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    Wonder Woman

    Character » Wonder Woman appears in 8953 issues.

    The Amazon princess, blessed with god-like super abilities, Wonder Woman is one of Earth's most powerful defenders of peace, justice, and equality and a member of the Justice League. She is considered an archetype for many heroines outside of comic book. Her initial origin depicted her as a clay baby brought to life by patron goddess Aphrodite, but in recent years she has been depicted as the daughter of Zeus and Amazon queen Hippolyta.

    what wonder woman needs for 2015.

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    gokuwarrior

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    #1  Edited By gokuwarrior

    it seems azzarello will stay until th end of 2014,i know it's hard but we must be strong.

    when azzarello is gone,the next writters will have a hard time cleaning the mess that azzarello left,so let's make a list of the things diana will need to be herself again,and this goes for JL version and the other versions from the new 52 as well.

    we need:

    1)the traditional amazons and not rapists,killers and liars.

    2)a good supporting cast that makes WW evolves in her character,characters that interact with her in different level and not characters that are just there,with one one line,SAVE ME!,all the time.

    3)combination of her mythology and the modern world,3 years of mythology is enough,we need to see other villans and how WW deals with issues from the modern world and how she interacts with people.

    4)WW must be the center of atention,after 3 years being caught up in the middle of a baby hunt,and allthe things around her happening because of the baby,or zeus,it's time to get an arc where diana is the center of atention and things involve her and change the course of her life.

    5)an active WW,after years of reading a WW reacting to things all the time instead of trying to fix one problem at a time,it's time to see her take the initiative.

    6)personality and morals,no more bipolar diana,in azz book one moment she is sweet and forgiving,the other she doesn't think it twice to threaten and punish,true WW always used words first,and violence was only the last resort,and she never tried to intimidate people to do what she wants,it's time to go back to that WW's personality.

    7)clay origin,no more female hercules or xena ripped off,time to get her unique origin back.

    8)no more superman/wonder woman,they don't work well as a couple.

    9)be more involved with the rest of the JL,she has been treated like an elseworld story,almost 0 interaction with other characters.

    10)more hero,in 3 years we haven't seen her doing many heroic things,it's time to see her around more often saving people,defeating good opponents and being the hero,after all that is what she is,a super hero .

    so the next writters have a lot of work,let's pray to the gods to get the real wonder woman back.

    what other things do you think she will need for 2015?.

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    LyraFay

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    Hopefully she's done right in the Batman/Superman movie.

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    PeppeyHare

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    #3  Edited By PeppeyHare

    What an original thread

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    Outside_85

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    Less whining on the web boards.

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    modernww2fare

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    #5  Edited By modernww2fare

    Big, full breasts and a fit bubble butt

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    BR_Havoc

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    #6  Edited By BR_Havoc

    I really do not get the hate for Azz, His Wonder Woman has been fantastic and one of the few good things to come from the new 52. Her cast mates work well and Wonder Woman is written as a mature, intelligent adult something that has been rare as of late. I do not understand you saying she is not a hero she is protecting her brother from the forces of evil and her personality matches the protective nature that she has developed plus she is fighting gods there not a talk it out kind of people.

    I agree that the Super Wonderful couple needs to end and fast but I have loved what Azz has been doing so far, Plus we all know this will be changed in a few years so no need to be bitter.

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    gokuwarrior

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    @br_havoc said:

    I really do not get the hate for Azz, His Wonder Woman has been fantastic and one of the few good things to come from the new 52. Her cast mates work well and Wonder Woman is written as a mature, intelligent adult something that has been rare as of late. I do not understand you saying she is not a hero she is protecting her brother from the forces of evil and her personality matches the protective nature that she has developed plus she is fighting gods there not a talk it out kind of people.

    I agree that the Super Wonderful couple needs to end and fast but I have loved what Azz has been doing so far, Plus we all know this will be changed in a few years so no need to be bitter.

    you didn't read my list?,many things are wrong with azz run.

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    Jonny_Anonymous

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    Your first mistake was when you said "when Azz is gone"

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    BR_Havoc

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    @gokuwarrior: Meh that is your opinion, Like many people I think you just did not like Azz sticking closer to Greek mythology than DC cannon and that is fine but you are missing an extremely well written comic.

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    gokuwarrior

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    Your first mistake was when you said "when Azz is gone"

    why?,he is gonna leave eventually,thank god.

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    deactivated-5d2b83d5a0d79

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    gokuwarrior

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    Outside_85

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    #13  Edited By Outside_85

    Now I read the list and here's the replies:

    1. The Amazons have been killers and have been lying since 1986. And what do you mean by traditional? Marstons summer camp?
    2. She has one of the best supporting casts in comics right now, if anything a new one would be tumble down a hill.
    3. She's surrounded by people already, so many in fact quite a few people already complain about her being choked. And part of this story is about Diana defending part of the modern world from her Olympian family.
    4. She's been the center of attention since issue one.
    5. Superheroes are by their nature a reactive force, they don't go out and beat the stuffing out of someone or something for something they haven't done yet.
    6. So whats your problem with Azzarello's Diana? She's more well rounded than any other portrayals of her on stands today.
    7. Please, it's not original.
    8. The one thing we can agree on.
    9. And thank Olympus for small mercies she hasn't been involved with any of that.
    10. Weird, she's defending a mother, her kid and the world from malicious, callous and petty gods and she's not a hero in your eyes?
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    jphulk26

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    #14  Edited By jphulk26

    @outside_85 said:

    Less whining on the web boards.

