Notable arcs Cyclops fans want you to forget.

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#1 Posted by poisonfleur (4177 posts) - - Show Bio

So is it just me.... or do most Cyclops fans choose to ignore these episodes?


1) Does anyone remember a young woman named Madelyne Pryor? You know... Scott's first wife he left while she was pregnant when he found out Jean was alive and well? And let's be super honest... the only reason Claremont randomly turned Maddie into a villain was because it reflected poorly that on Cyclops that he lost he left his wife and child to be with his old girlfriend. Making Maddie a villian solved this problem. When in reality, Maddie was originally supposed to permanently replace Jean.

2) After Jean died in All New X-men. Sure... Jean uses her psychic abilities to tell Scott to move on and live his life. But I don't think she would have wanted him and Emma to full blown make out on her grave.... Especially shortly before this, Jean caught Scott cheating on her with Emma.... The same Emma who played a big part in ruining her life and driving her to kill herself in the Phoenix Saga.

3) During AvX... Granted Emma cheated on him with Namor. But is that really a reason to beat her up and rob her of her Phoenix powers? Cyclops seemed very aware of his actions at the time unlike when he killed Xavier.


So long story short.
Scott & Jean.
Jean dies.
Enter Madelyne.
Scott marries Madelyne.
Madelyne gets pregnant.
Jean returns.
Scott leaves his pregenant wife for Jean.
Madylene goes crazy and evil.
Shortly after Scott cheats on Jean with Emma (the same woman who played a part in ruining Jean's life via Dark Phoenix Saga.)
Jean dies.
Scott and Emma make out on dead Jean's grave...
Emma cheats on Cyclops with Namor.
Cyclops attacks Emma robbing her of the phoenix force.
So much for true love....


Do people factor these events in when saying Cyclops is their favorite character? Or do they just skim over them and pretend they never happened? Legit Question!

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#2 Edited by AsheTDust (248 posts) - - Show Bio

According to Bendis logic, the fact that he's had several failed relationships with women would be proof he's secretly been gay this whole time.

Time for me to brush up on those Cyclops/Wolverine slash fics on FanFiction.net

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#3 Posted by mimisalome (2434 posts) - - Show Bio

X-men sure is a disgusting comic... never really like that mushy soap opera where every characters seems like they are in their puberties.

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#4 Posted by poisonfleur (4177 posts) - - Show Bio

According to Bendis logic, the fact that he's had several failed relationships with women would be proof he's secretly been gay this whole time.

Time for me to brush up on those Cyclops/Wolverine slash fics on FanFiction.net

OMG-- did he really say that?????

THAT WOULD EXPLAIN SOOOOOOOOOO MUCH!

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#5 Posted by adamTRMM (5264 posts) - - Show Bio

lolz I know I know, when a story somehow deviates from a tired trope od idealized archetypes and basically caricatures, it must be so unclassy...

Please X-men, BE unclassy again!

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#6 Posted by PyroFN (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm: There the new title.

The UNCLASSY X-MEN!!!

Written Blah Blah.

Illustrated by Who The Heck Cares!

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#7 Posted by Koays (8137 posts) - - Show Bio

Pfft.... still like him

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#8 Posted by poisonfleur (4177 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: @adamtrmm: #MakeX-menUnclassyAgain


LOLOLOL.

Seriously I think the most 'unclassy' moments stand out to me. Emma cheating with Cyclops. Storm and the Mohawk/punk days, Rogue Kissing everyone to steal their powers. etc...

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#9 Posted by kgb725 (14255 posts) - - Show Bio

@poisonfleur: Angel having sex In front of the entire team and his girlfriends parents lol

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#10 Posted by BlueHope (2376 posts) - - Show Bio

Is just marvel desperately trying to make him interesting somehow.

Online
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#11 Posted by BlueHope (2376 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725 said:

@poisonfleur: Angel having sex In front of the entire team and his girlfriends parents lol

Based.

Online
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#12 Posted by adamTRMM (5264 posts) - - Show Bio

I still can't believe how they razed Cyclops, out of all possibilities, and there was room for some of the most innovative ones right there, I still can't believe they are really that creatively bankrupt... And considering Cyclops' radicalization is what made me return to comics, that might be a sign, time to move on again? There's really basically nothing to hold on instead I mean.

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#13 Edited by poisonfleur (4177 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725 said:

@poisonfleur: Angel having sex In front of the entire team and his girlfriends parents lol

Was that with Husk? They were flying right? I vaguely remember this...

