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    Wonder Woman

    Character » Wonder Woman appears in 8805 issues.

    The Amazon princess, blessed with god-like super abilities, Wonder Woman is one of Earth's most powerful defenders of peace, justice, and equality and a member of the Justice League. She is considered an archetype for many heroines outside of comic book. Her initial origin depicted her as a clay baby brought to life by patron goddess Aphrodite, but in recent years she has been depicted as the daughter of Zeus and Amazon queen Hippolyta.

    WW Rebirth #4 ***spoilers***

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    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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    This was a 9 out of 10 for me, great issue! The only reason I'm not giving it a 10 is because Diana's bullets & bracelets scene happened off panel.

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    alsummers

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    #2  Edited By alsummers

    @scorpio_cassadine: Yeah, I didn't really strike that as an issue until you mentioned it. I get why it was left out (we get the picture from Io and the other Amazon's test) but it would've offered some nice dynamics between Hippolyta shooting her own daughter and Diana's skills.

    That aside, I love how Diana can clearly communicate with a stranger based on emotion alone. It's evident she doesn't understand what he is saying, but she knows what he is feeling.

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    Archizooom

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    #3  Edited By Archizooom

    The artwork is beautiful and sumptuous, what a shame we're only getting 6 of these, Nicola Scott is on fire. I was beyond happy to see the Amazons repair and retrofit the plane with invisible tech, I thoroughly enjoyed this issue. If anything I would've liked more pathos when Hippolyta bid her daughter farewell

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    Archizooom

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    #4  Edited By Archizooom

    Here's an interview with Nicola Scott for Polygon

    http://www.polygon.com/comics/2016/8/10/12402548/wonder-woman-rebirth

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    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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    Here's an interview with Nicola Scott for Polygon

    http://www.polygon.com/comics/2016/8/10/12402548/wonder-woman-rebirth

    I was coming here to post this lol so it seems we're getting more Amazon "tech" eventually, I loved what they did to the plane. If they've elevated every science to a fine art I'm sure they have unseen ways to protect themselves. This is great!

    I also dug what Nicola said about iconography, I hope the statue of the Amazon carved into the cliff becomes a staple in every depiction of Themyscira. It's as cool as Dr. Strange's Seal of the Vishanti window on his Sanctum Sanctorum, Batman's giant penny, Titan's Tower or the Birds of Prey's clock.

    I guess they didn't really need to show Diana deflecting bullets, because the most memorable scene from Perez's version

    No Caption Provided

    Was sort of recreated and paid homage to here...

    No Caption Provided

    Also did anyone else notice that Sofia was wearing a headband like the ones in the tv show's version of the contest? That was a nice touch that made me smile.

    No Caption Provided

    I also liked how everyone was wearing their own unadorned Wonder Woman uniform.

    This was the definitive retelling of the origin, anything is possible now, the sky is the limit from here.

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    HandOfPrometheus

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    Loved this issue. The change of Diana not sneaking into the games didn't bother me too much but I love when the Amazons were examining the guns and meddling with technology. Still miss blonde Hippolyta.

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    alsummers

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    I also like that although they did not quite understand modern weaponry, they weren't depicted as out of touch barbarians fiddling around with dangerous things. They clearly seem to understand science and the scientific method and are careful to use their science and knowledge to adapt. It just shows the Amazons' intelligence regardless of their unfamiliarity, something that has been lacking in recent renditions of that race.

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    Outside_85

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    #8  Edited By Outside_85

    To be honest, I am actually very close to dropping this half of the story if it continues down this particular path of ripping off Perez. Something badly needs to happen to connect it to the Sharp-drawn part of the story or something to differentiate it from the one we've known for almost 30 years.

    Anyways, regarding the issue itself... still looks very nice, and I quite like how the Amazons went about examining and analysing everything. What I don't get however is why they are in shock and awe over a regular pistol (that hasn't really changed it's basic design in hundreds of years) when they can pick apart and reassemble a crashed airplane into working order and apparently improve it. The contest however felt kinda pointless, and despite the repeated consequences of winning it, it didn't have the weight of Diana sneaking in to win and then unmask in front of her mother in 1986. (Quite likely this feeling is undone by the fact that we know the exile is a myth). And I dont know, but I kinda feel like we are getting handed a simpletons version of mystiqe when the gods allied with the Amazons are constantly referred to as 'Patrons', names only given to 2 who are not, and the Lasso getting a pompus new name.

    In summary: I felt this was an issue meant as fan-service only, it goes nowhere new, changes nothing and adds nothing to any overhanging story... which is still some vague situation, the true nature of which, we know little to nothing about... Diana can't find Olympus and cant find Themyscira, thats about all we know at this point.

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    GrandWonder

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    I hope they make it clear whether the Amazons are superhumans or not or this would just be like the Perez era where she won the contests because she's got way better physical stats.

