Wonder Woman New 52 Sales Figures

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#101 Edited by gokuwarrior (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells: hahaha,wonder woman costume is iconic,and it won't change,you saw what happended when they tried,now you'll say that her bracelets and lasso are silly too right?,nobody complains about her costume,and with the sex conent that women have in actual series and movie you can really bet that most people don't complain about her costume.

but if you find her silly go away,this is not the right forum for you.

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#102 Posted by SmoothJammin (2661 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate looking at sales figures. It's depressing and I'd rather not be aware of how good the books I read are selling.

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#103 Posted by Press Oblivion (1719 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

@Press Oblivion: why not?,you all say that people think she is not cool,and you obiously think that there's nothing to do about it,all of you have a fatal vision of her,like she has no future no matter what,so why waste more time with her right?.

Obviously I've upset you. My apologies.

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#104 Edited by gokuwarrior (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@Press Oblivion: i'm not upset,i'm saying what you think,you say that people think she is not cool,"drgnx" thinks that the comic is the problem,"colonyofcells" thinks that she is lame and have too many silly things like most DC characters,so obiously she should dissapear if she is that bad,that should be the conclution from all of you right?.

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#105 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Even icons change altho it just takes longer. Nothing really lasts forever and this includes old costumes. Wonder Woman will get more updates as needed in order to survive against competitors like Black Widow, Marvel's female Captain Marvel, etc.

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#106 Posted by gokuwarrior (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells: black widow?,really?,nobody recognizes her,and outside the US she is a nobody,wonder woman costume stayed the same for 71 years,she won't change now,nobody complains about her costume specially when people love tha kind of costume,look at mangas,and many other females in comics,her lasso,tiara and bracelets are her main items,they won't go away either,sorry but wonder woman costume and items didn't change in 71 years,you can bet they won't start to change now,they aren't the problem.

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#107 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

DC saw many problems in the costumes which is why many costumes were improved with the New 52 reboots.

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#108 Posted by gokuwarrior (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells: but her costume stayed the same,like most of the heros.

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#109 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

For a while, they wanted pants but somebody changed it back to panties. They even showed the action figure of Wonder Woman with pants and on the promo and cover for Justice League 1. My guess is the Wonder Woman solo title creators prefer the panties for some reason. DC will probably change the costume again once the CW tv show and Justice League movie starts.

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#110 Posted by gokuwarrior (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells: the TV pilot failed and one reason was the pants,you can bet they won't make that mistake again,most people prefer her costume the way it is.

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#111 Posted by jphulk26 (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells said:

For movies, the first thing they will do is to update the silly costume of Wonder Woman which in current comics, looks like that of a stripper. I can tell you more about all the silly stuff in Wonder Woman when your heart is ready for the truth about how the general public views silly super heroes. Many of dc's super heroes have silly elements bec. many started in the golden age when comics were for children. Marvel super heroes were invented much later in the silver age when teens were reading comics so Marvel super heroes have less of the silly elements. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were working in romance comics before they created the Marvel super heroes and they carried some of their romance comics skills in doing the Marvel super heroes which tend to translate better to movies for teens.

@colonyofcells: Spiderman is completely ridiculous (bitten by a radioactive spider, gains spider powers), and as much as love I the Hulk his powers came from being nuked by an atom bomb. Because historically thats been known for the power it bestows on its victims. Sorry in terms of the mythology behind it Batman, Superman and WW are far more complex and mature than any of Marvels creations. Maybe Marvel have the X-Men, but again Superman and Batmans mythologies are far more timeless and iconic than the X-Men and I would argue WW as well, but just to be objective, I limit it to that. How is a man bitten by a radio active spider more mature or The Fantastic Four "Its clobering time"? hit by cosmic rays. Come on man. Or even Captain "wait was that?" America. No sorry even better I forgot about Antman. Please are you for real and this is comicng from a Marvel fan. DC´s stories are just sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better. DC problem is its a terribly corrupt company with poor organisation, and I rate Marvel for the pride they take in even their most ridiculous characters, but DC main heroes mythologies are just superior stories. X-Men and the Hulk are the best Marvel creations. @drgnx: @gokuwarrior:

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#112 Posted by lilben42 (2702 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Some girls don't like her costume though. I mean its just like a one piece bathing suit. Probably because the way guys act when they see her.

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#113 Posted by Captain13 (4773 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

@gokuwarrior: Some girls don't like her costume though. I mean its just like a one piece bathing suit. Probably because the way guys act when they see her.

He costume should look more warrior like. Give her a gladiator skirt. It's not sexist like the panties or ugly like the pants. Guys wore it too. It fits with her backgound. I don't see the problem.

Kris Anka's Redesign
Kris Anka's Redesign

Kris Anka explains his approach, saying:

I was definitely trying achieve a more legit gladiator look. I went with a majority of leather armoring for a more flexible/useful look. I really wanted to remove all aspects of daintiness from her; make her truly seem someone not to mess with. I always felt the corniness of her costume held back her potential/appeal. The stars were definitely something I was keen to be rid of. Bare feet seemed more proper for fighting than high heels.

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#114 Posted by tea8765 (197 posts) - - Show Bio

@OutlawRenegade said:

@moywar700 said:

She's sells fairly well considering her digital sales and tradeback sales .

She doesn't have to sell as well as Green Lanturn to be as important to DC Universe. It is how she is written that makes her important.Not how much she sells.

I like Wonder Woman a lot, but don't forget that DC is a business.

It is a business, and its not just the writing that's effecting the sales its the marketing too. I bought my first comic in the toy department at Wal-Mart, they don't even sell comics anymore. Of course this doesn't account for the drop in sales over the last few months, but I wonder what about the last ten or twenty years.

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#115 Posted by gokuwarrior (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@tea8765: they need to do the proper marketing when they give her more exposure outside comics.

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#116 Posted by gokuwarrior (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13: her costume is fine,but the image you post isn't bad,they need to do the proper marketing when they give her more exposure outside comics.

