@adamtrmm:
I know the history of how his powers evolved probably better than most on this forum. I'm like one of the only people who gave him some credibility on battleforums despite his jobber reputation. I mean, under Simonson he was somewhat physical guy with teleportation, shapeshifting and armor. He was clearly superhuman, but nowhere on the level of Thor for example. HE sadly is one of the most inconsistent characters in terms of power levels. One day he battles Galan, other fight Iron Man equally. I think Loki reached his top when Gillen took over JMS. He made him almost Mephisto level. He was somewhat Doom level before that I think? Gotta tell you, I feel rusty talking about power levels now that I don't do battle forums anymore lol but I do remember the impressions of my researches. Anyway, that instance with Bolt and Cyclops? It was written by Lee and Portacio and plotted by Claremont. They kind of upgraded him and he used beams for the first time while being bonded to some wild machinery that had infant Cable attached to him to. I think that's where his energy projection and technopathy was introduced first. Rise of Apocalypse is where he manifested size alteration. Only then he would be depicted as a superphysical being that can restrain Hulk (under PAD) and smash Ikaris. Remender than gave the Celestial armor a meaning and made him even bigger physical powerhouse when he smacked Thor around. Point is, it wasn't like that since day one.
That said, whoever came up with the idea of him being degenerating all while being an immortal molecule manipulator needs to never touch comic books, or write in general
I was specifically talking about the 80s/cartoon version. I am well aware that Apocalypse became absolute chump sauce after this with all his "healing chambers' and crap like that. That's sort of what my thread was about.
I think you have some of that wrong as well, I know he was able to alter his size when he battled Loki, and I could be wrong but I think he did it before that as well in X-Factor, he definitely does it in the battle against X-Factor and the Inhumans. As for things like teleportation, I again could be wrong but I think that was originally linked to his technology and his Ship then it was a natural, inherent ability for him.
I really hate how Apocalypse, like Sinister, was just given every power over time. Like I dislike how they gave him ability to just "project energy". He basically is just shooting lasers from his hands like a Saturday morning cartoon villain, which he ironically wound being considering X-Men TAS used to come on Saturday mornings haha. I would of just liked more consistency, he could have to use his shape shifting to form a canon on his hand, which he has done before, and use to emit a low level Celestial type energy beam that could effect characters like Thor and Hulk, and the larger he makes himself the more potent it becomes.
I don't know, I feel like I could rewrite an entire powerset entry on how Apocalypse "should function".
Well, Darwinism is a retroactive concept of sorts. It covers the principle of how things were before the idea itself was fleshed so we just call it "Darwinism" because he's the one to articulate it. We don't mean as Apoc is a direct follower of that idea. He had it long before Darwin was even born. Same way Quasar or Adam Warlock aren't followers of Einstein ;) (I know it's different, but it was still funny to mention)
That's why I think having ancient system that defied and prevented the course of nature in having superhuman reproduction would be interesting. That would also explain why Eternals/Deviants and Inhumans were so uninvolved/isolated and it would also bind Nur to bigger Marvel Universe which I totally want to see.
I also find that interesting that it's the thinkers that are responsible for human progress more so than great warriors or "heroes". Survival of the fittest, and nowadays the fittest is the smartest. But we do have supergeniuses achieving godhood in comics, so it also plays a role.
I am aware of the original tenants of Darwinism, I am however talking about how it would be applied to someone who has been around for thousands of years and has seen all civilizations rise and fall and how it further be applied to a world with superhumans floating around. Darwin was just a dude who lived for a couple of decades in a time when not all modern science was known yet. Apocalypse has witnessed all this stuff first hand. Surely the ideologies would not be uniform.
I think it's not mutually exclusive. The idea of unchecked evolution does suggest the same thing. It's just needs to be contextualized properly. For example, when species are getting too accustomed to the comfort zone, they slowly die out. And it is being reflected in our age. Look at the West where people don't want to have children because they've become too hedonistic and how foreign cultures slowly take over them because of how defenseless they've become thanks to the same comfort zone they are so desperately trying to maintain. But I guess a writer that actually discusses matters like this will get kicked out soundly. So the stuff will be there behind the lines if at all
Well, we could discuss the decline of "western people" people in another conversation if you want as I have a lot to say about that, lol, however, I personally think it's more than just affluence that is leading to their death spiral. You're not wrong about the hedonism though. Some people blame the absence of religion but I don't know, I think people are inherently religious and have just swapped out divine beliefs for social beliefs, instead of being worried about being judged by a higher power people are worried about being judged by other people on Twitter or whatever....anyways, different conversation altogether. I do understand what you are talking about when it pertains to evolution though though I don't think it's absolute.
. And I prefer Sinister that way. He isn't generic, I mean, can you name characters like him? In the mutant context, genetics obsessed madman is a must the way I see it. And talented guys made wonders with him. Gillen and Sinister System comes to mind.
Can I name a comic villain obsessed with genetics?? Lol. All of them pretty much can dabble in genetics to some extent: Dr Doom, Dock Ock to an extent, Modok, Caps old Nazi villains always had genetic experiments, etc. When it comes to villains that were specifically related to be being evil geneticists then you have the tier of the Jackal from Spider-Man, Maximus the Mad, and of course, The High Evolutionary. Then when it comes to specific X-men villains that can "do" genetics you have Magneto, who created the Savage Land Mutates, Mojo, Apocalypse, even Sebastian Shaw was obsessed with harnessing the mutant genome for profit. Anyways, Sinister can still do genetics and be cloner and all that, I just wish they have kept his mystical stuff intact as well. I believe he was supposed to be the X-men's version of Dr Doom anyways considering his name and and affinity for science and sorcerery.
Speaking of evil ageless child, I wonder if Gaiman introduced Sprite in his Eternals short run based off of this idea or was it something else? Is there a famous myth/folklore/story like that that I'm not familiar with?
While I am not familiar with The Eternals story I imagine one of the influences is possibly Peter Pan, though, he isn't evil, there probably is some example out there pertaining to old European folklore like nymphs or sprites or something which can sometimes be represented as children in some depictions.
Log in to comment