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    X-Men

    Team » X-Men appears in 12986 issues.

    The X-Men are a superhero team of mutants founded by Professor Charles Xavier. They are dedicated to helping fellow mutants and sworn to protect a world that fears and hates them.

    The Trial of Scott Summers

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    Koays

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    Poll The Trial of Scott Summers (122 votes)

    Guilty 35%
    Innoncent 55%
    Mistrial 10%

    Lets talk Cyclops

    Cyclops is the first X-Man, and more often then not the field or overall leader of various X-Men teams. But in recent years we've seen his fall from grace within the X-Men, as he's gone from Undisputed leader of the team, to leader of a group comprised mostly of (reformed) villains and now leader of a small renegade faction of X-Men.

    The question is 'Did Scott fail during his tenure as leader of the X-Men?' and if so "Is his failure his own fault?"

    Consider the charges to be:
    - Unnecessary Recklessness
    - "Bad" Leadership
    - Child Endangerment/Deaths
    - Arrogance
    - (and most glaring) Failing to keep the X-Men together

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Things to keep in mind are:

    -The creation of a secret X-Force team (and the consequences of the others discovering it)

    -His inability to keep the team together during the Schism

    - The deaths of the depowered children after M-Day and the other students at the Xavier Institute.

    - Training of New X-Men/ former Xavier Institute students as "soldiers" for Utopia

    - His decision to move to/create Utopia.

    - His position during the intial stages of AvX

    (Feel free to add evidence for either side)

    So was Cyclops guilty of failing as leader of the X-Men?

     • 
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    HexThis

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    #1  Edited By HexThis

    Guilty.

    1) He cast out Charles Xavier over a personal vendetta and this was after Charles had become a huge ambassador to mutants all over the world by "coming out", so to speak, as a mutant. Mutants needed a diplomat, they needed someone to publicly advocate for them and Scott had him exiled for telepathically manipulating him. Now, who was sharing Scott's bed at the time? Oh right. Emma Frost, someone who made a career out of telepathic manipulation and readily admits to Laura that she has "destroyed the minds of good people" and she's not at all the first mutant with a shady past Cyke kept around.

    2) Whether or not you think X-force was a good idea, Cyclops withheld it from many of his colleagues which jeopardized the lives of many people a result. Emma was basically his second in command and even she didn't know for most of the time the group had been operating. Certain members of the X-men with seniority, I believe, should've been privy to the activities of X-force because they often faced off against threats to mutantkind. And on one occasion, Scott even allowed Boom Boom to die against the team's wishes then she was only saved because Laura went into the past to retrieve her.

    3) Scott weaponized a strain of the legacy virus to combat the Skrulls during their invasion without knowing if it would permeate and without having a cure. That virus could've wiped out the mutants particularly at that time when there was so few of them!

    4) Perhaps he isn't responsible for his actions under possession of the Phoenix but he was complicit in the Phoenix's activities because he protected Hope Summers even when he knew full well she was harboring the Phoenix. He potentially cost the lives of many allies in the hopes of obtaining godly power, someone please explain to me how that's heroic.

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    adamTRMM

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    #2  Edited By adamTRMM
    • The creation of a secret X-Force team (and the consequences of the others discovering it) - Success!
    • His inability to keep the team together during the Schism - He was accused with things the X-men are since 1963?
    • The deaths of the depowered children after M-Day and the other students at the Xavier Institute - Guilty. He was guilty with being a boy-scout.
    • Training of New X-Men/ former Xavier Institute students as "soldiers" for Utopia - Success!
    • His decision to move to/create Utopia - Success!
    • His position during the intial stages of AvX - Even with a plot heavily against him (like with Schism) - Success!

    Non-innocent, but hell of a leader.

    @hexthis said:

    Guilty.

    she was only saved because Laura went into the past to retrieve her.

    What? She was saved in the main-verse, you were shown what only "could happen", but Laura reappeared to do what needs to be done.

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    Koays

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    @adamtrmm said:

    • His inability to keep the team together during the Schism - He was accused with things the X-men are since 1963?

    No, just from 04 to 2012

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    adamTRMM

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    @koays said:

    No, just from 04 to 2012

    X-men are teenage soldiers since 1963 :)

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    dernman

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    Guilty

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    Eeshaan1685

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    #6  Edited By Eeshaan1685

    lol gotto love the Avengers fanboys give the guilty vote here.