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#117 Edited by jphulk26 (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

@lilben42 said:

@gokuwarrior: Some girls don't like her costume though. I mean its just like a one piece bathing suit. Probably because the way guys act when they see her.

He costume should look more warrior like. Give her a gladiator skirt. It's not sexist like the panties or ugly like the pants. Guys wore it too. It fits with her backgound. I don't see the problem.

Kris Anka's Redesign
Kris Anka's Redesign

Kris Anka explains his approach, saying:

I was definitely trying achieve a more legit gladiator look. I went with a majority of leather armoring for a more flexible/useful look. I really wanted to remove all aspects of daintiness from her; make her truly seem someone not to mess with. I always felt the corniness of her costume held back her potential/appeal. The stars were definitely something I was keen to be rid of. Bare feet seemed more proper for fighting than high heels.

@colonyofcells: @gokuwarrior: I never here women complain about the costume, its only men trying to pretend they are not sexist. Its the silliest thing, if you find it sexual, do you find gymnasts who wear Tiara´s sexual? (Not to you Goku) I think its a general rule that a costume has to be striking and memorable to be good, and hers is and yes it shows off WW beauty, but whys that a bad thing? I´ve only heard one woman ever complain about it, and even friends of mine who are feminists have no problem with it. It shows she is beautiful, powerful and at ease with herself. You never hear Wonder Woman worrying about her looks, or worrying about her hair or makeup, she´s completely comfortable with her own being and I think thats a positive message for little girls and women and people in general.

I don´t like when the costume is hypersexualised, like in some runs of her comic, but that can be done with any character whether male or female, I think usually she looks perfectly fine.

Check out this link if you don´t believe me, I think women are fine with how she looks.

Loading Video...

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGsquQJeP9U"

From what I see here women seem to be more interested in Wonder Woman being able to kick ass than what she´s wearing.

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#118 Posted by gokuwarrior (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: i agree.

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#119 Posted by x_29 (2375 posts) - - Show Bio

I could careless as long as her book continues to be fantastic. Azzarelo is crafting one of the more memorable takes on Wonder Woman.

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#120 Posted by Press Oblivion (1719 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome

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#121 Posted by lilben42 (2702 posts) - - Show Bio

I think once she has a great story arc more people will buy them.

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#122 Posted by jphulk26 (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13: Can I ask, do you really think if they changed her costume to this it would increase the sales of her comic?

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#123 Posted by Goddessa (208 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: I doubt it. It's a very one dimensional look at a character if that's the reasoning.

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#124 Posted by jphulk26 (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

@Goddessa said:

@jphulk26: I doubt it. It's a very one dimensional look at a character if that's the reasoning.

I´m just asking cause loads of people think her costume is the problem. I see nothing wrong with it. A lot of women I know see nothing wrong with it. Its just a bunch of guys, which makes me suspicious because I have never in any other type of discussion heard a man say they find a woman unrelatable because she doesn´t wear enough clothes. I personally don´t mind her changing her costume as long as it isn´t jeans and a leather jacket, but rather some kind of warrior garb, but I don´t think that has anything to do with her sales whatsoever.

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#125 Posted by Goddessa (208 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

@Goddessa said:

@jphulk26: I doubt it. It's a very one dimensional look at a character if that's the reasoning.

I´m just asking cause loads of people think her costume is the problem. I see nothing wrong with it. A lot of women I know see nothing wrong with it. Its just a bunch of guys, which makes me suspicious because I have never in any other type of discussion heard a man say they find a woman unrelatable because she doesn´t wear enough clothes. I personally don´t mind her changing her costume as long as it isn´t jeans and a leather jacket, but rather some kind of warrior garb, but I don´t think that has anything to do with her sales whatsoever.

I'm with you there. Actually there's really nothing wrong with the panties garb, it's how it's drawn...I love Phil Jimenez WW artwork - powerful, sexy, regal ...compared to Mike Deodato's WW - she looks like she' out for blood all the time, overly sexy high cut panty, and greasy hair look. But I totally abhor Atkins work!

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#126 Edited by drgnx (3971 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26:

Here is a chart we did in the Batman thread. It was mainly to show Batman and success, but you use it to check out Wonder. Women compared to the big 3 sellers members and comics. Ive checked anything related to GL, SM, and WW. The new Talon comic is doing well too for Gotham...

JLI was cancelled, but was not on deathwatch ....

Updated found the data for Aquaman and Talon, both are in the 50k range. Talon was in the 50k but was in the 37k ran for November only, no data on December yet. I'd leave it in the 50 range until they post new numbers, besides that's range it would have been in at the time of that article.

Here is the link where they got the raw data

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2012.html

And of course the data I used for this list (they used the data above)

http://comicbookrevolution.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=58&Itemid=82

CategoryBatman & FamilyBatman Family on TeamNon-Batman
Allstar
(100k<Sales)
BatmanJustice League
High
(80k<sales<100k)
---
Mid
(60k<sales<80k)
Batman The Dark Knight
Batman and Robin
Batman Incorporated
Detective Comics
  • Green Lantern
  • Action Comics (SM)
  • Earth 2 (Green Lantern)
Avg
(45k<sales<60k)
Nightwing
Talon
Flash
  • Superman
Aquaman
Low
(30k<sales<45k)
Batgirl
Batwoman
Catwoman
Red Hood & the Outlaws
Teen Titans (trinity Jr)
World's Finest (also power girl)
Animal Man
Swamp Thing
  • Green Lantern Corps
  • Green Lantern New Guardians
  • Red Lanterns
  • Supergirl
  • Wonder Woman
Justice League Dark
Danger
(20k<sales<30k)
Birds of Prey
Suicide Squad(H Quinn)
All Star Western
Green Arrow
  • Superboy
Dial H
Ravagers
Deathwatch
(0<sales<20k)
BatwingDC Universe Presents
Deathstroke
Demon Knights
Firestorm
I, Vampire
Legion of Super Heroes
Savage Hawkman
Stormwatch
In the process
of being
cancelled
Blue Beetle
Frankenstein Agent of Shade
Grifter
Legion Lost
One year later
(cancelled)
Justice League Int.BlackHawks
Hawk and Dove
Men of War
Mr. Terrific
OMAC
Static Shock
Catpain Atom
Resurrection Man
Voodoo
GI Combat

