I think reading Wolverine and the X-Men has made me like AvX a bit more. Seeing Rachel and Iceman and Angel realize that the side of the mutants might not be the right side to fight on in this war was nice to see.

It's been stated in interviews that scott was going down a darker path so being a villain will be part of that.

If anything I'm just not liking the characters in this event getting soiled just so he can come out of this looking pretty, considering he's done questionable things that challenges ones morals and ethics and I for one haven't fully agreed with.

In the previews in AvX 11 I hope cyke does kill off Xavier.

Edit: Let's just ignore the fact that ever since the P5 came into existence, none of the members have shown and or made any effort to get rid of the Force and give it to Hope prior the avengers assault, and lets forget that the PF amplifies one's Ego/Emotions and displays the truth of oneself.

I still don't understand how Scott is being seen as a villain. He hasn't done anything "evil" at all. When Hope called him a monster and said that he was destroying innocent lives I just didn't understand it, what innocent lives has he destroyed? The only people he has attacked is the Avengers AFTER they invaded Utopia and Hope left with the Scarlet Witch. I'm sorry but Scott has every right to be upset if while he's changing the world for the better the Avengers attack his home and Hope, the messiah that Cyclops has spent all this time trying to protect leaves with Wanda, the woman who put the mutant race on the brink of extinction. Worst of all Cap tried to blame Scott for the attack on Wakanda.

Namor being seen as a villain I can understand seeing as he destroyed a city but let's think about why he did it. First of all even if he wasn't a host I wouldn't have put it past him to do this anyway he hasn't got a good record. Secondly he was angry with the Avengers for attacking Utopia and third, he is a host of the phoenix which is corrupting him. Why is he a host again? Oh right the Avengers turned him into one. Good job Tony.

Emma has definitely been corrupted also so I can see why she's being seen as a villain. Forcing her own people to kneel and changing their thought gave it away. She did tell Namor about Wakanda but I don't see it as being her fault that Namor lost it he was the one IMO that was most likely to lose it.

Piotr and Magik weren't exactly all that evil. Sure Magik brought a demon prison to earth but other than that what else did she do. Her corruption needs to be explored a bit more it seemed to have occured off-panel. Piotr lost his temper at the school but was that really the phoenix? After all he still is the juggernaut so he already had a short temper. But he still wasn't a "Villain" as he stopped himself before causing any serious harm and even when fighting Spider-man he refused to kill and urged Spider-man to stay down.

I wouldn't mind if Scott had actually killed some one and the said he was being corrupted but so far he hasn't. Even Magneto is saying that Scott has been corrupted. WTF!? Where did he get that from? Just because Emma lost it doesn't mean that Cyke has. From the beginning he has said no killing and ordered that Hawkeye be healed after Emma burned him. They all keep acting as if Cyclops is the most corrupt of all and has been planning all their actions even though he shouldn't be held responsible for the actions of the others. If that were the way it works then Cap should take the blame for Wandas actions.

The Avengers were the only ones who had a problem with the P5 when they first gained the power and even now it's only the Avengers that have a problem. No other country has a problem with them even Reed Richards didn't want to stop Cyclops. If the Avengers just stayed out of the way from the beginning there never would have been a problem.

@x_29 said:

@One_Eye said:

@AgeofHurricane: @x_29: Hey, no worries guys because given the track record that Marvel has for disregarding canon for the convience sake;I'm sure that the ramifications of this event will be forgotten in the next two years. Oh, he!!, who am I'm kidding? Make it six months when the NEXT Marvel event begins!

Avengers vs X-men 2: Electric Boogaloo

or

Avengers vs Applebees.

hahahahahahaha thats funny Avengers vs X-Men 2: Electric Boogaloo

@Osian2 said:

I still don't understand how Scott is being seen as a villain. He hasn't done anything "evil" at all. When Hope called him a monster and said that he was destroying innocent lives I just didn't understand it, what innocent lives has he destroyed? The only people he has attacked is the Avengers AFTER they invaded Utopia and Hope left with the Scarlet Witch. I'm sorry but Scott has every right to be upset if while he's changing the world for the better the Avengers attack his home and Hope, the messiah that Cyclops has spent all this time trying to protect leaves with Wanda, the woman who put the mutant race on the brink of extinction. Worst of all Cap tried to blame Scott for the attack on Wakanda.

Namor being seen as a villain I can understand seeing as he destroyed a city but let's think about why he did it. First of all even if he wasn't a host I wouldn't have put it past him to do this anyway he hasn't got a good record. Secondly he was angry with the Avengers for attacking Utopia and third, he is a host of the phoenix which is corrupting him. Why is he a host again? Oh right the Avengers turned him into one. Good job Tony.

Emma has definitely been corrupted also so I can see why she's being seen as a villain. Forcing her own people to kneel and changing their thought gave it away. She did tell Namor about Wakanda but I don't see it as being her fault that Namor lost it he was the one IMO that was most likely to lose it.

Piotr and Magik weren't exactly all that evil. Sure Magik brought a demon prison to earth but other than that what else did she do. Her corruption needs to be explored a bit more it seemed to have occured off-panel. Piotr lost his temper at the school but was that really the phoenix? After all he still is the juggernaut so he already had a short temper. But he still wasn't a "Villain" as he stopped himself before causing any serious harm and even when fighting Spider-man he refused to kill and urged Spider-man to stay down.

I wouldn't mind if Scott had actually killed some one and the said he was being corrupted but so far he hasn't. Even Magneto is saying that Scott has been corrupted. WTF!? Where did he get that from? Just because Emma lost it doesn't mean that Cyke has. From the beginning he has said no killing and ordered that Hawkeye be healed after Emma burned him. They all keep acting as if Cyclops is the most corrupt of all and has been planning all their actions even though he shouldn't be held responsible for the actions of the others. If that were the way it works then Cap should take the blame for Wandas actions.

The Avengers were the only ones who had a problem with the P5 when they first gained the power and even now it's only the Avengers that have a problem. No other country has a problem with them even Reed Richards didn't want to stop Cyclops. If the Avengers just stayed out of the way from the beginning there never would have been a problem.

i wholeheartedly agree with this statement.

@photowill404: Thx I still can't wait to see what he's planning to do with Hope, after all he doesn't want to kill her and before the "chaos punch" AKA "BS punch" he wasn't afraid of her power so it's not like he was worried about the Avengers using her against him. IMO he still needs her to restore the mutant race.