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#14 Posted by poisonfleur (4177 posts) - - Show Bio

You know the creative teams are out of ideas when they kill Cyclops, Xavier, Wolverine, and put Storm in the middle of a year long Inhumans promotion arc.......And now Kitty has to lead. -Sigh-

I still feel like she isn't the right fit to lead the X-men. She is more of a human side perspective that most readers basiclly connect with. It's odd for the X-men to mix that with the leadership role...

It's like Jubilee being the leader in the TAS...

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#15 Posted by Koays (8137 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm: lol i feel like creatively Marvel doesnt have any story ideas for X-Men. Just a bunch of people with power trying to make their personal feelings canon.

Cyke? I never liked that thing he did 20 years ago, and im sure nobody else could like his new personality. Lets make every character hate him as much as me and replace him with a fresh version.

Wolverine? Omg i liked that Old man logan version better then the current one. Lets have that guy run around with the team.

I watched an episode of 90s X-Men TAS and i hear it was popular almost 30 years ago. So clearly nobody knows anything about X-Men after that so reboot Rogue and relaunch the series.

Its all just lame ideas that people will talk about with no plan or direction after 6 months which is offensive.....Imagine you were reading a novel and after 6 chapters the writer decided that the issues of morality, mortality and humanity arent important to the characters anymore because the writer wants to write a 70s funk space opera and ignore what they previously wrote.

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#16 Posted by RabumAlal (2942 posts) - - Show Bio

@poisonfleur: Kitty has grown a lot and is an ancient member.

OT, we are all trying to forget Madelyne Pryor.

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#17 Posted by adamTRMM (5264 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays:

What you said makes it sound like it's somehow, in kind of form, is actually organized. I think you're giving them way too much credit. They just fucked up, without any actual reason. And then just randomly realized "oh did we mess up? that's ok, here's another version around "purer" even (as this word even has a meaning in such a cynical and perverted place like the Marvel universe, but they still pretend!). you see you see?! that was all part of our plan! *thanks Bendis*" Ugh this is just amazing how unprofessional it all looks like in the end, and the thought that the X-editors still keep mandating the o5 book into existence, completely leaves me hopeless for the future of this franchise. No matter how "unheroic" a part of the fandom perceived the person Cyclops has turned into, he also gained a following that is rarely seen gathered in comics. How can a company that is built on selling/creating popular property can possibly NOT turn it into a profitable product when they factually succeeded in producing the demand?! I get it, Bendis was there exactly for that matter, but after like 10 issues it became obvious he's much more interested in the o5 rather than "Revolution" and how they hijacked all the attention possible, and slowly he burned out the momentum AvX/UXM/Consequences gave to Cyclops. It all became obvious to me when I've reread the Collective New Avengers arc recently, and I was amazed for a second - Bendis can actually write more than one competent, independent and even "edgy" characters at once when he wants to. So pray tell why was his UXM such a failure? Because he was never truly interested in them I guess, he was maybe in an idea(s) of: badass, infernal, sword-wielding, hell-ruling sorceress; a face of the upcoming Revolution; an ex-terrorist and supervillain and whatever he thought Emma Frost was, I guess we'll never know because of what kind of wallpaper she was... But he never gained a clue what to really do with them, I think ditching Mags and what the end result of the book turned out to be can prove that theory.

I agree with the notion that whoever is unable to play with continuity and craft it into advantages that drive the story, should never, ever touch a comic book that hangs on decades of storytelling and interconnectivity.

Old Man Logan had potential though, but he is bsaically the same caricature they just killed off for some reason.

Rogue... I do like Duggan's X-lobby (Cable, Rogue and Deadpool) in Avengers tbh, and his characterization of her, but personality growth wise? I think they just lost track record of where it stands right now. I'd say it can't be worse than Scarlet Witch's apologist, but then I've read IvX... lolz (but it isn't really funny)

But let's take a moment of relief in the fact that most of the M/DC comics suck right now, so it's not just the X-men.

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#18 Posted by invain (3992 posts) - - Show Bio

Every since X-Men in the early 80s, Scott has always seemed a bit like a asshole to me. Even in the 2000s when he started to become popular, he still seemed like a asshole, especially when written by Brubaker and Fraction. He's alright, though.

Anyway, this isn't that bad. As a Wolverine fan, there are a lot more incidents that I have to overlook to like him.

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#19 Posted by slimlim (310 posts) - - Show Bio

@poisonfleur:never gets old

@ashetdust said:

According to Bendis logic, the fact that he's had several failed relationships with women would be proof he's secretly been gay this whole time.

Time for me to brush up on those Cyclops/Wolverine slash fics on FanFiction.net

OMG-- did he really say that?????

THAT WOULD EXPLAIN SOOOOOOOOOO MUCH!