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    XsPectre28

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    im in cyclops defense. everything that scott has done as far as the team goes has been in defense of themselves and the mutant race. scott has led this team the longest and has stepped up to be the true defender of the mutant race that not even xavier or magneto could become. outside factors, (Apocalypse's influence, the void, which seems to be completely forgot about, and the phoenix force) are the things that drove cyclops' additude in a completely different direction that he normally displayed. did he turn the x-men into a more military style team... yes. did he green light X-force... yes.... WHY to protect his race, to protect his people. did he kill xavier... yes, but under any other circumstances other than being driven madd with power thanx to the phoenix force he wouldnt have. cyclops is considered by some an outlaw as of now... WHY, because he no longer plays by the rules when it comes to the protection of the mutant race. he has decided to not wait on the sidelines for another attack. he would rather let his position be known world wide. he is preparing mutants to stand up for themselves. finding and teaching mutants how to use their powers to protect themselves and their loved ones. yes cyclops mission has deferred from xavier's dream which was mutant co-existence but scott has come to the realization that co-existense is next to impossible now so he decided to challenge those who would do harm to mutants. he refuses to bow to S.H.E.I.L.D who has been developing sentinals of their own... he refused to bow to Captain America & the Avengers who had up until that point and time done nothing for the betterment of mutantkind. ill close by saying that despite all the charges brought against cyclops, their hasnt been a better leader, better mentor, and a better man to get the job done like scott summers. love him or hate him he is a force to be reckoned with and he will always do what must be done for the betterment of the mutant race. he is not now nor has he ever been a hypocrite like the ones who would bring these charges against him ( Captain America, Wolverine, Beast, Havok). so i demand a mistrial due to pejudice intent and ulterior motives on behalf of said accusers. WE ARE MUTANT, WE BOW BEFORE NONE THAT SEEK TO DO US HARM, MUTANT AND PROUD!!!!

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    HumanRocket

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    Innocent.

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    Koays

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    im in cyclops defense. everything that scott has done as far as the team goes has been in defense of themselves and the mutant race. scott has led this team the longest and has stepped up to be the true defender of the mutant race that not even xavier or magneto could become. outside factors, (Apocalypse's influence, the void, which seems to be completely forgot about, and the phoenix force) are the things that drove cyclops' additude in a completely different direction that he normally displayed. did he turn the x-men into a more military style team... yes. did he green light X-force... yes.... WHY to protect his race, to protect his people. did he kill xavier... yes, but under any other circumstances other than being driven madd with power thanx to the phoenix force he wouldnt have. cyclops is considered by some an outlaw as of now... WHY, because he no longer plays by the rules when it comes to the protection of the mutant race. he has decided to not wait on the sidelines for another attack. he would rather let his position be known world wide. he is preparing mutants to stand up for themselves. finding and teaching mutants how to use their powers to protect themselves and their loved ones. yes cyclops mission has deferred from xavier's dream which was mutant co-existence but scott has come to the realization that co-existense is next to impossible now so he decided to challenge those who would do harm to mutants. he refuses to bow to S.H.E.I.L.D who has been developing sentinals of their own... he refused to bow to Captain America & the Avengers who had up until that point and time done nothing for the betterment of mutantkind. ill close by saying that despite all the charges brought against cyclops, their hasnt been a better leader, better mentor, and a better man to get the job done like scott summers. love him or hate him he is a force to be reckoned with and he will always do what must be done for the betterment of the mutant race. he is not now nor has he ever been a hypocrite like the ones who would bring these charges against him ( Captain America, Wolverine, Beast, Havok). so i demand a mistrial due to pejudice intent and ulterior motives on behalf of said accusers. WE ARE MUTANT, WE BOW BEFORE NONE THAT SEEK TO DO US HARM, MUTANT AND PROUD!!!!

    I was trying not to be biased on this one, but i got to say- (The entire court stands and gives you Sir a standing ovation)

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    XsPectre28

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    @koays said:

    @xspectre28 said:

    im in cyclops defense. everything that scott has done as far as the team goes has been in defense of themselves and the mutant race. scott has led this team the longest and has stepped up to be the true defender of the mutant race that not even xavier or magneto could become. outside factors, (Apocalypse's influence, the void, which seems to be completely forgot about, and the phoenix force) are the things that drove cyclops' additude in a completely different direction that he normally displayed. did he turn the x-men into a more military style team... yes. did he green light X-force... yes.... WHY to protect his race, to protect his people. did he kill xavier... yes, but under any other circumstances other than being driven madd with power thanx to the phoenix force he wouldnt have. cyclops is considered by some an outlaw as of now... WHY, because he no longer plays by the rules when it comes to the protection of the mutant race. he has decided to not wait on the sidelines for another attack. he would rather let his position be known world wide. he is preparing mutants to stand up for themselves. finding and teaching mutants how to use their powers to protect themselves and their loved ones. yes cyclops mission has deferred from xavier's dream which was mutant co-existence but scott has come to the realization that co-existense is next to impossible now so he decided to challenge those who would do harm to mutants. he refuses to bow to S.H.E.I.L.D who has been developing sentinals of their own... he refused to bow to Captain America & the Avengers who had up until that point and time done nothing for the betterment of mutantkind. ill close by saying that despite all the charges brought against cyclops, their hasnt been a better leader, better mentor, and a better man to get the job done like scott summers. love him or hate him he is a force to be reckoned with and he will always do what must be done for the betterment of the mutant race. he is not now nor has he ever been a hypocrite like the ones who would bring these charges against him ( Captain America, Wolverine, Beast, Havok). so i demand a mistrial due to pejudice intent and ulterior motives on behalf of said accusers. WE ARE MUTANT, WE BOW BEFORE NONE THAT SEEK TO DO US HARM, MUTANT AND PROUD!!!!

    I was trying not to be biased on this one, but i got to say- (The entire court stands and gives you Sir a standing ovation)

    its time to call a spade a spade... if the court is going to bring up these charges on Cyclops im bringing down Xavier, Wolverine, & beast as co-conspirators. im taking down storm because she just lead an X-force team of her own and for the fact that even as a leader she did nothing for the morlocks who were in her charge. didnt beast kill a whole town or race or something in secret avengers???? im putting the whole illuminati on trial for there dismissal of the hulk and all the ramifacations that brought as well well as for their hands in the kree-war. if these charges arent thrown out against my client then someone better be prepared to creat a new prison for almost every hero in the marvel U because none will be safe. I KILLED UATU, I HAVE HIS EYES>>>>> I HOLD ALL OF MARVELS SECRETS, IF SCOTT GOES DOWN< EVERYONE IS GOING DOWN. lmao & JEAN GREY SAID YALL BETTER LEAVE HER Ex-HUSBAND ALONE BEFORE SHE BRING THE PHOENIX FIRE LMAO

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    Koays

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    its time to call a spade a spade... if the court is going to bring up these charges on Cyclops im bringing down Xavier, Wolverine, & beast as co-conspirators. im taking down storm because she just lead an X-force team of her own and for the fact that even as a leader she did nothing for the morlocks who were in her charge. didnt beast kill a whole town or race or something in secret avengers???? im putting the whole illuminati on trial for there dismissal of the hulk and all the ramifacations that brought as well well as for their hands in the kree-war. if these charges arent thrown out against my client then someone better be prepared to creat a new prison for almost every hero in the marvel U because none will be safe. I KILLED UATU, I HAVE HIS EYES>>>>> I HOLD ALL OF MARVELS SECRETS, IF SCOTT GOES DOWN< EVERYONE IS GOING DOWN. lmao & JEAN GREY SAID YALL BETTER LEAVE HER Ex-HUSBAND ALONE BEFORE SHE BRING THE PHOENIX FIRE LMAO

    DEAD.....(funniest thing i've seen on comicvine)

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    XsPectre28

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    @koays said:

    @xspectre28 said:

    its time to call a spade a spade... if the court is going to bring up these charges on Cyclops im bringing down Xavier, Wolverine, & beast as co-conspirators. im taking down storm because she just lead an X-force team of her own and for the fact that even as a leader she did nothing for the morlocks who were in her charge. didnt beast kill a whole town or race or something in secret avengers???? im putting the whole illuminati on trial for there dismissal of the hulk and all the ramifacations that brought as well well as for their hands in the kree-war. if these charges arent thrown out against my client then someone better be prepared to creat a new prison for almost every hero in the marvel U because none will be safe. I KILLED UATU, I HAVE HIS EYES>>>>> I HOLD ALL OF MARVELS SECRETS, IF SCOTT GOES DOWN< EVERYONE IS GOING DOWN. lmao & JEAN GREY SAID YALL BETTER LEAVE HER Ex-HUSBAND ALONE BEFORE SHE BRING THE PHOENIX FIRE LMAO

    DEAD.....(funniest thing i've seen on comicvine)

    LMAO Im on a roll today @koays

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    adamTRMM

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    @koays:

    Well done, now don't let the koas (chaos) spread!

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    CheeseSticks

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    LOL at ''Bad leadership'', ''Arrogance'', ''Unnecessary Recklessness'' and ''Failing to keep the X-Men together''

    - If there's a good leader in the X-Men, it's Cyclops.