I can't wait to see Cables reaction to all of this. Cyclops didn't want to use the phoenix, he was even concerned about it but he did it for Cable. If he dies at the end of the event I can't see Cable being too happy especially if it's Hope that kills him. She's not just going against Scott (the man who wants to make the world a better place) but she's also going against Cable (her father who spent her entire life protecting her) and to top it off she IS siding with the Scarlet Witch!

@Hareil0079: Other characters being soiled so Cyke comes out looking pretty? Really? Emma, Namor and Illyana are all much more likely to have become corrupt. Even Colossus is more prone to corruption seeing as he is already being influenced by Cyttorak. Even with Cyclops having done nothing necessarily evil so far he is still the one that is getting the most blame. Cap blaming him for Wakanda, Storm and Gambit saying he was corrupt when they saw the actions of Piotr and Illyana and lately Magneto saying that Emma AND Scott were being corrupted even though it was Emma that made him kneel. Rest assured Scott won't be coming out of this event looking pretty and unless he does something in issues 11 & 12 it will be undeserved.

In regards to not trying to give the force to Hope, we know they had some sort of plan involving her (issue 5) but just because they didn't give the force to her straight away doesn't mean they weren't going to. He still might give her the force after all he has been trying to find her all this time. Once he knew where Hope she was his primary goal and he didn't want to bother with the Avengers.

FTR cap didn't blame namor for wakanda, cap only claimed his view was right, big difference.

Plan in AvX 5 was to get hope and keep her away from the avengers.

Hope had her own agenda and in the end wanted logan to kill her simply cause he was her fail safe.

AvX 6 Cyke denied hope the PF, taunted her with it, claimed "Utopia is not a prison and she can go at any time" Avengers come and denys her even after the fact Hope pointed out what cyke stated earlier. In 5 they mention they would prepare hope, all we get in 6 is Emma sipping on some wine, Cyke lounging around and Hope combing teons hair, yea some preparing. given the panels Cyke no longer had any intentions of training and even preparing her and hopes role in the X-men became moot.

In AvX 1 Emma pointed out it was Hopes choice on 2 occasions he denied them. FF to 5 and he was willing to force the PF on her after the fact She begged logan to go through with their promise

With 2 issues left and AvX 11 previews all over the web showing Emma and Scott battling, dont be dense about it.. If anything Hope would get it after she beats it out of someone. Either Scott or Emma.

And yea the searching for Hope was REALLY important, most tie-ins been the hunting and torturing of Avengers. The only other scene we seen other 10 is in the WaTXM Tie - In and he didn't even make time to talk to Bobby and cared about was fixing

Edit: Unless you point out what scotts truly done wrong, I'm failing to see it. I for one don't want cyke coming out of this clean but given whats been shown I don't see much of a down side thus far other than the bogus comments he's made on the avengers in Act 1 and messing with the "Free Will/Ethics and morals

@Hareil0079 said:

FTR cap didn't blame namor for wakanda, cap only claimed his view was right, big difference.

Plan in AvX 5 was to get hope and keep her away from the avengers.

Hope had her own agenda and in the end wanted logan to kill her simply cause he was her fail safe.

AvX 6 Cyke denied hope the PF, taunted her with it, claimed "Utopia is not a prison and she can go at any time" Avengers come and denys her even after the fact Hope pointed out what cyke stated earlier. In 5 they mention they would prepare hope, all we get in 6 is Emma sipping on some wine, Cyke lounging around and Hope combing teons hair, yea some preparing. given the panels Cyke no longer had any intentions of training and even preparing her and hopes role in the X-men became moot.

In AvX 1 Emma pointed out it was Hopes choice on 2 occasions he denied them. FF to 5 and he was willing to force the PF on her after the fact She begged logan to go through with their promise

With 2 issues left and AvX 11 previews all over the web showing Emma and Scott battling, dont be dense about it.. If anything Hope would get it after she beats it out of someone. Either Scott or Emma.

And yea the searching for Hope was REALLY important, most tie-ins been the hunting and torturing of Avengers. The only other scene we seen other 10 is in the WaTXM Tie - In and he didn't even make time to talk to Bobby and cared about was fixing

Edit: Unless you point out what scotts truly done wrong, I'm failing to see it. I for one don't want cyke coming out of this clean but given whats been shown I don't see much of a down side thus far other than the bogus comments he's made on the avengers in Act 1 and messing with the "Free Will/Ethics and morals

He said "Scott Summers has revealed himself". So yeah he did blame Scott even though he knew that it was Namor attacking and he acted alone. What else could he have meant?

The P5 said that they were going to "prepare" her so they obviously had something else in mind unless you believe they were going to prepare her for imprisonment or something. Again just because they didn't do it straight away doesn't mean they weren't going to do it. Maybe she needed more time to recover, maybe Cyke was punishing her for her earlier actions who knows?

There's a bit of a difference between "leaving Utopia" and "leaving Utopia with the Scarlet Witch so the Avengers can find a way to defeat or even possibly kill the P5". It's pretty understandable why Scott didn't want Hope to go with them.

Scott didn't want Logan to kill Hope, a teenage girl, the mutant messiah, daughter of Cable even after promising Cable he'd make sure she'd become the host to prevent a terrible future? What a prick.

The Avengers had Hope. How else were they supposed to find her? For all we know they were interrogated about her location. They weren't spending their time "torturing" the Avengers Illyana threw them in a prison and then left, the demons there were torturing them. Illyana wasn't there poking them with a stick or anything. In Legacy when Illyana wasn't searching for the Avengers she was continuing to help the planet.

So you yourself don't see anything wrong with Scotts actions but you still want him to be brought down? Ok then...

He won't come out clean because he's already being blamed for everything. Cap blamed him for Wakanda as did Prof X, the other x-men i.e. Storm, Iceman and Magneto have all said that Cyclops has been corrupted, Iron Fist compared him to Mussolini, Hawkeye believed that Scott was going to kill Hope (If he wanted to do that he could have shut off her mind the moment he arrived) and Hope herself accused him of being a monster and destroying innocent lives. The only way he would come out clean is if everyone said "you know what? He wasn't that bad," Go read a couple of reviews of the issue and you'll find that most are saying that Cyke ha become a tyrant and corrupt.

@Osian2 said:

He said "Scott Summers has revealed himself". So yeah he did blame Scott even though he knew that it was Namor attacking and he acted alone. What else could he have meant?

He's refferring to the the "No More Avengers" not about blaming scott.