No Caption Provided

this one never gets old

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#20 Posted by poisonfleur (4177 posts) - - Show Bio

@poisonfleur: Kitty has grown a lot and is an ancient member.

OT, we are all trying to forget Madelyne Pryor.

Why? In what context?

Because people have VERY different opinions on Maddie.

1) some hated her for replacing Jean. And for being in the picture again when Jean came back.
2) Her backstory is too complicated.
3) They don't like her character? Maybe?

I think she was good... Until she was crazy for the sake of being crazy and too normalize Cyclops. I also liked her in Fractions Uncanny run and the short lived XX-men run.

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#21 Edited by HAWK2916 (3714 posts) - - Show Bio

Just about every single member of the X-men has stories that are unflattering or garbage. Not really sure what the OP was trying to get at here but those stories are some of the worst and most convoluted messes in X-men lore that was simply bad writing which all of us should want to forget or ignore. Wolverine, Storm, Kitty, Rogue, Psylocke, Xavire and Jean equally have stupid and ridiculous stories and arcs better left forgotten

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#22 Posted by jesusdisciple001 (602 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimlim: Just the logic of Bendis, I doubt he said that.

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#23 Posted by poisonfleur (4177 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

Just about every single member of the X-men has stories that are unflattering or garbage. Not really sure what the OP was trying to get at here but those stories are some of the worst and most convoluted messes in X-men lore that was simply bad writing which all of us should want to forget or ignore. Wolverine, Storm, Kitty, Rogue, Psylocke, Xavire and Jean equally have stupid and ridiculous stories and arcs better left forgotten

Okay.... Nobody has screw over the love of their life ---and multiple times at that like Cyclops. He definitely raised the bar compared to the rest. COME ON... Making out with Emma on Jean's Grave??? How disrespectful to the legacy of a woman who saved the world...but he's supposedly the most respected leader of the X-men. I don't think so..

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#24 Posted by HAWK2916 (3714 posts) - - Show Bio

@poisonfleur: Like I said.... bad writing. Yeah it's screwed up but those were terrible garbage stories and we're the product of writers and editors fighting like children. I don't think any of his so called actions diminished Jean in the slightest. I mean she became a God really so she could care less. Like I said I don't really see the reason for this thread except to try and piss off some fans. I don't get why us x-fans have to argue about who's the best when it comes to Wolverine and Cyclops and whoever else (I said Wolverine because mostof the time it's Wolverine fans that pull this stuff)

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#25 Posted by Anopticblast (56 posts) - - Show Bio

@poisonfleur:I think Nathan was already born when he went to see Jean.

As a fan of the character, no, I never over look these incidents. Some may say bad writing, some may say its because he sucks, and a full laundry list of other reasons. When I read X-factor and about his relationship with Madelyne Pryor, I fail to see how people make him out to be this awful father and husband. The whole arc leading to this moment was filled with him questioning if he loved Maddie because she looked like Jean, or because she was really something different. He had conflicts with leading the team, being a husband, and a father. These were all very reasonable and human actions. He felt uncomfortable about this and figured it was better to simply accept that he was drawn to a woman that reminded him of his dead ex; after all, he was still grieving the death of Jean and her appearance both in the comic and physically basically destroyed any progress he had made.

Concerning his leaving, it's pretty fair to say that most people would want to see a loved one who just returned from the dead. Not only that, but the love of their life and a person who meant a lot to him. Cyclops did not simply abandoned Maddie; to be honest, both of them were in a very uncomfortable situation at the time. Maddie was bothered by the fact that she looked like Jean and began to question who she really was and if scott truly loved her. Scott was going through something similar. This, in turn, made both characters somewhat erratic around one another. Maddie was afraid she wasn't loved and began to pry onto Scott a lot. Cyclops can be an extreme introvert, which made them both frustrated with one another.

What Maddie did to Scott after Jean's death is the same effect jean had on their marriage. Scott did not just leave his wife and son not planning to ever return. He was conflicted and torn by the whole situation, and he never stopped thinking about them. He still sent money home, but was also afraid to confront the person he married who looked identical to the person he loved, who is now alive again.

This mess did come out of writing that isn't the most pleasant when it comes to X-men, but it did happen. And I think it was handled pretty well for the most part. I found it very difficult to see Cyclops as an asshole, bad father, or bad husband, when he still fulfilled those duties and never stopped looking for his son and wife when they went missing.

Her being a villain was pretty lazy however, but Inferno was good enough lol. At least we got Sinister from this whole thing.

