How strong do you want Wonder Woman to be?

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#1 Posted by Bezza (5019 posts) - - Show Bio

..It appears that Wonder Woman's strength level has varied a fair bit over the years. In another thread I have highlighted the Matt Wagner trinity book from 2003 where Wonder Woman is clearly a major step down from Bizarro, almost being beaten to death by him and therefore presumably Superman in the strength table, however in the Contagion story she shrugs off being punched into Canada and defeats Power Girl. Then we move to New 52 where some say she is really weak, others argue she is fighting powerful greek gods and isn't. So how strong do you want her to be/should she be? As strong as superman? A bit weaker? Able to tank a nuclear blast?

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#2 Edited by SOG7dc (11368 posts) - - Show Bio

She should be up there with Superman and Thor imo.

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#3 Edited by marvel123 (397 posts) - - Show Bio

Well at least as strong and fast as shazam,( whom she has way more in common with than kryptonians). both have strength like hercules, both have hermes/ mercury's speed...........i wish they would stop trying to put her on the same level as superman. either make her stronger or make her weaker, so everyone will know and writers can be consistent.

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#4 Posted by SOG7dc (11368 posts) - - Show Bio

Well at least as strong and fast as shazam,( whom she has way more in common with than kryptonians). both have strength like hercules, both have hermes/ mercury's speed...........i wish they would stop trying to put her on the same level as superman. either make her stronger or make her weaker, so everyone will know and writers can be consistent.

i dont think this stuff is still canon for new52 is it? Shazam just has the wizards powers right?

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#5 Posted by Kwodam (122 posts) - - Show Bio

I like her to be on the same lvl as aquaman in trems of raw strengh.

Strong but not possible to lift buildings or anything like that.

But in terms of skill and equipment that a outher story.

So i dont wanna see some guy breaking the lasso of truth.

or something blasting trow her wristbands.

For explen i really like it when she fought supergirl. And she won bye useing her greater xp in combat. And not just pure raw stengh.

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#6 Posted by marvel123 (397 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: wait, Solomon's wisdom, Hercules' strength , Atlas stamina , Zeus power, Achilles courage, Mercury's speed.........he doesn't have that any more? it used to be when ever he'd say shazam, the wizard would give him those abilities, did that change?

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#7 Edited by Fallschirmjager (23432 posts) - - Show Bio

@kwodam said:

I like her to be on the same lvl as aquaman in trems of raw strengh.

Strong but not possible to lift buildings or anything like that.

...Aquaman can lift buildings...(and WAY more...)

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#8 Edited by fodigg (6244 posts) - - Show Bio

I think she should be as strong and as fast as Superman, but significantly less durable, which she makes up for with her magical arsenal & armor as well as her combat training. Oh, and more "floating" than "flying" the way Superman does, meaning long-term trips can still involve the stealth-jet.

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#9 Edited by SOG7dc (11368 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvel123:

I'd have to Terra's my shazam book but I don't think that's actually the case anymore

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#10 Posted by marvel123 (397 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: well. the reasoning for calling the name shazam was because of solomon and the greek characters.........what does shazam mean now?.....its just a random name?

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#11 Edited by starrk_coyote (715 posts) - - Show Bio

i think she should be at the same lvl as the elder mongel.and she should have the capability to bitch slap sups any day of the week just because she wants to.

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#12 Posted by SOG7dc (11368 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvel123:

It was the wizards name....I'll explain in greater detail later today when I read it again

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#13 Posted by SNascimento (450 posts) - - Show Bio

Not as strong as Supes but able to best a kryptonian in a fight. This is what we saw in the nu52 so far...

Also, JL:War handled her combat prowess perfectly.

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#14 Edited by marvel123 (397 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: cool, i guess the comic vine bio for him hasn't been updated as yet

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#15 Edited by JonSmith (4529 posts) - - Show Bio

Not quite as strong as Superman, but possessed of faster reflexes and more skilled.

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#16 Posted by Johnni_Kun (290 posts) - - Show Bio

I think she should either be noticeably stronger that superman or noticeably weaker than him. I really don't like the whole Wonder Woman = Kryptonian thing.

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#17 Posted by WonderWomanFan8 (224 posts) - - Show Bio

IMO, I think there's no reason why she shouldn't be just as powerful as Superman. I know he's like, one of DC's main mascots but I don't like how they use him as the standard measuring stick by which a character's strength is measured. His character doesn't own a monopoly on strength, or flight for that matter.

