Pretty much self-explanatory as the title suggests. And yes it is coined after a provocative, well-known slogan intentionally.

Anyway, maybe there was a thread like this, but I'm not in the mood to search for it and honestly, it's mess in here so who cares? But I do want some of your personal insight on how mutant metaphor should work, could work or would it even still be needed. We all know what is the mainstream perception of what mutants are reflective of. Some passionately agree with that, other not so much. But one thing I'm pretty convinced is certain, it has gotten stale, and more importantly, irrelevant. Back in the day, minorities weren't as well represented as they are now so it was somewhat of an alternative. But when you have the real thing, why would you settle for something that only wishes it was the original thing? Or more importantly rarely even worked that way?

My question is, how can mutant metaphor be properly readapted to this fresh reality of now so it won't feel redundant and forced? And if it shouldn't, what should be there for X-men to stand out? And generally, what are your ideas and thoughts on the issue in general my fellow X-heads?

Simple.

Take the route Age of X-Man has in their universe, without the emphasis on division and individuality.

Since the Marvel Universe prejudice people are extremist, make them riot. Make the SJW’s for mutants fight them and have the X-Men try to mediate between them. Something signifying progress.

The problem is the same real life prejudice that birthed the X-Men is just as prevalent today, sorry if that seems "stale" to you, but this country and this world have changed very little since the inception of our favorite metaphor. Uncanny is currently taking a crack at it. Mutants are being killed by the police and civilians alike and those cold-blooded murderers go unpunished just as African Americans are gunned down in the back without a chance at justice because someone "thought they saw a weapon." They run because there's a 50/50 chance they'll die either way. The Alt-Right and White Supremacists are out there just as the Friends of Humanity are to riot in the name of "genetic purity" and the shriveled steaming pile of regurgitated cheeto vomit doesn't give a flying flip about them or anyone on this planet who doesn't shove their head up his horrendous ass. It's infuriating that we're still here in the same place. That the people in power claim they act in the best interest of the people, but really only give a shnikt about who's signing their checks. If anything I want the X-Men writers to dig deeper, to be more controversial and take a firm stand against the bigotry and hatred that continues to boil over. Cyclops and his team were setting out with a hit list of evil doers, but they're sitting ducks with the same in-fighting between Cyke and Logan that we've seen for yeeeeeears. They should've both stayed dead so a real leader could take the reigns and either steer the X-Men toward their ultimate goal of peace or stand against the administration by any means necessary. I was hoping that would've been Jean, but she's stuck in X-Man's godawful alternate reality.

I personally really enjoy what Uncanny X-Men was doing with the X-Men gone. We haven't seen that kind of darkness in a long time, and it was nice to see a return. The allegory for prejudice certainly hasn't lost its footing, it just shifted from being specifically about race to being a much broader idea of prejudice. In the case of the X-Men, one way it could really be improved is if they focus on the connections instead of the overall.

I, for one, want to see more of the Avengers/X-Men conflict. The fact that the Avengers are not very good at standing up for mutants was never fully confronted, and the only people who brought it up--Scott, Emma, recently Wolverine (Finally!)--haven't been heard either due to being written as the villains or simply due to Marvel being unwilling to make the Avengers bigger jerks. Personally, I would love for a broader focus on the institutional aspect of the prejudice rather than the specific people. Like back when Alex tried to remove the word "mutant" from common vernacular. Show the Avengers trying to help, but in doing so actually making things worse, like when Tony was trying to pressure the X-Men into Registering.

But at the same time, I also think it would be good for the X-Men to step a bit away from the real-world metaphor and carve their own path. One plotline I would love to see resurrected was the one from New X-Men, where Beast discovered that humanity was destined to die out soon. Why not have that information get out to the public? I think this idea of impeding doom could make for some interesting stories as humanity surges to find a solution and all the different paths they would take--some would try to become mutants, some might try to become other things, some would deny it, and some would seek mutual genocide.

I don't know not have Extermination evens all the time. Let them have FUN adventures again.

Some may hate the idea but I say put the Xmen in their own universe. That's what will make the hatred of mutants make more sense. Especially if they are seen as dangerous. Even make mutation something that can be fatal at puberty somewhat like the terrigen stuff or like in the Darkest Minds series.

@hawk2916: I agree, Avengers and X-Men universes always are akward when combined imo. And could create shared buzz for both franchises to have them seperate and eventually build to a shared universe AvX down the road. Could even use Deadpool with his 4th wall shit, and/or Scarlet Witch reality warping to integrate it...

