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    X-Men

    Team » X-Men appears in 13436 issues.

    The X-Men are a superhero team of mutants founded by Professor Charles Xavier. They are dedicated to helping fellow mutants and sworn to protect a world that fears and hates them.

    Which Wolverine replacement do you like better?

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    Invain

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    Edited By Invain

    Poll Which Wolverine replacement do you like better? (75 votes)

    Old Man Logan 61%
    X-23 37%
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    Koays

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    Old man Logan....X-23, while not as outright bad as it seemed like it was going to be, is burdened by the fact that the least interesting part of her current identity is the Wolverine persona and the legacy character vibe being on full display.

    While Old Man Logan is just a different version of Wolverine, X-23 can feel as forced as it would be for Kitty or Jubilee to dress up in the Wolverine colors and run around as Logans angels.

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    Immolation

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    Old Man Logan.

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    HAWK2916

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    There is no suitable replacement for the real Wolverine. But I guess OML is the closest. X-23 is cool but she should just be that and not taking the mantle or whatever cockamamie bs they are trying to spew to justify it

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    lxlGiftedlxl

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    None, but if I honestly had to choose one I would say Laura.

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    MiniSaladFresh

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    I don't know, I'm enjoying both but we haven't seen much of either.

    All-New Wolverine is only 2 issues in, and honestly it's pretty much just X-23 so far. I mean it makes logical sense for her to become Wolverine on account how she has the same powers as him and they're "related" but it just feels like an X-23 comic. I love Laura, but I honestly don't care if she's X-23 or Wolverine, they're pretty much exactly the same.

    Old Man Logan hasn't had much focus at all in EXM, he hasn't exactly had his time to shine yet. He's cool so far but nothing much has happened with him. He pretty much just feels like Wolverine. Maybe I missed something but I find it weird how in EXM he's saying he doesn't use the name Wolverine anymore, but at the end of the original Old Man Logan he actually says "Name's not Logan, bub. It's Wolverine" So how come he's gone back on that? Just seems weird.

    Basically, I don't know, they both seem pretty cool so far but neither really scream "Wolverine" at me.

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    Pikachunicorn

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    It's X-23 for me. It just felt so natural for her to take up the mantle, and she brings something fresh and exciting to it. I wasn't really comfortable with the costume and codename initially, but now I love it on her. As a long term Laura fan, I'm super proud to be able to call her Wolverine. It's like an ultimate honour for her or something. :)

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    beaubier

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    I don't think it feels forced to have Laura take on the Wolverine name. It feels natural, especially after the events of Death of Logan (or whatever the comic was called) that focused on her reaction to it. She has taken a lot of pride in Logan and the fact that she came from him, which is a big change from what she felt when she started out. It makes sense that she would want to honor him in her way, which is to become Wolverine.

    Not that I don't feel that this is also problematic at the same time, but maybe not for the same reasons as others in this thread. The ongoing theme for Laura's story for a good while was her trying to define who she was and learn to be her own person. It doesn't 100% sit well with me that she has ended up taking the title of the person she is a clone of, although I understand her reasons for doing it. My preference would have been her dropping the designation the Facility gave her and taking on her own name (Talon) to really symbolize her being her own woman.

    As for those saying that it feels like an X-23 comic and not Wolverine... well, yeah. Despite having the same powerset, Laura and Logan have two very different personalities (Despite what Hopeless may be writing. At least Taylor gets it). Of course Laura is going to handle things differently. Why should it feel like anything except Laura's book?

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    CaptainMarvel4Ever

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    #9  Edited By CaptainMarvel4Ever  Online

    I'm enjoying both, Old Man Logan more, even though I'm more interested in X-23's book than I am his book.

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    HAWK2916

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    @beaubier: I've been calling for them to use her original codename (Talon) for the longest. But no one seems to remember that and they just prefer to ignore it. Its like they know they don't have any good stories and have hit the wall creatively at Marvel and so the only way to generate some interest is to start the gimmick of changing characters race, gender, and sexuality and call it being diverse. Honestly I think Laura has enough fans that if they just said they were doing another X-23 book and called her Talon in that book, it would sell just as much. Marvel and their deaths really are just hilarious though. Let's kill Logan and then have a female take up the mantle, like he's Batman or something, have another version of him be time displaced or whatever and make his greatest rival and enemy inverted by some bs spell and now he's running around trying to fill that role. Seems to me it would be so much more simple just to keep the real Logan. But gimmicks and ridiculous character deaths aimed at grabbing headlines and making a solicit splash are more respected and common place these days than actual storytelling

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    Galerion

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    @hawk2916 said:

    @beaubier: I've been calling for them to use her original codename (Talon) for the longest. But no one seems to remember that and they just prefer to ignore it.