    @br_havoc said:

    I really do not get the hate for Azz, His Wonder Woman has been fantastic and one of the few good things to come from the new 52. Her cast mates work well and Wonder Woman is written as a mature, intelligent adult something that has been rare as of late. I do not understand you saying she is not a hero she is protecting her brother from the forces of evil and her personality matches the protective nature that she has developed plus she is fighting gods there not a talk it out kind of people.

    I agree that the Super Wonderful couple needs to end and fast but I have loved what Azz has been doing so far, Plus we all know this will be changed in a few years so no need to be bitter.

    put it this way, if you don´t understand you never will. i have the first collection of the book and i regret with every strand of my being that i bought it. sorry some people like steve, etta, veronica, venessa etc, some people thought perhaps ww villains in particular ares and dr. psycho had great potential. some people who read rucka, to date the most successful ww run critically and commercially see no inherent problem with character.

    i get it being born of clay is unrelatable, but being strck by lightning and chemicals makes sense... the fact is just sit back a moment, imagine your favorite character, then imagine someone came along and changed everything you loved about them. or imagine some one came and took away your family and replaced them with a "better" one, and people kept going why you complaining about losing your family, you´ve got a better one now. wouldn´t that tick you off. i think this is what goku and i, and many who have been rub off this site have to deal with. i have requested many times that they seperate the ww forum in to two, pre 52 and new 52, because on a serious note we´re talking about two different characters and it ends up just seeming like fans of either are trolling eachother. i will ask once again, because i don´t want to have to read any praise of this current book. i hate it just like i hate MOS. its just not superman or ww.

    1. they haven't done yet.
    2. So whats your problem with Azzarello's Diana? She's more well rounded than any other portrayals of her on stands today.
    3. Please, it's not original.
    4. The one thing we can agree on.
    5. And thank Olympus for small mercies she hasn't been involved with any of that.
    6. Weird, she's defending a mother, her kid and the world from malicious, callous and petty gods and she's not a hero in your eyes?

    these kind of statement literally make me wanna reach in the screen find who wrote it and knock some sense into them.

    Either you haven´t read any other run of ww or i don´t know. hell even lynda carters ww was a more relatable and well rounded character than AZZ EMO WOMAN.

    BEFORE she was saving the world from going into wars that could destroy the whole planet. scheming super-villains who wished to plunge the world into world war 3, or from the Olympians going to war with eachother. now she babysits her brother. does she atleast get 20 dollars for her efforts. if a movie was ever made of this mess, it would flop so badly.

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    r2datu

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    #15  Edited By r2datu

    @gokuwarrior said:

    it seems azzarello will stay until th end of 2014,i know it's hard but we must be strong.

    when azzarello is gone,the next writters will have a hard time cleaning the mess that azzarello left,so let's make a list of the things diana will need to be herself again,and this goes for JL version and the other versions from the new 52 as well.

    we need:

    1)the traditional amazons and not rapists,killers and liars.

    2)a good supporting cast that makes WW evolves in her character,characters that interact with her in different level and not characters that are just there,with one one line,SAVE ME!,all the time.

    3)combination of her mythology and the modern world,3 years of mythology is enough,we need to see other villans and how WW deals with issues from the modern world and how she interacts with people.

    4)WW must be the center of atention,after 3 years being caught up in the middle of a baby hunt,and allthe things around her happening because of the baby,or zeus,it's time to get an arc where diana is the center of atention and things involve her and change the course of her life.

    5)an active WW,after years of reading a WW reacting to things all the time instead of trying to fix one problem at a time,it's time to see her take the initiative.

    6)personality and morals,no more bipolar diana,in azz book one moment she is sweet and forgiving,the other she doesn't think it twice to threaten and punish,true WW always used words first,and violence was only the last resort,and she never tried to intimidate people to do what she wants,it's time to go back to that WW's personality.

    7)clay origin,no more female hercules or xena ripped off,time to get her unique origin back.

    8)no more superman/wonder woman,they don't work well as a couple.

    9)be more involved with the rest of the JL,she has been treated like an elseworld story,almost 0 interaction with other characters.

    10)more hero,in 3 years we haven't seen her doing many heroic things,it's time to see her around more often saving people,defeating good opponents and being the hero,after all that is what she is,a super hero .

    so the next writters have a lot of work,let's pray to the gods to get the real wonder woman back.

    what other things do you think she will need for 2015?.

    I like Azzarello's run because it in many ways is so similar to Rucka's run. In fact, the way he portrays Diana is almost exactly the same as Rucka's version. Diplomatic and sweet but with a lionnes' rage when her pride is threatened. Azz's Wonder Woman is actually a lot less bloodthirsty and violent than Simone's version as well, so point number 6 is confusing. Whatever the problems are with this book, the personality of Wonder Woman is sound and consistent with her previous versions.

    So the "real wonder woman" comment is confusing, for anyone who has read Rucka or Simone's run. You may like it or dislike it, but as a long time fan of the character, there's nothing wrong with her actual personality.

    It should also be noted that it's the most critically acclaimed of the relaunch outside of maybe Batman.