Batman (& family)

  1. Batman - Allstar (100,000+)
  2. Batman The Dark Knight - Mid:(60,000 to 79,999)
  3. Batman and Robin - Mid:(60,000 to 79,999)
  4. Batman Incorporated - Mid:(60,000 to 79,999)
  5. Detective Comics - Mid:(60,000 to 79,999)

Bat Family

  1. Catwomen - Avg:(45,000 to 59,999)
  2. Batwomen - Low:(30,000 to 44,999)
  3. Batgirl - Low:(30,000 to 44,999)
  4. Batwing - Low:(0 to 19,999)
  5. Nightwing - Avg:(45,000 to 59,999)

Teams with Bat family

  1. Justice League (Batman) - Allstar (100,000+)
  2. Justice League International (Batman, Batwing) - cancelled
  3. Teen Titans (Red Robin) - Low:(30,000 to 44,999)
  4. Redhood and the Outlaws (Redhood) - Low:(30,000 to 44,999)
  5. World's Finest (Huntress) - Low:(30,000 to 44,999)
  6. Birds of Prey (Batgirl & various) - Low:(20,000 to 29,999)
  7. Justice League of America (Catwomen) - ?

Comics with Batman/Gotham Related Characters

  1. Talon - spawned from Batman and family crossover event - Avg:(45,000 to 59,999)
  2. Suicide Squad (Harley Quinn) - Low:(20,000 to 29,999)
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#127 Posted by jphulk26 (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: thank you, i´m guessing this is for new 52 sales?

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#128 Edited by drgnx (3971 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: Yes, its from the links you posted, just put in a chart, its funny even titans has a Lantern like guy, he uses psionic brinks to make constructs, but is violet instead of green .... <.<", it sealed the deal when he made a cushion (or something springy) out of brinks ...

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#129 Posted by WWsource (1 posts) - - Show Bio

We fans of Wonder Woman are all too aware that she hasn't sold well in the fast several years. She's been the victim of bad writing, misunderstood, and just not being taken seriously by the head CEOs of DC. This reboot may be selling well, but it keeps dropping. Wonder Woman is nowhere near being cancelled, that’s true. But DC has really altered her universe in a way that not only irritates the fans, it also makes her relatable. Her new origin story has dragged on for what? Two years now? And she STILL hasn’t gotten anywhere. She’s void of personality and her own books lack her “screen time”. Most of the time we see gods arguing, Hera on a rant, or Diana standing there or killing. She lacks her smile and compassion. The new outfit dulls down her image so she’s lost in the background. She doesn’t pop. She’s just there. The beautiful Greco-Roman world of Themyscira has turned into the downtown streets of Bagdad. The very structure of Wonder Woman has been removed. Her birth from the earth was symbolic to the story of Pandora. While Pandora was created to destroy man, Wonder Woman was created to save it. That was Marston’s whole intent in creating her. The new 52 presents an interesting storyline for an alternate universe, but as a mainstream story it lacks. Diana, the Amazons, and the gods are very misunderstood. The knowledge of Greek mythology lacks in this new run. The gods were not evil or stupid, nor were they power-hungry. They fought, yes. But they never tried to kill each other (they couldn’t in real mythology). These New 52 gods lack the beauty and luster the ones of mythology had. In time as we see now with the drop in sales constantly happening, this run will keep getting old. We want Wonder woman to do something. We want her to be somebody. That’s all. Right now she’s just a figure in a comic. Nothing more nothing less. Maybe I’ll start my own fan-fiction comic online and take what worked and didn’t work in all her incarnations and create a new storyline. I’ve lost faith in the New 52 Wonder Woman. I’ll keep reading hoping one day they’ll do her right.

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#130 Posted by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

@WWsource said:

We fans of Wonder Woman are all too aware that she hasn't sold well in the fast several years. She's been the victim of bad writing, misunderstood, and just not being taken seriously by the head CEOs of DC. This reboot may be selling well, but it keeps dropping. Wonder Woman is nowhere near being cancelled, that’s true. But DC has really altered her universe in a way that not only irritates the fans, it also makes her relatable. Her new origin story has dragged on for what? Two years now? And she STILL hasn’t gotten anywhere. She’s void of personality and her own books lack her “screen time”. Most of the time we see gods arguing, Hera on a rant, or Diana standing there or killing. She lacks her smile and compassion. The new outfit dulls down her image so she’s lost in the background. She doesn’t pop. She’s just there. The beautiful Greco-Roman world of Themyscira has turned into the downtown streets of Bagdad. The very structure of Wonder Woman has been removed. Her birth from the earth was symbolic to the story of Pandora. While Pandora was created to destroy man, Wonder Woman was created to save it. That was Marston’s whole intent in creating her. The new 52 presents an interesting storyline for an alternate universe, but as a mainstream story it lacks. Diana, the Amazons, and the gods are very misunderstood. The knowledge of Greek mythology lacks in this new run. The gods were not evil or stupid, nor were they power-hungry. They fought, yes. But they never tried to kill each other (they couldn’t in real mythology). These New 52 gods lack the beauty and luster the ones of mythology had. In time as we see now with the drop in sales constantly happening, this run will keep getting old. We want Wonder woman to do something. We want her to be somebody. That’s all. Right now she’s just a figure in a comic. Nothing more nothing less. Maybe I’ll start my own fan-fiction comic online and take what worked and didn’t work in all her incarnations and create a new storyline. I’ve lost faith in the New 52 Wonder Woman. I’ll keep reading hoping one day they’ll do her right.

Good post! You're preaching to the choir.

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#131 Posted by gokuwarrior (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@WWsource: i completely agree with you.

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#132 Posted by Goddessa (208 posts) - - Show Bio

@WWsource: Well Said!