The whole Emma/Scott/Jean situation feels a bit more contrived than Madelyne's situation. After Apocalypse kinda messed up his head, it was a bit understandable that he distanced himself from the person he felt closes to because he felt like a different person and not the one she married. And to be fair, although it doesn't necessarily help, Emma did take advantage of him in a vulnerable state. Most of that arc was a bit strange and it only barely works because Jean dies again and the whole phoenix of the white crown pushing Scott to be with Emma. Honestly, this was more baffling than the whole Madelyne arc which was kind of a parallel of Spider-man's whole thing with Gwen Stacy. The Here Comes Tomorrow story line attempts to make it work.

At the end of the day, many characters have silly or stupid moments that amount to nothing but confusion and pointless arguments. There are way more positives to Cyclops than negatives, same can be said about a lot of other super heroes.

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#26 Edited by SammyGothic (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok it does sound bad but things were more complicated than this.

I liked Madelyne Pryor, more so than jean who was always way overrated imho. It was a bad writing and kind of a mess with all Madelyne turning villain and all. Scott did not knew Jean will come back so he did what every person would , he tried to continue living his life and imo he was a good father and husband. Marriage breaks apart and people leave and divorce and his reasons were ok imo. He always loved Jean more than she loved him thats for sure. If he stayed with Madelyne while loving another woman that would be more disrespectful and unfair to her.

He did had psychic affair with Emma while he was married to Jean but you forget that she had physical and emotional affair with Wolverine so its not all Scotts fault. When i marry my fiance one day i sure wont disrespect him in the way Jean did. Wolverine openly makes advances towards her and she gets all horny admitting her physical attraction to him and even kisses him on several occasions. Iam not even sure if Jean even loved Scott at all since she never cares for his feelings and somehow its written to show only how much Scott loves her but not other way around all that much.

*So much for true love* is indeed true when it comes to these two but it takes two to destroy a marriage and they both were at fault. maybe her even more so than him.

Scott is my second fav char after scarlet witch ofc and while he can be boring at times i still think everyone unfairly bash him for things he is not completely at fault.

Sorry for my English iam really trying my best u.u.

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#27 Posted by TVC-15 (2048 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh, I don't want anyone to forget. People mess up, sometimes harder then they should. Not everyone can be a blameless, flawless, infinitive powerful, weather goddess.

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#28 Posted by PyroFN (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@anopticblast: Flawed individual maybe, but flaws don't excuse ones actions. It should give them reason to work on them, not accept them. Humans are allowed to make mistakes, but not keep doing them after they already made them. It shows a lack of growth.

Scott unfortunately falls into that category. If he was grieving Jean, then he should have never moved forward. If it still haunted him, he should have told Madelyne, so that she could determine whether she wanted to continue the relationship or not. Human or not, we work to be better for those we love. What worth would it be for Madelyne to have money sent for her and the baby coming from the person who should be by their side? The person running around with the person he clearly was in love with, which isn't her. As hard as it is, he had to confront the situation at some point. He never did intentionally. It was drawn out of him after someone tricked him into thinking Jean and Maddie and the Phoenix were all the same person. He started looking for his wife and son once Jean prompted him to go to them. He didn't urgently look for them until he realized that they were gone.

Once more though, we see that very trait that you mentioned. He was introverted and hid his feelings from Jean. If Scott had worked through his problem by talking to Jean, he wouldn't have felt guilty with how he left things with her when she died. True, she was busy and took solace in Logan (in which she has no excuse either), but I can guarantee that she would have new what to do to help. After all, she had been through the same things he had been through. He was wrong in trying to make himself the perfect person for her, because that caused him to think that he she would only love him if he was that ideal man. There is no evidence to support that, she married him for better or worse, and was clearly ready to give it another shot with him, albeit with some encouragement from Logan ironically. Bad writing from Morrison is the ultimate cause for this situation. There was also no need to kill Jean either. It would have been very interesting to see how she would have dealt with Scott picking Emma, which is what he seemingly was gonna do from my standpoint. I actually made a little fan story of that in another thread. Would have been organic and actually could have helped the two move forward had Jean not died. Granted, nothing would have been perfect, but would have been a lot better than the flack they went through in as a result of bad writing.

I don't think Scott as someone with clear intent on maliciously hurting the women in his life, but he clearly needed to work through his issues if he ever hoped to have a successful relationship.

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#29 Posted by PyroFN (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@sammygothic: True, people come and go in marriage, but that isn't ideally what we want to paint for people because two people pledge their love for each other forever. People not holding true to their word is a very bad thing and the fact that most people are so nonchalant about it is a darn shame. If people actually worked through issues thins could have been better. Rather than giving up so easily.