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    gokuwarrior

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    Now I read the list and here's the replies:

    1. The Amazons have been killers and have been lying since 1986. And what do you mean by traditional? Marstons summer camp?
    2. She has one of the best supporting casts in comics right now, if anything a new one would be tumble down a hill.
    3. She's surrounded by people already, so many in fact quite a few people already complain about her being choked. And part of this story is about Diana defending part of the modern world from her Olympian family.
    4. She's been the center of attention since issue one.
    5. Superheroes are by their nature a reactive force, they don't go out and beat the stuffing out of someone or something for something they haven't done yet.
    6. So whats your problem with Azzarello's Diana? She's more well rounded than any other portrayals of her on stands today.
    7. Please, it's not original.
    8. The one thing we can agree on.
    9. And thank Olympus for small mercies she hasn't been involved with any of that.
    10. Weird, she's defending a mother, her kid and the world from malicious, callous and petty gods and she's not a hero in your eyes?

    of course you aren't going to the flaws that i mentioned,you are bias,i won't have the same debate i have had with you million times before,so let it flow.

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    gokuwarrior

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    @r2datu: his WW doesn't remaind me of ruka run,not at all,i don't feel her as the main character,i don't see her doing heroic stuff,her supporting characters don't have proper development,they do nothing for her,they aren't true supportes,they are just there fetting in trouble all the time,they don't bring anything to the table,and the story has become really boring at this point,going for the third year and you can still summarize the whole run in one sentence,gods hunting zeus baby,the story takes one step per year,seriously.

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    PeppeyHare

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    lol at people trying to reason with the OP

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    gokuwarrior

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    lol at people trying to reason with the OP

    LOL at you pretending to be rational.

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    PeppeyHare

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    #20  Edited By PeppeyHare

    @gokuwarrior: Don't you have another 400 hundred anti Azz threads to go make?

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    Lvenger

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    deactivated-5d3f071d30d9f

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    Her knowned villiains and enemies being on her book and not on other heroes

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    gokuwarrior

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    #24  Edited By gokuwarrior

    @lvenger: @saren: @peppeyhare: she has better fans,the ones that don't call azz her best run and appreciate what she used to be.

    if you aren't part of the solution,at least don't be part of the problem.

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    PeppeyHare

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    Lvenger

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    @gokuwarrior: When did I ever say Azz's run was the best? I openly admit that Perez, Rucka and arguably Simone and Heinberg have written the best Wonder Woman runs. That I don't deny. But despite angry complaints on the web, a lot of people think Azz's run is one of the best. Key difference here. And those people also rate it as one of DC's best books even if sales aren't the best. Quantity does not equal quality.

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    Billy Batson

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    #28  Edited By Billy Batson
    No Caption Provided

    BB

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    gokuwarrior

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    @peppeyhare: @peppeyhare:the problerms are there,i listed all the main problems,you can like those things that listed as problems but i don't like them,i don't agree with people calling it the best comic of the new 52 and i don't agree with people calling it her best run,and i'm tired of the never ending baby arc,WW lacks of presence as a hero,lack of development from her supporting characters,lack of goals and development of her life besides the baby she protects,etc,etc.

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    gokuwarrior

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    @lvenger said:

    @gokuwarrior: When did I ever say Azz's run was the best? I openly admit that Perez, Rucka and arguably Simone and Heinberg have written the best Wonder Woman runs. That I don't deny. But despite angry complaints on the web, a lot of people think Azz's run is one of the best. Key difference here. And those people also rate it as one of DC's best books even if sales aren't the best. Quantity does not equal quality.

    i listed all the main problems,you can like those things that listed as problems but i don't like them,i don't agree with people calling it the best comic of the new 52 and i don't agree with people calling it her best run,and i'm tired of the never ending baby arc,WW lacks of presence as a hero,lack of development from her supporting characters,lack of goals and development of her life besides the baby she protects,etc,etc.

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    PeppeyHare

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    @gokuwarrior: The problem isn't that you have an unpopular opinion it's that you feel the need to constantly complain about the series over and over again, and insult others/ call others factually wrong because they don't agree.

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    ssejllenrad

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    I love Azzarello's run. Guess I'm not a good fan even though I've been reading her titles since the 90s and have even backtracked her books to pre-crisis. Yep I'm not a good fan at all cause I liked Azzarello's run.

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    gokuwarrior

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    #33  Edited By gokuwarrior

    I love Azzarello's run. Guess I'm not a good fan even though I've been reading her titles since the 90s and have even backtracked her books to pre-crisis. Yep I'm not a good fan at all cause I liked Azzarello's run.

    that is not true,and nobody called azz fans bad fans,you can like those things that listed as problems but i don't like them,i don't agree with people calling it the best comic of the new 52 and i don't agree with people calling it her best run,and i'm tired of the never ending baby arc,WW lacks of presence as a hero,lack of development from her supporting characters,lack of goals and development of her life besides the baby she protects,etc,etc.

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    r2datu

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    #34  Edited By r2datu

    @gokuwarrior said:

    @r2datu: his WW doesn't remaind me of ruka run,not at all,i don't feel her as the main character,i don't see her doing heroic stuff,her supporting characters don't have proper development,they do nothing for her,they aren't true supportes,they are just there fetting in trouble all the time,they don't bring anything to the table,and the story has become really boring at this point,going for the third year and you can still summarize the whole run in one sentence,gods hunting zeus baby,the story takes one step per year,seriously.

    How?