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#133 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe do a spin off title for the greek gods so Wonder Woman can get more screen time in her own title. Maybe it is time for dc to do a Hercules title also like Marvel. Hopefully, the new gods will get their own title soon bec. the Wonder Woman title does look a bit overcrowded these days. I hope Thor don't show up in Wonder Woman also.

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#134 Edited by ChiSoxRox (240 posts) - - Show Bio

She's still trending down, slowly:

Oct. 2012 - 43,727

Nov. 2012 - 42,388

Dec. 2012 - 41,639

Jan. 2013 - 40,100

Feb. 2013 - 39,110

March 2013 - 38,406

But almost all New 52 titles are consistently declining; Wonder Woman last month was still good for 19th out of the 52.

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#135 Posted by darkman61288 (972 posts) - - Show Bio

@chisoxrox: True most of the titles are declining. In fact most of the titles are nearing their pre Flashpoint levels. Which really shows how the New 52 isn't really working.

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#136 Posted by herrweis (497 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26:

any other female superheroine proceeding her or coming after her I would say.

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#137 Posted by Press Oblivion (1719 posts) - - Show Bio

It's interesting to see where this project of DC's stands after a year and half.

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#138 Edited by herrweis (497 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: the female batman family members only sell that amount when there is a crossover.if not they se;ll less than Wonder Woman

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#139 Posted by gokuwarrior (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

@press_oblivion: let's see what the future holds for wonder woman,there are so many thing that they can do for her and increase sales,but hey,we can always keep the hope with us no matter what.

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#140 Posted by bloggerboy (896 posts) - - Show Bio

These stats are really a microcosm of this whole New 52 initiative. DC needed to change the game, meaning that they should have changed the way comics are created from start to end or looked at the Superhero genre in a vastly different way (less spandex & more preacticality), and it was really business as usual.

The tweaks in the designs were minimal at best and Aquaman didn't even get a new suit. I think everyone expected that this is where they would be in a year. DC just didn't bring anything new to the world of comics.

But people hate change. Wonder Woman had the most changes done to her out of the Trinity and her book is the best of the three but sales-wise it's doing the worst.

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#141 Posted by TAneT62 (1099 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't have a clue to why she doesn't sell as great as we expect, it's pretty unfathomable. Wonder Woman, said by a million other users, has been untreated poorly, no fairness in the game, not written as well as her fellow DC partners, and other propaganda that leaves us clueless. I really don't think those are the reasons her comics don't sell as well as Superman, Batman, and others. It may just be boredom with the same renditions on repeat with Wonder Woman, and when they try something new, not everyone favours the change. Her animated film was one of the biggest grossing films for DC, and that says something. I guess it'll all work out in time, if not, then their doing the wrong things with Wonder Woman, like they are now. But, her legendaryness will never cease to exist, she will remain one of DCs biggest superheroes, no, the worlds. ;)

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#142 Edited by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll tell you what the real problem is. Right or wrong, historically Wonder Woman has been the gay people's title. The new 52 has sought to make her acceptable for straight male fans at the expense of her queer following.

The whole theme of empowerment for the disenfranchised (women, gays and other minorities) has been tossed out in favor of themes straight, white males can relate to. They include the problems of patriarchy and the power that comes from it, and a distrust for powerful women that reduces them to murdering, baby selling, man-hating feminazis. Not only that, these women have to be sexually aggressive, primitive and backwards so that they're not put on a pedestal and possibly seen as better than men. Plus, if they made Paradise Island an actual paradise, it may be thought to be too girly and repel the new fans they're trying to attract.

Then the book was flooded with as many male characters as possible so that guys reading it would have someone to relate to. Even though this is essentially a story about the Greek Pantheon, they reduced the role of Wonder Woman's patron goddesses by making Artemis a villain, Aphrodite a partially seen/ rarely used background character and dispensed with Athena all together.

Apparently you can't have too many women in the book, unless they're malevolent. If they're good, they compete with Wonder Woman and she's already a bit player in a large ensemble cast.

All this spits in the face of Wonder Woman's core fans and they've dropped the title. The new male fans are moving on to the next cool thing, after becoming bored with the slow pace of the story. That leaves Wonder Woman with dwindling sales numbers.

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#143 Posted by Press Oblivion (1719 posts) - - Show Bio

@scorpio_cassadine: This is a very interesting perspective and you've brought up some things that I have never considered before.

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#144 Posted by WhineHaus (106 posts) - - Show Bio

@scorpio_cassadine: As a gay man, I must to respectfully disagree. I would consider myself a 'core' fan of Wonder Woman, yet I never followed her comics before. Comics in general were difficult for me to follow, because I felt as though I'd be jumping in mid-way, confused and without the ever-growing backstory. The New 52 gave me an opportunity to start fresh with a character I've always loved.

I find Azzarello's story compelling, and I love the cast of characters. I don't mind the amount of male characters, and the Greek-pantheon take is very fresh. Almost modernized, Wonder Woman's lore has been given a sense of style and grit that I really enjoy.

I think a lot of it comes down to personal preference, and as it should. To each his own. And while I don't speak for every gay man, I do speak for myself and many of my friends who enjoy the New 52 Wonder Woman. To me, it's great, and it'll keep my money.

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#145 Posted by jphulk26 (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

@wwsource: Hey if you want to do this fan fiction, I´m writing a pretty cool story and could use some help.

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#146 Edited by Sinisteri (643 posts) - - Show Bio

Good points.

As for the gay male demographic, you have to look at gays in society over the decades not just today which makes the point about appealing to the struggles which gay males historically identified much more relatable when Diana was less a female superman and the theme and cast was more female driven. You know, when immortal amazons didn't need to rape and kill to keep up their populace and the woman had high respect and goals and more contributive goddesses involved in their lives.

WW used to represent being ok with bring strong but consistently compassionate and power through being the best by will and exercise NOT god blessed talents. She earned her title and weapons and strived to do feats as opposed to being granted power or having pantheon blood.