    - He saved Mutant kind many more time than any other X-Men.

    - When you saved everyone ass and they're still crying and complaining about your decisions (even if you did saved them from dying), you can be arrogant.

    - Cyclops kept the X-Men together for many years. Only Prof X kept them together longer. And Cyke isn't the only guilty for the Schism. Hyprocrite Beast and Wolverine were the one crying about Cyke.

    So, when you saved your people many times from dead and they're still complaining (even if they didn't had a solution to save Mutant kind, while Scott always have a plan), you're not guilty.

    Cyclops was right.

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    HAWK2916

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    Eeshaan1685

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    #17  Edited By Eeshaan1685

    Cyclops was GOD DAMN RIGHT. Deal with it, son.

    BTW I eagerly await Lvenger's prosecution.

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    Tohoma

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    Innocent

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    devilsgrin81

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    This court of One declares Cyclops Innocent of Failing as an X-Man, and Innocent of Failing as Leader of the X-Men.

    His choices and decisions show great leadership. Great leadership need not be popular. And, in particular, X-Force, was not overly popular with his fellow mutants. But still, i think Cyclops made hard decisions in a difficult time, and he, by and large, made the correct decisions (at least from his perspective).

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    XsPectre28

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    the defense rests!!!!!!!!

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    lykopis

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    #21  Edited By lykopis

    It's way too difficult to judge Scott as being gulty of bad leadership, encompassing the entirety of his tenure as one of the X-Men.

    Do I think he deserves the position? Sure. Were there times I think he didn't? Yeppers. If I were to balance the pros and cons, I could lean towards not guilty but I'm not going to do that. It's what you do in the present (or recent past) that matters and as a leader, today, he's not doing a very good job. He's getting better though, and that's something that's been standard for the character from the get go -- so I say, GUILTY but if the trial gets delayed by a few months to a year, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself voting not guilty. **fingers crossed**

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    AgeofHurricane

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    I lost respect for him after finding out that Nori and Julian (let's not forget Boomer) would have died under his full attention as a result of maintaining the surreptitious integrity of the seemingly ignominious happenings regarding X-Force. Even more so when he manipulated Idie into murdering those HFC goons.

    But nothing will ever top what he did to Madelyne and the baby. NOOTHING!

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    LordMordor

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    Unnecessary Recklessness

    Innocent - Prior to AvX, each and every action scott took was calculated. He took risks, but those risks always had major goals behind them. Osborn was in charge of Shield and the weight of the organization was being levied against the remaining mutants. Scott basically forms his own mini-country and declares it outside Osborns jurisdiction and defends it. Scott was the man with the plan during the majority of this time period, Logan said at one point that he would gladly follow Scotts lead, and Magneto praised him for uniting Mutants in a way neither he or Charles ever could. The real case of recklessness can be found in AvX....the Phoenix is coming to Earth. Scott believes that it is here to "fix" what the Scarlet Witch broke in House of M. He knows the Phoenix. It is a life force, known to burn away what does not work, and to work towards the continuation of life. The X-men have had several encounters against it gone out of control...but its also been shown to be controllable. Rachael Grey had been a host to part of it for years and not once went dark. Hope was the first mutant born after M-day...and when she returns she begins off and on manifesting the Phoenix. Immediately at the end of Second Coming the 5 lights emerge, and Hope displays the ability to stabilize the x-gene. Nothing the scientific or mystical powerhouses of the Marvel Universe had been able to find a way to reverse M-day...Hank had basically given up hope for the race, even Magneto had accepted the end of mutant kind before he learned Hope was alive. Scott didn't. He worked to make sure there was a race to be revived when the Phoenix came to undo "No More Mutants". The Avengers wanted to prevent it from arriving at all costs, even going far enough to actually try to destroy it. Imagine if this was the House of M universe and the phoenix was coming to keep the human race from being extinct, while Mutants would continue to flourish, could you picture the Avengers not attempting to save the race?

    The destruction and death caused by the phoenix was a self-fulfilling prophecy....It was coming to undo M-day...Scott Summers was right in this regard. But the Avengers and Wolverine believed it was a threat that had to be stopped. Their interference caused the phoenix to split into individuals not prepared to handle it. but the first thing those individuals did was remove world thirst, hunger, energy shortage, and various other things. The Avengers then spend their time trying to find ways to fight/kill those 5....which is what cases the 5 to start going on the offensive against them, until a point was reached where the phoenix started going dark and the 5 could no longer control themselves.