    What is so starkly different about Rucka's Wonder Woman and Azz's Wonder Woman? They're both warrior diplomats who will extend the olive branch first and are trusting to a fault, but when their family (Rucka's being her employees at the embassy and Azz's being her patchwork adoptive family) is theatened, they become a lionness.

    http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6672/3ok7.jpg

    Her giving advice to Orion, talking about a common theme of Wonder Woman dealing with other's perceived notions of perfection.

    http://journeyintoawesome.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/wonder-woman-and-siracca.jpg

    Wonder Woman takes a child under her wing, much like she took the members of her staff under her win in Rucka's run.

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mHJrN9f_u9M/T-UEM4snrUI/AAAAAAAAGIg/KTS-UGuH_40/s1600/wonderwoman10c%2Bwonder%2Bwoman%2Bloves%2Beveryone.jpg

    A call back to the idea of love as one of Wonder Woman's defining character traits, again similar to Rucka's portrayal which culminated in her being chosen as a Star Saphire.

    Even the moment where she kills Ares, that harkens back to the ideas of Rucka and Simone of Diana as a pragmatist who is willing to do what is necessary to end the bloodshed (WW killing Max Lord in Rucka's run and stating her willingness to euthanize an agonised Flash in JLA Classified).

    So to check it off a list of Rucka and Simone's main points about Wonder Woman:

    Compassionate? Check.

    Slow to anger but terrible when roused? Check.

    Tendency to "adopt" individuals into a surrogate family (Embassy staff in Rucka, Gorilla Knights in Simone)? Check.

    Fiercely protective of said family? Check.

    Struggles with her often black and white perceptions of the truth (Hiketaia in Rucka's run, Golden Perfect from Kelly's JLA)? Check.

    Defined by deep, instinctual love for all living things? Check.

    This is a quote from Greg Rucka:

    "Diana's always been an amazing character to me, for so many reasons. [For example], she is an exile from her own world in a way; she can't really go back to Themyscira and live there happily ever after. She's the only Amazon to have left and have spent a substantial amount of time in the Patriarch's World. The other element is that she's the only Amazon to have been born on Themyscira—Diana is the last soul the patron goddesses were harboring and Hippolyta said 'I want a child,' so Diana is absolutely unique. The mandate is just—all these paradoxes in the character. She's an Amazon. Amazons are warriors, they're a martial culture. They can promote belief in peace in part because they've been living in absolute seclusion and isolation for so long and also because if you mess with them, they'll kill you. It's easy to dictate peace when you're the baddest [warriors] on the block. Diana comes from this culture where she's bred for war, but is able to reap the rewards of 3,000 years of peace—the art, the science, the philosophy. Add to that these divine elements—like the wisdom of Athena and so on—and you've got this person who has all these ingredients and they are, in many ways, pulling her in different directions, but she somehow manages to unify them all for a single direction.

    “She's not going crazy, she's not neurotic—you look at every other superhero ever and they are all malfunctioning in some way. In some way, they are internally malfunctioning—Diana really isn't, even with all the paradoxes and conflicts, she may be the most well-adjusted superhero out there. At least when I look at her, that's what I see: she's somebody who knows what she's about, has absolute conviction in what she believes, and is willing to fight for those things she believes, be it with words or swords."

    This is what makes Azz's WW click for me. She's being pulled in all these different directions by all these different forces that want something from her. But against all odds, she's managed to focus them, to unify them into a weird, patchwork family united under her banner. As Ares said, she took a gang of misfits who should have been enemies and made them into her "army". Because her perception of herself and her moral fibre is so strong, her conviction is so sound, she has managed to point them in the right direction which is what this book has been all about.

    However, constantly her conviction and her morals are being shaken as her perceptions of right and wrong and the truth are called into question, what with the lies told to her by her mother, the moral grey area of Hephaestus' actions, her adoption of Hera into the family, all finally culminating in her killing of Ares for the greater good. This has left Diana lost and her conviction thoroughly staggered. I'm interested to see what direction that is going as the family continues to develop as a whole.

    And with your earlier point about the Amazon's being too bloodthirsty, here's how Greg Rucka and Phil Jiminez summed them up:

    “We’re isolationists, and if you mess with us, we’ll kill you” Wondercon 2010

    So yeah.

    While Azz's run is not the best for me (Rucka's is) it is certainly up there in my opinion. My ranking would go:

    1. Rucka
    2. Perez
    3. Simone
    4. Azzarello
    5. Jiminez

    He certainly has a better handle on the character than the likes of Jodi Picoult, Messner-Loebs and J. Michael Straczynski.

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    TDK_1997

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    I can't understand why WW's fans always complain about Azz.The run is really good and the other thing that a character can always use a cnange in her status quo and if it's good why complain.I understand that none of her big villains have made an appearance but the storytelling and story build up isn't bad.

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    jphulk26

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    #36  Edited By jphulk26

    @r2datu: funny how azz thinks that ruckas run sucked and every run before his was crap.

    @lvenger said:

    @gokuwarrior: When did I ever say Azz's run was the best? I openly admit that Perez, Rucka and arguably Simone and Heinberg have written the best Wonder Woman runs. That I don't deny. But despite angry complaints on the web, a lot of people think Azz's run is one of the best. Key difference here. And those people also rate it as one of DC's best books even if sales aren't the best. Quantity does not equal quality.

    you´re right storywise this run of ww easily makes the top 10,3 if not top 5. Its not all bad at allñ. but to be honest I just can´t swallow the changes to the character. some call me a purist, I don´t think so, if changes to a character make sense and show appreciation and love for who the character was, it would make sense, but just erasing a character and replacing it with someone else doesn´t show me any respect for who she is. To be honest perhaps the story in someways is good, but I´ve honestly enjoyed worst runs of ww more, that actually deal with the character I PAID TO READ.