The P5 said that they were going to "prepare" her so they obviously had something else in mind unless you believe they were going to prepare her for imprisonment or something. Again just because they didn't do it straight away doesn't mean they weren't going to do it. Maybe she needed more time to recover, maybe Cyke was punishing her for her earlier actions who knows?

Great way to omitt and not acknowledge the panels in AvX 6

There's a bit of a difference between "leaving Utopia" and "leaving Utopia with the Scarlet Witch so the Avengers can find a way to defeat or even possibly kill the P5". It's pretty understandable why Scott didn't want Hope to go with them.

It was about "leaving" Hope had no Idea about what the avengers had in store for her. And leaving with the Scarlett Witch who's aiding the avengers, Do the math, She left with the avengers and throughout this event from the time she's left has been with them.

Scott didn't want Logan to kill Hope, a teenage girl, the mutant messiah, daughter of Cable even after promising Cable he'd make sure she'd become the host to prevent a terrible future? What a prick.

It wasn't about cables promise at that point, as cyke preceding statements were about Avengers wanting to snuff us out. stopping logan from following through with hopes request was part of his initial idea of getting the PF for his people and "rebirth" Thats been the essence of Scotts thinking from the beginning of this event, Act 2 he denied Hope the PF then called outlawed the Avengers, (not to forget to mention He provided unlimited Food, Energy, and Water, and outlaw war... the outlaw of war is my problem simply because he forced a world peace) and that became his focus now Act 3 he now suddenly cares about his race when in Act when given the opportunity he chose not to, heavily reminded me of CC where given the opportunity after wanda had repowered rictor, and was willing to repower the rest of the mutant community what did Scott do? Oh yes, shoot the offer down but bet it on a Cosmic Turkey... fantastic logic.

The Avengers had Hope. How else were they supposed to find her? For all we know they were interrogated about her location. They weren't spending their time "torturing" the Avengers Illyana threw them in a prison and then left, the demons there were torturing them. Illyana wasn't there poking them with a stick or anything. In Legacy when Illyana wasn't searching for the Avengers she was continuing to help the planet.

That made no sense what so ever. And since Illyana rules limbo last I checked, unless that change please let me know her command is whats going to happen, which is shown in AvX 9 and XML Tie-Ins and Illyana right there present for all of this, please dont be obtuse about that scene it was straight forward as one can get and was stated in interviews. And scenes we see Illyana in Tie-ins she's hunting avengers (WaTXM comes to mind when bobby and her subdue the Thing and in AvX 9 when her and her brother take down THor)

So you yourself don't see anything wrong with Scotts actions but you still want him to be brought down? Ok then...

He won't come out clean because he's already being blamed for everything. Cap blamed him for Wakanda as did Prof X, the other x-men i.e. Storm, Iceman and Magneto have all said that Cyclops has been corrupted, Iron Fist compared him to Mussolini, Hawkeye believed that Scott was going to kill Hope (If he wanted to do that he could have shut off her mind the moment he arrived) and Hope herself accused him of being a monster and destroying innocent lives. The only way he would come out clean is if everyone said "you know what? He wasn't that bad," Go read a couple of reviews of the issue and you'll find that most are saying that Cyke ha become a tyrant and corrupt.

None of them has stated Cyke is corrupted, Bobby was sorry and felt he was on the wrong side, Storm was upset cause what the P5 were doing she was unaware and was mad at herself for being fooled and letting it get as far as it did, Magneto had got pwnd by Emma and feels the worse has happen. IF comment to cyke made little sense, Hope called him a monster after he took down a baby dragon. You said lives he's destroyed? what lives so far? I'd argue all he's really done is ignore emma especially in 9 when he ignored her request for help and in UXM Tie-In beginning of the Sinister Arc where the their PR rep states on the P5 being able to broadcast telepathically making her feel her job is irrelevant.

YOu should take your own advise on the reviews and actually read them and some commentary from the writers themselves and read some interviews.

@Hareil0079 said:

@Osian2 said:

He said "Scott Summers has revealed himself". So yeah he did blame Scott even though he knew that it was Namor attacking and he acted alone. What else could he have meant?

He's refferring to the the "No More Avengers" not about blaming scott.

The P5 said that they were going to "prepare" her so they obviously had something else in mind unless you believe they were going to prepare her for imprisonment or something. Again just because they didn't do it straight away doesn't mean they weren't going to do it. Maybe she needed more time to recover, maybe Cyke was punishing her for her earlier actions who knows?

Great way to omitt and not acknowledge the panels in AvX 6

There's a bit of a difference between "leaving Utopia" and "leaving Utopia with the Scarlet Witch so the Avengers can find a way to defeat or even possibly kill the P5". It's pretty understandable why Scott didn't want Hope to go with them.

It was about "leaving" Hope had no Idea about what the avengers had in store for her. And leaving with the Scarlett Witch who's aiding the avengers, Do the math, She left with the avengers and throughout this event from the time she's left has been with them.

Scott didn't want Logan to kill Hope, a teenage girl, the mutant messiah, daughter of Cable even after promising Cable he'd make sure she'd become the host to prevent a terrible future? What a prick.

It wasn't about cables promise at that point, as cyke preceding statements were about Avengers wanting to snuff us out. stopping logan from following through with hopes request was part of his initial idea of getting the PF for his people and "rebirth" Thats been the essence of Scotts thinking from the beginning of this event, Act 2 he denied Hope the PF then called outlawed the Avengers, (not to forget to mention He provided unlimited Food, Energy, and Water, and outlaw war... the outlaw of war is my problem simply because he forced a world peace) and that became his focus now Act 3 he now suddenly cares about his race when in Act when given the opportunity he chose not to, heavily reminded me of CC where given the opportunity after wanda had repowered rictor, and was willing to repower the rest of the mutant community what did Scott do? Oh yes, shoot the offer down but bet it on a Cosmic Turkey... fantastic logic.

The Avengers had Hope. How else were they supposed to find her? For all we know they were interrogated about her location. They weren't spending their time "torturing" the Avengers Illyana threw them in a prison and then left, the demons there were torturing them. Illyana wasn't there poking them with a stick or anything. In Legacy when Illyana wasn't searching for the Avengers she was continuing to help the planet.