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    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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    To be honest, I am actually very close to dropping this half of the story if it continues down this particular path of ripping off Perez. Something badly needs to happen to connect it to the Sharp-drawn part of the story or something to differentiate it from the one we've known for almost 30 years.

    Anyways, regarding the issue itself... still looks very nice, and I quite like how the Amazons went about examining and analysing everything. What I don't get however is why they are in shock and awe over a regular pistol (that hasn't really changed it's basic design in hundreds of years) when they can pick apart and reassemble a crashed airplane into working order and apparently improve it. The contest however felt kinda pointless, and despite the repeated consequences of winning it, it didn't have the weight of Diana sneaking in to win and then unmask in front of her mother in 1986. (Quite likely this feeling is undone by the fact that we know the exile is a myth). And I dont know, but I kinda feel like we are getting handed a simpletons version of mystiqe when the gods allied with the Amazons are constantly referred to as 'Patrons', names only given to 2 who are not, and the Lasso getting a pompus new name.

    In summary: I felt this was an issue meant as fan-service only, it goes nowhere new, changes nothing and adds nothing to any overhanging story... which is still some vague situation, the true nature of which, we know little to nothing about... Diana can't find Olympus and cant find Themyscira, thats about all we know at this point.

    Loading Video...

    Womp WaaaaaaAAAhhhhhhhhhhh.....

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    Outside_85

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    Squalleon

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    Scott's art is magnificent in this. I really believe the colorist does wonders for her work.

    As for the story....eh. How many times are we gonna see the origin in the course of a year? And this particular one doesn't have anything new going for it.

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    alsummers

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    To those complaining/disappointed in another origin story, need I remind you that this is to go back and embrace what was loved about Wonder Woman pre-crisis. Without straightening those things out, we'd still be under the assumption that Amazons are nasty people that Wonder Woman wanted to escape from (which does not all make sense if she desperately wants to find her home)

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    Outside_85

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    To those complaining/disappointed in another origin story, need I remind you that this is to go back and embrace what was loved about Wonder Woman pre-crisis. Without straightening those things out, we'd still be under the assumption that Amazons are nasty people that Wonder Woman wanted to escape from (which does not all make sense if she desperately wants to find her home)

    To which I would point out the supposed nastyness of the Amazons towards Diana is greatly exaggerated, because it only ever came from one single Amazon: Aleka.

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    deactivated-599b4bc7465db

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    Im excited to see where this goes. by far the best issue we've had yet and so refreshing after the past five or so years of stuff that we've gotten

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    deactivated-599b4bc7465db

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    @alsummers said:

    To those complaining/disappointed in another origin story, need I remind you that this is to go back and embrace what was loved about Wonder Woman pre-crisis. Without straightening those things out, we'd still be under the assumption that Amazons are nasty people that Wonder Woman wanted to escape from (which does not all make sense if she desperately wants to find her home)

    To which I would point out the supposed nastyness of the Amazons towards Diana is greatly exaggerated, because it only ever came from one single Amazon: Aleka.

    i think they mean the amazons becoming murderers, slavers, and rapist which is much nastier than a few teases.

    im for one thankful that mess has been apparently cleaned up

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    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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    Man stop. Y'all are mad because Azzarello's run is being slowly and surely undone, by someone that truly knows how to write Wonder Woman, all while outselling his version and with critical acclaim. I know how that feels, but your "there's nothing new here" complaint is completely false.

    1. We have a modern, young, likeable and well rounded Steve Trevor.

    2. We have patron gods that speak through mysterious portents rather than showing themselves outright.

    3. We have a great new origin for the invisible jet.

    4. We have Amazons with their own brand of advanced technology.

    5. We have a Diana who openly and honestly enters the contest and wins without running roughshod over the other Amazons thanks to the gifts given her at birth.

    6. We bear witness to the creation of the Wonder Woman uniform for the first time ever.

    7. We have a new plausible reason for a gun on Themyscira and the invention of bullets and bracelets.

    8. We have a revered and cherished golden lasso that's treated as a national treasure.

    9. We have a reason Diana can never go home again, that links to the present day story.

    10. We have a new mission for the Amazons as well as for Wonder Woman herself.

    11. We have an air of mystery, heartwarming pathos, new found optimism, hope and a bright new outlook that makes the reader feel emotionally invested and above all joyful.

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    OkRaider88

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    Man stop. Y'all are mad because Azzarello's run is being slowly and surely undone, by someone that truly knows how to write Wonder Woman, all while outselling his version and with critical acclaim. I know how that feels, but your "there's nothing new here" complaint is completely false.

    1. We have a modern, young, likeable and well rounded Steve Trevor.

    2. We have patron gods that speak through mysterious portents rather than showing themselves outright.

    3. We have a great new origin for the invisible jet.

    4. We have Amazons with their own brand of advanced technology.

    5. We have a Diana who openly and honestly enters the contest and wins without running roughshod over the other Amazons thanks to the gifts given her at birth.