To me it seems like a cop out when writers purposefully de-power her in order to write come compelling stories. Work with what she's got. Take the challenge. She's supposed to be a role model to show that girls can be just as strong, if not stronger than men.

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#18 Posted by deactivated-5d3f071d30d9f (5172 posts) - - Show Bio

@kwodam:

Why not have sorcery powers?

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#19 Posted by Muffin_Sangria (844 posts) - - Show Bio

She should be a little less powerful then Superman, but more then make up for it with her superior fighting skills.

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#20 Edited by gokuwarrior (4399 posts) - - Show Bio

Not as strong as Supes but able to best a kryptonian in a fight. This is what we saw in the nu52 so far...

Also, JL:War handled her combat prowess perfectly.

LOL,going by feats her new 52 version is nothing next to superman,she defeated supergirl who is also much weaker than her pre 52 version and much weaker than new 52 superman,so can we stop dreaming?,WW is not a superman level thread anymore,in the pre 52 universe she was,but not in the new 52.

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#21 Posted by starrk_coyote (715 posts) - - Show Bio

IMO, I think there's no reason why she shouldn't be just as powerful as Superman. I know he's like, one of DC's main mascots but I don't like how they use him as the standard measuring stick by which a character's strength is measured. His character doesn't own a monopoly on strength, or flight for that matter.

To me it seems like a cop out when writers purposefully de-power her in order to write come compelling stories. Work with what she's got. Take the challenge. She's supposed to be a role model to show that girls can be just as strong, if not stronger than men.

taken the words out of my Mouth. i really like you.

@vitalius said:

@kwodam:

Why not have sorcery powers?

you got a point there, i agree with you good sir.

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#22 Posted by deactivated-5d3f071d30d9f (5172 posts) - - Show Bio

@starrk_coyote:

She comes from Greek Myths and she is Amazonian Princess that had powers that were gifths of the Greek Goddesses/She is daughter of Queen of Amazons Hypolita and Greek God Zeus and her villains are often sorceress or with some kind magical power. While is amazing feat her battling against magic users while doesnt have any sorcery skills, Why not giving her some sorcery skills at same fashion as Aquaman had but in Amazonian´s style. She probably would become too powerful since she doesnt have any weakness but DC Trinity is overpower and powerful in her way.

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#23 Posted by PowerWoman (3639 posts) - - Show Bio

How strong?

No matter wonder woman how strong,superman always much stronger than before,and again,and again,as for new 52

Especially in the New 52. She has no feats in the New 52 so far to suggest that she's even in the same ballpark as Supes.

And I can bet,you would be never see girls/women have great strength feats in the comic book,I accept the challenge,From my years of reading comics,I feeling writer dont like show girls strength

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#24 Edited by Superguy1591 (7539 posts) - - Show Bio

Not as atrong as Supers, but strong enough that when she clocks him he doesn't think he has to hold back. If Superman is a 10 in terms of strength, Diana is an 8.

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#25 Edited by ArchiZoom (1128 posts) - - Show Bio

As strong as a kryptonian woman would be because she's the champion of the Gods. If they can't make that happen, why should anyone in the DCU worship them lol given that humans have created super powered robots, cyborgs and lab creatures. Nothing created by men should be stronger than the champion of the Gods ffs

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#26 Posted by Pokeysteve (12033 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman

...

...

Wonder Woman

Shazam, J'onn, Supergirl, Power Girl

People use the "beating a god" thing as this big deal but none of the gods have any feats to make it impressive. First Born has been more impressive than any of them.

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#27 Posted by comicdude23 (11901 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman

...

...

Wonder Woman

Shazam, J'onn, Supergirl, Power Girl

People use the "beating a god" thing as this big deal but none of the gods have any feats to make it impressive. First Born has been more impressive than any of them.

Um, what? Shazam > J'onn, Supergirl and Power-Girl in terms of strength.

http://www.comicvine.com/billy-batson/4005-2350/forums/new-52-shazam-respect-thread-695618/?page=1

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It won't be long before Shazam is on Superman's strength level (they should be equal in strength).

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#28 Posted by ArchiZoom (1128 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman is vulnerable to magic hence vulnerable to shazam's lightning power.

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#29 Posted by comicdude23 (11901 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman is vulnerable to magic hence vulnerable to shazam's lightning power.

Yes, but pre-52 he could still match Superman in raw strength. New-52 Marvel I believe has inherited Shazam's powers, that's why he can exert his magical abilities far more effectively in the New-52.

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#30 Posted by PowerWoman (3639 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23:

I think:

Superman

Shazam

Supergirl/Powergirl

......

......