That made no sense what so ever. And since Illyana rules limbo last I checked, unless that change please let me know her command is whats going to happen, which is shown in AvX 9 and XML Tie-Ins and Illyana right there present for all of this, please dont be obtuse about that scene it was straight forward as one can get and was stated in interviews. And scenes we see Illyana in Tie-ins she's hunting avengers (WaTXM comes to mind when bobby and her subdue the Thing and in AvX 9 when her and her brother take down THor)

So you yourself don't see anything wrong with Scotts actions but you still want him to be brought down? Ok then...

He won't come out clean because he's already being blamed for everything. Cap blamed him for Wakanda as did Prof X, the other x-men i.e. Storm, Iceman and Magneto have all said that Cyclops has been corrupted, Iron Fist compared him to Mussolini, Hawkeye believed that Scott was going to kill Hope (If he wanted to do that he could have shut off her mind the moment he arrived) and Hope herself accused him of being a monster and destroying innocent lives. The only way he would come out clean is if everyone said "you know what? He wasn't that bad," Go read a couple of reviews of the issue and you'll find that most are saying that Cyke ha become a tyrant and corrupt.

None of them has stated Cyke is corrupted, Bobby was sorry and felt he was on the wrong side, Storm was upset cause what the P5 were doing she was unaware and was mad at herself for being fooled and letting it get as far as it did, Magneto had got pwnd by Emma and feels the worse has happen. IF comment to cyke made little sense, Hope called him a monster after he took down a baby dragon. You said lives he's destroyed? what lives so far? I'd argue all he's really done is ignore emma especially in 9 when he ignored her request for help and in UXM Tie-In beginning of the Sinister Arc where the their PR rep states on the P5 being able to broadcast telepathically making her feel her job is irrelevant.

YOu should take your own advise on the reviews and actually read them and some commentary from the writers themselves and read some interviews.

He wasn't refering to the "No More Avengers" as they had at least four battles in between then and Wakanda. He was blaming Scott how can't you see that?

I didn't omitt the panels in AVX 6 hence why I said "maybe Scott was punishing her for her earlier actions" and that's why he didn't give her the force and taunted her.

REALLY? Hope had no idea what the Avengers wanted with her? You can't seriously believe that. Also no it wasn't just about leaving otherwise she would have left before then but no she stayed on Utopia with her friends.

The whole reason he was willing to trust the phoenix is because of the promise to Cable so it was always a part of his reasoning. The rebirth of the Mutant race was the primary reason but she is still Cables daughter that he promised to protect. He had every reason to stop Logan. How can outlawing war be a problem? Do you have something against world peace?

Im saying that after Illyana threw the Avengers into the prison she herself didn't stick around to torture them she went off to either hunt some more or continue to fix the world.

"None of them has stated Cyke is corrupted" Uh yes they did it's a fact. Storm along with Gambit said that all the P5 had been corrupted. Magneto himself said that Emma and Scott were bein corrupted on the last page of issue 10. I didn't say that he was destroying lives, I said that Hope said he was destroying lives.

I told you to read some reviews and you'd see that a lot of them also say that Scott has lost it. Showing that a lot of readers see him as being corrupt.

@Osian2 Yea, you pretty much Omitted everything and 6 and prior, not to mention hope reasoning.

Yea I'm done.

@Hareil0079 said:

@Osian2 Yea, you pretty much Omitted everything and 6 and prior, not to mention hope reasoning.

Yea I'm done.

I didn't ignore issue 6 and earlier, re-read my post and you'll see I referenced them. I gave a possible reason why Scott refused to give Hope the power in issue 6 and why he didn't want Logan to kill her in issue 5.

Also Hopes reasoning was just stupid. First she's confident that she can handle the phoenix and that she doesn't need to be trained, then on the moon she says that she was wrong and couldn't handle it. Fast forward to Utopia 2 weeks later when Cyclops asks her if she would accept the power if he offered it she said yes. Then she leaves with the Avengers to do some training. She contradicts herself every 5 minutes! First she's ready and wants the power then she's not ready and doesn't want the power then she wants the power and finally she decides she isn't ready and goes to do some training to apparantly destroy the phoenix. Does she even want the power at this point or just want to destroy it?

@Osian2 said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@Osian2 Yea, you pretty much Omitted everything and 6 and prior, not to mention hope reasoning.

Yea I'm done.

I didn't ignore issue 6 and earlier, re-read my post and you'll see I referenced them. I gave a possible reason why Scott refused to give Hope the power in issue 6 and why he didn't want Logan to kill her in issue 5.

Also Hopes reasoning was just stupid. First she's confident that she can handle the phoenix and that she doesn't need to be trained, then on the moon she says that she was wrong and couldn't handle it. Fast forward to Utopia 2 weeks later when Cyclops asks her if she would accept the power if he offered it she said yes. Then she leaves with the Avengers to do some training. She contradicts herself every 5 minutes! First she's ready and wants the power then she's not ready and doesn't want the power then she wants the power and finally she decides she isn't ready and goes to do some training to apparantly destroy the phoenix. Does she even want the power at this point or just want to destroy it?

I am SO glad that I'm not the only noticing how Hope has see-sawed on her decisions through out this event constantly! It's mind-numbing to the point where I don't even care about this infernal event and nor what happens afterward! I want to post my opinions on these forums and the sort but it feels so draining given all the inconsistent writing and characterization. He!!, I had a conversation with a Spider-Man fan yesterday and even he admits that issue nine of AvX was B.S. However, I'm glad to see that there are some fans who aren't eating this crap up.

@Osian2 said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@Osian2 Yea, you pretty much Omitted everything and 6 and prior, not to mention hope reasoning.

Yea I'm done.

I didn't ignore issue 6 and earlier, re-read my post and you'll see I referenced them. I gave a possible reason why Scott refused to give Hope the power in issue 6 and why he didn't want Logan to kill her in issue 5.

Also Hopes reasoning was just stupid. First she's confident that she can handle the phoenix and that she doesn't need to be trained, then on the moon she says that she was wrong and couldn't handle it. Fast forward to Utopia 2 weeks later when Cyclops asks her if she would accept the power if he offered it she said yes. Then she leaves with the Avengers to do some training. She contradicts herself every 5 minutes! First she's ready and wants the power then she's not ready and doesn't want the power then she wants the power and finally she decides she isn't ready and goes to do some training to apparantly destroy the phoenix. Does she even want the power at this point or just want to destroy it?

She doesn't say anything, other than the fact that she mentions the PF still is calling her.

Cyke taunts her with it by calling her a child and saying what she would do.

Go re-read it again it's in writing, and you can't change it

Again your omitting what happen.