Enough rant from me in the tangent. Back to Scott. Like I said, he should not have married Madelyne. He should have talked to Madelyne and she would have had more understanding and less neglect.

Jean is almost blameless. True, she kissed Logan, but he encouraged her to move forward with Scott because he new that she didn't really feel loved, the same way Maddie felt. He new that if Jean worked through their issues, then there may still have been a chance. Clearly Jean wanted things to work because she didn't persist with Logan, nor did she argue with him. She was adamant about moving forward with Scott, he was not. For years she has rejected Logan for Scott, one moment of weakness does not change that. Scott stuck with Jean his whole life, BUT, he didn't have one moment of weakness. He had a full blown affair at heart and shown he had clear second thoughts when he told Jean he made his decision. Jeans relationship with Logan is not the same as Scotts relationship with Emma. Jean was wrong, but she didn't give up like Scott did.

Jean didn't have second thoughts. She was busy yes, but not at fault for the downfall of her marriage. She wanted to work thins out and even sought help with Scott from Emma. The problem was Scott, not Jean. True, she wouldn't get in the way of his decision, but she was not by any stretch giving up until the decision was made.

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#30 Posted by Mizerous (218 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops was right.

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#31 Posted by wallywest042 (461 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Cyclops even considering the above. A character can't be all good. He has flaws. But that doesn't take away the fact that he's a freakin badass. He doesn't have to be all good. Wolverine stabbing Rachel Summers is worse than anything Cyclops has done, but people ignore that.

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#32 Posted by ursaber (2935 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn said:

@sammygothic: True, people come and go in marriage, but that isn't ideally what we want to paint for people because two people pledge their love for each other forever. People not holding true to their word is a very bad thing and the fact that most people are so nonchalant about it is a darn shame. If people actually worked through issues thins could have been better. Rather than giving up so easily.

Enough rant from me in the tangent. Back to Scott. Like I said, he should not have married Madelyne. He should have talked to Madelyne and she would have had more understanding and less neglect.

Jean is almost blameless. True, she kissed Logan, but he encouraged her to move forward with Scott because he new that she didn't really feel loved, the same way Maddie felt. He new that if Jean worked through their issues, then there may still have been a chance. Clearly Jean wanted things to work because she didn't persist with Logan, nor did she argue with him. She was adamant about moving forward with Scott, he was not. For years she has rejected Logan for Scott, one moment of weakness does not change that. Scott stuck with Jean his whole life, BUT, he didn't have one moment of weakness. He had a full blown affair at heart and shown he had clear second thoughts when he told Jean he made his decision. Jeans relationship with Logan is not the same as Scotts relationship with Emma. Jean was wrong, but she didn't give up like Scott did.

Jean didn't have second thoughts. She was busy yes, but not at fault for the downfall of her marriage. She wanted to work thins out and even sought help with Scott from Emma. The problem was Scott, not Jean. True, she wouldn't get in the way of his decision, but she was not by any stretch giving up until the decision was made.

No Caption Provided

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#33 Posted by Koays (8137 posts) - - Show Bio

Seriously though, it always bugs me when people try to stop fans from liking Cyclops.

It always comes off as one side doing everything in there power to stop someone else from enjoying a character having a moment with information that has nothing to do with why someone is enjoying them.

It's like:

Fan: Wow did you see how Cyclops sacrificed himself to Apocalypse for Nate Grey. I mean he barely knew him.

Hater: But he knew Maddie. Why couldnt he be there for her an Cable?

Fan: Oh boy Cyclops just assembled all the X-Men in Utopia to make a big stand this should be good.

Hater: He started X-Force. Fire him an put Storm in charge.

Fan: You know I really have enjoyed the general direction of Cyclops' mindset over his last couple of character arcs and how its sorta forcing him to walk a line between Realist and Idealist that people are still willing to follow him on. It's a complex arc that seems to be

Hater: Ayo Ima let you finish. But Cyclops cheated on Jean and made out over her grave.

Fan: Wasn't that a mental compulsion from Future Phoenix Jean?

Hater: Sir please don't bring facts into my hatred.


It's just amusing that acknowledging Scott moments or even enjoying the character bothers people so much, but Ironman is walking around drunk building super sentinels and his fans just shrug it off.

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#34 Posted by poisonfleur (4177 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

Seriously though, it always bugs me when people try to stop fans from liking Cyclops.

It always comes off as one side doing everything in there power to stop someone else from enjoying a character having a moment with information that has nothing to do with why someone is enjoying them.

It's like:

Fan: Wow did you see how Cyclops sacrificed himself to Apocalypse for Nate Grey. I mean he barely knew him.