    I think the reason for that is simple though.

    That is her official logo

    No Caption Provided

    You will notice the tiny "TM" behind the numbers which means it's trademarked. That's probably the reason why Talon never went anywhere. Kyle/Yost probably planned a name change and that's why it was hinted at at the end of Target X and in the Nirmrod arc in New X-Men but that was probably shot down by the higher ups since in their eyes all the promotion of the name including that logo would have been a waste then. A bit understandable in my opinion. Of course we don't know for sure if that is the real reason but that is at least what I am thinking.

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    HAWK2916

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    @galerion: I understand all that but it still does not change the fact that her "original" codename was supposed to be Talon. So if we are not going to call her X-23 anymore, which in all honesty the X-23 would seem a bit of an insult to the character considering what it really stood for, why just ignore her original codename? Funny how the trademark and all got ignored when they decided that Wolverine would be a mantle to be passed on as a family legacy and heirloom

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    HeavenlyDarkDragon

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    Old man Logan without a doubt.

    Laura aka X-23 is trying too hard to take Wolverine place. She goes even has far as try to immitate some of his ways of handling things. It would've been more cool if she not only did things in her own terms in her own way, but also if she had adapted Logan suit to better match her feminine nature.

    Old man Logan, is Wolverine. Sure he came from a alternate future where he was used to do something terrible, but being Wolverine is has natural to him as breathing. Something we can't say about Laura.

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    Galerion

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    #14  Edited By Galerion

    @hawk2916 said:

    @galerion: I understand all that but it still does not change the fact that her "original" codename was supposed to be Talon. So if we are not going to call her X-23 anymore, which in all honesty the X-23 would seem a bit of an insult to the character considering what it really stood for, why just ignore her original codename?

    You have evidence of that? I can post two pictures of the word Talon showing up in context to X-23 and those are the only two instances of that happening in her entire history.

    In Target X it's a little bow being asked how the foot claw of a bird is called. He answers with Talon while you saw Laura earlier looking and smiling at him.

    In New X-Men Nirmrod is making it's way to the the NXM crew and scans the whole team. He identifies Laura as an unknown female and gives her the designation Talon.

    There was never anything official about this as far as I know. In every other instance including what ifs stories in the future her codename was always X-23. The only development that come from that is some people started to just call her X without the numbers.

    "Funny how the trademark and all got ignored when they decided that Wolverine would be a mantle to be passed on as a family legacy and heirloom"

    That shouldn't be surprising. After all the name Wolverine actually has marketing and recognition behind it. If you put out a book named Talon nobody will know who the heck that is besides very few people like you and me. That's just how the cookie crumbles.

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    Denam_Pavel

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    Just being in this era makes Old Man Logan less Old Man Logan and more just Wolverine again. So Laura.

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    HAWK2916

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    @galerion: I'm not looking to get into a pissing contest about a damn codename. As far as scans or issue and page numbers for "evidence", no, I don't have that, but I don't just pull stuff out of my ass and post it. It may have been in an interview or hell even a comic con when I actually got to talk to a few artist and writers.

    I agree that many people wouldn't recognize a book named Talon. But I would argue that X-23 does have name recognition. And once people knew that she was going by a new name it would sell just as much. And just because you call it Wolverine doesn't mean people will continue to buy it once they see that the "real" Wolverine is not there. The 1st thing I heard at my local comic shop was somebody telling a kid about the new Wolverine book and the kid was arguing that it wasn't Wolverine because Wolverine is not a girl.