    6. We bear witness to the creation of the Wonder Woman uniform for the first time ever.

    7. We have a new plausible reason for a gun on Themyscira and the invention of bullets and bracelets.

    8. We have a revered and cherished golden lasso that's treated as a national treasure.

    9. We have a reason Diana can never go home again, that links to the present day story.

    10. We have a new mission for the Amazons as well as for Wonder Woman herself.

    11. We have an air of mystery, heartwarming pathos, new found optimism, hope and a bright new outlook that makes the reader feel emotionally invested and above all joyful.

    You forgot...

    12. We have intellectual honesty, in that they've done away with the homophobia, and shown the obvious truth that the Amazons of Themyscira were in open lesbian relationships.

    13. Diana LOOKS like her biological mother. Yes, I said biological, because the story of her birth has not been completely retconned yet. Although, you know THAT's coming soon.

    14. Diana is not bullet proof, nor is any other Amazon. Her armor and bracelets are.

    These four issues have me wondering how much of Azarello's run will be flushed down the literary toilet. The Amazons here are immortal, so there is no need for them to kidnap men, have sex with them for children, kill the men, then keep the daughters, and send the boys to be slaves of Hephaestus. Apparently, Dr. Manhattan has been working overtime on his retcon.

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    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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    @scorpio_cassadine said:

    Man stop. Y'all are mad because Azzarello's run is being slowly and surely undone, by someone that truly knows how to write Wonder Woman, all while outselling his version and with critical acclaim. I know how that feels, but your "there's nothing new here" complaint is completely false.

    1. We have a modern, young, likeable and well rounded Steve Trevor.

    2. We have patron gods that speak through mysterious portents rather than showing themselves outright.

    3. We have a great new origin for the invisible jet.

    4. We have Amazons with their own brand of advanced technology.

    5. We have a Diana who openly and honestly enters the contest and wins without running roughshod over the other Amazons thanks to the gifts given her at birth.

    6. We bear witness to the creation of the Wonder Woman uniform for the first time ever.

    7. We have a new plausible reason for a gun on Themyscira and the invention of bullets and bracelets.

    8. We have a revered and cherished golden lasso that's treated as a national treasure.

    9. We have a reason Diana can never go home again, that links to the present day story.

    10. We have a new mission for the Amazons as well as for Wonder Woman herself.

    11. We have an air of mystery, heartwarming pathos, new found optimism, hope and a bright new outlook that makes the reader feel emotionally invested and above all joyful.

    You forgot...

    12. We have intellectual honesty, in that they've done away with the homophobia, and shown the obvious truth that the Amazons of Themyscira were in open lesbian relationships.

    13. Diana LOOKS like her biological mother. Yes, I said biological, because the story of her birth has not been completely retconned yet. Although, you know THAT's coming soon.

    14. Diana is not bullet proof, nor is any other Amazon. Her armor and bracelets are.

    These four issues have me wondering how much of Azarello's run will be flushed down the literary toilet. The Amazons here are immortal, so there is no need for them to kidnap men, have sex with them for children, kill the men, then keep the daughters, and send the boys to be slaves of Hephaestus. Apparently, Dr. Manhattan has been working overtime on his retcon.

    12, 13, and 14 aren't new though

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    Outside_85

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    @scorpio_cassadine: So far nothing of Azzarello's has been outright undone by Rucka (who has built onto it in the odd numbered issues), modified perhaps, but not undone... plus it's so far unlikely to actually be undone since there hasn't been a 'Prime Punch' to explain a sudden massive change.

    5. Which doesn't make any sense unless we are to assume the other Amazons are as powerful as her, which we have never seen them be, or are to assume her powers come from the suit ala the Justice League cartoon origins.

    6. and 7. Both incorrect, it was featured in Perez's run as well... as both were part of or based on Diane Trevor's belongings, plus it provided the reason why Diana carried the name of a Roman goddess.

    9. Which has been disproven so many times in the last 5 years by so many other writers it means nothing.

    i think they mean the amazons becoming murderers, slavers, and rapist which is much nastier than a few teases.

    im for one thankful that mess has been apparently cleaned up

    I would disagree with that since the implied nastyness is connected directly into why Diana ever wanted to leave, she didn't know about the raids before Hephaestus told her about them. But that said, it's a myth anyways, one that was debunked by the Secret Origins story were Diana directly tells us she wanted to leave because she wanted to go on adventures... also if the Amazons were so bad to her, why would Diana ever return once she got away?

    @OkRaider88 said:

    These four issues have me wondering how much of Azarello's run will be flushed down the literary toilet. The Amazons here are immortal, so there is no need for them to kidnap men, have sex with them for children, kill the men, then keep the daughters, and send the boys to be slaves of Hephaestus.

    Apparently, Dr. Manhattan has been working overtime on his retcon.