Funny I created that thread and almost forgot about it. The responses are few but I can work with that :p

lol "SJW" (I really hate the term, those clowns aren't "warriors" and there's no "social justice" anywhere close) would probably call Xmen "uncle tom" and will side with the Brotherhood justifying their shit because "colonialism" or something. If we're being reflective here.

The prejudice didn't birth the Xmen, it was laziness of the writers and the atom age actually. But let's not get too technical in here since one of the reasons they became legendary where the themes... when they were adapted suitably. I won't deny that, but I will insist it's rarely so since a long time ago.

Yes it's 100% stale, but even more so forced 'cause when superpowered godlings and models are somehow supposed to become stand ins for unreasonably marginalized minorities one should ask oneself if it even fits. Because you know, if you think that minority experiences is equivalent to mutant experiences you also admit that minorities are dangerous since mutants are. It's that simple. To be clear, let's talk about that (shitty) Uncanny you mentioned because it illustrates another absurd trend that I hope dies as soon as possible. Let's talk about the Wolfsbane debacle. Let's talk about how it took an ignorant farceur to draw some parallels that simply don't exist devolved and ridiculed a character that faced frost giants, demons, gods, killing machines and ate her effing dad alive, but non of this all of a sudden was relevant because a couple of flatscans could beat the shit out of her and she wouldn't even resist because odious allegory was supposed to be shoved there in spite of all character integrity that has been established for decades. It made no sense to the character, it had nothing to do with common sense at all. But hey, the farceur wanted to show how woke he's. Common sense isn't part of the equation I guess. How about that time when Pixie came out of some mutant club to only be attacked by masked thugs with... baseball bats... They came to beat the mutants... with baseball bats. Those mutants whose containment is known to the public to be the goddamn giant killer robots... but they came in with baseball bats... because it is so "woke". How many times do these nonsensical attempts to draw allegories need to fail miserably until one finally gets it isn't working? There could be a poignant discussion about humanism, human nature and human condition with the elements that are drawn out of the minority struggles done CAREFULLY and mindfully like Claremont had with Genosha, God Loves Man Kills or most of the origins of the characters he wrote, but the aforementioned debacles? I'd rather not see these themes getting so moronic ever again than read these painful failures. You went into numbers of police/blacks (as if police officers can't be black, oh America...) encounters. Let me tell you about the statistics I found out. The majority of violent crimes in US are committed by blacks and that black policemen are more likely to shoot a black person. Should we talk about it? Yes, Alt Right and White Pride are dangerous, as are Antifa and Nation of Islam who are all part of big radical zealotry in different forms and practiced by different people. Yes let's be controversial, let's talk about multiple occasions of minority crime being covered up by the officials and media in Europe as well.

Humanity, as a whole in most forms and ideologies, is full of shit. That's what Xmen should be about, not some text books from a certain political wing.

I feel like a good way to put them at the spotlight again is to have like an Avengers and X-Men crossover.

See Jonathan Hickman

@matvelbo77: @firestarlord73194: Hickman did handle the prejudice issue rather well, all things considered. After so long and with no progress, it is nice to see that humanity isn’t gonna get the free pass anymore.

I am sick of the prejudice issue. there really is no difference between someone like spiderman and them. they both are genetically altered. it's just that spiderman is altered by a freak accident (or was chosen by the some totem) and mutants were born that way. this powers of X story line is rehashing a lot of stuff that has been done countless times. they also have literal gods running around. there is no way the public at large would see mutants as something different than other super powered beings. they can write actual stories where people are being discriminated against. they have a few minority super heroes. use some of them for stories of discrimination.

@christianrapper: Huh yeah, what if everyone was against Thor?

Yes and no. The idea of someone like Purifiers or Friends of Humanity who specifically don't tolerate mutants because they KNOW who they are and what they mean for humanity at large, makes sense.

Actually, if you think about it, Purifiers are interesting. If we delve into Judeo-Christian dogmas, there are some radical rules regarding idols, who are basically all fancy pantheons members running around and that includes all favorite Thor. Someone like him being so beloved should make zealots far more threatened than random powers because he actually hears prayers which means it's a divine competition. But then, in case of Purifiers specifically we've got a very biased zealot who twisted the narrative to persecute mutants specifically so it doesn't feel otherworldly at all. There's just a case for other kinds of anti-super people Purifier kind.