Wonder woman/MM

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#31 Posted by Strongarm (5881 posts) - - Show Bio

MM needs to be stronger physically or else it would be odd to boot him out of JL

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#32 Posted by MakkyD (6989 posts) - - Show Bio

WW, Shazam, Supes, MM, Aquaman and some of the other major powerhouses should have equal strength, but are varied through their different "extra" abilities.

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#33 Posted by Pokeysteve (12033 posts) - - Show Bio

Um, what? Shazam > J'onn, Supergirl and Power-Girl in terms of strength.

http://www.comicvine.com/billy-batson/4005-2350/forums/new-52-shazam-respect-thread-695618/?page=1

It won't be long before Shazam is on Superman's strength level (they should be equal in strength).

You should give the title to this thread another once over. Also your scans prove absolutely nothing. It's just Billy hitting people. I can give you scans of Batman hitting Hulk and Spectre (writers shouldn't do crack) but it doesn't mean anything.

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#34 Edited by Lvenger (36347 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23 said:

@pokeysteve said:

Superman

...

...

Wonder Woman

Shazam, J'onn, Supergirl, Power Girl

People use the "beating a god" thing as this big deal but none of the gods have any feats to make it impressive. First Born has been more impressive than any of them.

Um, what? Shazam > J'onn, Supergirl and Power-Girl in terms of strength.

http://www.comicvine.com/billy-batson/4005-2350/forums/new-52-shazam-respect-thread-695618/?page=1

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

It won't be long before Shazam is on Superman's strength level (they should be equal in strength).

You're right but that is only due to more consistent showings of feats over his more limited appearances. It's a testament to MM's durability that he was able to tank that punch at less than half his full power with only a bloody nose. Still I agree Shazam is now seemingly second to Superman in strength though Black Adam went down to Ultraman after a short fight so that's some indication of how the rankings go but he is only hitting people in those scans, not beating them.

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#35 Posted by comicdude23 (11901 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: I'd agree with that.

@lvenger: Agreed. He isn't exactly beating them, but he can hurt them so I'd agree that he's second to Superman in strength. I can't predict it for sure, but Shazam may soon be put in Superman's ballpark if he continues to show these showings. Billy and Superman were always meant to be equal in raw strength when written correctly (Mark Waid for example can write him correctly). But as of the moment, he isn't as strong as New-52 Superman.

@comicdude23 said:

Um, what? Shazam > J'onn, Supergirl and Power-Girl in terms of strength.

http://www.comicvine.com/billy-batson/4005-2350/forums/new-52-shazam-respect-thread-695618/?page=1

It won't be long before Shazam is on Superman's strength level (they should be equal in strength).

You should give the title to this thread another once over. Also your scans prove absolutely nothing. It's just Billy hitting people. I can give you scans of Batman hitting Hulk and Spectre (writers shouldn't do crack) but it doesn't mean anything.

But, they do prove something - that Shazam can knock around top-tier powerhouses. And Batman hitting and hurting Hulk and Spectre is PIS, because Batman isn't a superhuman or a top-tier powerhouse. Billy has always been a top-tier powerhouse, even pre-52 he could smack around Superman with strength. Comparing Batman's strength to Shazam's is a poor example.

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#36 Posted by Lvenger (36347 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23: Superman did put him in his place on the next page of that fight but I get the picture of what you're saying here. Shazam should be second to Superman in physical stats and the much clearer magic source of his powers is coming across more here than Pre Flashpoint. So agreed with what you're saying here.

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#37 Posted by comicdude23 (11901 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@comicdude23: Superman did put him in his place on the next page of that fight but I get the picture of what you're saying here. Shazam should be second to Superman in physical stats and the much clearer magic source of his powers is coming across more here than Pre Flashpoint. So agreed with what you're saying here.

I agree, but Billy is inexperienced at this point (and he's been Superman for 5 years?). He is second to Superman at this point, physically - it's a no brainer that Superman is ahead. But Pre-52, they were equal in strength.

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#38 Posted by Lvenger (36347 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@comicdude23: Superman did put him in his place on the next page of that fight but I get the picture of what you're saying here. Shazam should be second to Superman in physical stats and the much clearer magic source of his powers is coming across more here than Pre Flashpoint. So agreed with what you're saying here.

I agree, but Billy is inexperienced at this point (and he's been Superman for 5 years?). He is second to Superman at this point, physically - it's a no brainer that Superman is ahead. But Pre-52, they were equal in strength.

True that he is. Very inexperienced all things considered but the experience gap won't be easy to close.

