Originally Phoenix was just a codename for Jean's full power until the whole Jamaica Bay retcon.

I use to like the Phoenix Force when I first saw it on the 90s animated series. However, I grew to dislike it as I actually started reading X-Men comics. Because of how it had such a messing history that kind of made no sense because it went through tons of retcon over the years and just seems like a plot device.

Yes, me.

However, I like most of Claremont's original concepts for things. Guy had creative ideas.

I think PF was supposed to be a Cosmic power similar to Power Cosmic that Jean and her descendants can access. It makes sense if you consider Rachel Summers was given PF by Claremont before the Jamaica Bay retcon

Claremont wrote the bible on X-Men so yes

I always wished it had been explained better and not just as some cosmic force but whatever it is what it is. It's certainly been overused and done to death

I love the thought of having a cosmic force behind the x-men. Avengers have sentry,

Sersi, thor, doctor strange and wanda...

The X-Men just needs jean

@rhino999: That actually was stated to be the case in End of Greys, which was by Claremont.

Does teen jean know that rachel is her daughter? She said in trial of jean grey that she is last of her kind.

Why didnt gladiator just send someone to assassinate jean and again, rachel?

You do realize that order to assassinate Greys in the first place was issued not by Gladiator?

Yes. But he wanted to kill her. He even personally attacked her knowing that she is a less powerful teenage girl.

@darthphoenix: The avengers have more top tiers but the xmen have more characters with a bunch of hax

I actually like the Force. Hell, I even like the ill-defined Morrison's multiversal Phoenix Corps. That's where I'd pick up, clearing up and exploring this one...

Yeah, that is still Claremont's concept. I liked it originally. The Phoenix didn't become overused until the 2000s. There was some good stories with it in the 80s.

I love the Phoenix just don't like how it has been used. Once Jean was dead it seemed Marvel was trying to make it something that could be used by anybody. AVX took a dump on the Phoenix as soon as it ignored that Emma was already established not to be a suitable host in Endsong, while creating Hope with a perfectly good Rachel around.

I like both concepts. On the one hand, it shows Jean as someone who evolved from weakest member to the most powerful member and was metaphorical for her rising from the ashes. Alternatively, it was a good chance for ridding Jean of the consequences, a little lazy, bit good way to bring her back. Also, it introduced a new relationship that ties everything together. That of Jean and the Forces relationship with each other. She hates it, it learns things it never felt before, she begins to understand it later on, and throughout the history, we see a connection so close, they are nearly indistinguishable from one another, the moment Jean's powers arise.

@lordofallhumans: From AvX onward, agreed.

@invain: Aka late 2000's.

@adamtrmm: Agreed.

@darthphoenix: That too. Actually, that was the whole reason Claremont amped Jean. To give the X-Men's answer to Thor. Little did anyone know, she would become the most powerful character amongst the superhero teams, one of the most feared being in the universe (above even Galactus), and one of the most powerful entities in the Marvel multi verse (her ranking still debated to this day).

I really like the idea.

I like the idea of the PF but not the way it's being handled. I blame lazy editors for not calling out bad writing. The whole Jean is the PF thing and it belongs to her is just... yeah. Seriously. A multi universal force that existed since before time began has been just hanging around waiting for one human girl to be born to take ownership of it? Ugh.

Lots of ways to fix it of course. But the problem is even if you make substantial changes all it would take is another low IQ mouth breathing writer to come in and screw everything up again by keeping Jean and the PF attached at the hip.

@ashetdust: i think marvel ruined the pf thing when they gave it to hope. Everyone got excited for jean's return when they announced 2nd coming and everything went downhill after they announced that hope is not jean.

The Phoenix force doesn't always wait for the right earth girl. It sponteaniously chooses anyone it thinks is interesting.

It chose jean because of her sacrifice and willpower and power.

It chose rachel because her kindred soul is so much like jean's.

It came to emma because it wanted Scott's love, just like jean did.

AsheTDust yes, the Phoenix is an abstract entity that it is not included in war of celetial gods...infinity gauntlet etc.

The gods even protect phoenix because everything will cease to exist when the phoenix dies or is erased from existence

@ashetdust: To be fair, this has been a concept where the Phoenix belongs to Jean for a long time. Ever since Jean met death. It is why Rachel is also called the one true Phoenix. Because it is the right of Jean Grey and her descendants to become Phoenix.

@darthphoenix: I think they ruined it when AvX came along. Hope Summers seemed like for all intents and purposes related to Jean Grey in some way. They never addressed it because different writers got a handle on it, ultimately ending on the worst writer.

It is a good concept, just over used.