I'm done.

@xtremexfan: Cyclops has been the one character that I have liked throughout AVX.

-- I don't like Magik in general (Sorry Magik fans)

-- Colossus just hasn't been written well (surprise, surprise -- honestly Magik and Colossus lose the Phoenix force and we don't even see it... you have an amazing character possessed by two forces (Cytorrak and Phoenix and there is no further story on it -- give Colossus his due)

-- Namor and Emma are acting like Namor and Emma

but Scott... Scott's been written well. He does believe he's doing the right thing. The Phoenix Force is twisting its way into Scott's rhetoric and thinking. And Scott has a lot of emotions he's bringing to the table. The Second Coming, the Schism, his relationship with Hope, the survival of mutants. I think Scott's tragedy (which is what this event is coming to) has been written well.

But I agree with the initial post, I wish Scott's tragedy would be more X-centric. We've seen from plenty of Avengers, but barely see the full spectrum of mutants.

@Hareil0079 said:

@Osian2 said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@Osian2 Yea, you pretty much Omitted everything and 6 and prior, not to mention hope reasoning.

Yea I'm done.

I didn't ignore issue 6 and earlier, re-read my post and you'll see I referenced them. I gave a possible reason why Scott refused to give Hope the power in issue 6 and why he didn't want Logan to kill her in issue 5.

Also Hopes reasoning was just stupid. First she's confident that she can handle the phoenix and that she doesn't need to be trained, then on the moon she says that she was wrong and couldn't handle it. Fast forward to Utopia 2 weeks later when Cyclops asks her if she would accept the power if he offered it she said yes. Then she leaves with the Avengers to do some training. She contradicts herself every 5 minutes! First she's ready and wants the power then she's not ready and doesn't want the power then she wants the power and finally she decides she isn't ready and goes to do some training to apparantly destroy the phoenix. Does she even want the power at this point or just want to destroy it?

She doesn't say anything, other than the fact that she mentions the PF still is calling her.

Cyke taunts her with it by calling her a child and saying what she would do.

Go re-read it again it's in writing, and you can't change it

Again your omitting what happen.

I'm done.

Are you just lying for the sake of lying now? First you said that Magneto didn't say that Scott was losing it even though he clearly did at the end of AVX #10 his exact words were "Scott and Emma...They're losing control" and now you're trying to say that Hope didn't say she wanted the power when she clearly did. The conversation literally went like this:

Scott: Yes and if I offered it now...would you take it?

Hope: I...I..yes.

Those were the exact words from the comic that even showed Hope reaching out her hand. Like you said it's in writing I can't change it so why don't YOU try re-reading it?

@One_Eye: I didn't mind that Spider-man was able to stall them (though I don't understand why BOTH Illyana and piotr stayed) the thing that annoyed me was how he got them to turn on each other as if they were some idiotic cartoon villains

@One_Eye said:

@AgeofHurricane: @x_29: Hey, no worries guys because given the track record that Marvel has for disregarding canon for the convience sake;I'm sure that the ramifications of this event will be forgotten in the next two years. Oh, he!!, who am I'm kidding? Make it six months when the NEXT Marvel event begins!

I'm having fun actually thinking of what the next Marvel event that Will Change Everything Forever will be. My money is on Dr. Doom being the hero and the X-Men being shown as villains because they stopped him from committing genocide. The X-Men will save Captain America's life, but the Avengers arrest them anyway since their government ordered it and considers Dr. Doom to be a new ally. At the end will be a twist, like Franklin restarting this version of the universe in a new pocket dimension only to have the whole crossover get retconned when it's revealed that it was a dream sequence that Broo had after eating some turkey late at night.

@One_Eye said:

@Osian2 said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@Osian2 Yea, you pretty much Omitted everything and 6 and prior, not to mention hope reasoning.

Yea I'm done.

I didn't ignore issue 6 and earlier, re-read my post and you'll see I referenced them. I gave a possible reason why Scott refused to give Hope the power in issue 6 and why he didn't want Logan to kill her in issue 5.

Also Hopes reasoning was just stupid. First she's confident that she can handle the phoenix and that she doesn't need to be trained, then on the moon she says that she was wrong and couldn't handle it. Fast forward to Utopia 2 weeks later when Cyclops asks her if she would accept the power if he offered it she said yes. Then she leaves with the Avengers to do some training. She contradicts herself every 5 minutes! First she's ready and wants the power then she's not ready and doesn't want the power then she wants the power and finally she decides she isn't ready and goes to do some training to apparantly destroy the phoenix. Does she even want the power at this point or just want to destroy it?

I am SO glad that I'm not the only noticing how Hope has see-sawed on her decisions through out this event constantly! It's mind-numbing to the point where I don't even care about this infernal event and nor what happens afterward! I want to post my opinions on these forums and the sort but it feels so draining given all the inconsistent writing and characterization. He!!, I had a conversation with a Spider-Man fan yesterday and even he admits that issue nine of AvX was B.S. However, I'm glad to see that there are some fans who aren't eating this crap up.

Also, I'm still not entirely sure what sort of training the Avengers would provide and how it is superior to what the X-Men would offer. The only panel I saw that even referenced what she was learning from them was some random training offered by Spiderman where she was balanced on the top of a pagoda (this was the same issue where Magik and Colossus defeated Thor). Shouldn't her training consist of, I don't know, workshops and routines that would increase her ability to control the type of power the PF grants while keeping her personality? Wouldn't this type of training best be learned from Rachel Summers, who controlled a fragment of the PF for years, versus the Avengers?

@Osian2 said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@Osian2 said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@Osian2 Yea, you pretty much Omitted everything and 6 and prior, not to mention hope reasoning.

Yea I'm done.

I didn't ignore issue 6 and earlier, re-read my post and you'll see I referenced them. I gave a possible reason why Scott refused to give Hope the power in issue 6 and why he didn't want Logan to kill her in issue 5.

Also Hopes reasoning was just stupid. First she's confident that she can handle the phoenix and that she doesn't need to be trained, then on the moon she says that she was wrong and couldn't handle it. Fast forward to Utopia 2 weeks later when Cyclops asks her if she would accept the power if he offered it she said yes. Then she leaves with the Avengers to do some training. She contradicts herself every 5 minutes! First she's ready and wants the power then she's not ready and doesn't want the power then she wants the power and finally she decides she isn't ready and goes to do some training to apparantly destroy the phoenix. Does she even want the power at this point or just want to destroy it?