Hater: But he knew Maddie. Why couldnt he be there for her an Cable?

Fan: Oh boy Cyclops just assembled all the X-Men in Utopia to make a big stand this should be good.

Hater: He started X-Force. Fire him an put Storm in charge.

Fan: You know I really have enjoyed the general direction of Cyclops' mindset over his last couple of character arcs and how its sorta forcing him to walk a line between Realist and Idealist that people are still willing to follow him on. It's a complex arc that seems to be

Hater: Ayo Ima let you finish. But Cyclops cheated on Jean and made out over her grave.

Fan: Wasn't that a mental compulsion from Future Phoenix Jean?

Hater: Sir please don't bring facts into my hatred.

It's just amusing that acknowledging Scott moments or even enjoying the character bothers people so much, but Ironman is walking around drunk building super sentinels and his fans just shrug it off.

Doing something good doesn't necessarily make up for the bad a character does tho? So what's your point? Nobody said you can't enjoy his character.

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#35 Posted by Koays (8137 posts) - - Show Bio

@poisonfleur: And doing something questionable doesnt make up for the good a character has done....so whats the point of your thread?

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#36 Posted by Anopticblast (56 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: I agree with you. It seems people spend more time trying to ruin or deconstruct Cyke than any other character I have ever seen. He has made some mistakes and he has issues, but a lot of other heroes do as well; they are just simply different. Scott Summers has done far more good than harm, and he has never harmed intentionally.

Take the two Hanks of the Marvel universe for example. Hank Pym and Henry/Hank McCoy. People continue to give Pym shit for hitting his wife, which was awfully explained as nonsense later. Beast brought the O5 from the past into the future. These two actions are generally seen as bad, especially in Pym's case; however, these two characters have been doing good deeds for decades, so it only makes sense for them to mess up in some regard. Unfortunately this occurs to make a character interesting again or too increase sales or some other shallow motives. Something many heroes have fallen victim too.

Cyclops messed up some, yes, but that doesn't change the fact that he felt remorse, regret, and changed as a person over the years. As dumb as the whole affair was, sometimes people just wake up and lose interest in their spouse: it happens, people. The point is these were mistakes or actions he took because he felt a certain way about something, and I think it is safe to say he would still be with Jean if he didn't sacrifice himself to save Nate from Apocalypse.

And I still stand by the fact that no matter how you look at it, Maddie, Jean, and Scott were in a shitty situation that was worsen simply because it is the world of a comic book. I still don't get how people don't understand what it would mean if a loved one all of a sudden came back to the life, from the grave, and it happens to be the person you wanted to marry. If that doesn't merit a mistake, then I don't know what does.

People push their own thoughts and morals far too much on the actions of others. Try using some Empathy for both fans of the character and Cyclops himself.

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#37 Posted by Robert2928 (88 posts) - - Show Bio

So is it just me.... or do most Cyclops fans choose to ignore these episodes?

Do people factor these events in when saying Cyclops is their favorite character? Or do they just skim over them and pretend they never happened? Legit Question!

"Do people factor these events in when saying Cyclops is their favorite character? Or do they just skim over them and pretend they never happened? Legit Question!"

Cyclops is my favorite Marvel character (despite many believing Deadpool to be my one and only senpai)

1.) Those events are what I would consider A.) writers not knowing what to do with the character who was created in the 1960's B.) Marvel making decisions behind the scenes with their IPs. I mean I think the real reason cyclops left Madelyne Pryor was because Marvel wanted the original X-Men back together for X-Factor so they made it happen (not caring how it would impact character development) How can you fault the character for that? There was a plan for cyclops and it likely changed due to Marvel's demands. Null and Void. Even if Scott did leave his pregnant wife and kid for his first love who he thought was dead...who cares? The scott and jean thing was being built up since the 1960's when they were like what? 15 years old? My question is...if we flip the roles and Jean left her husband to be with scott...would anybody care? I beat people would be like "Oh she left her husband to be with her one true love" or some bs like that. Cyclops does it...and he's an asshole. That double standard doe...

2.) Like Jean and Wolverine were never a thing? lol I could say Jean physically cheated compared to "mentally" cheating. Hell I could even build the argument that jean did something similar with Wolverine off panel. It's possible. Also not explicitly said but didn't Jean and mastermind have a thing when Cyclops was "dead" (at the savage land) during the Phoenix saga? Marvel knows long time couples don't sell books (See Spider-Man) so they "shake it up" leading to forced love triangles (hello jean, scott and logan) It's there to keep fans talking.

