The X-Men are a superhero team of mutants founded by Professor Charles Xavier. They are dedicated to helping fellow mutants and sworn to protect a world that fears and hates them.
@xwasright: @biswaboxz: looks great.......i really like the yellow and white phoenix outfit cause its supposed to be the highest order of the phoenix called "white phoenix of the crown"
my other favorite outfit other then the jim lee one is
@xwasright: @biswaboxz: @ursaber@pyrofn now i have some questions........in PR5 they never really explained the black and red phoenix outfit.......some fans were saying it meant "death" even more darker the "dark phoenix"
Then we have from HCT, jean was called "white phoenix of the crown"(supposed to be highest order of phoenix hosts)........could the black one mean "black phoenix of the crown" the opposite of white phoenix??? kinda familiar to hellfire club color scheme of black and white LOL
@hopesummersforthefuture:Since they never really gave an explanation I thought maybe it was just meant to be similar to Scott's costume.
.some fans were saying it meant "death" even more darker the "dark phoenix"
So Jean has a white costume which symbolizes life when she dies (or is it "transcends"?) and a Black costume that symbolizes death when she comes to life again? Phoenix needs to keep itself up to date.
Then we have from HCT, jean was called "white phoenix of the crown"(supposed to be highest order of phoenix hosts)........could the black one mean "black phoenix of the crown" the opposite of white phoenix??? kinda familiar to hellfire club color scheme of black and white LOL
The problem is that each writer has their own version of what phoenix is, how phoenix works, and how Jean's relationship with phoenix is. Morrison came up with White phoenix of the crown as the leader of phoenix hosts. Phoenix and the white hot room were something multiversal in his design. In Endsong we have white phoenix without the crown which is the ultimate union between Jean and Phoenix, they are as one. But in this version, phoenix and white hot room are seemingly universal rather than multiversal, and we don't know how much the entire design holds up in terms of Morrison's version.
So if we look at the Black and Red phoenix, it is as if the differences between Jean and Phoenix are coming to a head, they are two complete separate entities and Phoenix's relationship with Jean is downright parasitic, so it is in a way the exact opposite of the white phoenix, but it's hard to determine whether it is the opposite of the white phoenix of the crown as well.
@xwasright: @biswaboxz: looks great.......i really like the yellow and white phoenix outfit cause its supposed to be the highest order of the phoenix called "white phoenix of the crown"
my other favorite outfit other then the jim lee one is
The above dress of jean which is depicted with yellow and red color is dark phoenix or white phoenix? cause on endsong it was regarded as dark phoenix i guess......
@xwasright: @biswaboxz: looks great.......i really like the yellow and white phoenix outfit cause its supposed to be the highest order of the phoenix called "white phoenix of the crown"
my other favorite outfit other then the jim lee one is
The above dress of jean which is depicted with yellow and red color is dark phoenix or white phoenix? cause on endsong it was regarded as dark phoenix i guess......
No, this isn't dark or white phoenix, this is something else. In the late 90's there was a story where Jean was supposedly turning to Phoenix again.
But after a couple of issues the plot was abandoned and the only thing that remained was the outfit and the code name, but no phoenix power really. Here's an article on this: https://www.cbr.com/comic-book-legends-revealed-361/
She kept this outfit until Scott's merger with apocalypse, after that she changed it to the outfit you referred to
By this time she had lost her telekinesis.
and despite stating otherwise and manifesting some phoenix raptors, she didn't really have classic phoenix characteristics. It wasn't until Morrison's New X-Men that she showed real phoenix powers again. So basically it's not really dark phoenix or white phoenix. And the design used in Endsong is different, it's the classic dark phoenix.
I’ve tried. I’ve really really tried, but Ijust can’t get behind Jean’s current red and blue armor look. It’s hideous!
i like the red tights but it should be less blue padding ..........................looks kinda like shes wearing football protective gear(maybe shes a fan of football???)
Men should not design clothing for women. In most cases it just does not work.
Just like 6 feet tall men should not design kitchen cabinets for 5’5 women. ;p
Yes u are u right about some character designers having lack of designing capabilities of designing cloth for women but if u had seen the characters designs of russell dauterman who has done a great job on designing casual clothes,war costumes and evil costumes on both men and women,so it doesn't matter who is the person behind drawing character designs unless u had basic knowledge of anatomy,clothes and a little part of using ur own imagination......u talents will flourish .......otherwise russell couldn't have drawn so many types of costumes for men and women...........therefore people should look into there basic knowledge of design and experience before giving them such type of responsibilities ..... here are some designs of thor and other heroes
this are some casual designs drawn to their respective type of characters and the evil costumes of emnimatrix and hela.He had also drawn quentin quire as phoenix which looks pretty, judging by his initial casual appearance......
If u want to see his interior art of comics then here is the link
https://russelldauterman.com/characterdesign/
There are other artist like chris bachalo and joelle jones who had done good job on character designing both casual and superhero costumes ....