    It could be argued that having faith in the phoenix was reckless...but if the shoe was on the other foot, do you think the other marvel heroes might not try a "reckless" plan if it was seen as the ONLY want to save a people?

    - "Bad" Leadership

    Innocent - if there is a single leader of the X-men who was good, its Cyclops. He brought them out of some of the darkest times mutant kind has faced. The race was essentially dead. No new births, 90% of population de-powered or dead, and the rest of the world either actively trying to kill off the last remaining few, or complacent in letting them die out naturally or be killed by the previous group. Most of the other characters eventually gave up hope about the chances of mutants kinds survival. He didn't. He lead them, made a safe haven for them, and protected them from all threats (including the US government under Osborn) and made sure there was a species left to save when Hope returned. Those times meant tough decisions had to be made. Good leaders make those decisions, bad leaders hesitate and get more people killed.

    - Child Endangerment/Deaths

    Innocent - No one was outright forced into serving. Living on Utopia was a choice, and considering how many people were out to finish of the mutants after M-day...EVERY child with an X-gene was in danger. They had to learn to protect themselves because as Pixie discovered when she tried to leave, there were plenty of people who would straight up attack a mutant, child or not, just for being what they are. Him training young mutants to fight was necessary for their own protection. Utopia was a place where mutants who couldn't fight back could be protected. During several attacks groups of young mutants were kept inside while the combatants kept them safe. What happened with Oya was a unusual situation...the X-men protecting the students at the museum are disabled. Wolverine is to far away because he was drinking, Cyclops was not on scene...the Hellfire club was going to kill several team-members along with civilians. Oya was literally the only person present with even a chance of stopping what was going to happen. She could either leave and save herself...or fight. Scott told her to "do what she has to do". Oya was put in an extreme situation, but by the Hellfire Club...not Scott. Had there been ANYONE else there who could have done something, Scott would have asked them to do it. There wasnt.

    - Arrogance

    Mistrial - it can be argued very easily that Scott is arrogant. Especially considering his current actions as a Mutant-Revolutionary. His reason for accepting Magneto and Illyana's breakout after AvX was because he saw that the mutant race still faced threats, and felt that he had to help them, because he felt no one else would do what had to be done. Up until a certain point he felt he had accomplished his mission. The faith he kept in Hope and the Phoenix paid off at the end of AvX when the Mutant race was restored. He was prepared to simply die in prison. But visits from Sinister, the murder of a Mutant inmate, the fact that Wolverine was still working closely with the government and running the school convinced him that he still had work to do. He felt there was no one else who could do what he felt necessary to help the newly restored mutant race find peace. Magneto was still looked at as a villain even when he was working with the X-men, Emma was captured....Xavier dead, Storm and Logan working with the government and the school....he felt there was no one else but him who could be out there getting his hands dirty to protect the newly emerging mutants. This could be considered as arrogance...that he views himself as the only one who can do this, and do it right...but at the same time...who else was there honestly. He was right...new mutants were having guns put to their heads, but there was no one there to protect them.

    -Failing to keep the X-Men together

    Innocent - I would argue this is not even a real charge. Utopia was never a prison or an army. It was a sanctuary. Anyone was allowed to leave whenever they wanted. When the Super-sentinel came...wolverine wanted to abandon ship, and went so far as to rig the entire island to blow to force everyone off. But the students, Oya included, instead rallied to fight and defend their sanctuary while Scott made sure Logan didn't blow the place up with everyone still on it. People have left the X-men multiple times in the past under basically every leader it has ever head. The schism was just the largest such event, and was lead mostly by two people who had EXTREME personal grudges against Scott. Hank deplored the idea of X-force...but he joins up with Wolverine who not only lead the team, but REMADE it after Scott ordered it disbanded. Wolverine hated the idea of training young mutants and turning them into soldiers...when the X-men have ALWAYS been partially about training mutants to control their powers and give them the tools to defend themelves and others.

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    Outside_85

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    As far as I am concerned, Scott is practically the MoS General Zod; willing to do anything to keep his people safe, no matter how violent or cruel.

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    Eeshaan1685

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    The Cyke-haters be trying SOOOOO hard to vote guilty. I wonder how many new accounts were made just to hit the "guilty" button

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    adamTRMM

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    As far as I am concerned, Scott is practically the MoS General Zod; willing to do anything to keep his people safe, no matter how violent or cruel.

    What was so violent and cruel to this day?

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    Outside_85

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    @adamtrmm said:

    What was so violent and cruel to this day?

    Preemptively killing off those who could turn out to be a threat, having a team that's considered entirely expendable, willing to jeopardize lives of everyone on the planet. The X-Men were supposed to be a bridge between humans and mutants, under Scott it turned into something else.