She doesn't say anything, other than the fact that she mentions the PF still is calling her.

Cyke taunts her with it by calling her a child and saying what she would do.

Go re-read it again it's in writing, and you can't change it

Again your omitting what happen.

I'm done.

Are you just lying for the sake of lying now? First you said that Magneto didn't say that Scott was losing it even though he clearly did at the end of AVX #10 his exact words were "Scott and Emma...They're losing control" and now you're trying to say that Hope didn't say she wanted the power when she clearly did. The conversation literally went like this:

Scott: Yes and if I offered it now...would you take it?

Hope: I...I..yes.

Those were the exact words from the comic that even showed Hope reaching out her hand. Like you said it's in writing I can't change it so why don't YOU try re-reading it?

@One_Eye: I didn't mind that Spider-man was able to stall them (though I don't understand why BOTH Illyana and piotr stayed) the thing that annoyed me was how he got them to turn on each other as if they were some idiotic cartoon villains

Did he get them to turn on each other? I am not buying the series, but do get updates and have flipped through friends' issues, and it seemed like they were implying that Spiderman bluffed Piotr or Magik into using their power in such a way that it backfired - wasn't it Piotr's punch that set off the volcano?

Sigh, the drawbacks of not buying issues of a series you can't be bothered with means I am obviously missing out on comedy gold.

@PhoenixoftheTides: Piotr and Illyana started to argue about whether to kill spider-man (piotr didn't want to) then Spider-man reminded them that if one of them fell their power would go to the other. The next panel showed the phoenix force exploding out of the volcano and Spider-man telling the avengers that they took each other out.

The "architects" of marvel said that each member of the five were chosen for a reason but all we got from Colossus and Magik is an off panel double knockout.

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

@One_Eye said:

@AgeofHurricane: @x_29: Hey, no worries guys because given the track record that Marvel has for disregarding canon for the convience sake;I'm sure that the ramifications of this event will be forgotten in the next two years. Oh, he!!, who am I'm kidding? Make it six months when the NEXT Marvel event begins!

I'm having fun actually thinking of what the next Marvel event that Will Change Everything Forever will be. My money is on Dr. Doom being the hero and the X-Men being shown as villains because they stopped him from committing genocide. The X-Men will save Captain America's life, but the Avengers arrest them anyway since their government ordered it and considers Dr. Doom to be a new ally. At the end will be a twist, like Franklin restarting this version of the universe in a new pocket dimension only to have the whole crossover get retconned when it's revealed that it was a dream sequence that Broo had after eating some turkey late at night.

That sounds much freaking better. Especially if its treated as a comedy.

I didnt like this issue it was lame honest.

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

@One_Eye said:

@AgeofHurricane: @x_29: Hey, no worries guys because given the track record that Marvel has for disregarding canon for the convience sake;I'm sure that the ramifications of this event will be forgotten in the next two years. Oh, he!!, who am I'm kidding? Make it six months when the NEXT Marvel event begins!

I'm having fun actually thinking of what the next Marvel event that Will Change Everything Forever will be. My money is on Dr. Doom being the hero and the X-Men being shown as villains because they stopped him from committing genocide. The X-Men will save Captain America's life, but the Avengers arrest them anyway since their government ordered it and considers Dr. Doom to be a new ally. At the end will be a twist, like Franklin restarting this version of the universe in a new pocket dimension only to have the whole crossover get retconned when it's revealed that it was a dream sequence that Broo had after eating some turkey late at night.

@One_Eye said:

@Osian2 said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@Osian2 Yea, you pretty much Omitted everything and 6 and prior, not to mention hope reasoning.

Yea I'm done.

I didn't ignore issue 6 and earlier, re-read my post and you'll see I referenced them. I gave a possible reason why Scott refused to give Hope the power in issue 6 and why he didn't want Logan to kill her in issue 5.

Also Hopes reasoning was just stupid. First she's confident that she can handle the phoenix and that she doesn't need to be trained, then on the moon she says that she was wrong and couldn't handle it. Fast forward to Utopia 2 weeks later when Cyclops asks her if she would accept the power if he offered it she said yes. Then she leaves with the Avengers to do some training. She contradicts herself every 5 minutes! First she's ready and wants the power then she's not ready and doesn't want the power then she wants the power and finally she decides she isn't ready and goes to do some training to apparantly destroy the phoenix. Does she even want the power at this point or just want to destroy it?

I am SO glad that I'm not the only noticing how Hope has see-sawed on her decisions through out this event constantly! It's mind-numbing to the point where I don't even care about this infernal event and nor what happens afterward! I want to post my opinions on these forums and the sort but it feels so draining given all the inconsistent writing and characterization. He!!, I had a conversation with a Spider-Man fan yesterday and even he admits that issue nine of AvX was B.S. However, I'm glad to see that there are some fans who aren't eating this crap up.

Also, I'm still not entirely sure what sort of training the Avengers would provide and how it is superior to what the X-Men would offer. The only panel I saw that even referenced what she was learning from them was some random training offered by Spiderman where she was balanced on the top of a pagoda (this was the same issue where Magik and Colossus defeated Thor). Shouldn't her training consist of, I don't know, workshops and routines that would increase her ability to control the type of power the PF grants while keeping her personality? Wouldn't this type of training best be learned from Rachel Summers, who controlled a fragment of the PF for years, versus the Avengers?

All I remember seeing from her "training" was her carrying to buckets full of water. None of this writing has made sense. Then again, why should it when there's a different writer every friggin issue! The only reason anyone outside of Avengers fans like this event is because they hate Cyclops and want him either dead or thrown under a bus. Well,congrats to all the Cyke-haters, they're getting they're wish. I just hope that they enjoy the Avengers and Wolverine being crammed down their throats in even more so than before.

Inconsistent writing, inconsistent art, next to no character exposition, predictable plots, and the fans being okay with this just leave me stunned

@One_Eye said:

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

@One_Eye said:

@AgeofHurricane: @x_29: Hey, no worries guys because given the track record that Marvel has for disregarding canon for the convience sake;I'm sure that the ramifications of this event will be forgotten in the next two years. Oh, he!!, who am I'm kidding? Make it six months when the NEXT Marvel event begins!