Islamists would use mutants as natural born suiciders most likely. "Allah has blessed you for a reason, brother."

mutants were relevant during jim lee days because sales were up. we should all do our share. buy x-titles and be active in forums

Again alot of the "staleness" can be solved by a seperate universe. Then all the issues can be properly explored and not the way it has been mentioned in recent issues like the whole Wolfsbane thing. While racism and discrimination still exist the more recent writers of Xmen books have not done a great job of allegory. And as someone else mentioned the whole argument makes absolutely no sense when we Thors and Hulks and Spidermen running around too. Hickman with his posthumansim angle has done a great job of adding to the narrative and explaining the hatred but it would make even more sense in a whole other universe

I still argue there's place for mutant metaphor even with mutates, aliens and gods around. It just doesn't have to be so forced and blunt. Mutants are dangerous, they are also integral evolutionary path. If politics influence the narrative so much it least make it so it challenges the worse in both left and right.

I agree.....sort of.

There is a lot of loopholes in the explanation, for instance, characters like the Fantastic Four and some of the Avengers are celebrities and well known to the public, also, a lot of Avengers aren't really superhuman and are just normal humans that are extremely skilled or have some gimmick like Iron Man, Falcon, Black Knight etc. Even characters like Luke Cage, Daredevil, and Spider Woman have very low level, just above human abilities.

The problem lies with over saturation. In a time like the 70s or 80s the mutant panic would have made sense when there wasn't that many characters for the public to worry about, but, in the modern day there is thousands of superhuman characters both hero and villain floating around that likely outnumber mutants 10 to 1, and that's not even counting the Inhumans and the "NuHumans" debacle. So, it really is pretty nonsensical that for every Sabertooth floating out there in the ether there is like 7 Green Goblin spin offs and people would be worried about the cat man.

The light...

There is a lot of loopholes in the explanation, for instance, characters like the Fantastic Four and some of the Avengers are celebrities and well known to the public, also, a lot of Avengers aren't really superhuman and are just normal humans that are extremely skilled or have some gimmick like Iron Man, Falcon, Black Knight etc. Even characters like Luke Cage, Daredevil, and Spider Woman have very low level, just above human abilities.

Sure. I've seen people making comparisons like there are those who like Michael Jordan and Beyonce, but try to stay distant from minorities in real life. I think in early Spiderman comics there was a time they somewhat crossed those narratives of spider and mutant menaces, like maybe he's one of those muties? If only it was so consistent for all of Marvel history. Or there are also those who simply say it's all fine since "racism doesn't make sense", which I find to be just cute but totally ignorant. I guess those don't even know Nazis tried to justify their crap with "racial theories". There are different kinds of xenophobia in general.

To streamline the narrative, there's must be a clear understanding of what kind xenophobia mutants represent at the given moment. And the most important idea to never simply devolve them into that narrow narrative alone.

The problem lies with over saturation. In a time like the 70s or 80s the mutant panic would have made sense when there wasn't that many characters for the public to worry about, but, in the modern day there is thousands of superhuman characters both hero and villain floating around that likely outnumber mutants 10 to 1, and that's not even counting the Inhumans and the "NuHumans" debacle. So, it really is pretty nonsensical that for every Sabertooth floating out there in the ether there is like 7 Green Goblin spin offs and people would be worried about the cat man.

It's all about the execution at this point.

• Would humans fear being replaced as the dominant species? Sure.
• Should they even look at it this way when it's their children we are talking about? Depends on who is funding and feeding the narrative.
• Would anyone profit from tensions between walking WMDs and addicted to comfort casuals? A question of just how much.
• Could a clerical maniac twist the words of god to turn parents against their own children? I guess if he himself already did.
• Would an unprecedented arms race begin if the enemy is said to be that of biblical proportions? Pretty obvious.

Here I see narratives that can, or already did, fittingly explore items like corruption, escalation, manipulation, mass hysteria, pushing of interests though the means of media, religion, evolution, tribalism. In any variable possible and then some.

Unlike most of hysterical X-fans, I always saw an opportunity in NuHumans. To me it was actually pretty fascinating. Having people randomly develop extratalents and be vaguely classified because of some genetic deviation with an X-title, as opposed to those who actually belong to an ancient and still functioning (not so much at that point, but you know what I mean) regime and society, was a perfect contrast to develop superpowered drama around poor sapiens. I even had an idea I called "District XI" where Bishop and Nur (a NuHuman ex policeman) would become partners to deal with competing mutant and Inhuman gangs who I based on Aryan Brotherhood (mutants) and Mara Salvatrucha (Inhumans) for reasons I think are pretty clear.