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#147 Posted by jphulk26 (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

@drgnx said:

@gokuwarrior:

I also don't see a movie just increasing sales of comics unless the comics themselves are good, meaning once the person picks up the issue, they want to keep reading it because it is good. There is also the topic of limited budget, if someone is going to buy x amount of comics, they would have to drop something to get a new title. There are a lot more nuances in that, that I'd rather not explore right now, but hope you get my point.

Basically DC is looking at things from a Franchise perspective, for each character and their universe as a whole. My main concern when I read your posts (and sorry if I'm misreading your intentions) is you think they just need to market her better by throwing out more media to popularize her more. But they need to figure out how to market her media and ensure there is in fact a market for that form of media, and accept that some forms off media might actually be niche and focus on areas that have a wider fan-base.

Batman has always been strong, I mean look at the Adam west show, that was popular even in the 90s, and some still love it. Even Superman shows don't have that type of staying power, it could just be Batman is more appealing in more forms of media.

I really agree with your point here, but I think what Gokuwarrior and I believe is something different. I think its about awareness of the character in general, who she is, what she is about. To quote something I wrote recently on another post about the affect media and promotion has on a character:

"The Avengers and Dark Knight Movie have changed things. (to paraphrase The Joker)

It is clear that comic book movies now have become a main marketing platform for comic characters as the market for comic movies appeal has widened, so everyone thinks suddenly superheroes are cool. This was not the case in recent history. This has been a very slow progression of lesser known Superheroes like the Xmen, Wolverine, Iron Man etc infiltrating popular culture and taking Supermans spot light.

The gasp I heard at the end of the Avengers movie when Thanos came up was massive, and made me laugh, because it was a two second pause between the first and the second. The first from 10 comic fans who actually knew who he was, the second from the other kids including myself who wanted to pretend they were in on it as well. Now you could ask almost any kid in the world and they now know who Thanos is, and can tell you stuff about him. In past comic movies didn´t have that impact, so you are right about comic movies before The Dark Knight, Iron Man and The Avengers, but wrong about movies marketing comic characters now. Fact, we are heading slowly into a new golden age for comics. If it isn´t for monthly publications it will be for solo graphic novels surrounding the characters being marketted in film and other media. I do have stats for that by the way.

Historically speaking it is also easy to see that Batmans film career has helped in comic sales, (It also helped attract a great deal of talent to work on Batman projects as did Superman in the 70s which in fact even Mark Waid has admitted to several times; he wouldn´t be a comic writer if it wasn´t for Reeve´s superman), and Xmens cartoon certainly had a great deal of impact on sales of X-Men comics in the 90s. Obviously it is not a full proof magic formula, people are not as you pointed out going to watch a bad Hulk movie and then buy the comic or vice versa. What often happens rather is that comic book enthusiasts get into comics much later in life than their first experience with a comic character they like. They may watch the movies when they are very young, think a character is cool, watch the movies again and again; and then guess what, when they become interested in comics, guess which ones they decide to look at first. For instance I loved the Incredible Hulk Bill Bixby, when I was a kid, would watch it all the time, but I didn´t therefore think, I´m going to buy a Hulk comic. It doesn´t work like that. But years later, when I got into comics through the X-Men cartoon; my thought was, ok what other heroes do I like, and what came to mind was the Batman film from the 90s and The Hulk from the TV show growing up. Thats how you build an awareness of a character, that later will translate into comic sales. Its not oh watched the film next day buy the comic, of course not. But during this time when comics are big and names are being established for a younger generation, DC has to use the media arm of their organisation if they are going to be competitive in comics in future. Then as well they have to make sure the quality of the comic is good as well. Because when people first start buying comics they will look for characters ones who had an impact in other media like cartoons, movies, and videogames when they were young. They also look for Graphic Novels and Comic events. If Elektra, Punisher and Daredevil films didn´t work to increase the sales of their comics in the long term thats because their films weren´t considered that cool, a generation wasn´t profoundly impacted by them. But the generation that are eating up Batman comics now are the generation that grew up on the films and animated show which had huge cultural impact. Just like the generation who bought Perrez´s Wonder Woman, grew up on the 70s TV show.

I´d also like to add that with WW, the only image the general public or even comic reading public have in their head is her from 70s show, in the invisible plane that looked like a bottle, and from the recent JL animated series, where she was hardly depicted in the greatest light. Now I actually love the 70s show, but still it was a bit goofy for our modern cynical tastes and WW as a character has developed alot more since then, into something a lot more pallitable for our generation, if she is to succeed in future and have interest from writers as well as from comic fans then the new image has to be presented to the world. No one who hasn´t read Wonder Woman (in the general public) would think WW is bad ass enough to personally blind herself with acid to win a fight with Medusa, people think she´s too busy twirling around in glitter for that. Thats the problem with WW. As good as her show was in the 70s its left an indelible media image imprinted on peoples minds that needs to be changed. We still have the (really good but out dated) Lynda Carter image of a woman twirling in glitter and turning into WW. I doubt if the original Batman movie had been as campy as Adam Wests show, or had not even been made, Batman wouldn´t be half as popular as he is now. Now I´m happy they didn´t make a WW in the vein of a Christopher Reeves style WW movie, because I think now in a new era at this time, when friends I know who have never talked about superheroes before, are suddenly actually quite interested in the latest movies would actually be willing to give a darker edgier WW film a chance. You have to recognise Iron Man, Dark Knight and Avengers and I belive Man Of Steel next year have changed the game. Who ever realizes - Marvel or DC that that could translate into giving some of their female characters a chance - first (if handled correctly i.e. the film, or animated series is genuinely edgy cool and hip) will I believe rake it in, if not in comics at first (thats a more long term investment, which will need good writing in solo comics that won´t cause confusion and graphic novels), certainly in the short term in box office, toys and comic related products. Its a gamble, but one well worth it. Just look at films like The Hunger Games with female leads. Wonder Woman could kind of be like that for comics if done well. We need a younger, edgier, hipper media representation, and with all the dark Greek Mythology, the feminist appeal of her mythology, the warrior stuff, plus WW is kinda easy on the eyes, that could translate into a mega hit if handled well. She could potentially appeal to men and women a like.