    To everyone, stop bullying Goku. He´s not closed minded, he´s just passionate about the wonder woman.

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    r2datu

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    #37  Edited By r2datu

    @jphulk26 said:

    @r2datu: funny how azz thinks that ruckas run sucked and every run before his was crap.

    @lvenger said:

    @gokuwarrior: When did I ever say Azz's run was the best? I openly admit that Perez, Rucka and arguably Simone and Heinberg have written the best Wonder Woman runs. That I don't deny. But despite angry complaints on the web, a lot of people think Azz's run is one of the best. Key difference here. And those people also rate it as one of DC's best books even if sales aren't the best. Quantity does not equal quality.

    you´re right storywise this run of ww easily makes the top 10,3 if not top 5. Its not all bad at allñ. but to be honest I just can´t swallow the changes to the character. some call me a purist, I don´t think so, if changes to a character make sense and show appreciation and love for who the character was, it would make sense, but just erasing a character and replacing it with someone else doesn´t show me any respect for who she is. To be honest perhaps the story in someways is good, but I´ve honestly enjoyed worst runs of ww more, that actually deal with the character I PAID TO READ.

    To everyone, stop bullying Goku. He´s not closed minded, he´s just passionate about the wonder woman.

    In what way is she different from Simone or Rucka's portrayal?

    I mean, I can understand definitely disliking the origin and supporting cast change but really, personality wise, how is she different? Do you disagree with my write up that I posted previously?

    The only moment in Azz's run that has been out of character for me and not meshing with previous incarnations of the character, was when she assaulted Orion. But even then, even Gail Simone had some shoddy character moments in her run and even Greg Rucka wrote Cheetah as wildly out of character in her first appearance (he even admitted that he didn't understand her until his run had finished).

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    gokuwarrior

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    @jphulk26: did azzarello really call all the wonder woman runs before him crap?.

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    r2datu

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    #39  Edited By r2datu

    @gokuwarrior said:

    @jphulk26: did azzarello really call all the wonder woman runs before him crap?.

    You never answered my write up, what about this new Wonder Woman is out of character? Keeping in mind the loose definitions I've given for Rucka and Simone's interpretations of the character.

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    jphulk26

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    #40  Edited By jphulk26

    @gokuwarrior said:

    @jphulk26: did azzarello really call all the wonder woman runs before him crap?.

    Put it this way he didn´t have alot of good things to say about them. Have you seen the JL War clip of WW? its cool. I posted it.

    r2datu - dude I´ve explained a thousand different times how she´s different from wonder woman the character. Not a diplomat, not blessed with wisdom, not as badass, the warrior priestess thing has gone, not as powerful, not symbol of peace etc etc etc etc. If you really want to know my thoughts you can check previous posts, if I find any I´ll give you a link.

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    Bezza

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    #41  Edited By Bezza

    I'd like to see WW a bit more powerful than from what I've seen in the New 52 so far and I've already stated my personal belief that some "earthbound" stories would be welcome, whilst not discounting the fact that the character is grounded in greek mythology...

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    r2datu

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    #42  Edited By r2datu

    @jphulk26 said:

    @gokuwarrior said:

    @jphulk26: did azzarello really call all the wonder woman runs before him crap?.

    Put it this way he didn´t have alot of good things to say about them. Have you seen the JL War clip of WW? its cool. I posted it.

    r2datu - dude I´ve explained a thousand different times how she´s different from wonder woman the character. Not a diplomat, not blessed with wisdom, not as badass, the warrior priestess thing has gone, not as powerful, not symbol of peace etc etc etc etc. If you really want to know my thoughts you can check previous posts, if I find any I´ll give you a link.

    Yeah man I would appreciate that, am genuinely curious ( I enjoy discussion about characters like this).

    Not a diplomat

    While not technically a diplomat (or if she is, that job is never explicitly mentioned), her solutions to situations are diplomatic such as her encounter with Siracca and with Hera.

    not blessed with wisdom

    Funnily enough I think wisdom is one of the main elements of the character and is emphasised a lot more than what it was in Simone's run. In fact, much of what she does rather than fighting is to counsel and advise enemy and friend alike.

    http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6672/3ok7.jpg

    http://journeyintoawesome.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/wonder-woman-and-siracca.jpg

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-h_iFezMoGbA/UhlNQeDB6UI/AAAAAAAAOpU/0EsTlXGMHfg/s1600/wonderwoman23a.jpg

    http://thanley.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/loveyourself1.jpg

    If anything, this aspect of the character (wisdom of Athena) is more pronounced than in any run except for Rucka and Perez. It certainly wasn't present in the vast majority of the others.

    the warrior priestess thing has gone

    It's not really present in Rucka or Simone's run to be fair.

    not symbol of peace

    What gives you that idea? Most of the time she attempts the peaceful option. This idea wasn't really present in Simone's run either (who was a little too kill happy in my opinion) and was only touched upon in Rucka's.

    not as badass, not as powerful

    I've never been too hung up on this idea, or power levels in comics at all. In my opinion, personality is more important than power levels. Keep in mind that her depiction of power in this run is actually significantly ABOVE much of what Diana displayed in Perez' initial run. Perez Diana at times struggled to lift simple trees (Cheetah once pinned her under the trunk of a fairly small sapling). Messner-Loebs Wonder Woman was LAUGHABLY weak.