    I mean really in all honesty it is what it is. I'm just pointing out that while some seem to want justify and be in agreement with all the little gimmicks ( and that's fine), I personally don't see it as being that great. I don't care for the mantle passing. I don't think characters whether female or minorities have to take up someone else's name and identity to be relevant. I think that's actually kind of a backhanded insult to the so called diversity and other trigger and code words that are thrown around so loosely these days when people encounter disagreement with what they want to do. But again its no biggy and I hope its not coming off as harsh. Just being honest and giving an opinion

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    beaubier

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    I'm not crazy about the mantle passing either in general tbh. In most cases it does come across as a short lived gimmick. While I do think that it makes sense for Laura's story arc, I at the same time feel a little sad for her because we all know that eventually, the status quo is going to be put back and she's going to have to give up something which clearly means a lot to her. There's no way that she is going to be Wolverine forever. It's just not going to happen. I can't really think of an instance where a character with an inherited name kept it permanently, it's always gone back to the legacy character. Look at how many times Cap's name got passed around for example.

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    Darkpesmerga10

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    @beaubier: Well to be fair i don't think Captain marvel will become Ms Marvel again. I Can't see Wolverine coming back and taking the mantle from X-23. I could just see him sticking with Logan or both being Wolverines. (Them jumping into a fight and both being like) "Don't mess with the Wolverines"

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    RabumAlal

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    Sabretooth. Wish they executed that better. AXIS and the entire Remender run sucks and is swept under the rug as a result.

    On this thread X-23. OML is stupid and his story is dead even before it began. I sense nothing but boring stuff in his future.

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    beaubier

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    @beaubier: Well to be fair i don't think Captain marvel will become Ms Marvel again. I Can't see Wolverine coming back and taking the mantle from X-23. I could just see him sticking with Logan or both being Wolverines. (Them jumping into a fight and both being like) "Don't mess with the Wolverines"

    Ms. Marvel is one of the few that I think will stick. I just don't see Laura still being Wolverine 10 years from now.

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    kcomicfan

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    Old Man Logan

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    Jok

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    Old Man Logan. Because the female hero can never fully replace the male hero. Because different problems, different environments, different emotional perception.

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    Dman1366

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    Old Man Logan.

    For the record, X23 should not be considered a replacement. She is an entirely different character with her own mantel, and should be treated as such.

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    Outside_85

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    While I am not completely on-board with Laura's reasons for taking up the Wolverine mantle, I still think she is the better of the two. I mean it's great and all she made the choice on her own accord... I just kinda feel like it's missing a sizerble part of her pre-existing desire to be something other than a killing machine aka Wolverine.

    OML... I have to say I think it was a mistake bringing him into the main universe. His story is interesting when its isolated in it's own world, but I don't see whats so good about bringing broken Logan into the main universe other than as fan service. And on top of this, the story they seem to be going for with him is a repeat of an old favorite of X-Men writers: "The future is here to stop itself from becoming real." (Because somehow the X-Men have never learned it doesn't work that way.)

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    Darkpesmerga10

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    #25  Edited By Darkpesmerga10

    @beaubier: I don't know i kinda can see it stick, not saying original wolverine won't be wolverine but i just feel that even if Logan came back or was not dead he would be happy to hand the mantle over to Laura. Even though id rather she came with her own mantle but this is fine i like it. I mean it could be like the 2 hawkeyes, People will be like "its She/Lady-Wolverine"-Pedestrian "it's....just wolverine"-Laura.

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    HAWK2916

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    Galerion

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    #27  Edited By Galerion

    @outside_85 said:

    While I am not completely on-board with Laura's reasons for taking up the Wolverine mantle, I still think she is the better of the two. I mean it's great and all she made the choice on her own accord... I just kinda feel like it's missing a sizerble part of her pre-existing desire to be something other than a killing machine aka Wolverine.

    But she isn't a killing machine. Don't know where you got that. She is anti-killing.

    No Caption Provided
    No Caption Provided
    No Caption Provided

    The book is a direct continuation of her development as a character. Remember it used to be that other people had to talk to her out of killing.

    No Caption Provided

    That exactly makes All-New Wolverine such a good book. Taylor is really playing with that here by having her be confronted with her clones who are in the exact same position she herself used to be in. This time she is the old and experienced one that knows better though showing her development and experience over the years.

    I still see a bit of misinformation being spread around by people who don't actually have read the book and are just assuming things. That's kinda sad but hey Im not here to enlighten people and it won't stop my enjoyment that I get out of it and that will thankfully continue tomorrow.