@adamtrmm:

The light...

Wha....??

Sure. I've seen people making comparisons like there are those who like Michael Jordan and Beyonce, but try to stay distant from minorities in real life. I think in early Spiderman comics there was a time they somewhat crossed those narratives of spider and mutant menaces, like maybe he's one of those muties? If only it was so consistent for all of Marvel history. Or there are also those who simply say it's all fine since "racism doesn't make sense", which I find to be just cute but totally ignorant. I guess those don't even know Nazis tried to justify their crap with "racial theories". There are different kinds of xenophobia in general.

Eh, I'll get banned if put opinions about this kind of stuff, lol.

To streamline the narrative, there's must be a clear understanding of what kind xenophobia mutants represent at the given moment. And the most important idea to never simply devolve them into that narrow narrative alone.

Well, my understanding is that people don't like mutants because some of them could potentially cripple a country within a day by themselves, or their powers could manifest and they could hurt someone without knowing how to use them, which is actually kind of a consistent thing with mutants powers over the years.

Here I see narratives that can, or already did, fittingly explore items like corruption, escalation, manipulation, mass hysteria, pushing of interests though the means of media, religion, evolution, tribalism. In any variable possible and then some.

I get that humanity evolving into mutants (which doesn't make sense) is considered canon now, but it's dumb. They were better as just a hiccup in the human strain or at least there existence being a mystery. Originally they were supposed to be tied to the Atomic Age and radiations mutating people's dna and their kids coming out messed up. Hence, "The Children of the Atom". I've also liked the idea that Apocalypse was a genetic anomaly and because he was a conquerer, like Genghis Kahn, he has many descendants that all carry the potential for mutation and are activated through heightened emotional stress. I think that was Louise Simonson's idea.

Unlike most of hysterical X-fans, I always saw an opportunity in NuHumans. To me it was actually pretty fascinating. Having people randomly develop extratalents and be vaguely classified because of some genetic deviation with an X-title, as opposed to those who actually belong to an ancient and still functioning (not so much at that point, but you know what I mean) regime and society, was a perfect contrast to develop superpowered drama around poor sapiens. I even had an idea I called "District XI" where Bishop and Nur (a NuHuman ex policeman) would become partners to deal with competing mutant and Inhuman gangs who I based on Aryan Brotherhood (mutants) and Mara Salvatrucha (Inhumans) for reasons I think are pretty clear.

Yeah, well, that's cool but I was making a point of there being sooo many super humans that the "mutant metaphor" as facile as it is already, would make even less sense. I also thought most of the Nuhumans were pretty derivative as well "This is fire guy, and this here super strong guy" etc. I liked the blind guy with the dog though. I also have always disliked the concept of all mutants banning together just because they're mutants concept as well, that's another wannabe "minority" allegory that's poorly handled. I mean India is full of Indians, and those mofos all just don't magically get along just because they're the same thing. There would definitely be racial and ethnic divisions among X-Men but Marvel can't deal with stuff like that, or at least if they are racist in any way shape or form they have to be psychotic monsters that are foaming at the mouth with hatred, well, the racist white dudes are, if you're a racist black you get featured in a series written by Taneshi Coates. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@cattlebattle:

Eh, I'll get banned if put opinions about this kind of stuff, lol.

Wanna talk about racial theories? loool

Well, my understanding is that people don't like mutants because some of them could potentially cripple a country within a day by themselves, or their powers could manifest and they could hurt someone without knowing how to use them, which is actually kind of a consistent thing with mutants powers over the years.

But that's not the only sentiment in universe. And that's where we come pointing out it's unreasonable to hate on Jean Grey while wanking Sue Storm and Ms. Marvel IF it's just about superpowers. And it's also no different from occasional alien invasion or any other superhero brawl that leaves shit wrecked as far as regular Joe should be concerned. So that's where certain narratives should get into details to enrich and explore those happening and how they affect current discourses, mentalities and as hipsters love to put it "culture".

Even without other superheroes and superpals, I don't think that's all there is for mutants. Shit, casuals worship Kim Kardashians and Brad Pitts. Think about them with supercool powers. They would be a new living pantheon. And every pantheon has its dark, less attractive gods if not demons and devils.