    I'd also like to note that a lot of the problems cited could be perceived as problems with Perez' Wonder Woman reboot. Perez made Diana SIGNIFICANTLY weaker initially (she got more powerful later), changed her origin and completely retooled her supporting cast. Not only that, he completely changed her personality. At the very least, though this version of Wonder Woman is weaker (thankfully, the difference in scale is not quite as large as Perez's initial reboot. Diana went from pulling suns and moons to struggling with trees) her personality is essentially the same.

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    Outside_85

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    @jphulk26 said:

    1. they haven't done yet.
    2. So whats your problem with Azzarello's Diana? She's more well rounded than any other portrayals of her on stands today.
    3. Please, it's not original.
    4. The one thing we can agree on.
    5. And thank Olympus for small mercies she hasn't been involved with any of that.
    6. Weird, she's defending a mother, her kid and the world from malicious, callous and petty gods and she's not a hero in your eyes?

    these kind of statement literally make me wanna reach in the screen find who wrote it and knock some sense into them.

    Either you haven´t read any other run of ww or i don´t know. hell even lynda carters ww was a more relatable and well rounded character than AZZ EMO WOMAN.

    BEFORE she was saving the world from going into wars that could destroy the whole planet. scheming super-villains who wished to plunge the world into world war 3, or from the Olympians going to war with eachother. now she babysits her brother. does she atleast get 20 dollars for her efforts. if a movie was ever made of this mess, it would flop so badly.

    You are welcome to try, but I am not paying your dental bills.

    And for your information, I have read other runs and you can do yourself a favor and read what I am actually writing before you start threatening me with violence.

    of course you aren't going to the flaws that i mentioned,you are bias,i won't have the same debate i have had with you million times before,so let it flow.

    And what are you then? Unbiased? With all the garbage you've thrown after Azzarello for more than two years now, you are probably the most biased here.

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    jphulk26

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    @r2datu said:

    @jphulk26 said:

    @gokuwarrior said:

    @jphulk26: did azzarello really call all the wonder woman runs before him crap?.

    Put it this way he didn´t have alot of good things to say about them. Have you seen the JL War clip of WW? its cool. I posted it.

    r2datu - dude I´ve explained a thousand different times how she´s different from wonder woman the character. Not a diplomat, not blessed with wisdom, not as badass, the warrior priestess thing has gone, not as powerful, not symbol of peace etc etc etc etc. If you really want to know my thoughts you can check previous posts, if I find any I´ll give you a link.

    Yeah man I would appreciate that, am genuinely curious ( I enjoy discussion about characters like this).

    Not a diplomat

    While not technically a diplomat (or if she is, that job is never explicitly mentioned), her solutions to situations are diplomatic such as her encounter with Siracca and with Hera.

    not blessed with wisdom

    Funnily enough I think wisdom is one of the main elements of the character and is emphasised a lot more than what it was in Simone's run. In fact, much of what she does rather than fighting is to counsel and advise enemy and friend alike.

    http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6672/3ok7.jpg

    http://journeyintoawesome.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/wonder-woman-and-siracca.jpg

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-h_iFezMoGbA/UhlNQeDB6UI/AAAAAAAAOpU/0EsTlXGMHfg/s1600/wonderwoman23a.jpg

    http://thanley.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/loveyourself1.jpg

    If anything, this aspect of the character (wisdom of Athena) is more pronounced than in any run except for Rucka and Perez. It certainly wasn't present in the vast majority of the others.

    the warrior priestess thing has gone

    It's not really present in Rucka or Simone's run to be fair.

    not symbol of peace

    What gives you that idea? Most of the time she attempts the peaceful option. This idea wasn't really present in Simone's run either (who was a little too kill happy in my opinion) and was only touched upon in Rucka's.

    not as badass, not as powerful

    I've never been too hung up on this idea, or power levels in comics at all. In my opinion, personality is more important than power levels. Keep in mind that her depiction of power in this run is actually significantly ABOVE much of what Diana displayed in Perez' initial run. Perez Diana at times struggled to lift simple trees (Cheetah once pinned her under the trunk of a fairly small sapling). Messner-Loebs Wonder Woman was LAUGHABLY weak.

    I'd also like to note that a lot of the problems cited could be perceived as problems with Perez' Wonder Woman reboot. Perez made Diana SIGNIFICANTLY weaker initially (she got more powerful later), changed her origin and completely retooled her supporting cast. Not only that, he completely changed her personality. At the very least, though this version of Wonder Woman is weaker (thankfully, the difference in scale is not quite as large as Perez's initial reboot. Diana went from pulling suns and moons to struggling with trees) her personality is essentially the same.

    Look, the way I see it:

    Diplomat/Strategist:

    This is not a simple matter of whether or not she solves situations peacefully. That is not what a diplomat does exclusively or even primarily.

    A diplomat is a political representative, their because of their intelligence, political guile, strategic mind above other things.

    In previous incarnations of WW specifically Perrez, Simone and Rucka and even Marston she had this discipline, grace and strong will. She wasn´t asking for a peaceful solution, it was damn happening, and people better fall in line if they didn´t agree.