I'm having fun actually thinking of what the next Marvel event that Will Change Everything Forever will be. My money is on Dr. Doom being the hero and the X-Men being shown as villains because they stopped him from committing genocide. The X-Men will save Captain America's life, but the Avengers arrest them anyway since their government ordered it and considers Dr. Doom to be a new ally. At the end will be a twist, like Franklin restarting this version of the universe in a new pocket dimension only to have the whole crossover get retconned when it's revealed that it was a dream sequence that Broo had after eating some turkey late at night.

@One_Eye said:

@Osian2 said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@Osian2 Yea, you pretty much Omitted everything and 6 and prior, not to mention hope reasoning.

Yea I'm done.

I didn't ignore issue 6 and earlier, re-read my post and you'll see I referenced them. I gave a possible reason why Scott refused to give Hope the power in issue 6 and why he didn't want Logan to kill her in issue 5.

Also Hopes reasoning was just stupid. First she's confident that she can handle the phoenix and that she doesn't need to be trained, then on the moon she says that she was wrong and couldn't handle it. Fast forward to Utopia 2 weeks later when Cyclops asks her if she would accept the power if he offered it she said yes. Then she leaves with the Avengers to do some training. She contradicts herself every 5 minutes! First she's ready and wants the power then she's not ready and doesn't want the power then she wants the power and finally she decides she isn't ready and goes to do some training to apparantly destroy the phoenix. Does she even want the power at this point or just want to destroy it?

I am SO glad that I'm not the only noticing how Hope has see-sawed on her decisions through out this event constantly! It's mind-numbing to the point where I don't even care about this infernal event and nor what happens afterward! I want to post my opinions on these forums and the sort but it feels so draining given all the inconsistent writing and characterization. He!!, I had a conversation with a Spider-Man fan yesterday and even he admits that issue nine of AvX was B.S. However, I'm glad to see that there are some fans who aren't eating this crap up.

Also, I'm still not entirely sure what sort of training the Avengers would provide and how it is superior to what the X-Men would offer. The only panel I saw that even referenced what she was learning from them was some random training offered by Spiderman where she was balanced on the top of a pagoda (this was the same issue where Magik and Colossus defeated Thor). Shouldn't her training consist of, I don't know, workshops and routines that would increase her ability to control the type of power the PF grants while keeping her personality? Wouldn't this type of training best be learned from Rachel Summers, who controlled a fragment of the PF for years, versus the Avengers?

All I remember seeing from her "training" was her carrying to buckets full of water. None of this writing has made sense. Then again, why should it when there's a different writer every friggin issue! The only reason anyone outside of Avengers fans like this event is because they hate Cyclops and want him either dead or thrown under a bus. Well,congrats to all the Cyke-haters, they're getting they're wish. I just hope that they enjoy the Avengers and Wolverine being crammed down their throats in even more so than before.

Inconsistent writing, inconsistent art, next to no character exposition, predictable plots, and the fans being okay with this just leave me stunned

True, true. I really wished that this was the plot to a marvel ultimate alliance 3 game in the first place instead of a comic book. Even if you do not like the story you still had the gameplay to enjoy and would not worry about continuity.

@Osian2 said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@Osian2 said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@Osian2 Yea, you pretty much Omitted everything and 6 and prior, not to mention hope reasoning.

Yea I'm done.

I didn't ignore issue 6 and earlier, re-read my post and you'll see I referenced them. I gave a possible reason why Scott refused to give Hope the power in issue 6 and why he didn't want Logan to kill her in issue 5.

Also Hopes reasoning was just stupid. First she's confident that she can handle the phoenix and that she doesn't need to be trained, then on the moon she says that she was wrong and couldn't handle it. Fast forward to Utopia 2 weeks later when Cyclops asks her if she would accept the power if he offered it she said yes. Then she leaves with the Avengers to do some training. She contradicts herself every 5 minutes! First she's ready and wants the power then she's not ready and doesn't want the power then she wants the power and finally she decides she isn't ready and goes to do some training to apparantly destroy the phoenix. Does she even want the power at this point or just want to destroy it?

She doesn't say anything, other than the fact that she mentions the PF still is calling her.

Cyke taunts her with it by calling her a child and saying what she would do.

Go re-read it again it's in writing, and you can't change it

Again your omitting what happen.

I'm done.

Are you just lying for the sake of lying now? First you said that Magneto didn't say that Scott was losing it even though he clearly did at the end of AVX #10 his exact words were "Scott and Emma...They're losing control" and now you're trying to say that Hope didn't say she wanted the power when she clearly did. The conversation literally went like this:

Scott: Yes and if I offered it now...would you take it?

Hope: I...I..yes.

Those were the exact words from the comic that even showed Hope reaching out her hand. Like you said it's in writing I can't change it so why don't YOU try re-reading it?

@One_Eye: I didn't mind that Spider-man was able to stall them (though I don't understand why BOTH Illyana and piotr stayed) the thing that annoyed me was how he got them to turn on each other as if they were some idiotic cartoon villains

I think it's not a case of Hope not being able to decide, but more a case of the Phoenix Force being a corrupting, addictive force. Boiling it down to it's basics:

Early issues - Hope is thinks she's ready to handle the Phoenix Force, but as it draw nearer she perhaps starts to have doubts, hence getting Logan involved as an insurance policy and taking it to the moon in case things went wrong.

On the Moon - She gets a big taste of the PF and realises (or at least thinks) she can't handle it and attempts to reject it.

With P5 Cyke - She now realises the corrupting power of the PF, but having had a 'taste' of it and then being offered it by Scott, she is finding it's call hard to resist when practically standing right next to it, even though she knows its wrong. Kinda like a recovering addict attempting to stay away from their addiction.

Recent issues - She has some distance from the PF and also some time to adjust to her recent encounters with it. This brings about clarity of mind and resolve. She can see the destructiveness of the PF and is absolutely sure in her rejection of it.

New Avengers tie-in issues - These explain, pretty much, that there is a connection between the PF and the Iron Fist force (can't remember proper name!). Basically one is the ying to the other's yang. Iron Fist and Lei Kung know this and know that Hope greatly resembles a previous Iron Fist who managed to defeat/banish the PF centuries ago when it came to Earth. This is the reason why the Avengers want Hope, as she appears to be the only concievable means of defeating the PF, especially now that her powers are also drawing on Wanda's Hex powers which can also hurt the P5.

All of the above is consistent, plot and character-wise, and make sense to me. Don't see the problem.