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    primebonnick

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    #28  Edited By primebonnick

    oh yea he is guilty along with beast and wolverine, but i can't agree that he was a bad leader since he was the leader the mutants needed at the time.

    Still more than likely they will blame all his actions on the void which is still trapped in his head waiting for his chance to get out.

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    HopesummersFORtheFUTURE

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    His guilty and innocent. Guilty because he endangered lots of lives, innocent because he thought he could contain the phoenix and even thought he did a better job at it then jean in avx: infinite #2.

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    adamTRMM

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    #31  Edited By adamTRMM

    @outside_85 said:

    1.Preemptively killing off those who could turn out to be a threat

    2.having a team that's considered entirely expendable

    3.willing to jeopardize lives of everyone on the planet.

    4.The X-Men were supposed to be a bridge between humans and mutants, under Scott it turned into something else.

    1. Tell me more please

    2. Same here

    3. With power that he never chose for himself and was forced upon him?

    4. lol it's so selectively contextual, that I don't know where to start. He really should've let Purifiers to bridge between mutants and afterlife instead, I'll give you that.

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    XsPectre28

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    I lost respect for him after finding out that Nori and Julian (let's not forget Boomer) would have died under his full attention as a result of maintaining the surreptitious integrity of the seemingly ignominious happenings regarding X-Force. Even more so when he manipulated Idie into murdering those HFC goons.

    But nothing will ever top what he did to Madelyne and the baby. NOOTHING!

    oh u mean when he left and when jean urged him to return to his family and he already found that maddie and the baby was gone because maddie decided to have revenge by sacrificing the baby to which scott decided he would stay with jean and the x-men..... that!!!

    @adamtrmm said:

    What was so violent and cruel to this day?

    Preemptively killing off those who could turn out to be a threat, having a team that's considered entirely expendable, willing to jeopardize lives of everyone on the planet. The X-Men were supposed to be a bridge between humans and mutants, under Scott it turned into something else.

    that so called bridge u are refering to was up at the time before Scarlet Witched damn near wiped out the mutant race and they because an endangered species that scott took it upon himself to do everything in his power, regardless how out of character to protect....... wouldnt want to be on ur side if something like this happened in real life.... TEAM SCOTT EVERYDAY

    in the end scott did what he felt he had to do to protect his species from dying off. he didnt play both sides of the field, he didnt take the needs of anyone's outside his race over them. he did what needed to be done to make sure his race lived on. wolverine nor beast did such things they only did what they felt was reasonable to save face and cast blame on scott. both are great men besides scott and could have said no or walked out on scott at any given time... but both waited til shyt hit the fan, when they could be implicated along with him to walk off and leave him high and dry. thats why i give storm propers because even thou she didnt fully agree with scott, she stood beside him because she knew that regardless of how it was getting done she knew scott was doing what none before him could, what she, nor, xavier, nor magneto, nor wolverine, nor beast could do and that protect and unite the the remainder of the mutant race......... DONT WORRY ILL WAIT

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    CYCLOPS_WAS_RIGHT

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    a resounding innocent verdict, the people have spoke

    No Caption Provided

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    CheeseSticks

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    #34  Edited By CheeseSticks

    @adamtrmm said:

    What was so violent and cruel to this day?

    Preemptively killing off those who could turn out to be a threat, having a team that's considered entirely expendable, willing to jeopardize lives of everyone on the planet. The X-Men were supposed to be a bridge between humans and mutants, under Scott it turned into something else.

    Scott wasn't like that until the Witch create genocide on Mutant kind. His action after that are totally justified.

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    acer51

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    Scott Summers is technically guilty of these crimes.

    Manslaughter of Charles Xaiver and possibly others, he was under the influence of the Phoenix but he allowed it to happen that makes him accountable.

    Illegal immigration. Scott Summers has been teleporting to whatever country he wants without a passport.

    Kidnapping, he's taken children under 18 without their parents written consent, although he did kind of have to to save their lives so I think he gets off on this one.

    All this granted his country was illegally invaded which pressured him into committing these acts, but we're discussing Cyclops crimes not the Avengers.

    Breaking out of prison.

    Assault of several guards.

    Those are all I can think of off the top of my head.

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    Outside_85

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    Scott wasn't like that until the Witch create genocide on Mutant kind. His action after that are totally justified.

    So you'd be ok if the Panda killed off every human in China?

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    XsPectre28

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    @cheesesticks said:

    Scott wasn't like that until the Witch create genocide on Mutant kind. His action after that are totally justified.