    Immortality wasn't the reason the Amazons went raiding, Hippolyta was established to have been around for 3000 years, as had the crone in Finch's run, and Hessia made specific mention that she was in fact now aging after leaving the island in SM/WW. Reason they went was to maintain their numbers, which would otherwise only have dwindled over the ages as various gods, monsters and invaders killed them off.

    So far Manhattan hasn't actually done anything other than atomize Pandora, what he did was way back at the end of Flashpoint and has only been studying the results ever since.

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    deactivated-599b4bc7465db

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    @outside_85: people return to abusive/mean families all the time

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    Outside_85

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    @outside_85: people return to abusive/mean families all the time

    Maybe... but do you really think anyone at DC wanted that to be something Diana did? (And still, it's only Aleka who has been nasty towards her)

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    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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    @scorpio_cassadine: So far nothing of Azzarello's has been outright undone by Rucka (who has built onto it in the odd numbered issues), modified perhaps, but not undone... plus it's so far unlikely to actually be undone since there hasn't been a 'Prime Punch' to explain a sudden massive change.

    5. Which doesn't make any sense unless we are to assume the other Amazons are as powerful as her, which we have never seen them be, or are to assume her powers come from the suit ala the Justice League cartoon origins.

    6. and 7. Both incorrect, it was featured in Perez's run as well... as both were part of or based on Diane Trevor's belongings, plus it provided the reason why Diana carried the name of a Roman goddess.

    9. Which has been disproven so many times in the last 5 years by so many other writers it means nothing.

    She crushed her God of War helmet which should have been impossible, Olympus was fake, Hippolyta's not blonde, Azz's story is a lie, at least partially.

    5. make the assumption because this is a new take, on Themyscira she hasn't done anything particularly wondrous that another Amazon couldn't do, she only had more skill

    6. and 7. have entirely different reasons from Perez's version which makes them new, and no you've never seen the actual construction of the costume...ever.

    9. explains why Themyscira can't be found, and no we've never heard that Diana can't return home after leaving, only that she loses her immortality. That's brand new.

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    Outside_85

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    Azz's story is a lie, at least partially.

    She crushed her God of War helmet which should have been impossible,

    Olympus was fake,

    Hippolyta's not blonde,

    5. make the assumption because this is a new take, on Themyscira she hasn't done anything particularly wondrous that another Amazon couldn't do, she only had more skill

    6. and 7. have entirely different reasons from Perez's version which makes them new, and no you've never seen the actual construction of the costume...ever.

    9. explains why Themyscira can't be found, and no we've never heard that Diana can't return home after leaving, only that she loses her immortality. That's brand new.

    Is it? Or perhaps it's this happy memory thats the fake bit? Like in issue 2 we get a brief glimpse of a very different world lurking behind the paradise... and in this issue we get confirmation the Amazons know it's there, so perhaps what we see Nicola drawing is an illusion.

    Anyways, regarding the helmet... as I have said before, no where do we have any confirmation that the helmet Strife gave Diana, the one she smashed, is the same helmet Hephaestus made or Ares wore. We dont know where Strife got it from, we dont know if she has access to Ares' home, if it even exists after his death or if the helmet was ever in there. Moreover there is further issues with how Finch had Diana magically summon both the real helmet and the feathered cloak (which noone provided her) out of nothing and at will. And most damning of all... Ares wore his when he returned from the dead.

    Or Olympus has moved... which would not be the first time... infact, didn't this exact same thing happen during Rucka's previous run? Or was that someone else where the Gods forgot to provide the Amazons with enough power to not all turn into clay statues? And as for Paradise Island being lost... eh, well, Circe sent the whole thing into another dimension, the Amazons themselves withdrew it into another one, and there's ofc the time when the entire island was wiped off the map and later replaced. Point being that Themyscira's moving around has been done plenty of times before... whats missing right now however is an explanation for how Diana actually knows this when she hasn't been there?

    Not right now atleast, but who knows, DC turned Beast Boy from red to green because the writer felt like it, could be the same here and changed back the next time someone feels differently.

    5. No it's the return to an old take... and seemingly making the same mistake as the old book did. Perez didn't bother explaining why the other Amazons were so close with Diana that noone could tell it was her competing, despite her multitude of blessings that by far exceeded theirs, that was a job WML had to do for him after almost a hundred issues into the volume and explained it by Diana being limited by an enchantment that was in place over Diana and the island: when she was on Themscira, she was no more powerful than the rest.

    6 and 7: Not the point, we saw how the suit came into being under Perez, we do the same here. And pardon me for trivializing this, but imagining a smith and a seamstress working isn't exacly difficult. But hey, the trade off is that under Perez we saw how the Lasso came into being, here we do not.