@colonyofcells said:

Things are eternally changing and rearranging and we should expect more future reboots, retcons, revamps for Wonder Woman. Dc is doing the right thing in updating Wonder Woman every now and then, so Wonder Woman is getting the right treatment. Warner cannot just throw money at dc characters bec. Warner already lost tons of money in marketing the flop Green Lantern movie.

One, I think thats a bit short sighted, Green Lantern was a flop because it was bad. Its reviews were terrible, and it was handled awfully. Second, it actually did quite well in the first weekend, but suffered from word of mouth. The fact is hype, timing and strategy is half the job, the second is putting a good product out there. People might say well, what about Watchmen? or Dredd? I personally am baffeled that Watchmen didn´t do better, but I think people were expecting more of a lighthearted fair than they got and ultimately, I think that movie has done DC more good than harm actually. But what the Watchmen and Dredd missed was the right platform to launch these characters on. Marvel got it completely. Great strategy, set up a marvel universe with Avengers as the end goal. I think are crazy not to do the same. if it works it works. And so what if Marvel claimed they are copying them, which they never will; if DC springboard solo films that are good and treated like Nolan did for Batman Begins (meaning the tone will be more mature) it could differ them enough from marvel for it to work. That way people are gonna be like ok JL is coming, I´ll watch Flash and I´ll watch WW, as its a set up for the next big cinematic event the Justice League. DC should have started this like a year ago. They still could pull it off, but doing a JL movie just like that, to compete with the avengers is stupid, and if it isn´t good, they will seriously damage themselves. As I´ve said if Marvel can believe in Antman, The Flash and WW should be a walk in the park for DC. This superhero craze won´t last forever and they should capatalize now.

@Press Oblivion: @gokuwarrior:

Avatar image for drgnx
#148 Posted by drgnx (3971 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:
@jphulk26 said:

@drgnx said:

@gokuwarrior:

I also don't see a movie just increasing sales of comics unless the comics themselves are good, meaning once the person picks up the issue, they want to keep reading it because it is good. There is also the topic of limited budget, if someone is going to buy x amount of comics, they would have to drop something to get a new title. There are a lot more nuances in that, that I'd rather not explore right now, but hope you get my point.

Basically DC is looking at things from a Franchise perspective, for each character and their universe as a whole. My main concern when I read your posts (and sorry if I'm misreading your intentions) is you think they just need to market her better by throwing out more media to popularize her more. But they need to figure out how to market her media and ensure there is in fact a market for that form of media, and accept that some forms off media might actually be niche and focus on areas that have a wider fan-base.

Batman has always been strong, I mean look at the Adam west show, that was popular even in the 90s, and some still love it. Even Superman shows don't have that type of staying power, it could just be Batman is more appealing in more forms of media.

I really agree with your point here, but I think what Gokuwarrior and I believe is something different. I think its about awareness of the character in general, who she is, what she is about. To quote something I wrote recently on another post about the affect media and promotion has on a character:

"The Avengers and Dark Knight Movie have changed things. (to paraphrase The Joker)

It is clear that comic book movies now have become a main marketing platform for comic characters as the market for comic movies appeal has widened, so everyone thinks suddenly superheroes are cool. This was not the case in recent history. This has been a very slow progression of lesser known Superheroes like the Xmen, Wolverine, Iron Man etc infiltrating popular culture and taking Supermans spot light.

The gasp I heard at the end of the Avengers movie when Thanos came up was massive, and made me laugh, because it was a two second pause between the first and the second. The first from 10 comic fans who actually knew who he was, the second from the other kids including myself who wanted to pretend they were in on it as well. Now you could ask almost any kid in the world and they now know who Thanos is, and can tell you stuff about him. In past comic movies didn´t have that impact, so you are right about comic movies before The Dark Knight, Iron Man and The Avengers, but wrong about movies marketing comic characters now. Fact, we are heading slowly into a new golden age for comics. If it isn´t for monthly publications it will be for solo graphic novels surrounding the characters being marketted in film and other media. I do have stats for that by the way.

Historically speaking it is also easy to see that Batmans film career has helped in comic sales, (It also helped attract a great deal of talent to work on Batman projects as did Superman in the 70s which in fact even Mark Waid has admitted to several times; he wouldn´t be a comic writer if it wasn´t for Reeve´s superman), and Xmens cartoon certainly had a great deal of impact on sales of X-Men comics in the 90s. Obviously it is not a full proof magic formula, people are not as you pointed out going to watch a bad Hulk movie and then buy the comic or vice versa. What often happens rather is that comic book enthusiasts get into comics much later in life than their first experience with a comic character they like. They may watch the movies when they are very young, think a character is cool, watch the movies again and again; and then guess what, when they become interested in comics, guess which ones they decide to look at first. For instance I loved the Incredible Hulk Bill Bixby, when I was a kid, would watch it all the time, but I didn´t therefore think, I´m going to buy a Hulk comic. It doesn´t work like that. But years later, when I got into comics through the X-Men cartoon; my thought was, ok what other heroes do I like, and what came to mind was the Batman film from the 90s and The Hulk from the TV show growing up. Thats how you build an awareness of a character, that later will translate into comic sales. Its not oh watched the film next day buy the comic, of course not. But during this time when comics are big and names are being established for a younger generation, DC has to use the media arm of their organisation if they are going to be competitive in comics in future. Then as well they have to make sure the quality of the comic is good as well. Because when people first start buying comics they will look for characters ones who had an impact in other media like cartoons, movies, and videogames when they were young. They also look for Graphic Novels and Comic events. If Elektra, Punisher and Daredevil films didn´t work to increase the sales of their comics in the long term thats because their films weren´t considered that cool, a generation wasn´t profoundly impacted by them. But the generation that are eating up Batman comics now are the generation that grew up on the films and animated show which had huge cultural impact. Just like the generation who bought Perrez´s Wonder Woman, grew up on the 70s TV show.