    So you'd be ok if the Panda killed off every human in China?

    that comparison is out of context. only person scott killed was xavier and that was under the control of the phoenix force. the scarlet witch did force his hand.... none of these things that have scott on trail wouldnt have even come up had the scarlet witch not nearly erased the mutant race

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    Outside_85

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    #38  Edited By Outside_85

    that comparison is out of context. only person scott killed was xavier and that was under the control of the phoenix force. the scarlet witch did force his hand.... none of these things that have scott on trail wouldnt have even come up had the scarlet witch not nearly erased the mutant race

    Xavier was the only person Scott killed? So you think the tidal waves, earthquakes, erupting volcanoes and freak weather patterns that occured the world over thanks to Scott didn't kill or hurt anyone?

    Whatever the scarlet witch did will never justify any action Scott takes, if anything, it just showed who he really is when the pressure is on.

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    XsPectre28

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    #39  Edited By XsPectre28

    @xspectre28 said:

    that comparison is out of context. only person scott killed was xavier and that was under the control of the phoenix force. the scarlet witch did force his hand.... none of these things that have scott on trail wouldnt have even come up had the scarlet witch not nearly erased the mutant race

    Xavier was the only person Scott killed? So you think the tidal waves, earthquakes, erupting volcanoes and freak weather patterns that occured the world over thanks to Scott didn't kill or hurt anyone?

    Whatever the scarlet witch did will never justify any action Scott takes, if anything, it just showed who he really is when the pressure is on.

    still refering to the things that were done under the influence of the phoenix... not scott's own personal actions so yea. your right, when the pressure was on he put his personal ways and feelings aside to maintain the preservation of his race. he did what was necessary without killing any innocent people (Under his own influence)

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    Outside_85

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    still refering to the things that were done under the influence of the phoenix... not scott's own personal actions so yea. your right, when the pressure was on he put his personal ways and feelings aside to maintain the preservation of his race. he did what was necessary without killing any innocent people (Under his own influence)

    Except the Phoenix doesnt really have a personality of it's own. Scott didnt turn into anything that resembled anything Jean or Rachel had turned into. What Scott did with the Phoenix was just what he normally wanted to do, but was better at controlling. Same with Emma and Pete.

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    AgeofHurricane

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    #41  Edited By AgeofHurricane
    No Caption Provided

    The 1st face of Scott Summers, ladies and gentlemen.

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    XsPectre28

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    did u really just say

    @xspectre28 said:

    still refering to the things that were done under the influence of the phoenix... not scott's own personal actions so yea. your right, when the pressure was on he put his personal ways and feelings aside to maintain the preservation of his race. he did what was necessary without killing any innocent people (Under his own influence)

    Except the Phoenix doesnt really have a personality of it's own. Scott didnt turn into anything that resembled anything Jean or Rachel had turned into. What Scott did with the Phoenix was just what he normally wanted to do, but was better at controlling. Same with Emma and Pete.

    did u really just say that lololololol ok if u say so. ill let u slide on that...... lolololololololol i never said thou that the phoenix has a personality even thou it clearly does but again if u say so. the phoenix force however does corrupt the minds of those it comes into contact with. namor was the first to fall and with each part that was returned to the other the more it influenced the others. colossus should have benn the first to fall because he was already influenced by his juggernaught persona

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    CheeseSticks

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    #43  Edited By CheeseSticks

    @cheesesticks said:

    Scott wasn't like that until the Witch create genocide on Mutant kind. His action after that are totally justified.

    So you'd be ok if the Panda killed off every human in China?

    If I could give Pandas the chance to avenge their fallen fellow, I WOULD.

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    HopesummersFORtheFUTURE

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    @outside_85 said:

    @cheesesticks said:

    Scott wasn't like that until the Witch create genocide on Mutant kind. His action after that are totally justified.

    So you'd be ok if the Panda killed off every human in China?

    If I could give Pandas the chance to avenge their fallen fellow, I WOULD.

    I dont get this reference

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    Koays

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    @cheesesticks said:

    @outside_85 said:

    @cheesesticks said:

    Scott wasn't like that until the Witch create genocide on Mutant kind. His action after that are totally justified.

    So you'd be ok if the Panda killed off every human in China?

    If I could give Pandas the chance to avenge their fallen fellow, I WOULD.

    I dont get this reference

    Panda's are an incredibly cute endangered species whose population decrease is largely blamed on hunting and development in China. Scott and mutants are the Panda bears and Scarlet/humanity are the Chinese responsible for their near extinction.