    9. It doesn't explain how or why Diana has still managed to returned there for over a dozen times or how Ra's al Ghul got there on his own. For that matter, it doesn't add up to the Demon Knights established notion of the Amazons maintaining a fixed and guarded landing spot on the mainland for their ships or that it's known amongst Amazons that only they can find and lead other people to Themysicra. Also, the permanent exile and loss of immortality was part of the Silver Age... mostly for writers to have a reason not to refer to or use Paradise Island in their stories outside of flashbacks.

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    OkRaider88

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    @outside_85: I appreciate the appeals to the Perez run, but the premise of the story is that all the stories of Wonder Woman's past have been changing. It's actually a very creative way at dealing with all the changes, adjustments, and tweaks that different writers have made over the decades - especially in the last five years in the New 52 era, that has been retconned by Dr. Manhattan. Dr. Manhattan didn't just kill Pandora, who apparently knew about him all along, he also killed Metron and Owlman because Owlman discovered him when he asked the Moebius chair to tell him everything about the universe.

    I like how Diana and the Amazons aren't being shown to be as ruthless as they had been shown to be in the last five years. That is likely to be all part of Dr. Manhattan's big lie. DC Rebirth is allowing the heroes to return to their most noble and heroic selves - something that I didn't realize I was starting to miss. I loved the dynamics of Diana's and Cheetah's interactions, in that Diana effectively beat Cheetah with love, compassion, and kindness (whereas New 52 WW would have gone all "god of war" and beat her down). Of all the rebirth books, I'm on board for this one.

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    Outside_85

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    #26  Edited By Outside_85

    @OkRaider88: The problem I have with this is that so far it's only an assumption Mahattan has actually changed anything since the New 52 launch, it's only just now he's started to go about whacking people he feels are out of line or out of usefulness. I am ofc aware he can basically travel time... but I would just like actual evidence he has done anything before fingering him as the culprit since Diana is in no shortage of enemies and friends who could also be the ones messing with her. (Heck if Dshipp's fondest wish came true, it could be Dr. Psycho editing her memories).

    I have to ask, but, where have the Amazons been depicted as 'ruthless' outside of the ship-raids? I mean, theres been about half a dozen visitors to Paradise Island in the New 52 era, and aside from Finch's gendercide, didn't all of them leave the island unmolested? (actually that might be a good addition, where other than in Finch's depiction did this happen?

    Regarding how she subdued Cheetah, yes that was nice... but it wasn't the first time Diana's done this, she basically did the same with Siracca, Hera and Orion... all of whom were prepared to kill her or at the very least punch her the first time they met. Even the minotaur actually ended up dying for her because of how she spared it.

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    TheAmazingSpidey

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    I'm enjoying the story a tad bit because of Wonder Woman's character, but I'm considering dropping it. The double storylines makes the story very demanding to follow and I'm not sure I've got the capacity to keep up.

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    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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    @scorpio_cassadine said:

    Azz's story is a lie, at least partially.

    She crushed her God of War helmet which should have been impossible,

    Olympus was fake,

    Hippolyta's not blonde,

    5. make the assumption because this is a new take, on Themyscira she hasn't done anything particularly wondrous that another Amazon couldn't do, she only had more skill

    6. and 7. have entirely different reasons from Perez's version which makes them new, and no you've never seen the actual construction of the costume...ever.

    9. explains why Themyscira can't be found, and no we've never heard that Diana can't return home after leaving, only that she loses her immortality. That's brand new.

    Is it? Or perhaps it's this happy memory thats the fake bit? Like in issue 2 we get a brief glimpse of a very different world lurking behind the paradise... and in this issue we get confirmation the Amazons know it's there, so perhaps what we see Nicola drawing is an illusion.

    Anyways, regarding the helmet... as I have said before, no where do we have any confirmation that the helmet Strife gave Diana, the one she smashed, is the same helmet Hephaestus made or Ares wore. We dont know where Strife got it from, we dont know if she has access to Ares' home, if it even exists after his death or if the helmet was ever in there. Moreover there is further issues with how Finch had Diana magically summon both the real helmet and the feathered cloak (which noone provided her) out of nothing and at will. And most damning of all... Ares wore his when he returned from the dead.

    Or Olympus has moved... which would not be the first time... infact, didn't this exact same thing happen during Rucka's previous run? Or was that someone else where the Gods forgot to provide the Amazons with enough power to not all turn into clay statues? And as for Paradise Island being lost... eh, well, Circe sent the whole thing into another dimension, the Amazons themselves withdrew it into another one, and there's ofc the time when the entire island was wiped off the map and later replaced. Point being that Themyscira's moving around has been done plenty of times before... whats missing right now however is an explanation for how Diana actually knows this when she hasn't been there?

    Not right now atleast, but who knows, DC turned Beast Boy from red to green because the writer felt like it, could be the same here and changed back the next time someone feels differently.

