Which Avengers should join the X-Men

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knighthood

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#1  Edited By knighthood

In response to this post by @jrock72 That asked "which X-Men should join the Avengers" I'm curious which Avengers we would like to see in the X-Men.

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knighthood

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#2  Edited By knighthood

It looks we are stealing an Avenger since Firestar will be joining the X-Men ranks soon. Other Avenger mutants include Manifold, Justice, and possibly Wiccan.

My top non-mutant choice would be Machine Man (followed closely by Wonder Man).

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V_Scarlotte_Rose

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Are non-mutants allowed to join?

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jhazzroucher

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#4  Edited By jhazzroucher

Squirrel Girl

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BaBaBoom

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#5  Edited By BaBaBoom

Moon Knight, he should join while thinking he's Wolverine.

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knighthood

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#6  Edited By knighthood

Are non-mutants allowed to join?

Why not? Carol Danvers and Deathlok seems to be close to the team. Lockheed isn't mutant.

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Jonny_Anonymous

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None and same goes for the other way round

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PowerHerc

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None.

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V_Scarlotte_Rose

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@knighthood: According to the list on here, of those three, only Lockheed is officially a member.

I thought only Mutants were allowed in, but I'm not a big X-Men reader so I could be mistaken.

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tigerkaya

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None, the Avengers members and heroes from the Marvel U. shouldn't degrade themselves to working with a C-List copies of the Doom Patrol. Besides they only accepts mutants.

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MagnificentStorm

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In response to this post by @jrock72 That asked "which X-Men should join the Avengers" I'm curious which Avengers we would like to see in the X-Men.

Um none of them the Avengers should stay out of X-men stuff

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JROCK72

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Namor, Sunspot, Cannonball, and Firestar are my top ones to join the X-Men. Also Ms. Marvel, Justice, Tigra, Manifold, and Arachne are mutants so they could join.

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knighthood

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#13  Edited By knighthood

@v_scarlotte_rose:

Lists can be wrong. The following really don't seem like mutants (at least not of human origin) to me...

Cloak, Dagger, Danger, Fantomex, E.V.A, Deadpool, Hepizah, Juggernaut, Longshot, Mimic, Karima, Warbird, Warlock, Shatterstar, Broo, Doop, Moira MacTaggert

Plus, Deathlok teaches at the school.

From Carol Danver's wiki

The character began the Modern Age with a tragic turn. Carol Danvers finally escaped from Limbo only to have a fateful encounter with the female mutant known as Rogue, who stole Carol's Ms. Marvel powers as well as her memory (Avengers Annual #10). Carol's memories were restored by Professor X, but she had permanently lost the emotions connected with them. Now with no super-powers, Carol joined the Professor's X-Men as their ace pilot and intelligence operative. Her adventures with the X-Men led to her being captured by an alien race that inadvertently unlocked the full potential of her unique Kree/human genetic configuration, causing her to gain godlike power as Binary (Uncanny X-Men #164).

Mutant doesn't seem like a criteria to me.

@tigerkaya Your joke is getting tired. X-Men became popular because they have a great team, not some All-Star JSA and JLA wannabes. Teams like the Fantastic Four, X-Men, and New Teen Titans will always be better.

@jhazzroucher Good choice.

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jhazzroucher

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tigerkaya

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@knighthood: And I like all those teams just not counting the X-men. The only members they should take are mutants related to their mythos not pretend they have some place in the Marvel Universe.

But wait you want to have members from when you just said and I quote from your comment "not some All-Star JSA and JLA wannabes. Teams like the Fantastic Four, X-Men, and New Teen Titans will always be better." Why you contradicting yourself why have members from a team you could care less about on your favorite team?

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z3ro180

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Spidey would be a good fit....well Peter Parker would be a good fit I don't see SpOck playing nice with the X-men

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knighthood

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#17  Edited By knighthood

@knighthood: And I like all those teams just not counting the X-men. The only members they should take are mutants related to their mythos not pretend they have some place in the Marvel Universe.

But wait you want to have members from when you just said and I quote from your comment "not some All-Star JSA and JLA wannabes. Teams like the Fantastic Four, X-Men, and New Teen Titans will always be better." Why you contradicting yourself why have members from a team you could care less about on your favorite team?

I'm just reversing the question that was posted elsewhere. You seen my top choice was Machine Man, right? He hardly counts as an All Star. He can't carry a book. Heck the Avengers hardly even use him. Personally, I'm fine with who the X-Men are right now. In fact I could do with a few less members.