    That doesn´t mean she was kind and understanding, but her diplomacy was as skilled and strong willed as Kissinger in her own way.

    Warrior Strategist/ Wisdom Of Athena:

    I don´t exactly know how you can say in Simone´s run she WW didn´t have the wisdom of Athena. She was constantly using strategy to defeat her foes. There was a real sense of her being a master of Guerrilla warfare (no pun intended)

    Athena Was the Goddess of strategy and warfare as well as wisdom, so Simone kind of combined that into Diana´s intellect, which is how her wisdom mainly manifested itself. Alot of post Perrez especially Rucka, did the same, but I´m not going to go into it here. But if I were to choose a WW who has been most wise, fierce and a warrior priestess of sorts in defo Simone.

    I do think Simone was a little to trigger happy though, but at other times she had really inspirational moments of compàssion shown by WW. She mainly would use lethal force on Gods and such, not humans, or humanoids.

    Spiritualism of the character

    Again gone. All the gods pretty much hate or are messing with her so she no longer draw on that spiritual strength.

    I always liked that because she reminded me of a super powered, female version of Maximus from Gladiator who found themselves transported to the modern world. It was cool.

    Warrior Priestess

    Rucka was the one who pretty much defined her as that. I´d go back and read his run again if you don´t see that.

    The whole part where she´s blind but instead of asking for her sight she saves the little boy turned to stone by Medusa.

    Her obeying of all ancient rituals, the Heikitta. What Rucka did you read?

    She´s very similar in Simone as well, just not pulled off quite as sophisticatedly.

    When I said not as badass or powerful

    I meant in her attitude. WW was a leader in every sense of the word, she marched into battle with no fear, even when blind,

    yes she was compassionate and always searched for another way, but she still had this attitude always about her like "Bitch, I got this!" "I can handle this." which was cool. You didn´t want to mess with her. Again I kind of saw her as a lot like Maximus, more than Xena in character.

    You´re right character is more important to me than power levels and I was far more impressed by Perrez, Marston, Rucka, and Simone´s take on wondy character whether depowered or not, just like each interpretation of James Bond brings out a new element, but some are clearly better. I believe Rucka, Marston, Simone interpretation of WW are like the Roger Moore, Shawn Connery and Daniel Craig of interpretations of James Bond. When I think of WW thats just what I think. One of those kind of takes, each emphasising certain characteristics more than others, but whether she´s as powerful as Spider-Man or can knock out Superman is for me little to do with her charm. However, it should be stated that apart of that attitude I like so much about her comes from the fact she knows she can handle anything the boys can, part of that feeling comes from training but part of it also comes from how powerful she´s meant to be.

    Symbol Of Peace:

    I think alot of people have had trouble with this idea and wrapping their head around a warrior fighting for peace.

    So there have been many conflicting interpretations of what that means, but to not even try and engage with it, like Azz I feel is just lazy.

    Perrez Origin

    Perrez did not change WW origin in the slightest. He did what any respectful writer does when interpreting an origin to tell his own story, he took the main points and spun his own fantasy about them.

    Thats like saying Superman Earth One changed, Supermans story. No because the fundementals of the story were all there.

    A wonder woman origin needs:

    1. Amazons for one reason or other to do with male exploitation or oppression are transported by Gods to Island hidden from mans world.

    2. Hippolyta their leader prays for a child, she is granted one by a Goddess or Goddesses. (Notice I say nothing about Clay origin being necessary)

    2.5 Diana is trained to be the finest warrior and is granted powers by GODDESSES

    3 The child Diana is the first born on the Island, for whatever reason becomes weary of being sheltered in paradise and dreams of whats in the outside world.

    4. Captain Trevor (you could even make Steve, Laurie to stir things up if you want) Crash Lands on Island while on a mission that has great consequences for the world.

    5. Call to duty of Diana as she must go against her mothers wishes and escort Steve back to mans world and help him on his mission: which as I said is of great consequence to the world somehow. Possibly connected back to something mystical, but not necessarily. could just be the Nazis

    6. Diana in Mans World discovers whilst there are great evils in it there are also many good people. She decides her powers could be best used helping them.

    7. Overcomes evil and decides to stay in Mans World, perhaps because she and Steve are in love or just to because she knows the world needs her.

    Did Perrez hit all these points, so he wrote a WW story. Simple.

    More Flawed Character Before:

    I found Diana to be far more sympathetic because she was more flawed as a character before.

    Her greatest flaw and this was fascinating about the character, was how alien she was to our culture. She wasn´t like supes fighting for truth justice american way. Her culture and values were constantly in conflict with our own and though she always meant good, she always got tangled up in those differences between her and them. Including and most poigniantly when she killed Maxwell Lord. To bad Rucka take on her was misunderstood and it just gave people license in future to make her a ruthless killer, because for me that arch was really very interesting.

    On many occassions she´s shunned from the team because of her differences. Whether it was when she was blind, or being sued because her Lasso Of Truth violated Marranda rights or killing Maxwell. It was all interesting.

    Again I´ve written this before far more eloquently, but these are just some of the things I like about previous incarnations.

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    gokuwarrior

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    @jphulk26: no i didn't see the clip.

    and how can flopello says anything bad about other runs when he can't write a good wonder woman arc and his run is atotal flop.