    5. No it's the return to an old take... and seemingly making the same mistake as the old book did. Perez didn't bother explaining why the other Amazons were so close with Diana that noone could tell it was her competing, despite her multitude of blessings that by far exceeded theirs, that was a job WML had to do for him after almost a hundred issues into the volume and explained it by Diana being limited by an enchantment that was in place over Diana and the island: when she was on Themscira, she was no more powerful than the rest.

    6 and 7: Not the point, we saw how the suit came into being under Perez, we do the same here. And pardon me for trivializing this, but imagining a smith and a seamstress working isn't exacly difficult. But hey, the trade off is that under Perez we saw how the Lasso came into being, here we do not.

    9. It doesn't explain how or why Diana has still managed to returned there for over a dozen times or how Ra's al Ghul got there on his own. For that matter, it doesn't add up to the Demon Knights established notion of the Amazons maintaining a fixed and guarded landing spot on the mainland for their ships or that it's known amongst Amazons that only they can find and lead other people to Themysicra. Also, the permanent exile and loss of immortality was part of the Silver Age... mostly for writers to have a reason not to refer to or use Paradise Island in their stories outside of flashbacks.

    You're moving goal posts. I just wanted to address the fact your "there's nothing new here" assertion is false. As for what's true and what's a lie, we'll find out I'm right in a few months. lol

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    Outside_85

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    You're moving goal posts. I just wanted to address the fact your "there's nothing new here" assertion is false. As for what's true and what's a lie, we'll find out I'm right in a few months. lol

    What is new then in this issue? Because all of this is old ground as far as the eye can see.

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    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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    @scorpio_cassadine said:

    You're moving goal posts. I just wanted to address the fact your "there's nothing new here" assertion is false. As for what's true and what's a lie, we'll find out I'm right in a few months. lol

    What is new then in this issue?

    1. We have a modern, young, likeable and well rounded Steve Trevor.

    2. We have patron gods that speak through mysterious portents rather than showing themselves outright.

    3. We have a great new origin for the invisible jet.

    4. We have Amazons with their own brand of advanced technology.

    5. We have a Diana who openly and honestly enters the contest and wins without running roughshod over the other Amazons thanks to the gifts given her at birth.

    6. We bear witness to the creation of the Wonder Woman uniform for the first time ever.

    7. We have a new plausible reason for a gun on Themyscira and the invention of bullets and bracelets.

    8. We have a revered and cherished golden lasso that's treated as a national treasure.

    9. We have a reason Diana can never go home again, that links to the present day story.

    10. We have a new mission for the Amazons as well as for Wonder Woman herself.

    11. We have an air of mystery, heartwarming pathos, new found optimism, hope and a bright new outlook that makes the reader feel emotionally invested and above all joyful.

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    dshipp17

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    #31  Edited By dshipp17

    Wonder Woman appeared to be the only Amazon fast enough to block the bullets; at least this is a reset; I guess some aspects Perez's origin my be gone, some of Marston origin may be back, but, it's unclear whether her Marston's weaknesses are back. I guess it's things as they go; if Wonder Woman is to get back to Paradise Island, she might have to bargain with the Olympians or perhaps something else happened between then and the modern day version of Wonder Woman to where she thinks that Cheetah can help her get back to Paradise Island.

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    Outside_85

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    #32  Edited By Outside_85

    @scorpio_cassadine: Hurray, it's my favorite game, picking apart wrong claims:

    1. Done by Perez to get Diana off the island, then he was aged and forgotten
    2. Actually we don't, we just have a bunch of Amazons sitting around a table guessing/assuming their gods have anything to do with it... besides this was also partially and done by Perez since the Amazons were never actually quite clean on what was going to happen and they never really got what Diane Trevor's appearance meant other than it was significant.
    3. Which I am quite sure was something that came from Marston when the Amazons were super scientists... since I seriously doubt the US Amy gave it to her... plus it's not the only time that item has gotten a revamped origins; one making it an alien artifact the other that it was a plane Bruce Wayne gave her after Infinite Crisis.
    4. It's called magic, and it's been done quite often by them... infact if you want to argue about unique science, look no futher than the previous Rucka run with it's Purple Healing and Death Rays.
    5. Beaten to it by Azzarello even if we didn't see it, there is Steve's account of it in the back pages of Justice League. Plus again, winning the contest under Perez was still a struggle for Diana. We know it was, because she was drenched in sweat when she finally took the helmet off, and while she obviously cleared all the obstacles, she never appeared so superior that anyone actually noticed it was her (and there were 2 others who also managed it). In this however it's all been reduced to a big brawl where Hippolyta picked the winners.
    6. Saw it under Perez.
    7. The 'flashing thunder' from Perez's origins was Diane Trevor's side arm, recovered from her body years before the contest was held.
    8. Yes, and under Gail Simone it was the Purple Healing Ray that had it's very own guardian... who eventually used it so much on herself she could regrown limbs on her own without it. What we don't get is an actual origins for the Lasso... or 'the Perfect' if you want.
    9. Which is still utter rubbish that's already been proven false countless times over the last 5 years of publication, making it completely meaningless. (much like the 'hands of gods' idea that they are speaking to them in strange ways)
    10. Deliver Steve back to Man's World has been part of the original mission since Marston was still alive, using Diana as an ambassador of Themyscira and it's ways has also nearly always been part of her job. The exceptions are Flashpoint and the New 52 where Diana came for the adventure... which is also her personal reason for doing what she does here, not a love for Steve. As for the Amazons... eh, how many times have we been told about Dooms Door?
    11. Yeah, it's like it was 'my first Wonder Woman book'... which then feels really odd when the previous issue featured a cat-lady gorging herself on the innards of a still living victim and the next one is likely to feature something equally R-rated. Te light feeling however isn't new either since the digital Sensation Comics was also steeped in that.