    I have to agree with Dman here though. X-23 is technically no replacement like Old Man Logan is. That guy will be gone as fast as he came as soon as 616 Logan returns. X-23 will continue to be used just like as has been the case for the past decade. She is no Ben Reilly but a long-standing character with her own story which ANW continues just to say it again. The same is actually true for all the others that have taken over for someone else like Falcon or Jane Foster for example. I mean those are even MCU characters.

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    Outside_85

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    @galerion: I know she is trying not to be... which is why it's so odd for her to take a name and mantle thats dripping with blood.

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    Galerion

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    @galerion: I know she is trying not to be... which is why it's so odd for her to take a name and mantle thats dripping with blood.

    It's also the name of a well known super hero in-universe. The guy was an Avenger after all and has saved countless lives in his life time. It's a detail that a lot of people actually seem to forget or blend out for some reason. Like Taylor said in an interview the book will be about Wolverine: the super hero and not Wolverine: the dark vigilante.

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    Outside_85

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    @galerion said:
    @outside_85 said:

    @galerion: I know she is trying not to be... which is why it's so odd for her to take a name and mantle thats dripping with blood.

    It's also the name of a well known super hero in-universe. The guy was an Avenger after all and has saved countless lives in his life time. It's a detail that a lot of people actually seem to forget or blend out for some reason. Like Taylor said in an interview the book will be about Wolverine: the super hero and not Wolverine: the dark vigilante.

    Logan wore the same suit whenever he was pulling babies out of burning buildings and carving up his weekly HYDRA platoon, it's not like Laura is unaware of this. Like you don't forget who and what Dr. Doom is just because he's spending a little time aiding the Fantastic Four.

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    Immolation

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    OML... I have to say I think it was a mistake bringing him into the main universe. His story is interesting when its isolated in it's own world, but I don't see whats so good about bringing broken Logan into the main universe other than as fan service. And on top of this, the story they seem to be going for with him is a repeat of an old favorite of X-Men writers: "The future is here to stop itself from becoming real." (Because somehow the X-Men have never learned it doesn't work that way.)

    I agree with this. Still, when you say Wolverine replacement I think he is the better one out of the choices we have, due to essentially being Wolverine. I don't think Wolverine at all when I see X-23 in Logan's costume. She should be her own charecter and I think she actually had the potential to be popular on her own without taking Wolverine's mantel.

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    Galerion

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    #32  Edited By Galerion

    @galerion said:
    @outside_85 said:

    @galerion: I know she is trying not to be... which is why it's so odd for her to take a name and mantle thats dripping with blood.

    It's also the name of a well known super hero in-universe. The guy was an Avenger after all and has saved countless lives in his life time. It's a detail that a lot of people actually seem to forget or blend out for some reason. Like Taylor said in an interview the book will be about Wolverine: the super hero and not Wolverine: the dark vigilante.

    Logan wore the same suit whenever he was pulling babies out of burning buildings and carving up his weekly HYDRA platoon, it's not like Laura is unaware of this. Like you don't forget who and what Dr. Doom is just because he's spending a little time aiding the Fantastic Four.

    And how many of that does the public know? Were there regularly news about Wolverine slaughtering HYDRA goons simply because he felt like it? Probably not. In the public eye he was simply a hero. It's important here to separate what you know as a reader and what people in the universe know. That's why the Doom comparison falls apart since in-universe he is known as the dictator of Latveria who rules with an iron hand and does as he pleases.

    Of course Laura knows how Logan was and what he did. I mean they were even on X-Force together. But she is also not in a position to judge somebody when it comes to that topic. She simply has taken an identity that a lot of people associate with hero and if the mantle is tainted with a bit blood then so what? So are her own hands and identity. It's not like she is completely innocent. At least she is actively setting an example now by not unnecessarily adding more to it and actually being a hero. That has to count for something.

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    HAWK2916

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    @galerion: I just hope that they stay true to her character. I mean at times she will have to get down and dirty and take someone out. If at all possible yeah avoid killing but if it comes down to it....

    Also please get her away from teen angel!!!

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    Jok

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    Logan killed a very, very, very bad people (criminals, rapists, maniacs). Sometimes it is necessary. This is war.

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    Invain

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    I like Logan better.

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    Outside_85

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    @jok said:

    Logan killed a very, very, very bad people (criminals, rapists, maniacs). Sometimes it is necessary. This is war.

    Also killed one or two of his friends... plus most of his kids.

