I´ve been reading the comments sections of the collider 20 greatest superhero vlogs they´ve been doing and I am shocked and appalled by the hate for the Wonder Woman movie!

Please have a look. See link here!

I´d just like to discuss here what it´s all about. Check out the comments.

Iron Man was great movie and paved the way for MCUs success. But never have I seen so much a** kissing.

Facts.

Wonder Woman is definitely in the upper echelon of CBM

I don't think most comic fans consider Wonder Woman to be in the premier league of CBM's, its good but not great.

Personally I have bigger problems with the list than their WW placing, like Homecoming being in #13 for instance.

hmm hmm hm umm hmmm.

You think Homecoming is a great movie ?

How many great CBM´s are there?

Sorry but practically all MCU movies apart from Guardians, Iron Man, Winter Soldier and Avengers 1 (I don´t like Civil War but screw it I know poeple love that movie for some reason) don´t deserve to be in the top 20. Marvel hasn´t got a masterpiece of a movie at all. Maybe Iron Man...

Fox or other Marvel Spider Man 2, Spiderman, X-Men 2, X-Men First Class, Logan, Deadpool.

Now on DC side the only films I think one could conceivably say is better than WW Batman 89, Batman Returns, Superman 1 and 2, Watchmen, Batman Begins and Dark knight. What other DC movie could favourbly be compared to WW.

Then you have others - Incredibles, Untouchable, Chronicle, Kick Ass, and Dread. I may be forgetting something, but as far as I know these are the only critically acclaimed cult or timeless movies on the list. So I think WW is better than some of these, but to play devils advocate I will say all these movies are better than WW.

WW would be 25, but as I said I believe WW is better than ALOT of these movies INCLUDING Logan, Iron Man, Deadpool, Civil War, Spiderman, Chronicle, Batman 89, Superman 1, X2, First Class, Deadpool, Guardians, Avengers 1.

It looks like I´d rank WW about 12 or 13. I think Kick Ass and Wonder Woman are so close its hard to chose. But I think WW is definitely in the upper echelon of comic movies. The reason being there just aren´t that many outstanding comic movies. Most Marvel is beyond average. DC creates either masterpieces or polarizing movies (which I like) and Fox are just more miss than hit and then you have a few others here and there.

I thought it was okay-ish

I'm actually in agreement with an huge amount of your write-up about the best Cbm's here. However, unlike you I would place most of these films above or on par with Wonder Woman. Maybe 4 or 5 below (Spider-Man 1, First Class, maybe Deadpool, maybe Civil War), and a further 4 or 5 I would say are roughly on a par with Wonder Woman.

I'd say I also like the Crow better, perhaps Kingsman (if it counts), maybe V For Vendetta.

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I wasn't commenting on my personal preference though, I was saying that I feel that the average superhero fan generally doesn't see Wonder Woman as being one of the greatest superhero films of all time, I just get that feeling from being on the site. I also feel that its possibly too early after its release to start talking about it as a classic. There are a bunch of other movies that I'm not that into that people like as well, such as Blade II, The Mask, Hellboy 2, and The Rocketeer.

I wouldn´t count Kingsmen, I don´t like Crow or Blade 2. I think both are more cult movies you either like or dislike. Rocketeer like Kingsmen is a great comic movie but nah not superhero movies. Otherwise Sin City, Kingsmen or Matrix even are top 10 easily for me. Hellboy and Blade are very good, and I would put that above most MCU movies like Thor, Antman, Avengers 2, Deadpool etc but below the major classics like Batman Returns, Superman 1 and 2, Guardians Of The Galaxy, X2 or Unbreakable.

I would agree, alot are very close. Like Chronicle is very good. I would probably put V for Vendetta above WW, but I just forgot about it. Great movie. I personally would put BVS Ultimate Edition on par, but I´m in the minority on that.

But generally my point is, so many CBM´s are just so average that almost by default WW breaks the top eschelon. For the No Man´s Land scene alone I think it will stand the test of time. I have rarely seen a CBM so triumphant and moving. That had people in tears, laughter, and hopeful. It was what Cap America 1 tried to be and failed. It is almost like the perfecting of most of what Superman 1 did. The beautiful score (better than every marvel score to date), the Zack Snyder like cinematography, acting, emotion, everything was on point. So I think it will stand the test of time.

However as I said before, its also because CBM´s aren´t that good. I applaud marvel for all its output, but all they do is consistently put out average, unfunny comedies, which you watch once and forget about. There is no point re-visiting even my favorite ones because, quite frankly I get everything in them the first time round. They have no re-watchability at all. This is also the reason Logan falls just short of WW for me. And I don´t think i´m being just bias here cos of my love of WW. I just think Logan has no re-watchability whatsoever. Unless your just an X-Men fanboy, it doesn´t give you any feeling whatsoever. I have never liked the X-movies. I was pissed at what they did to Rogue and the fact Gambit wasn´t in it since I was a huge animated TV show fan. So I never grew that attachment to Hugh Jackman. So when I saw Logan I was just like this is a really good wolverine movie with swearing in it. Now that is cool and everything, but apart from that, I see nothing groundbreaking in it and if I want to watch that kind of modern western with a child adult relationship in it, give me Leon The Professional every time.

So when it comes down to it WW again won the battle for me between Logan/WW as easily the best CBM´s of the year just because I can watch WW alot more and I do get new things out of it. So yeah that´s why I rank WW so highly. I just think the genre itself is not committed to doing interesting work. So just in virtue of it doing such a classy job of doing something different makes it better than the majority.