On the flip side the Avengers have been taking top some tier mutant characters. Wolverine, Storm, & Rogue?!? A similar move to the X-Men would include characters like Tony Stark, Hulk, & Black Widow. How would you feel about that?

How do you feel about the Avengers borrowing from the X-Men mythos? That means no Scarlet Witch, no Quicksilver, no Beast.

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wolverine1610

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i thought the x-men were exclusive to mutants?

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knighthood

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#19  Edited By knighthood

i thought the x-men were exclusive to mutants?

Oy vey! Yep the X-Men just hate humans, believe in segregation, and will not allow any lowly mutate on their roster.

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BaBaBoom

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@knighthood: Didn't they allow Cloak and Dagger to stay but they refused.

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MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg

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Namor, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch

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knighthood

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#22  Edited By knighthood

@bababoom said:

@knighthood: Didn't they allow Cloak and Dagger to stay but they refused.

IDK, I'm not familiar with Cloak & Dagger's time with the X-Men. They are listed as members.

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oldnightcrawler

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None, the Avengers members and heroes from the Marvel U. shouldn't degrade themselves to working with a C-List copies of the Doom Patrol. Besides they only accepts mutants.

the X-men have had non-mutant members before; Longshot, Mimic, Juggernaut, and Danger spring to mind. And Captain Marvel joined the team despite not being a mutant or even having any powers at the time.

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MakkyD

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None, either way. It is bad enough most of Marvel U has to be separated into either X men or Avengers without them switching members randomly.

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BaBaBoom

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@knighthood: thanks. : )

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I remember her being a member of the Great Lakes' Avengers then, for copyrights infringement, renamed themselves Great Lakes X-men and then later the Great Lakes Initiative. So, she is technically a member of an unofficial X-men team. lol

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#26  Edited By tigerkaya

@knighthood: thing is I don't like the Avengers taking in X-men members none of them have been useful other than to cause pointless conflict or uselessness. Like Rogue why did she join all she ever does is just b&$ch at the team, Wolverine nothing more than window dressing, Beast I'll take Hank Pym on his worst days over Beast, as to Sunspot and Cannonball nothing more than comic relief. To Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver I never considered them part of the X-men mytho's they have had a bigger impact on the Marvel U. That their origin from mutant seems minor. That's why I look forward to their onscreen debut with none of their mutant origin mentioned. I'd be okay with them being of Eternal relations really.

@oldnightcrawler: yes that is true but that's just in the X-men mytho's solely and most of them all came from the X-men mythos with exception of Carol. So whatever they did in their universe was private hardly noticeable if your an X-fan.

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wolverine1610

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#27  Edited By wolverine1610

@wolverine1610 said:

i thought the x-men were exclusive to mutants?

Oy vey! Yep the X-Men just hate humans, believe in segregation, and will not allow any lowly mutate on their roster.

lol i didnt mean it like that, i mean its kinda weird to be mutants fighting for mutant freedom and liberation if you're not a mutant right

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bigtewell

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daredevil bc dd is awesome. also i always thought him and psylocke would make a great pair.

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knighthood

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#29  Edited By knighthood

@knighthood said:

@wolverine1610 said:

i thought the x-men were exclusive to mutants?

Oy vey! Yep the X-Men just hate humans, believe in segregation, and will not allow any lowly mutate on their roster.

lol i didnt mean it like that, i mean its kinda weird to be mutants fighting for mutant freedom and liberation if you're not a mutant right

It wasn't you. I just had to lash out a bit. :) But with your recent statement, I just want to point out that the Majority tends to help the Minority somewhat. For example the NAACP was founded primarily by white people. John Brown, a white man, lost his life by essentially waging war with the US Government to end slavery. There are examples of this type of behavior everywhere. So why couldn't Spider-Man be in group that promotes an peaceful existence be human and mutants?

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wolverine1610

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lol its ok, it was kinda funny. but i never thought of it that way before. speaking of spider-man i remember in house of m where he was pretending to be a mutant because that was the big thing

@wolverine1610 said:

@knighthood said:

@wolverine1610 said:

i thought the x-men were exclusive to mutants?