I´d also like to add that with WW, the only image the general public or even comic reading public have in their head is her from 70s show, in the invisible plane that looked like a bottle, and from the recent JL animated series, where she was hardly depicted in the greatest light. Now I actually love the 70s show, but still it was a bit goofy for our modern cynical tastes and WW as a character has developed alot more since then, into something a lot more pallitable for our generation, if she is to succeed in future and have interest from writers as well as from comic fans then the new image has to be presented to the world. No one who hasn´t read Wonder Woman (in the general public) would think WW is bad ass enough to personally blind herself with acid to win a fight with Medusa, people think she´s too busy twirling around in glitter for that. Thats the problem with WW. As good as her show was in the 70s its left an indelible media image imprinted on peoples minds that needs to be changed. We still have the (really good but out dated) Lynda Carter image of a woman twirling in glitter and turning into WW. I doubt if the original Batman movie had been as campy as Adam Wests show, or had not even been made, Batman wouldn´t be half as popular as he is now. Now I´m happy they didn´t make a WW in the vein of a Christopher Reeves style WW movie, because I think now in a new era at this time, when friends I know who have never talked about superheroes before, are suddenly actually quite interested in the latest movies would actually be willing to give a darker edgier WW film a chance. You have to recognise Iron Man, Dark Knight and Avengers and I belive Man Of Steel next year have changed the game. Who ever realizes - Marvel or DC that that could translate into giving some of their female characters a chance - first (if handled correctly i.e. the film, or animated series is genuinely edgy cool and hip) will I believe rake it in, if not in comics at first (thats a more long term investment, which will need good writing in solo comics that won´t cause confusion and graphic novels), certainly in the short term in box office, toys and comic related products. Its a gamble, but one well worth it. Just look at films like The Hunger Games with female leads. Wonder Woman could kind of be like that for comics if done well. We need a younger, edgier, hipper media representation, and with all the dark Greek Mythology, the feminist appeal of her mythology, the warrior stuff, plus WW is kinda easy on the eyes, that could translate into a mega hit if handled well. She could potentially appeal to men and women a like.

@colonyofcells said:

Things are eternally changing and rearranging and we should expect more future reboots, retcons, revamps for Wonder Woman. Dc is doing the right thing in updating Wonder Woman every now and then, so Wonder Woman is getting the right treatment. Warner cannot just throw money at dc characters bec. Warner already lost tons of money in marketing the flop Green Lantern movie.

One, I think thats a bit short sighted, Green Lantern was a flop because it was bad. Its reviews were terrible, and it was handled awfully. Second, it actually did quite well in the first weekend, but suffered from word of mouth. The fact is hype, timing and strategy is half the job, the second is putting a good product out there. People might say well, what about Watchmen? or Dredd? I personally am baffeled that Watchmen didn´t do better, but I think people were expecting more of a lighthearted fair than they got and ultimately, I think that movie has done DC more good than harm actually. But what the Watchmen and Dredd missed was the right platform to launch these characters on. Marvel got it completely. Great strategy, set up a marvel universe with Avengers as the end goal. I think are crazy not to do the same. if it works it works. And so what if Marvel claimed they are copying them, which they never will; if DC springboard solo films that are good and treated like Nolan did for Batman Begins (meaning the tone will be more mature) it could differ them enough from marvel for it to work. That way people are gonna be like ok JL is coming, I´ll watch Flash and I´ll watch WW, as its a set up for the next big cinematic event the Justice League. DC should have started this like a year ago. They still could pull it off, but doing a JL movie just like that, to compete with the avengers is stupid, and if it isn´t good, they will seriously damage themselves. As I´ve said if Marvel can believe in Antman, The Flash and WW should be a walk in the park for DC. This superhero craze won´t last forever and they should capatalize now.

@Press Oblivion: @gokuwarrior:

I know that we occasionally have delayed responses, but 5 years...

Avatar image for klaus
#149 Posted by Klaus (2040 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for jphulk26
#150 Posted by jphulk26 (2377 posts) - - Show Bio
@drgnx said:
@jphulk26 said:
@jphulk26 said:

@drgnx said:

@gokuwarrior:

I also don't see a movie just increasing sales of comics unless the comics themselves are good, meaning once the person picks up the issue, they want to keep reading it because it is good. There is also the topic of limited budget, if someone is going to buy x amount of comics, they would have to drop something to get a new title. There are a lot more nuances in that, that I'd rather not explore right now, but hope you get my point.

Basically DC is looking at things from a Franchise perspective, for each character and their universe as a whole. My main concern when I read your posts (and sorry if I'm misreading your intentions) is you think they just need to market her better by throwing out more media to popularize her more. But they need to figure out how to market her media and ensure there is in fact a market for that form of media, and accept that some forms off media might actually be niche and focus on areas that have a wider fan-base.

Batman has always been strong, I mean look at the Adam west show, that was popular even in the 90s, and some still love it. Even Superman shows don't have that type of staying power, it could just be Batman is more appealing in more forms of media.

I really agree with your point here, but I think what Gokuwarrior and I believe is something different. I think its about awareness of the character in general, who she is, what she is about. To quote something I wrote recently on another post about the affect media and promotion has on a character:

"The Avengers and Dark Knight Movie have changed things. (to paraphrase The Joker)

It is clear that comic book movies now have become a main marketing platform for comic characters as the market for comic movies appeal has widened, so everyone thinks suddenly superheroes are cool. This was not the case in recent history. This has been a very slow progression of lesser known Superheroes like the Xmen, Wolverine, Iron Man etc infiltrating popular culture and taking Supermans spot light.

The gasp I heard at the end of the Avengers movie when Thanos came up was massive, and made me laugh, because it was a two second pause between the first and the second. The first from 10 comic fans who actually knew who he was, the second from the other kids including myself who wanted to pretend they were in on it as well. Now you could ask almost any kid in the world and they now know who Thanos is, and can tell you stuff about him. In past comic movies didn´t have that impact, so you are right about comic movies before The Dark Knight, Iron Man and The Avengers, but wrong about movies marketing comic characters now. Fact, we are heading slowly into a new golden age for comics. If it isn´t for monthly publications it will be for solo graphic novels surrounding the characters being marketted in film and other media. I do have stats for that by the way.