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    r2datu

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    @jphulk26

    All great points, I misinterpreted what you meant with the "warrior priestess" comment.

    I think the only points you make that I have issue with are:

    Warrior Strategist/ Wisdom Of Athena:

    It's a different brand of wisdom, but just as you can't say she doesn't show the wisdom of Athena in Simone, you can't say she doesn't in Azzarello. The wisdom I referred to was in terms of emotional wisdom with her constant advice to her supporting cast and her enemies. I think that's a very important part of the character and it's one that Rucka understood especially well. Her strategic side came through in her outmaneuvering Hera during the first arc.

    In terms of the Wonder Woman origin points that you defined, the only point that is missing is 2.5 Diana is trained to be the finest warrior and is granted powers by GODDESSES. The rest are all still there.

    But really, I feel like many of the points and qualities you referenced are still there and I'm confused as to why you would hate it THAT much. I mean, you're referring to her as AZZ EMO WOMAN, saying that you "regret with every strand of my being that i bought it" and insulting other members who do like it (not me personally, thankfully). I mean, I can certainly understand disliking it for the reasons you mentioned but the character is still in line with previous interpretations of Wonder Woman (as defined by Rucka and Simone at least) and I really don't consider it "erasing a character", no more than Messner-Loebs erasing all the good that Perez did or Byrne just blasting away everything Messner-Loebs did.

    I mean, the WW from that Justice League movie video was MUCH further out of line than any interpretation of WW than I've seen (well, it was literally word for word Johns' interpretation, ugh) and doesn't mesh with any post crisis interpretation of the character that I can think of. So if you can be okay with that, then in hindsight this WW isn't SO bad, right?

    With that said, all good points and while I disagree with a few, I appreciate you taking the time to type that out.

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    r2datu

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    @jphulk26: no i didn't see the clip.

    and how can flopello says anything bad about other runs when he can't write a good wonder woman arc and his run is atotal flop.

    Still haven't addressed my points, buddy :)

    Would really like to know what are your thoughts about Rucka's interpretation in the quote I posted in relation to this version

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    Enough luck so that the next writer keep Azzarello's work.

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    jphulk26

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    @r2datu said:

    @jphulk26

    All great points, I misinterpreted what you meant with the "warrior priestess" comment.

    I think the only points you make that I have issue with are:

    Warrior Strategist/ Wisdom Of Athena:

    It's a different brand of wisdom, but just as you can't say she doesn't show the wisdom of Athena in Simone, you can't say she doesn't in Azzarello. The wisdom I referred to was in terms of emotional wisdom with her constant advice to her supporting cast and her enemies. I think that's a very important part of the character and it's one that Rucka understood especially well. Her strategic side came through in her outmaneuvering Hera during the first arc.

    In terms of the Wonder Woman origin points that you defined, the only point that is missing is 2.5 Diana is trained to be the finest warrior and is granted powers by GODDESSES. The rest are all still there.

    But really, I feel like many of the points and qualities you referenced are still there and I'm confused as to why you would hate it THAT much. I mean, you're referring to her as AZZ EMO WOMAN, saying that you "regret with every strand of my being that i bought it" and insulting other members who do like it (not me personally, thankfully). I mean, I can certainly understand disliking it for the reasons you mentioned but the character is still in line with previous interpretations of Wonder Woman (as defined by Rucka and Simone at least) and I really don't consider it "erasing a character", no more than Messner-Loebs erasing all the good that Perez did or Byrne just blasting away everything Messner-Loebs did.

    I mean, the WW from that Justice League movie video was MUCH further out of line than any interpretation of WW than I've seen (well, it was literally word for word Johns' interpretation, ugh) and doesn't mesh with any post crisis interpretation of the character that I can think of. So if you can be okay with that, then in hindsight this WW isn't SO bad, right?

    With that said, all good points and while I disagree with a few, I appreciate you taking the time to type that out.

    Dude I don´t think I´ve insulted anyone on for liking this WW. More power to them and I especially appreciate those who have bothered to read past runs, before running their mouth about her being unrelatable.

    by the way I should have added to that break down that

    2.2 The Amazons create a utopian society based on values of peace, equality and isolationism. They embue Diana with these values, but at the same time remain bigoted toward men and isolated from the world ¡, something Diana doesn´t fully understand because she has never really met a man before.

    They are not meant to be perfect, or morally superior, but they are supposed to be in someways heroic and what Azz did with the baby murdering was too much for me, whether or not that was the original depiction of Amazons in Greek Myth or not. (Again obviously showing he had little or no understanding of the wonder woman mythos) But that is a really if not themost important strand of her story.

    I can forgive

    1) Generic Zeus baby Hercules clone crap (although it makes her powers and abilities far less interesting)

    2) Could even forgive Ares training as it didn´t actually state the Amazons didn´t train her as well.

    3) Can´t forgive taking away her supporting cast and villians. but I would have still bought the book to support ww.

    4) The baby raping and the shit with the sailors and the plot holes that created, unforgivable. That was just too much and by the way the only Wonder Woman I had read till that point was Perrez Gods and Mortals and watched the film and I still hated it. I hated it even more when I started to read some really great WW stories like The Circle, and Ruckas run, and League of One and Spirit Of Truth.

    However I really haven´t insulted anybody at all and I always wish people the best. To each their own and I hope this run brings you as much joy as previous runs have brought me.

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