    Also while none of these trial are black and white (purposely)....you have to stretch really far to get Cyclops as bad as some people are painting him.

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    Tyger

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    I ... really haven't like Cyclops since he left his wife and child.

    In his defense, AvX was a cluster____ on both sides. Neither really handled it well, or even in character. The biggest missed opportunity was in leaving Wanda sitting by herself and ready to be snatched up by Doom. She was the focal point of what had happened, and was the key to restoring it. Also, they hardly exhausted their options looking for a cure. The fact is, if it weren't for the Avengers (Iron Fist and Scarlet Witch, with a bit of Spider-Man) it wouldn't have worked regardless. Honestly, the only way I can see a lot of what happened is if Jean was pulling some strings on the way in. (But that said, she still ate a bunch of planets on the way.)

    Creating Utopia was... a giant target for everyone that wanted Mutants dead. It really offered very little in the way of protection. It was like Scott (or the writers, more likely) have really not looked even a little bit into the history of similar situations. (Vlad Tepes offered the poor of his country a luxurious, gluttonous banquet. Then bolted the doors and burned the place. Then he could say his country was free of poverty.) There was a reason why slaves had an underground railroad, not a big fenced in hilltop.

    Failing to keep the X-Men together? This team has a huge roster. Nobody is going to do this on a non-stop basis. As long as he has a team, the team is together. Exact roster is going to fluctuate. That he and Wolverine have had a falling out over Jean was... handled better in Ultimate.

    However, child endangerment? Not even close. The children are in danger. Apocalypse, Red Skull, alien invaders, Friends of Humanity. If it weren't for Cyclops, there would be a lot more dead ones.

    Also, I have to ask, other than the suicide, were there any actual deaths as a result of 'No More Mutants', or just depowered?

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    XsPectre28

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    @tyger said:

    I ... really haven't like Cyclops since he left his wife and child.

    In his defense, AvX was a cluster____ on both sides. Neither really handled it well, or even in character. The biggest missed opportunity was in leaving Wanda sitting by herself and ready to be snatched up by Doom. She was the focal point of what had happened, and was the key to restoring it. Also, they hardly exhausted their options looking for a cure. The fact is, if it weren't for the Avengers (Iron Fist and Scarlet Witch, with a bit of Spider-Man) it wouldn't have worked regardless. Honestly, the only way I can see a lot of what happened is if Jean was pulling some strings on the way in. (But that said, she still ate a bunch of planets on the way.)

    Creating Utopia was... a giant target for everyone that wanted Mutants dead. It really offered very little in the way of protection. It was like Scott (or the writers, more likely) have really not looked even a little bit into the history of similar situations. (Vlad Tepes offered the poor of his country a luxurious, gluttonous banquet. Then bolted the doors and burned the place. Then he could say his country was free of poverty.) There was a reason why slaves had an underground railroad, not a big fenced in hilltop.

    Failing to keep the X-Men together? This team has a huge roster. Nobody is going to do this on a non-stop basis. As long as he has a team, the team is together. Exact roster is going to fluctuate. That he and Wolverine have had a falling out over Jean was... handled better in Ultimate.

    However, child endangerment? Not even close. The children are in danger. Apocalypse, Red Skull, alien invaders, Friends of Humanity. If it weren't for Cyclops, there would be a lot more dead ones.

    Also, I have to ask, other than the suicide, were there any actual deaths as a result of 'No More Mutants', or just depowered?

    there were mutant deaths due to "No More Mutants" magma was with a mutant whose powers were similar to hers, they were in a volcano when the reality shifted then shifted back, causing the mutant to die due to not having his powers he fell into the lava and it drove magma crazy until emma sent empath to calm and retrieve her. her have been other deaths and lots were killed due to not having their powers to defend themselves.... many of the depowered students from the school were killed

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    kidchipotle

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    #48  Edited By kidchipotle

    CYCLOPS WAS RIGHT! I WOULD FOLLOW HIM INTO HELL IF HE ASKED!

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    tigerkaya

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    I may not give a crap about his pissing contest with Wolverine but at least he brought the X-men back to who they are rebels and underdogs. Wolverine he's a shadow of his former self with a none of the original personality that made him interesting. I do hope the fires of Mephisto claim Beast and Wolverine just as they have claimed Xavier.

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    Pikachunicorn

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    I really wanted to have an un-biased opinion on this. But I can't... Because Scott is freaking perfect.

    The only thing that I think he ever did wrong was leaving Madelyne the way he did. Everything else I can find a reason for in my mind. I don't think anyone could ever lead the X-Men the way he has. He is a true legend.

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