Oy vey! Yep the X-Men just hate humans, believe in segregation, and will not allow any lowly mutate on their roster.

lol i didnt mean it like that, i mean its kinda weird to be mutants fighting for mutant freedom and liberation if you're not a mutant right

It wasn't you. I just had to lash out a bit. :) But with your recent statement, I just want to point out that the Majority tends to help the Minority somewhat. For example the NAACP was founded primarily by white people. John Brown, a white man, lost his life by essentially waging war with the US Government to end slavery. There are examples of this type of behavior everywhere. So why couldn't Spider-Man be in group that promotes an peaceful existence be human and mutants?

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BullPR

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Thor.

Iron Man.

Hank Pym.

Hulk.

Wasp.

And these members of the X-men should join the Avengers:

Iceman

Jean Grey

Cyclops

Beast

Angel

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dbatdog

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Definitely young Cyclops.

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gambit75

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Rouge and Havok.

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CheeseSticks

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tigerkaya

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#35  Edited By tigerkaya

Just to humor the thread the members I would pick would be Vision, Firebird and Tigra.

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knighthood

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Just to humor the thread the members I would pick would be Vision, Firebird and Tigra.

I actually forgot about Firebird. She could be an interesting fit.

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Rabbitearsblog

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It would be interesting to see Hulk, Thor and maybe Spider-Man join the X-Men, since they all have powers like the X-Men, although on a different level.

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tigerkaya

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@tigerkaya said:

Just to humor the thread the members I would pick would be Vision, Firebird and Tigra.

I actually forgot about Firebird. She could be an interesting fit.


Consider how Marvel has been going overboard with the whole religious zealots organization with no side to show the counter argument I figured Firebird would make an interesting choice plus for those that love conflict would probably get a kick out of how the students will bash her for her belief after events with such groups like The Purifiers.

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Cyclops4President

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@martianmanhunterisbetterthancy: First Namor was just part of the X-Men and was part of the Phoenix 5. After that he broke off to do his Atlntis thing. quicksilver is too much of a hothead and wouldn't fit in well on Cyclops' team taking orders from Scott and the other X-Men team is all girls sooooo, he's out. He could join as a teacher with Wolverine & the X-Men, he could be a good fit there. Scarlett Witch needs to stay as far away from the X-Men as she can as she was the reason mutants almost became extinct, caused the whole A vs. X fight, she is an outcast mutant right now and just needs to stay an Avenger. Thor is out of the question. He was part of the original Avengers, he is not a mutant, he just doesn't fit in that culture. Maybe Sunspot is the best choice. He could fit well on Cyclops'team. He is quiet, a little moody, has firepower, he would be a good fit there on Uncsnny X-Men right now.

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cloak and dagger

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John Valentine

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@bullpr said:

Thor.

Iron Man.

Hank Pym.

Hulk.

Wasp.

And these members of the X-men should join the Avengers:

Iceman

Jean Grey

Cyclops

Beast

Angel

No.

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#43  Edited By oldnightcrawler

You know who would actually make a great X-man? Spider-Man.

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wait, wait; hear me out.. I've thought of a bunch of reasons it would actually make sense:

  1. Of all of the classic characters, Spider-man probably best understands what it's like to be publicly scrutinized while trying to be a hero, often vilified by those he's trying to save. Sounds like an X-man to me.
  2. He gained his powers when he was a teenager, just like most mutants do. In some ways, it actually seems silly that he didn't join back then. This seems like it would give him a good perspective for relating to young mutants at the school, plus
  3. He's already been a teacher, so that's a thing he can do that's pretty central to what the X-men do.
  4. He's a scientist and inventor, and that's always handy to have around. He's already worked with Stark on the Avengers and Reed Richards on the FF, so it seems like it could be a natural progression for him to work with Kitty or the Beast (former teen genius team?) at a school that would have as much use for Spider-man as it would for Peter Parker.
  5. He's a moral idealist. There are lines he won't cross, and that makes him a great role model. I mean, for a guy who's a teacher, and whose central motivation is that with great power comes great responsibility, shouldn't he feel like it's his responsibility to teach those born with power?

I can think of a few other reasons I think it would be cool, like all of the great character interactions you could do by adding his perspective to the group dynamic, but those are the main ones. What do you guys think?

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knighthood

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@oldnightcrawler: I personally do not like Peter outside of NYC. So I prefer if Spidey was not an Avenger or a X-Men. I do agree with these points...


