For all of the "holier than thou" posturing about New 52 trying to be "edgy", where were the complaints about the Perez run? That run is deconstructionist as HELL, not to mentioned insanely dark compared to what had come before. In many ways, it can be seen almost as a critique or railing against Pre-Crisis continuity, namely many of the failed choices made with the character.

@jointron33: DONT POKE THE BEAR!!!!! lol

Perez was long before my time, but anyway, there probably were a heap of people complaining or writing in angry letters, but we just don't know about it because it was before the internet was big. I went through Perez' run not too long ago and I personally enjoyed it quite a bit. It was a change on tone because it was a new time and they needed to update it so it made sense in that era.

Perez did a really good job, though the one thing I loathed was the pushing in the face of possible Superman/Wonder Woman. Left a horrid taste in my mouth especially since Lois and Clark are together at the time and Lois and Wonder Woman do meet. That made me unhappy. But other than that I didn't really have anything to complain about.

Cheetah especially would be criticized today as being "dark and edgy"

I don´t think people complaining about Azzerrelo are complaining about it being too dark and edgy, we´re complaining about it not being WW. I was actually looking forward to a darker more mature take on wonder woman, especially her villains. It would be great to see an edgier version of Ares, or Dr. Psycho, or Dr. Poison, or Alkyone. The problem with the current run on wonder woman is it isn´t wonder woman and I have heard no argument to convince me that it is.

I personally have always seen Wonder Woman´s mythology as dark, even in the Marston version there were very adult themes, which are yet to be explored to the fullest. Obviously much earlier publications and the Lynda Carter show were alot more family friendly, but in recent years wonder woman has turned to a grittier character. For me the most gritty and best run was Greg Rucka, but the difference is he kept the integrity of the character and her mythology, which made it all the more interesting.

"Deconstructionist" is the perfect word for the Perez run - to deconstruct something is to break it down to its constituent parts, and Perez did that wonderfully. Azzarello at his best has done just that, but there have been moments where rather than breaking the character down to her constituent parts he's just tossed away those parts that don't suit him.

I'm ambivalent about Azzarello's run, perhaps for just that reason. Perez wanted to get to the heart of the character and let the story grow from there. Azzarello wants to get to the heart of the story - and the stories have been good - with no real regard for the character. Normally, I would applaud that in an author, but when dealing with an iconic character it isn't always the best way to go.

Perez: Amazons alive & contributing

Azzarello: Amazons demonized & gone

Perez: Diana youthful & happy w/humans

Azzarello: Diana hardened with one human only, ever

Perez: fully, fleshed recognizable foes- attractive god & non gods

Azzarello: one dimensional foes-- deceptive, angry gods and no non gods

Perez: a theme about a woman not trying to be a male demi-god or macho hero but full of faith and wonder who motivates other male and female characters to face their demons/self images and/or be better.

Azzarello: theme(used loosely) of a woman warrior hardened by something who is ready to fight/strike/kill anyone on her sole life function to save one mother and child.

Perez: Mission of peace, truth and love.

Azzarello: Mission to arm up and kick anyone's tail.

Perez: Aged Steve and Etta, excluded campy items, allowed a young girl crush on Superman based on his image alone, excluded secret identity separating and elevating her from most counterparts, kept costume, lasso, optimism and gentle but strong woman.

Azzarello: no place for Steve or outside DC world, changed costume, added abrasive attitude, excludes optimism, wisdom, and integrity of a true hero not to kill as an ends to a means.

Perez: Told more than five complete stories with contained adventures with clear beginning, middle, and end; explored Diana's thoughts, emotions and human qualities; showed her less easy to anger and violence, showed people awed by WW; respected elements of her past incarnation while spinning new elements still used.

Azzarello: unresolved story going over tow years, no exploration of Diana's overall goals, feelings, life outside of fighting gods, easy to anger or fight, no respect for established iconic elements, the general public has almost no positive reaction to this character other than getting out of her way as she fights, and spinning a tale so long and involved a new reader may be deterred to start in the middle.

WW has won decisive battles and triumphed for years with just bracelets, a lasso and a tiara. She didn't need a sword like a knight or pirate. She didn't need to Hulk out or go into a Wolverine berserker rage. Perez got that and used mostly those items and power of her character to create situations that played to why she was not Wolverine, Hulk, Batman, Hawkman or anyone but a unique hero by her own individual standards.

Perez: wrote Wonder Woman

Azzarello: writes a female warrior out of Conan.