@ashetdust: I gotten used to it. Needless to say, I have the benefit of red being my favorite color and having seen good fan art of the costume. But it’s all subjective in the end.
@xwasright: I like that little tidbit. The thought of another Phoenix story sounds appealing to me for that time. Not that I was reading comics then, but talking context historically for that period, it would’ve been interesting to see Jean and Phoenix actually on a team like it was originally intended for her. To be their Thor. Now, she still kind of is their Thor, though she fits the Scarlet Witch mood more now that I think about it.
Anyways, the current canon is just as good too:
Her not turning into Phoenix in the plotline, but the costume having supposed to be symbolic of her new attitude about her powers, not wanting to hold back anymore. Rather than it being the death of her identity, it becomes a rebirth of it. She emphasizes it only being a costume and her growing powers, nothing more.
Cable, interestingly, would do the same thing later on, and take it further by almost committing murder on her to ensure of the Phoenix threat being tarnished, but is stopped by either Gambit or Beast. (I’d need to find the scan to give a more accurate statement of what happened, but you get the gist) I guess Claremont or Lobdell or whoever after them took advantage of the previous development and grew upon it. Why can’t we have writers like these?
I seriously think we just need a better artist for this costume.
1.It looks good considering the use of the concepts of light and shadow makes her look more persuasive but due u think it will applicable in cases of various different poses of both dynamic and static ? I think it can actually, there are various artists out there who can make it look possible ....i guess....
@xwasright: I like that little tidbit. The thought of another Phoenix story sounds appealing to me for that time. Not that I was reading comics then, but talking context historically for that period, it would’ve been interesting to see Jean and Phoenix actually on a team like it was originally intended for her. To be their Thor. Now, she still kind of is their Thor, though she fits the Scarlet Witch mood more now that I think about it.
I'd like to think she's the Team's Jean or Phoenix rather than the team's Thor or Scarlet Witch. Maybe I'll call Thor or Scarlet Witch the Avenger's Jean.
Her not turning into Phoenix in the plotline, but the costume having supposed to be symbolic of her new attitude about her powers, not wanting to hold back anymore. Rather than it being the death of her identity, it becomes a rebirth of it. She emphasizes it only being a costume and her growing powers, nothing more.
The now dreaded 90's was actually full of ideas (good and bad) that never came to fruition. A lot of the stuff that happened in New X-Men were 90's abandoned plots. Jean turning Phoenix as discussed. Scott's change, which was hinted even before his merger with Apocalypse. Emma, reformed villain, was pretty much half of Gen X redone and probably much more. This site contains the story behind a lot of such plots: https://uncannyxmen.net/secrets. For example, Claremont had a story "wherein the X-Men and Xavier would be 'evicted' by the Summers Clan (Stryfe, Scott, Cable, Alex, Jean and Rachel)" or Onslaught, for instance, was supposed to have a very different origin.
Cable, interestingly, would do the same thing later on, and take it further by almost committing murder on her to ensure of the Phoenix threat being tarnished, but is stopped by either Gambit or Beast. (I’d need to find the scan to give a more accurate statement of what happened, but you get the gist) I guess Claremont or Lobdell or whoever after them took advantage of the previous development and grew upon it. Why can’t we have writers like these?
You mean that bit where Charles was testing to see if any of them were Skrulls?
Edit: or maybe you mean this scene?
In this case it's Claremont, and the reason we can't have writers like him is that the man has single-handedly written half or maybe even more than half of the X-Men's lore.
@xwasright: 1) Lol. So, you’d make Jean the standard to live up to for Thor and Wanda? Why does that sound funny.
2) Wow. That single plotline alone is very interesting. And they call Bendis an idea man. These X-Men writers had so much forethought and were careful in their steps. I wonder what changed. Was it Quesada (by that I mean Perlmutter directing Quesada to speed things up)? Why not develop things more thoroughly like some writers do, like Bunn, Rosenberg, etc? These are really interesting ideas that would’ve been sooooo good!
3) Yup. The panel in your edit is the exact panel I’m referring to. Though the previous one was just as good. Kind of wish it wasn’t all an illusion. Making Jean and Xavier pretty much equals in power and skill is always appealing.
Back onto what I was talking about, so Claremont is the genius. Why am I not surprised. Like you said, he’s pretty much written half of the X-Men’s lore. The man knows how to move things forward even when retreading familiar ground.
@pyrofn:1) Well, TBH I never cared much for Avengers and Justice League. When I look at them, the whole premise is let's put together our biggest solo names and make an interesting crossover, whereas with teams like X-Men and F4 what we have is a team built from scratch. It's a lot harder to have character development in a team where everyone is, above all, affected by their own solo comics, and it gives a lot less freedom to play with the characters. There's a lot more to say on the subject but I won't stray too much from the topic.