  1. Of all of the classic characters, Spider-man probably best understands what it's like to be publicly scrutinized while trying to be a hero, often vilified by those he's trying to save. Sounds like an X-man to me.
  2. He's a moral idealist. There are lines he won't cross, and that makes him a great role model. I mean, for a guy who's a teacher, and whose central motivation is that with great power comes great responsibility, shouldn't he feel like it's his responsibility to teach those
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oldnightcrawler

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@oldnightcrawler: I personally do not like Peter outside of NYC. So I prefer if Spidey was not an Avenger or a X-Men.

Yeah, see, from the perspective of someone who grew up reading Spider-man in his own book, I can totally appreciate this perspective. I really liked how accessible he was because he didn't interact regularly with the rest of the MU, you only had to learn about his corner of it.

That said, having read literally hundreds of his comics as a kid, I probably wouldn't have read a comic with him in it in the past 15 years if he hadn't joined the Avengers or the FF, because there's only so much that can be done with the character in his own little corner. For me, him joining the rest of the heroes of the MU was what he was meant to do; it's what Spider-man as an adult would do.

I feel like so often I see people being opposed to certain characters doing certain things, like what I've suggested, and not liking it based on their own ideas about which characters interact with other parts of the MU. Like people not liking Spider-man or X-men characters being on the Avengers, or Wolverine running a school. It seems like it has more to do with preconceptions of the characters that are, ultimately, based on nostalgia, and not really considering how said character(s) in that world would actually change over time.

I think it's at the root of a lot of problems with the characters, because people do want things to change, and they do want it to make sense and be organic, but they don't want to have to lose whatever they think of as the classic versions of the characters; they have these characters compartmentalized in their own minds in such a way that it makes them resistant to any genuine change in the status quo.

I mean, I was just throwing Spider-man out there as an example; I'm not really married to the idea of him being with the X-men one way or the other, my point was simply that he's one of the few Avengers that would actually make a lot of sense being on the X-men.

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tigerkaya

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#46  Edited By tigerkaya

@knighthood said:

@oldnightcrawler: I personally do not like Peter outside of NYC. So I prefer if Spidey was not an Avenger or a X-Men.

Yeah, see, from the perspective of someone who grew up reading Spider-man in his own book, I can totally appreciate this perspective. I really liked how accessible he was because he didn't interact regularly with the rest of the MU, you only had to learn about his corner of it.

That said, having read literally hundreds of his comics as a kid, I probably wouldn't have read a comic with him in it in the past 15 years if he hadn't joined the Avengers or the FF, because there's only so much that can be done with the character in his own little corner. For me, him joining the rest of the heroes of the MU was what he was meant to do; it's what Spider-man as an adult would do.

I feel like so often I see people being opposed to certain characters doing certain things, like what I've suggested, and not liking it based on their own ideas about which characters interact with other parts of the MU. Like people not liking Spider-man or X-men characters being on the Avengers, or Wolverine running a school. It seems like it has more to do with preconceptions of the characters that are, ultimately, based on nostalgia, and not really considering how said character(s) in that world would actually change over time.

I think it's at the root of a lot of problems with the characters, because people do want things to change, and they do want it to make sense and be organic, but they don't want to have to lose whatever they think of as the classic versions of the characters; they have these characters compartmentalized in their own minds in such a way that it makes them resistant to any genuine change in the status quo.

I mean, I was just throwing Spider-man out there as an example; I'm not really married to the idea of him being with the X-men one way or the other, my point was simply that he's one of the few Avengers that would actually make a lot of sense being on the X-men.

But thats what fanbase's want. We love our little corner of our characters and team just they way they are. Its why I liked the hostilities most of the heroes had with each other to keep Team Ups to a minimal. Instances like the Avengers and X-men staying hateful and at arms length from each other made it wonderful of keeping the two from ever teaming up. There by keeping the story's they had on their own without interference from the outside party. The X-men would struggle fighting Bastion and his Sentinels without aid and the Avengers would struggle fighting Kang or Ultron without the X-men for help. Both teams had their own problems and neither gave a damn or are both ignorant about the others plight. With fans if you were an Avengers fan you cared only about your team and X-fans cared about only theirs its how it goes when it comes to comics.

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kid Apollo

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#47  Edited By kid Apollo

Ms Marvel. shes got a long history with the X-men, she stayed at the Xavier school for a long period, and has been shown to care quite a bit about mutants (such as going to the funeral for the slain students after M-day).

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knighthood

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#48  Edited By knighthood

That said, having read literally hundreds of his comics as a kid, I probably wouldn't have read a comic with him in it in the past 15 years if he hadn't joined the Avengers or the FF, because there's only so much that can be done with the character in his own little corner. For me, him joining the rest of the heroes of the MU was what he was meant to do; it's what Spider-man as an adult would do.