    @galerion said:

    And how many of that does the public know? Were there regularly news about Wolverine slaughtering HYDRA goons simply because he felt like it? Probably not. In the public eye he was simply a hero. It's important here to separate what you know as a reader and what people in the universe know. That's why the Doom comparison falls apart since in-universe he is known as the dictator of Latveria who rules with an iron hand and does as he pleases.

    Of course Laura knows how Logan was and what he did. I mean they were even on X-Force together. But she is also not in a position to judge somebody when it comes to that topic. She simply has taken an identity that a lot of people associate with hero and if the mantle is tainted with a bit blood then so what? So are her own hands and identity. It's not like she is completely innocent. At least she is actively setting an example now by not unnecessarily adding more to it and actually being a hero. That has to count for something.

    The in-universe public ignorance regarding Logans shady side is pretty much irrelevant, they just see the suit, nothing more. Regarding Doom; do they now? I wouldn't count on it since Doom was able to launch a full scale war against Black Panther while no one thought he was doing anything at all. And on top of this, public and political ignorance about his doings appear to be vast enough that no one appears interested in trying to unseat him like they would in most other cases.

    It happens to be an identity she has been trying to escape from ever since she got away from the Facility. Bit like Einstein suddenly deciding to walk around an SS uniform.

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    Jok

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    @jok said:

    Logan killed a very, very, very bad people (criminals, rapists, maniacs). Sometimes it is necessary. This is war.

    Also killed one or two of his friends... plus most of his kids.

    Jean Grey? It was the Dark Phoenix. This was the salvation of the world.

    Kids? They were criminals.

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    Outside_85

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    @jok: I was thinking Northstar actually., plus right here in this very thread the other option is a Logan that murdered everyone at the Xavier School.

    And most of them he killed before realizing that. With Daken he let him run for as far as he could allow it, then drowned him.

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    Selina_Sublime

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    OML. He's a great twist on "our" Logan IMO.

    Daken if we are going for a legacy character.

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    Jok

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    #40  Edited By Jok
    @outside_85 said:

    @jok: I was thinking Northstar actually., plus right here in this very thread the other option is a Logan that murdered everyone at the Xavier School.

    He beat NorthStar when he was under the mental control of the Hydra. But Northstar is not really dead.

    Similarly, he had killed all the X-Men ( old man Logan). It was a hoax Mysterio.

    Daken threatened to kill Logan friends and children in school. It's like a terrorist.

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    Outside_85

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    @jok said:
    @outside_85 said:

    @jok: I was thinking Northstar actually., plus right here in this very thread the other option is a Logan that murdered everyone at the Xavier School.

    He beat NorthStar when he was under the mental control of the Hydra. But Northstar is not really dead.

    Similarly, he had killed all the X-Men ( old man Logan). It was a hoax Mysterio.

    Daken threatened to kill Logan friends and children in school. It's like a terrorist.

    Are there dead or maimed friends and family members lying at Logans feet, yes or no?

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    deactivated-57e73b68b7ed7

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    Old Man Logan. At least he seems like Wolverine.

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    deactivated-097092725

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    Old Man Logan.

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    Jota23

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    They both suck ass.

    X-23 sucks a little less when she's not playing pretend Wolverine.

    Replacements! Trash, is what they are!

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    SinisterSoul

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    Old Man Logan.

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    BURNTHEPRIEST

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    Old Man Logan, I would have preferred them to go with the black ops X-Force version of X-23.

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    RisingBean

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    Neither. I'm not reading a title where identity theft is ok. At this point I don't even read current Marvel. It's a shame, really.

    Also a man's name is his own, not some dirty cape to be passed down to the next successor.

    I wonder what code name Laura will take up when Logan comes back to reclaim his.

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    beaubier

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    Neither. I'm not reading a title where identity theft is ok. At this point I don't even read current Marvel. It's a shame, really.

    Also a man's name is his own, not some dirty cape to be passed down to the next successor.

    I wonder what code name Laura will take up when Logan comes back to reclaim his.

    Hopefully she'll move on to Talon. Going back to X-23 doesn't seem right.

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    RisingBean

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    @beaubier: Seems reasonable. Hopefully this happens sooner rather then later. I want to read Wolverine, damnit!

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    Thatlyn Yoaeg'ill'rymmin

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    Laura. And I hope she will mantain it forever.

    [and Old Man Logan go to some superheroes retirement house for ...forever...]

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