3.) In AvX it could be argued that the phoenix force was slowly corrupting the phoenix five. If I remember correctly the catalyst was when namor lost his powers and the corruption worsened. I mean colossus and magik turned on each other so....why wouldn't scott and emma turn on each other? If cyclops didn't do it I'm sure a corrupted Emma would have been tempted to take the power for herself attacking cyclops and robbing him of the phoenix force.

The point about Marvel disliking long term relationships can be applied to all 3 of these wait...all 3 of these are focused on relationships lol As a cyclops fan I'm not interested in his love life, I wanna see him shoot his optic blasts in people's face. If Disney didn't have a hard on for the Avengers I could see that more. People like cylops because when the chips are down he will do whatever it takes to save mutants (including shooting someone in the face with an optic blast) That's how Disney made him into a villain. Like if captain American nullified a cloud that was known to kill humans he would be a hero...but when cyclops does it he's a terrorist LMAO at this double standard doe...

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#38 Edited by Anopticblast (56 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: I'm pretty sure they talked about the whole "looking like Jean" situation. In fact, Scott went to Jean's grave to organize his thoughts and feelings before they were married. Maddie was scared, angry, and confused about the whole situation. Scott was, scared and confused but he did try to be optimistic; both of them tried to do so. This wasn't something they could just brush under the rug and Jean returning did not help at all.

I don't get why people think that Cyclops's leaving to see Jean is the worst thing they've witnessed. It would have made less sense if he were calm and methodical about it. It stands to reason most people would be there in a flash if anyone they loved came back from the dead. The main reason people think it was so bad was because of how afraid Madelyne was, which was fair on her part. She already felt like she was losing him to a dead woman and, without her knowledge, here comes Jean and he's out the door.

And of course he didn't go looking for his family immediately. He would only do that once he found out they were missing.

I do know what it's like to make that one phone call that could change your entire life: it isn't a good feeling at all. Instead of bashing his decision, maybe more people should try to understand it. Cyclops isn't going to do everything you think is right and proper: it would not make any sense.

On the other hand, I do agree with you on the Emma, Scott, Jean situation for the most part. It was just kind of weird. I will say that we don't have much proof if Cyke would have left Jean if she had not died. If he really loved Emma, then let him make his own choice. I do feel like he would have stayed with Jean. He did say "I never wanted to hurt you." His attraction to Emma Frost seemed real, but he also just needed someone to help him cope, and she was someone newer who could do that.

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#39 Posted by Koays (8137 posts) - - Show Bio

@anopticblast: lol im not even mad about the dislike so much as the fact that this much effort is being put into challenging like for a character who has clearly suffered from bad wtiting and yet become complex as a result of it shaping him... like no one is mad at Bishop because they made him a child killer. Their mad at the writers.

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#40 Edited by PhoenixoftheTides (4684 posts) - - Show Bio

To be honest, even with all of his drama, I think Cyclops has one of the more coherent and relatable issues compared to other X-Men so a lot of these arcs are not really things I would want to forget or even hold against him considering the kooky messes that some characters' backgrounds are. I think I am just more willing to accept a space pirate for a father and a clone for an ex-wife over being the son of a demonic overlord from another dimension populated by bamfs or the mess that is Wolverine's background.

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#41 Posted by PyroFN (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@anopticblast: It wasn't his reaction that was bad, it was his choice. He reacted as any normal individual would, but individuals seldom let their emotions dictate their actions. That is how we keep thins under control, otherwise things go wrong as they did for Scott.

He should have went back to his family immediately, after telling Jean, who he didn't do either.

Nobody is bashing him, nor does anyone not understand how he feels. That said, it doesn't mean we should simply put things lightly on serious situations like this. It may be a fictional character, but it is dealing with a real life problem in the world. There is a right thing to do things and there are wrong ways to go about things. It might not always be as clear as day, nor it be lollipops and rainbows, but we do them anyways because it keeps things going right for our loved ones around us.

Scott made a bad decision, so what. It happened. We would forget it if it weren't ingrained in his character as evidence had shown. It isn't as overreactionary as it was for Yellow Jacket's so called marital abuse towards Janet. This is something Scott had done to not one wife, but to two wives. I would bet that if Jean were still alive, he would've left Emma to go back to her as evidence was showing him regretting leaving Jean and missing how things were. Its sad, but true.

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#42 Posted by PyroFN (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: The difference is that they didn't get integrated into Bishops character by multiple writers like Scott. If Jean were alive later on, because evidently Scott started having dreams of her and had a rather peculiar reaction to both the teen version and Xorn version, I would bet he would have ran to her.