I get that humanity evolving into mutants (which doesn't make sense) is considered canon now, but it's dumb. They were better as just a hiccup in the human strain or at least there existence being a mystery. Originally they were supposed to be tied to the Atomic Age and radiations mutating people's dna and their kids coming out messed up. Hence, "The Children of the Atom". I've also liked the idea that Apocalypse was a genetic anomaly and because he was a conquerer, like Genghis Kahn, he has many descendants that all carry the potential for mutation and are activated through heightened emotional stress. I think that was Louise Simonson's idea.

It makes sense in a universe where superpowers are a universal constant. Children of the Atom worked as prototypical theory, but it evolved since then. Works just as well "scientifically" speaking lol Eh I think all mutants being Apoc's descendant is pretty narrow. I like it more as a natural mass phenomena. Apoc was just a standard deviation.

Yeah, well, that's cool but I was making a point of there being sooo many super humans that the "mutant metaphor" as facile as it is already, would make even less sense. I also thought most of the Nuhumans were pretty derivative as well "This is fire guy, and this here super strong guy" etc. I liked the blind guy with the dog though. I also have always disliked the concept of all mutants banning together just because they're mutants concept as well, that's another wannabe "minority" allegory that's poorly handled. I mean India is full of Indians, and those mofos all just don't magically get along just because they're the same thing. There would definitely be racial and ethnic divisions among X-Men but Marvel can't deal with stuff like that, or at least if they are racist in any way shape or form they have to be psychotic monsters that are foaming at the mouth with hatred, well, the racist white dudes are, if you're a racist black you get featured in a series written by Taneshi Coates. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And I was pointing out that even forced, mandated shit can bring in some interesting developments. I never considered that an option, but then these NuHumans became a thing and it occurred to me that the idea isn't irredeemable and can be properly dealt with. At this point, I don't even believe you can come up with creative superpowers. It's been done to death. Shit, there's a superpowers wikia and some shit made my eyes roll. If that's where they go because everything is so overdone, then it's pretty sad. Or you could of course go the Morrison route and create Ugly Johns, Longnecks, Necklips and all those other imbecilic concepts instead.

Mutants being forced or simply willing to create alliances over their tribal features is as natural as it gets, but the idea everyone will fall in line is of course nuts. And not everyone does so it's all fine to me. I totally agree, it's time to explore mutant classicism. There are Jean Grey and Magnetos, and there are Nightcrawlers and Beasts. In a theoretical flatscan free future, we pretty much understand who are the creme de la creme, and who are the plebeians just by classifications alone. If mutants don't advance themselves ideologically and spiritually, they are bound to repeat the same mistakes sapiens did in forming their imperfect societies. And that's my friend is why I think mutant metaphor is fascinating. It's just I don't see anyone of the current wave of "creators" who aren't devolving that into some woke crap textbook.

Actually, seeing mutants on Krakoa fight over ideological baggage from their homelands could also be pretty cool. Say, Indian and Pakistani, Israeli and Palestinian, I dunno, American and Russian, some would learn to look at the future, others will hold grudges. About white racists, I remember there were dark skinned Purifiers. At least in the 2000s it wasn't as unthinkable.

@adamtrmm: Nevermind dude. I wrote this big long response to the things you said and when I went back to quote them the toolbar disappeared, so then I had to refresh the page while copying what I wrote, then the first line of what I copied disappeared, so I had to copy that and refreshed it and everything I wrote was gone. I gave up .This site sucks.

@cattlebattle:

Understandable. I'd like to read your points, we have made it pretty much a habit with these long replies heh. In your free time, as the saying goes.

To put it bluntly the X-men or more specific the mythos works far better without the Marvel U. As others have stated it doesn't make sense for mutants to be hated when gamma powered, deities, mystic, cosmic, scientific accident, and many more walk casually amongst the masses as celebrities. What's more how can they tell the difference for example someone like say goofballs could easily lie he wasn't a mutant and received his powers via accident. The point being writers of today have overused the mutant hysteria plot threads that have contributed to the X-mens stagnation pre-Hickman while ignoring the elephant in the room of a shared universe. Add to that whenever the X-men do crossover it leads to shit comics like Avengers vs x-men, onslaught, x-men vs inhumans, uncanny Avengers, and terrible OOC interactions just to boost ego or cheap tension of drama. The X-men haven proven through movies, TV and cartoons they can work without a shared universe time and time again. They have the abundance of characters mutant and humans, aliens, mystical, international heroes and teams and political relevance to stand on there own. Besides X-fans have expressed how much they hated the crossovers, its a win-win for both parties.

Yeah, I'll just have to number points like Koays does, if you try to do specific quotes the site goes haywire. It's actually been like that for years, but, I just had more of a problem that time.