Historically speaking it is also easy to see that Batmans film career has helped in comic sales, (It also helped attract a great deal of talent to work on Batman projects as did Superman in the 70s which in fact even Mark Waid has admitted to several times; he wouldn´t be a comic writer if it wasn´t for Reeve´s superman), and Xmens cartoon certainly had a great deal of impact on sales of X-Men comics in the 90s. Obviously it is not a full proof magic formula, people are not as you pointed out going to watch a bad Hulk movie and then buy the comic or vice versa. What often happens rather is that comic book enthusiasts get into comics much later in life than their first experience with a comic character they like. They may watch the movies when they are very young, think a character is cool, watch the movies again and again; and then guess what, when they become interested in comics, guess which ones they decide to look at first. For instance I loved the Incredible Hulk Bill Bixby, when I was a kid, would watch it all the time, but I didn´t therefore think, I´m going to buy a Hulk comic. It doesn´t work like that. But years later, when I got into comics through the X-Men cartoon; my thought was, ok what other heroes do I like, and what came to mind was the Batman film from the 90s and The Hulk from the TV show growing up. Thats how you build an awareness of a character, that later will translate into comic sales. Its not oh watched the film next day buy the comic, of course not. But during this time when comics are big and names are being established for a younger generation, DC has to use the media arm of their organisation if they are going to be competitive in comics in future. Then as well they have to make sure the quality of the comic is good as well. Because when people first start buying comics they will look for characters ones who had an impact in other media like cartoons, movies, and videogames when they were young. They also look for Graphic Novels and Comic events. If Elektra, Punisher and Daredevil films didn´t work to increase the sales of their comics in the long term thats because their films weren´t considered that cool, a generation wasn´t profoundly impacted by them. But the generation that are eating up Batman comics now are the generation that grew up on the films and animated show which had huge cultural impact. Just like the generation who bought Perrez´s Wonder Woman, grew up on the 70s TV show.

I´d also like to add that with WW, the only image the general public or even comic reading public have in their head is her from 70s show, in the invisible plane that looked like a bottle, and from the recent JL animated series, where she was hardly depicted in the greatest light. Now I actually love the 70s show, but still it was a bit goofy for our modern cynical tastes and WW as a character has developed alot more since then, into something a lot more pallitable for our generation, if she is to succeed in future and have interest from writers as well as from comic fans then the new image has to be presented to the world. No one who hasn´t read Wonder Woman (in the general public) would think WW is bad ass enough to personally blind herself with acid to win a fight with Medusa, people think she´s too busy twirling around in glitter for that. Thats the problem with WW. As good as her show was in the 70s its left an indelible media image imprinted on peoples minds that needs to be changed. We still have the (really good but out dated) Lynda Carter image of a woman twirling in glitter and turning into WW. I doubt if the original Batman movie had been as campy as Adam Wests show, or had not even been made, Batman wouldn´t be half as popular as he is now. Now I´m happy they didn´t make a WW in the vein of a Christopher Reeves style WW movie, because I think now in a new era at this time, when friends I know who have never talked about superheroes before, are suddenly actually quite interested in the latest movies would actually be willing to give a darker edgier WW film a chance. You have to recognise Iron Man, Dark Knight and Avengers and I belive Man Of Steel next year have changed the game. Who ever realizes - Marvel or DC that that could translate into giving some of their female characters a chance - first (if handled correctly i.e. the film, or animated series is genuinely edgy cool and hip) will I believe rake it in, if not in comics at first (thats a more long term investment, which will need good writing in solo comics that won´t cause confusion and graphic novels), certainly in the short term in box office, toys and comic related products. Its a gamble, but one well worth it. Just look at films like The Hunger Games with female leads. Wonder Woman could kind of be like that for comics if done well. We need a younger, edgier, hipper media representation, and with all the dark Greek Mythology, the feminist appeal of her mythology, the warrior stuff, plus WW is kinda easy on the eyes, that could translate into a mega hit if handled well. She could potentially appeal to men and women a like.

@colonyofcells said:

Things are eternally changing and rearranging and we should expect more future reboots, retcons, revamps for Wonder Woman. Dc is doing the right thing in updating Wonder Woman every now and then, so Wonder Woman is getting the right treatment. Warner cannot just throw money at dc characters bec. Warner already lost tons of money in marketing the flop Green Lantern movie.

One, I think thats a bit short sighted, Green Lantern was a flop because it was bad. Its reviews were terrible, and it was handled awfully. Second, it actually did quite well in the first weekend, but suffered from word of mouth. The fact is hype, timing and strategy is half the job, the second is putting a good product out there. People might say well, what about Watchmen? or Dredd? I personally am baffeled that Watchmen didn´t do better, but I think people were expecting more of a lighthearted fair than they got and ultimately, I think that movie has done DC more good than harm actually. But what the Watchmen and Dredd missed was the right platform to launch these characters on. Marvel got it completely. Great strategy, set up a marvel universe with Avengers as the end goal. I think are crazy not to do the same. if it works it works. And so what if Marvel claimed they are copying them, which they never will; if DC springboard solo films that are good and treated like Nolan did for Batman Begins (meaning the tone will be more mature) it could differ them enough from marvel for it to work. That way people are gonna be like ok JL is coming, I´ll watch Flash and I´ll watch WW, as its a set up for the next big cinematic event the Justice League. DC should have started this like a year ago. They still could pull it off, but doing a JL movie just like that, to compete with the avengers is stupid, and if it isn´t good, they will seriously damage themselves. As I´ve said if Marvel can believe in Antman, The Flash and WW should be a walk in the park for DC. This superhero craze won´t last forever and they should capatalize now.

@Press Oblivion: @gokuwarrior:

I know that we occasionally have delayed responses, but 5 years...

I guess people can´t argue with the truth. I was so right it hurts.

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