to give an excuse for a character that kills a teenager, so I'm glad it wasn't her.

Yeah, the double standards and Wolverine went hand in hand for quite a time and forced people like me to borderline hate the character.

@pyrofn: Darkchilde would make an awesome villain and a big nemesis for the New Mutants. Also it could mean big changes for Illyana and even her mindset as a character. Again I really like that idea

@hawk2916: Indeed. It wouldn’t necessarily take Illyanas edge away because she would lose a piece of herself, but we could some more humanity that Illyana always lacked.

I personally always liked the innocence X-Men Legends Illyana displayed so I figure bring something along the lines of damaged but more cheerful. Give her joy beyond

“Stabby, stabby”.

I reckon turning any X-Men into a full blown villains is actually too much. Turn them into anti-heroes, possibly anti-villains, but it would have to be a slow purposeful descent into a differing ideology. I find dissent far more intriguing than straight out villainy.

I can only really offer Havok leading the Brotherhood of Mutants, since his axis was inverted and not really changed back. Anything else is grasping straws at heroes with relatively good moral compasses, which will likely displease someone if it ever happened.

@pyrofn: sounds good to me. How would you go about separating her from the Darkchilde persona

@hawk2916: Magik. Most specifically have maybe N’Astirith or any demon lord separate her to gain an advantage, only for it to end badly since then, Darchilde has no inhibitions.

Perfect Storm, an alternate version of Storm