    But congratulations, you have a new basement under the barrel.

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    RayRay1127

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    #33  Edited By RayRay1127

    Reading all these posts, it's plain to see who is a fan of Azz, desperately clinging to that abomination of a "story" he wrote. This is a new day, people and we finally have a Wonder Woman story that FEELS like a Wonder Woman story.

    I, for one, just about fell out of my chair while reading this. It's such a beautiful story Greg and Nicola are crafting and they are essentially giving us the Perez amazons, whom I've missed terribly, but with improvements that harken back to their silver age. All in all Rucka gets a 10/10 from me! I just hope this new respect for the character keeps up. DC needs to hire writers who LIKE Wonder Woman. That definitely comes through.

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    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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    @scorpio_cassadine: Hurray, it's my favorite game, picking apart wrong claims:

    1. Done by Perez to get Diana off the island, then he was aged and forgotten
    2. Actually we don't, we just have a bunch of Amazons sitting around a table guessing/assuming their gods have anything to do with it... besides this was also partially and done by Perez since the Amazons were never actually quite clean on what was going to happen and they never really got what Diane Trevor's appearance meant other than it was significant.
    3. Which I am quite sure was something that came from Marston when the Amazons were super scientists... since I seriously doubt the US Amy gave it to her... plus it's not the only time that item has gotten a revamped origins; one making it an alien artifact the other that it was a plane Bruce Wayne gave her after Infinite Crisis.
    4. It's called magic, and it's been done quite often by them... infact if you want to argue about unique science, look no futher than the previous Rucka run with it's Purple Healing and Death Rays.
    5. Beaten to it by Azzarello even if we didn't see it, there is Steve's account of it in the back pages of Justice League. Plus again, winning the contest under Perez was still a struggle for Diana. We know it was, because she was drenched in sweat when she finally took the helmet off, and while she obviously cleared all the obstacles, she never appeared so superior that anyone actually noticed it was her (and there were 2 others who also managed it). In this however it's all been reduced to a big brawl where Hippolyta picked the winners.
    6. Saw it under Perez.
    7. The 'flashing thunder' from Perez's origins was Diane Trevor's side arm, recovered from her body years before the contest was held.
    8. Yes, and under Gail Simone it was the Purple Healing Ray that had it's very own guardian... who eventually used it so much on herself she could regrown limbs on her own without it. What we don't get is an actual origins for the Lasso... or 'the Perfect' if you want.
    9. Which is still utter rubbish that's already been proven false countless times over the last 5 years of publication, making it completely meaningless. (much like the 'hands of gods' idea that they are speaking to them in strange ways)
    10. Deliver Steve back to Man's World has been part of the original mission since Marston was still alive, using Diana as an ambassador of Themyscira and it's ways has also nearly always been part of her job. The exceptions are Flashpoint and the New 52 where Diana came for the adventure... which is also her personal reason for doing what she does here, not a love for Steve. As for the Amazons... eh, how many times have we been told about Dooms Door?
    11. Yeah, it's like it was 'my first Wonder Woman book'... which then feels really odd when the previous issue featured a cat-lady gorging herself on the innards of a still living victim and the next one is likely to feature something equally R-rated. Te light feeling however isn't new either since the digital Sensation Comics was also steeped in that.

    But congratulations, you have a new basement under the barrel.

    Have you read Perez? That's not even almost right, his Steve was old from the very beginning.

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    Saint_Sophie

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    #35  Edited By Saint_Sophie

    What I don't get however is why they are in shock and awe over a regular pistol (that hasn't really changed it's basic design in hundreds of years) when they can pick apart and reassemble a crashed airplane into working order and apparently improve it.