I hear you, and I admit to being one of those weirdos that like to keep certain things static. It's funny what you said above reminded me about a thread I recently read about Molly Hayes and how she should join the X-Men. I would actually like to see her on the team, but not at the cost of breaking up the Runaways. I think that'd be unfair to their fans. So I kinda see the Avengers and X-Men the big bullies of the MU. Pulling apart and cannibalizing less successful properties. I would prefer if Marvel would develop their characters in other ways instead of trying to make everyone an Avenger or X-Man. That approach seems lazy to me.

Ms Marvel. shes got a long history with the X-men, she stayed at the Xavier school for a long period, and has been shown to care quite a bit about mutants (such as going to the funeral for the slain students after M-day).

Captain Marvel would make an excellent selection, but honestly I'd like to see her shine in her solo book first.

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THORSON

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hulk, ms marvel

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oldnightcrawler

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#50  Edited By oldnightcrawler

But thats what fanbase's want. We love our little corner of our characters and team just they way they are. Its why I liked the hostilities most of the heroes had with each other to keep Team Ups to a minimal. Instances like the Avengers and X-men staying hateful and at arms length from each other made it wonderful of keeping the two from ever teaming up. There by keeping the story's they had on their own without interference from the outside party. The X-men would struggle fighting Bastion and his Sentinels without aid and the Avengers would struggle fighting Kang or Ultron without the X-men for help. Both teams had their own problems and neither gave a damn or are both ignorant about the others plight. With fans if you were an Avengers fan you cared only about your team and X-fans cared about only theirs its how it goes when it comes to comics.

but I consider myself to be an X-men fan and an Avengers fan. Basically, I think of it as all the same thing, sort of. I certainly don't think I should have to care about one more than the other to be a fan of either.

I do agree that, most of the time, the characters work best in the contexts that they were created for; most of the best X-men stories don't involve the Avengers, most Spider-man stories don't involve the X-men, etc.. But sometimes cool stories do happen (there's some happening right now) because they exist in the same world. Yeah, bad ones happen too, but that happens either way. I do think it's generally bad when they do any crossover just for the sake of having an event to shake everything up, but that's what Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars was. And it's one of my favorite old-school Avengers stories. As was House of M, Civil War, The New Avengers, the current New Avengers, Uncanny Avengers,etc.. all of which couldn't happen without utilizing the shared universe, taking characters from different parts of the MU coming together with a common goal.

It's not as if there aren't plenty of X-men or Avengers or other Marvel books that exist in their own little corners, anyway. Most of them do, really. And those are good too, but I just can't understand the idea of keeping them all separate all the time. I mean, there wouldn't even be stuff like the Avengers (or the Defenders, etc) if they did that.

Captain Marvel would make an excellent selection, but honestly I'd like to see her shine in her solo book first.

Yeah, I think her solo book is pretty decent, but it really feels off in it's own place right now.. honestly, I think she'd be a better fit in Uncanny Avengers than being on any of the current X-men teams, though, for partially the same reason.

Like I say, there are a lot of distinct little corners of the MU that usually don't get involved with the rest of the Avengers/X-men/FF's more shared contexts; Runaways is one of my favorites, Ghost Rider, Morbius, Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E., Agents of Atlas, the Punisher, etc.. all things that I think are better not interacting with the rest of the MU so much. Heck, in most books, a lot of the appeal is in seeing the characters in their own distinct contexts. I just also like seeing characters in new contexts as well.

Take my Spider-man joining the X-men as a teacher at the school thing for example: having him do that needn't mean he wouldn't/couldn't have his own adventures away from the school in his own title as well, for people who wanted that. I mean, he could just be a background character even, teaching classes or holding down the fort when the X-men themselves were doing, y'know, X-men stuff.. but the main thing is that it gives a chance to tell both Spider-man and X-men stories that you otherwise couldn't.

Like you say, someone like Molly would lose a lot of what's cool about her if she became just another student at the school, she would be less special somehow. Same for X-23, or Layla Miller (or actually most of X-factor); they just belong too much to their own mythology. But Spider-man? he's always gonna have his own thing going on, else where anyway. It's not like it would be permanent, he'd be there for a while, be part of some stories, and eventually be doing something else. Spider-man can do that, he can be all over the MU and still be Spider-man; I just think if they can do something different with a character, especially if it makes sense, they should.

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