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#43 Edited by ursaber (2935 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn said:

@anopticblast: It wasn't his reaction that was bad, it was his choice. He reacted as any normal individual would, but individuals seldom let their emotions dictate their actions. That is how we keep thins under control, otherwise things go wrong as they did for Scott.

He should have went back to his family immediately, after telling Jean, who he didn't do either.

Nobody is bashing him, nor does anyone not understand how he feels. That said, it doesn't mean we should simply put things lightly on serious situations like this. It may be a fictional character, but it is dealing with a real life problem in the world. There is a right thing to do things and there are wrong ways to go about things. It might not always be as clear as day, nor it be lollipops and rainbows, but we do them anyways because it keeps things going right for our loved ones around us.

Scott made a bad decision, so what. It happened. We would forget it if it weren't ingrained in his character as evidence had shown. It isn't as overreactionary as it was for Yellow Jacket's so called marital abuse towards Janet. This is something Scott had done to not one wife, but to two wives. I would bet that if Jean were still alive, he would've left Emma to go back to her as evidence was showing him regretting leaving Jean and missing how things were. Its sad, but true.

Scott and Jean have been attracted and in love with each other since Stan Lee's original run. They are primordially connected. Over the years and their missions together they became close friends and from that friendship love bloomed. A love between soulmates. He didn't love or shared the same connection with Madelyne or Emma as he did with Jean. Jean was the one he was always after, the one he always loved. Their marital dysfunction was due to Morrison wanting to break them up and writing it that way. The two have been through so much together and have helped each other in their darkest moments that not even them drifting apart during their last times together could change that. Scott would've chosen Jean. His attraction towards Emma was an attraction and as evidence shows afterwards genuine affection. But Scott would've remembered on the verge of losing Jean, that she's the one he always loved and the one he chose when he married her.

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#44 Posted by PyroFN (556 posts) - - Show Bio

^^^Truth.

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#45 Edited by adamTRMM (5264 posts) - - Show Bio

So if people do realize that those specific instances have everything to do with both writers and editors pushing their agendas, why are there still hard feelings on the issues? I do think that kissing Emma over Jean's than yet warm grave was cringeworthy, but in story, it happens with Jean's approval... Even moreso, she basically makes that happen. And while it's this comicbooky campiness in its purest form, it's also the exact agenda we know the writer pushed. So why blame Cyclops as character again?

Same campiness in a different form happened with editorial mandate on reuniting Jean and Scott after she was resurrected marginalizing Maddie in the process. It was just forced to happen no matter what.

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#46 Posted by Koays (8137 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm said:

So if people do realize that those specific instances have everything to do with both writers and editors pushing their agendas, why are there still hard feelings on the issues? I do think that kissing Emma over Jean's than yet warm grave was cringeworthy, but in story, it happens with Jean's approval... Even moreso, she basically makes that happen. And while it's this comicbooky campiness in its purest form, it's also the exact agenda we know the writer pushed. So why blame Cyclops as character again?

Same campiness in a different form happened with editorial mandate on reuniting Jean and Scott after she was resurrected marginalizing Maddie in the process. It was just forced to happen no matter what.

Points exemplified by the next dozen or so writers trying to fix those things after they happened. Like Cyke an Jean spent a good deal of there page time trying to smooth over the Maddie thing. And Cykes 2000 push being in a direction away from Morrisons craziness.

It's just blah. I'd love to have a discussion on "Bad characters VS Bad Writing"....Cyke just isn't the one to have the debate over, since most people who don't like something he did, didnt like him before he did them.

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#47 Posted by Anopticblast (56 posts) - - Show Bio

@ursaber: I agree with what you all have said. Bad writing, coercion, and bad direction have brought us a lot of this. I think Joss Whedon may have said it best in Astonishing X-men.

When Scott was talking with Emma early on in the series he told her that Jean was a part of him, and that would never change.

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#48 Posted by AsheTDust (248 posts) - - Show Bio

@wallywest042: Wolvie has a long history in trying to kill off the Grey redheads. Its a thing for him.

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#49 Posted by wallywest042 (461 posts) - - Show Bio

@ashetdust: That's not my point. Cyclops did mistakes like any other human, but what Wolvie did to Rachel was bullcrap. Still people hound Cyclops. I say his mistakes make him a more relatable and grounded character. Cyke is not proud of the things he's done. Wolverine is forgiven coz he's popular.

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#50 Posted by AsheTDust (248 posts) - - Show Bio

@wallywest042: My post was poking fun at Wolvie's behavior, not your argument. Any character that's been around for awhile and that has had multiple writers is going to act irrationally on occasion. Don't let the Wolvie fanboys get to you.

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