    That was probably one of my only complaints. Kind of contradictory/inconsistent to be honest with their supposed knowledge.

    xoxo, -Saint Sophie

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    Archizooom

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    #36  Edited By Archizooom

    @outside_85: Rucka didn't set out to reinvent the wheel, in fact in that Polygon interview Scott stressed the importance of updating the origin story as opposed to doing a complete overhaul. The idea was to flush the new 52 down the toilet and resume the classic myth. This is Perez redux spliced with bits from other incarnations I think. And I think it's normal to be startled by the thundering sound of a gun if you haven't never seen one before, clearly they understood the mechanics. First time I saw a real gun up close lying on the kitchen counter it sent shivers down my spine, and I'd seen plenty on the telly. Guns are pretty darn terrifying

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    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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    @outside_85 said:

    What I don't get however is why they are in shock and awe over a regular pistol (that hasn't really changed it's basic design in hundreds of years) when they can pick apart and reassemble a crashed airplane into working order and apparently improve it.

    That was probably one of my only complaints. Kind of contradictory/inconsistent to be honest with their supposed knowledge.

    xoxo, -Saint Sophie

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17423-timeline-weapons-technology/

    ^This is why they wouldn't know about guns.

    There's no reason for them to invent new weapons, they're on a peaceful island, the swords and spears were sufficient for games and guarding the gate. Boredom however could force them to develop other areas of expertise.

    Come to think of it though, the same crystals that power the Purple Ray may hold planes together and make them invisible.

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    Outside_85

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    Have you read Perez? That's not even almost right, his Steve was old from the very beginning.

    The question we should be asking: Have you? Because it doesn't look like it, or you have a very different idea of what new means.

    @outside_85: Rucka didn't set out to reinvent the wheel, in fact in that Polygon interview Scott stressed the importance of updating the origin story as opposed to doing a complete overhaul. The idea was to flush the new 52 down the toilet and resume the classic myth. This is Perez redux spliced with bits from other incarnations I think.

    And I think it's normal to be startled by the thundering sound of a gun if you haven't never seen one before, clearly they understood the mechanics.

    First time I saw a real gun up close lying on the kitchen counter it sent shivers down my spine, and I'd seen plenty on the telly. Guns are pretty darn terrifying

    So basically there is no real point in doing this since they could just hand us the recently re-released Perez origns and we'd be no better or worse off? Aside that, I still have to doubt they are going to flush all of it since WB decided to go with the New 52 origins... and if the Suicide Squad changes are an indicator DC is going to align themselves as closely as possible with the movies (as was part of a statement by Diane Nelson).

    Except that wasn't so much a startle than it was fear on their faces.

    I can't claim I had the same reaction, first time I saw one was likely when we had a police officer visiting the school, first time I touched one was likely a sports rifle at a firing range... but firing an M-16 on full auto was effing awesome :)

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    Outside_85

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    #40  Edited By Outside_85

    @agent41 said:

    I can understand that youu feel like they should expand WW even more, but there is no reason to feel like it won't happen or that the story will be bad. It's too soon to be negative. What i like about certain aspects going back to basics is the possibility of having more consistency with her background. I'm not here for more writers who think they must change her cast, personalty, origin, powers, etc. Comics in general do this too often, and that's annoying.

    My point is simply: Why am I reading this? What does it provide that I don't already have? And why has this been changed now?

    I mean, if we had a big old event that ended with DC announcing that the Pre-Flashpoint world is back in action, would we all be sitting here reading about how Krypton blew up or how the Waynes were murdered?

    I am missing the point of this being done, that is all.

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    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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    @agent41 said:

    I can understand that youu feel like they should expand WW even more, but there is no reason to feel like it won't happen or that the story will be bad. It's too soon to be negative. What i like about certain aspects going back to basics is the possibility of having more consistency with her background. I'm not here for more writers who think they must change her cast, personalty, origin, powers, etc. Comics in general do this too often, and that's annoying.

    My point is simply: Why am I reading this? What does it provide that I don't already have? And why has this been changed now?

    I mean, if we had a big old event that ended with DC announcing that the Pre-Flashpoint world is back in action, would we all be sitting here reading about how Krypton blew up or how the Waynes were murdered?

    I am missing the point of this being done, that is all.

    You're missing a lot, especially if a title like "Rebirth" doesn't give you an idea. If that doesn't do it, I don't know what will.

    I also don't know why you're reading this? Clearly the whole concept is going over your head, maybe you should try something lighter, that won't be as taxing for you?

    In an effort to encourage you to continue attempting to read, I'm going to leave this list here for you to peruse (that means look through) at your leisure (that means when you get the chance). :)

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    alsummers

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    I mean Rebirth my definition from Geoff Johns is to return the characters back to their classicism. It's the entire point of Rebirth. Basically its people complaining about a new origin, but this origin has much more to offer than people are accepting. It has real emotion behind it, rather than the typical paint by numbers fighting and infighting that does nothing to define Diana as anything but a rabble rouser. It so far makes Diana a lot more likable to me than she has been in the last five years.

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    Jonny_Anonymous

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    I'm not interested in perfect Amazon's being perfect.

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    deactivated-599b4bc7465db

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    @jonny_anonymous: they dont seem to be the focus of this story so it probably wont matter

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