Perez deconstructed and rebuilt a fine engine of iconic image.

Azzarello has borrowed and dogged a classic car with people cheering at his drag race performance.

@powerwoman: I didn't realize that Azzarello's run was completed. Lol

@jointron33:

You didn't? Nooooo, I don't believe you!

Well...a more mature version at least. Darker doesn't really equate to mature in all instances from experiences.

Brah, if I was a woman, I'd want to have your baby.

@sinisteri: well said.

Ah the butthurt is strong in this thread.

@lvenger: true. Many panties are in wads.

The Azz fans are going to have to realize that it may be an enjoyable story for you, but it's not Wonder Woman.

Seeing as how theirs no all agreement lets just agree Wonder Woman fanshate Azz's version and Azz's fans hate classic version and leave at that.

Not a fair fight. Azz's version is limited mostly to the stand alone title whereas the classic version penned pre-new 52 existed/was portrayed more consistently outside the main title.

Point: even DC doesn't support Azz's WW, so very likely his version will not survive beyond his time on the title. This means it is not just the classic fans that don't like it.

To be fair to you... Time will tell.

@sinisteri: Well you can just sit back and enjoy the violent idiot that's going to be Wonder Woman for the new era thanks to Geoff Johns.

what i don't understand is what makes you think that all the people here are complaining for lack of "violence",looking at the posts above,there are many issues that people have with azz's run not just lack of action,which i think is good as long as is well done,azzarello's way to portray the action,the character development,personality and what he did to the amazons and cast feels out of place for a lot of people that have followed wonder woman for many years.

@drgnx:is azzarello's run completed?.

@gokuwarrior: Think it's you that's not understanding what I am talking about.

i know what you are talking about,you think wonder woman should never lift anything heavy,should never use super speed,should never show great durability,should never have a fight longer than 3 pages,that she doesn't need the amazons and her classic villans,and she shouldn't show an heroic side more often,you always tell me how all this is pointless.

@jointron33:is azzarello's run completed?.

I wouldn't be surprised if at the conclusion of Azz's run, the Amazons are restored, the sex pirating was some kind of huge misunderstanding and Diana isn't really Zeus' daughter, just so AZZ can yank all our chains.

I'd still hate it.

I'm certain however that DC has been systematically slaughtering Wonder Woman's sacred cows, in an effort to make her more profitable and that this run is the epitome of that plan.

@gokuwarrior: Admirable, you've managed to not understand anything.

@scorpio_cassadine: the Amazons being restored will happen after all she only know what hephaestus has told her we haven't heard WW mother and amazon side yet on the whole sex pirate thing and male amazons

@sinisteri: Seems fair to me, since Wonder Woman's fanbase is split to azzarello fans, violent Wonder Woman of JL fans and classic fans seems to me their will never reach a consensus much like DC inconsistently writing Wonder Woman. I say let the Wonder Woman fans arguing amongst themselves.

@gokuwarrior: We are just kidding around ... didn't mean to get your hopes up!

Reading this thread is like listening to the guys who use the word "literally" every time they are describing an action something took!

@jointron33: Wonder Woman's world is edgy in the Perez run, there is a difference.

The problem isn't really the fact that WW changed, its that she is stereotypical.

I am probably one of the few humans on the planet who dont like Infinite Crisis. I have many reasons for this, but one of them is that Johns just HAD to make WW into a "champion first, then human" character, who didn't allow herself to be human. This is nonsense. How could such a person be an ambassador and write a best-seller book? she spends a lot of time with "normal" humans too. But Johns didn't care about that. He didn't want Wonder Woman. He wanted a Xena stereotype who had to get down from her high hoarse.

But because there have been a reboot, you can change a character. You dont have to worry about continuity and can therefor write the character as you want.

@sinisteri: This is just blatantly biased and one-sided, and at times flat out lies. I'm guessing you haven't actually been reading the New 52 Wonder Woman, and instead basing your entire summary on Johns' depiction of the character and what you've heard based on all the whining. Nowhere in Azz's run is Diana depicted as a bloodthirsty warmongerer, her entire mission has been about peace and protecting those in danger. Complaining about things like the lack of Steve Trevor and Etta Candy, about her using a sword, etc. is ridiculously facetious. Not every WW run is going to be about the exact same things, contain the exact same characters. Complaining about the story length is equally ridiculous; there is no rule saying a story has to be a certain number of issues long. The villains in the Perez runs were no more complicated than Azz's versions, something you'd realize if you would take your rose-coloured glasses off for one minute.