Also, I don't have a problem with how Spidey got Colossus and Magik to fight. PF is a corrupting force to begin with, which will play havoc with people being logical. PF has been unnaturally fractured and probably has a desire to reunite itself which is subconsciously overriding the hosts mind, prompting / leading them into a situations where just such a thing will occur (basically PF is playing 'survival of the fittest' with it's hosts until it is one entity again in the strongest host). Peter's a smart guy, hell even Hawkeye could've figured this out and tried to exploit it! Why do you think Emma lit the fuse with Namor and sent him to Wakanda - PF corrupting influence, coupled with it's desire for re-unification. PF is a pretty direct cosmic force. Subtlety isn't it's thing. Think a lot of people approach the P5's behaviour as the character behaving out of character (i.e. bad writing), when really it is the PF force influence (i.e. story-driven reason for abnormal behaviour).

I flat out love this thread. Most of all of you are the smartest people I meant on comicvine, granted I am quite new.

A title called Avengers vs X-Men would get a lot of attention. Yet here it is being used to pretty much eliminate X-Men characters and a portion of what they stood for, considering that new Marvel........ thingy..... Back to the future X-Men.

I think, and I know a big fan who think so as well, that Cyclops is being made a mockery of. He is being written as what all his haters thinks he is, a D-bag. Not to mention his powers with the Phoenix Force. It was cool when he stopped Thor's hammer, but he is getting beat up by Hope and his Optic Blast doesn't seem to have obtain a Phoenix boost.

I am finding really hard to see them turning on each other. They each have 1/5 of the phoenix force, which means they all have a portion of it's influence. Yet, the Phoenix Force is influencing a host to essentially attack itself. I get the writers can do what they want with it, but it's just further proof they aren't looking at this as a win for X-Men.

If I don't like AvX I shouldn't read it, but I am going to rage. VT!

@Osian2 said:

I still don't understand how Scott is being seen as a villain. He hasn't done anything "evil" at all. When Hope called him a monster and said that he was destroying innocent lives I just didn't understand it, what innocent lives has he destroyed? The only people he has attacked is the Avengers AFTER they invaded Utopia and Hope left with the Scarlet Witch. I'm sorry but Scott has every right to be upset if while he's changing the world for the better the Avengers attack his home and Hope, the messiah that Cyclops has spent all this time trying to protect leaves with Wanda, the woman who put the mutant race on the brink of extinction. Worst of all Cap tried to blame Scott for the attack on Wakanda.

Namor being seen as a villain I can understand seeing as he destroyed a city but let's think about why he did it. First of all even if he wasn't a host I wouldn't have put it past him to do this anyway he hasn't got a good record. Secondly he was angry with the Avengers for attacking Utopia and third, he is a host of the phoenix which is corrupting him. Why is he a host again? Oh right the Avengers turned him into one. Good job Tony.

Emma has definitely been corrupted also so I can see why she's being seen as a villain. Forcing her own people to kneel and changing their thought gave it away. She did tell Namor about Wakanda but I don't see it as being her fault that Namor lost it he was the one IMO that was most likely to lose it.

Piotr and Magik weren't exactly all that evil. Sure Magik brought a demon prison to earth but other than that what else did she do. Her corruption needs to be explored a bit more it seemed to have occured off-panel. Piotr lost his temper at the school but was that really the phoenix? After all he still is the juggernaut so he already had a short temper. But he still wasn't a "Villain" as he stopped himself before causing any serious harm and even when fighting Spider-man he refused to kill and urged Spider-man to stay down.

I wouldn't mind if Scott had actually killed some one and the said he was being corrupted but so far he hasn't. Even Magneto is saying that Scott has been corrupted. WTF!? Where did he get that from? Just because Emma lost it doesn't mean that Cyke has. From the beginning he has said no killing and ordered that Hawkeye be healed after Emma burned him. They all keep acting as if Cyclops is the most corrupt of all and has been planning all their actions even though he shouldn't be held responsible for the actions of the others. If that were the way it works then Cap should take the blame for Wandas actions.

The Avengers were the only ones who had a problem with the P5 when they first gained the power and even now it's only the Avengers that have a problem. No other country has a problem with them even Reed Richards didn't want to stop Cyclops. If the Avengers just stayed out of the way from the beginning there never would have been a problem.

Dude I can always look to you to be the voice of reason on Cyclops related matters nowadays

@BlackArmor:

Dude I can always look to you to be the voice of reason on Cyclops related matters nowadays

=O!!

@Osian2: What more needed to be explored about Magik's corruption? She was prepared for the Avengers to get eaten by the hell worms and was telling Colossus to kill Spider-Man. How does that not point towards being corrupted and...evil?

@god_spawn said:

@BlackArmor:

Dude I can always look to you to be the voice of reason on Cyclops related matters nowadays

=O!!

You too. You just haven't had any long comments explaining the situation on this particular thread for me to quote and proclaim awesome and truthful

@god_spawn: I get that by then she was evil but I want to know what drove her to that point. Colossus got some pretty devastating news from kitty, Namor felt like the Avengers were insulting his pride i.e. when Wanda told him to "go away". Losing Transonic pushed him along also. Emma we saw was having some trouble dealing with the power. With Magik it seemed as though she turned "evil" off-panel.

@BlackArmor: Thanks :) I wouldn't mind if Cyke started killing Avengers and they called him a villain. But so far he hasn't and when Captain America blamed him for Wakanda I lost almost all respect for Steve.

i agree, at first i thought both cap and scott were both acting irrationally, but i always sided with the x-men and thought the avengers shouldnt have tried to take in hope, once they became the phoenix five they did nothing wrong, they helped society progress and improved the world, the avengers say "at what cost" but i dont see their argument, to say that its unnatural, its such a bullshit argument especially when there are super heroes and villains being as big as they are, when you think about it the only natural heroes are mutants and others born with their powers, the only reason why namor attacked wakanda was to free a mutant, when magik had too much power (a portion of namors) she became corrupted and emma was also on the fence, now that colossus no longer has the power of the phoenix and its just emma and scott its too much for them, the avengers triggered everything and are to blame for the five's corruption and the damage they may cause, but even now i didnt see scott as doing any bad until when he goes looking for emma with his obvious intentions and i suppose trying to take hope from kun lun was on the fence, i dont see the x-men as the villains, even mr fantastic said to give them a chance, its ridiculous, scott shouldnt have been seen as villainous until the end of AvX #10, they were always provoked and that gets lost in translation especially with such a heavy focus on the avengers and theyre struggle, even the writers in the real world dont give mutants a fair chance and good PR (that was a joke)