2) Funny, Bendis recently said Dan Jurgen has done Superman longer than Claremont has done X-Men. I guess that alone shows his poor understanding of the X-Men (and Superman). The thing with Claremont was that he planned his stories too far ahead. Sometimes he would plant the seed of a plot which he would visit a decade later, and it paid off in the 80's because they were willing to keep him for the long haul, but in a comic landscape where Marvel wants to change the authors so rapidly and runs are largely determined by momentary sales rather than long-term sales and story development, the editors have a big problem with Claremont. In X-Treme X-Men, for instance, he had about a years worth of issues ready before the comic had debuted on the market. https://www.cbr.com/chris-claremont-bill-jemas-argument/
And what made late 90's X-Men stale was mostly the fact that the editors were seemingly afraid of big changes, not a scarcity of ideas on the part of writers. When you think about it, Quesada did actually change a lot of stuff, even if a lot of them were bad. He came in a time when Marvel had just been bankrupt, so it was a rather desperate time, he did many things they normally wouldn't do. So in a way, as loath as I am to admit anything good about Quesada, he acted somewhat better than Bob Harras, because he appreciated change, even if he thought more about tomorrow than the next year and next decade.
3) Personally I wouldn't have even minded if they took panels like this more seriously:
They do, of course, take killing her seriously, I meant the other half naturally.
@xwasright: 1) True. And what is just as ironic is that despite the problems, they keep the roster really rigid, unchanging. Sticking to teams who already have their own solos to worry about. Like, they choose Wolverine, who already is on he X-Men and his own solo series over say, Storm, who very rarely gets her own solo or other characters who haven’t had much chance of development in team or solo books.
2) Given Claremont’s reputation, I don’t blame him. If I were him, I’d still do what he does, but make sure to use a lesser amount of plotlines that I know I am gonna use.
Bendis though is an even worse offender if Eva Bell, Ulysses, and Teen Iceman are any indication of how he never thinks things through when he gets his big eureka moments.
3) Do you mean Jean developing ambient dreams? Or the most powerful psychic notion?
@pyrofn: 1) Again I guess it's a case of momentary sales against long-term progression. Wolverine sales, so put him on every damn marvel comic. Chuck Austen, despite having the crappiest run in X-Men history, was right when he came up with this:
2) Marvel is simply unkind to Claremont. They have an exclusive contract with him, yet they don't give him anything to write. In essence it means they just pay him not to go to DC but they don't want him to write either.
Bendis was more interesting back when he wrote crime comics, although his dialogues got a bit out of hand
I pity Superman. I took a look at Bendis' Man of Steel and it was decompressed as hell. Like 2 or 3 issue's worth of story put in 6 issues.
3) The most powerful psychic. This development is something that happened to both of the superheroines that Stan Lee mistreated the most, Jean and Sue. If you take a look at the Invisible Girl, in half of Stan Lee's stories she was just a damsel in distress, and Jean, while not as bad, was always strained by lifting anything for 10 seconds. Invisible Girl became Invisible Woman, the most powerful member of the Fantastic Four (Franklin aside), and Jean became the most powerful of the O5, I wouldn't mind if she outdid Charles as well.
@xwasright: 1) Rofl! Wonder how Kitty would deal in that situation. She’d probably phase through the floor faster than her run-away-bride stunt.
2) What’s Claremont doing now?
Also, wow, when did Bendis get more wordy than Claremont? Also, i cant follow the ramblings of whatever is going on in that panel.
3) Being First Ladies of their teams and by some extension of Marvel as a whole has its perks. I got around to reading some of the old comics online. I never realized powerful Jean still was even then, even though she was still massively weaker compared to not only her teammates, but her current incarnation. She still was focused enough to put together a gun, levitate her wait, able to maneuver something through rings precise enough in a small amount of time, lift groups of people with no effort, and hold back the entire team of X-Men boys, ranging from her beginning Marvel Girl days to the start of her green skirt costume. I really underestimated just how valued she was back then beyond her being the female of the team through comparison to her current day counterpart.
@pyrofn: 1) I imagine she'll be a lot less "I own the X-Men trademark". Then again, Kitty wasn't much of a leader to begin with. It seems like they think the only way to have character development is by making characters leaders. I would have much preferred it if storm was the headmistress.
2) As far as I know, the backup story in Wedding special was the only thing he has written since the Nightcrawler solo which ended around 2014, so basically nothing.
Bendis' wordiness is repetitious, he'd have characters say the same thing eight times. Sometimes he got so wordy the text would be completely detached from the pictures. When he toned down the wordiness, he started something like stream of consciousness except with multiple characters who carry the same voice.
3) When it came to delicate tasks which needed precision she could even give her modern self a run for her money.
In six seconds
But in bigger things her power was somewhat inconsistent. One issue she would overpower a sentinel, or throw a dinosaur off balance (despite what Dennis Hopeless may tell you four decades later) and one issue she would get strained by levitating herself or one person for seconds. I guess they did whatever they thought the story called for.
Poor Sue though, had to go through crap like this:
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