" excludes optimism, wisdom, and integrity of a true hero not to kill as an ends to a means."

This is flat out false. Diana has portrayed all of these values in the New 52 run and you seem to greatly overstating her desire to kill, while also ignoring the fact that previous iterations of the character weren't shy about killing, either.

All I'm hearing is people complaining that the new Wonder Woman isn't the exact same as their precious Perez or Rucka or whatever versions. These people need to realize that a REBOOT means things are going to change. Wonder Woman has been a stale character for years (she was easily the least popular member of the Justice League out of the main 5), and the New 52 has given her a refreshing change, given her a new identity and, judging from the massive critical acclaim, has done so very successfully.

Your view of WW as a stale character before new 52 says a lot about your feelings of a character you may not truly know.

WW has as much right to mainstay characters as her peers do.

Please name three other noble, well known heroes who have killed a third party character viewed as an ally to indirectly win a fight against an opponent.the fact that she killed on this way is character defining. It means her value on life over victory is thinly measured.

As a reader and intelligent human being, each of us has a right to critique the quality of a story.

As for length, superheroes are expected to resolve threats in a timely fashion-- it's part of the lore. It also demonstrates the competence of a character. The reboot shouldn't steal that from a major character.

Please support how First Born and other villains in this run(how many again) are complicated compared to an ailing but ruthless Cheetah, a manipulated Silver Swan, a cursed Circe or a powerful Ares with centuries of experience and a rightful place at his mantle to be more than minor supporting character in any story.

And why was Perez's stale character used consistently throughout DC during his time? Oh yeah, editors and writers did their job and had better respect for the consistency of the character.

You are welcome to your opinion, but you would make stronger statements by focusing on the subject with good supporting information. Support why the story needs multiple years to resolve the baby situation and what aspects of First Born makes him the next Darkseid, Luthor or Joker.

No it hasn't. If this run were so successful there wouldn't be "all the whining" you alluded to in your first paragraph. There would also presumably be higher sales, the latest issue WW 23 sold less than Gail's issue 23. At no other time in Wonder Woman's history have past creators publicly railed against the current interpretation, like Phil Jiminez, Trina Robbins and Greg Rucka have done. The Marston family are also unhappy with the current state of Azzarello's Wonder Woman and find it disrespectful to her creator's intentions. The only thing this run has done successfully is alienate longtime fans.

well said.

I have to agree with recent comments by Rucka and company when they said that one of the controversial elements of the Perez interpretation was to have Diana's powers come completely from the gods and not through hard work and training. There was an underlying message there that you can achieve anything through hard work and persistence that I find beautiful and inspiring. In my opinion, these types of character elements really elevate the character. Even with those controversial elements, I think that Perez's interpretation was a sort of back-to-basics for the character and he highlighted some very important elements such as: tackling feminist issues and bringing the Greek gods to play a larger role in the book. These were a couple of things that had been missing from the book.

Some of the controversial decisions that Azzarello has made such as a young Diana being the protégé of Ares and replacing the clay origin with the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta has done nothing to elevate the character. Removing the clay origin story has been particularly damaging to the character because it took away something that was very unique; no other hero could boast that unique origin story. Instead of Wonder Woman having a unique origin story, she's reduced to a female Hercules counterpart. Being the protégé of Ares has a bit of a sexist undertone: the Amazon training wasn't enough to allow a young Diana to reach her full potential, instead, she needed a male figure to train her properly to hone her skills. To me, the secret training of a young Diana was kind of a slap in the face to the Amazons.

These are just a couple of examples of the recent controversial changes that have long time fans, such as myself, crying foul.

@donnafan:

Good points.

Sadly, when you boil it down, the new 52 Wonder Woman has been majorly portrayed owing a more to male figures than ever before in Zeus and Ares. Originally, she owed very little to Zeus but to female gods.

Instead of her sister Amazons, Etta Candy and her girls, mother/daughter supporting characters, Wonder Woman's best, most powerful and most consistent allies are males such as Orion, Hephaestus, and Lennox. There is nothing wrong with make help, but why almost entirely make help.

DC has put Wonder Woman in her place. Beholden to men and her only resort to save a male baby is to practically hold it in her arms or charge almost constantly and indefinitely.

Wonder Woman! We are waiting for you! And the wonders that you do! Make a liar tell the truth. Get us up from under! Wonder Woman!