That´s also why I hate this idea of Disney buying Fox. Fox actually put out some really good movies every once in a while.

Because its a comic book movie. On top of that they are ranking them. No fans will take their super hero rated bellow someone else even if its just a movie and not the superhero itself. On top of that there is the whole Marvel vs DC thing. And if thats not enough, youtube comments are not a place to go looking for rational opinions.

If you follow "Beyond The Trailer" on youtube Grace will force you to hate Wonder Woman because she talks about it so much. Honestly it wasn't that great a film, it became a hit because it got so much push from youtubers, bloggers, reviewers and social media, Wonder Woman's name recognition and because it was a film women and girls could rally around. Those are also the main reasons for the backlash.

I think it's just a bunch of trigger happy fanboys of other franchises mixed into the ugly crowd who scream 'SJW!' at the slightest mention of equality between races and genders.

The movie itself is good, but it's not amazing... and when I say that, I mean it doesn't do anything we havent seen before other than putting a woman in the part of the hero. But it is well executed and everyone in and around it does a good job, and thats all I really ask for in a movie... it doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. The reason I personally rank it higher up than most Marvel movies, is because it didn't turn into an action-comedy or rely entirely on fireworks like Thor 3, Dr. Strange and GotG2. And I dont know, maybe WW didn't do enough for some and didn't have enough bells and whistles for others?

Sounds about right.

Interesting. But I can say a bunch of things that were different apart in WW, besides the gender of the hero, ALOT. Leaving work right now but I'll come back to this cos I think this notion that any superhero movie has been that different since Superman 1 is beyond crazy.

Sin City, BvS, Dredd, and Watchmen are literally some of the only superhero movies to do anything exciting cinematically. So I don't know what everyone is talking about. All other superhero movies have been structurally speaking the same.

The movie just didn't stick to the source material that well overall imo (it was a mix between different portrayals of WW, her mythos, etc.). Plus a lot of other unnecessary things happened, making some people call the film "cheesy" or whatever. I honestly don't think Patty Jenkins knows WW the way some people say to think she does. Just my two cents.

I always want someone to ask Patty, apart from Lynda Carter and the dumb New 52, what other comics have you read of wonder woman? that's why I worry about WW2 so much.

@jphulk26: I read a Q&A in which Patty Jenkins answered a question on what she used as influence for the WW movie and she said she used Casablanca, Indiana Jones, the original WW comic book, some Perez strips, Richard Donner's Superman and the Lynda Carter show as influence for the movie. Idk if she actually read the comics though. She didn't specifically mention the "New 52" in her response either but it's obvious that they used that too (Blond Hippolyta, influence of Zeus in her origin, etc). For the sequel, they are most likely going to make Cheetah the main villain...which is one of my main worries tbh.

here we go again with the haters

Maybe it's not hate maybe people just don't like it.

I hope to god she's smart enough not to do that. It will have no emotional weight at all

I highly enjoy WW personally. But I'm also willing to admit that I feel like a lot of people I've seen on YouTube and social media over praise it cause it's WW and a female superhero movie. My only issue with WW is the 3rd act and the portrayal of the gods at the beginning. Besides that, I really like it. Not a "great" movie to me. Important, yes. But just good IMO.

Name me a superhero movie that deals with post traumatic stress disorder? (Cap America and even Wolverine, made war and violence seem like it was fun or cool. It had no consequences)

That deals with racism head on unflinchingly?

A movie where the hero basically suggest that she is homosexual?

Name me a superhero film that challenges leaders and generals and calls them cowards for not stepping into battle with their men?

What Wonder Woman did and why it was so successful is that she said things the audience all think about the world and the film covered topics most superheroes wouldn´t dare. And yes it was more impactful becos she´s a woman, just like Forest Gump was more impactful because he was mentally and educationally challenged. The film Forest Gump would not have been half as fun if it was just some brilliant, obviously athletic guy achieving all these great things through out history. The whole point of this type of story telling is the main character subvert expectations.

Watch the movie again with your brain turned on, rather than taking everything at face value. It is absolutely a great movie and easily better than alot of trash that people claim is great cinema these days. The greatest movie ever, not even close. One of the best of 2017, there were some great movies this year but there were some overrated movies as well. Wonder Woman is top 20 and that is a compliment. Movies like I Tonya and that Water monster movie were obviously better. Logan on the other hand was as good, if not a little more boring than WW. The fact anyone would mention Logan in the same sentence as Dark Knight just shows how deluded the Logan fans are. Its not even better than Batman Begins or Watchmen, let alone Dark Knight.

And is WW a classic. I think absolutely yes to people whose lives are full enough to not be writing comments in comment sections.

Wonder Woman was a throw back film that celebrated the Golden Age rather than being of its time. I admit my personal bias that I'd been wanting a classic super hero movie for a long time so I loved it. I'd argue the only point the film lost me is when Diana is closer to so many other heroes I've seen lately ending in a fist fight with the villain. So much of what makes her portrayal great is when she shows the value of a hero, someone that inspires others to be better and someone who believes in our capacity to do so.

I think Wonder Woman will age far better than other comparative films that are deeply rooted in their era of film making. Part of this is being a period piece, but I think more so her values and personality hold stronger as an icon than if she were a product of 2017.