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#39 Posted by comicdude23 (11901 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@comicdude23 said:

@lvenger said:

@comicdude23: Superman did put him in his place on the next page of that fight but I get the picture of what you're saying here. Shazam should be second to Superman in physical stats and the much clearer magic source of his powers is coming across more here than Pre Flashpoint. So agreed with what you're saying here.

I agree, but Billy is inexperienced at this point (and he's been Superman for 5 years?). He is second to Superman at this point, physically - it's a no brainer that Superman is ahead. But Pre-52, they were equal in strength.

True that he is. Very inexperienced all things considered but the experience gap won't be easy to close.

No it won't be easy to close, but he can use his magic more effectively. Pre-52, he usually just grabbed Superman and said Shazam, but now he can punch with magic more frequently (as the lightning is visible).

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#40 Posted by Lvenger (36347 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23: That's what I personally will be interested in seeing in Shazam's developing powers in the New 52, his use of lightning in combat.

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#41 Posted by Joygirl (21036 posts) - - Show Bio

Play up her skill, gear, and intellect -- but she should be physically weaker and slower than any kryptonian.

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#42 Posted by Pokeysteve (12033 posts) - - Show Bio

But, they do prove something - that Shazam can knock around top-tier powerhouses. And Batman hitting and hurting Hulk and Spectre is PIS, because Batman isn't a superhuman or a top-tier powerhouse. Billy has always been a top-tier powerhouse, even pre-52 he could smack around Superman with strength. Comparing Batman's strength to Shazam's is a poor example.

They show he's top tier as he's expected to be but no where near Superman. Wonder Woman knocked Superman around too but it doesn't put her as his equal. Shazam IS a top tier character but not based off of him hitting a few people. Then again that's the main reason he's put up there with Supe pre 52 as well.

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#43 Edited by comicdude23 (11901 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23 said:

But, they do prove something - that Shazam can knock around top-tier powerhouses. And Batman hitting and hurting Hulk and Spectre is PIS, because Batman isn't a superhuman or a top-tier powerhouse. Billy has always been a top-tier powerhouse, even pre-52 he could smack around Superman with strength. Comparing Batman's strength to Shazam's is a poor example.

They show he's top tier as he's expected to be but no where near Superman. Wonder Woman knocked Superman around too but it doesn't put her as his equal. Shazam IS a top tier character but not based off of him hitting a few people. Then again that's the main reason he's put up there with Supe pre 52 as well.

Captain Marvel was able to physically match Superman pre-52, in strength alone - Superman exceeded him with external abilities. But he is second to Superman in strength in the New-52, I didn't exactly say he was Superman's equal at this point (only pre-52 was he equal in strength). But the way that Shazam is able to knock around Superman shows he is near his ball-park, and Superman wasn't exactly holding back either. And it's not just based on him hitting other characters, the respect thread I posted showcases more of his feats (which rank him as a top tier powerhouse).

He isn't too far away from Superman, the new-52 Shazam inherited the Wizard's powers (that's why he's more powerful than before), it's just that he's very, very inexperienced.

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#44 Edited by Bezza (5019 posts) - - Show Bio

..moving back to Wonder Woman how strong do you want her to be?..people say she has no feats in New 52 and there is probably truth in that, as she hasn't really done a lot of lifting stuff or fighting top tier DC characters outside the greek gods world, but in issue 23, she did seem to give First Born a better fight than Orion, who in Superman 20 seemed to give Superman himself a fairly good scrap, so I'd say she IS in Superman's ball park, but not as strong.

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#45 Posted by Pokeysteve (12033 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Marvel was able to physically match Superman pre-52, in strength alone - Superman exceeded him with external abilities. But he is second to Superman in strength in the New-52, I didn't exactly say he was Superman's equal at this point (only pre-52 was he equal in strength). But the way that Shazam is able to knock around Superman shows he is near his ball-park, and Superman wasn't exactly holding back either. And it's not just based on him hitting other characters, the respect thread I posted showcases more of his feats (which rank him as a top tier powerhouse).

He isn't too far away from Superman, the new-52 Shazam inherited the Wizard's powers (that's why he's more powerful than before), it's just that he's very, very inexperienced.

He has NOTHING to warrant calling him second to Superman. His ONLY feats are punching Superman (once), punching a weakened Martian (once), and punching Wonder Woman (once). That is it!

Wonder Woman has beaten Supergirl, also "knocked Superman around", and she has a couple lifting feats.
Even J'onn was shown being able to stand against the entire League (with the outcome unknown).
Even Supergirl has feats above Shazam so far.

I'm sure he'll he'll get more and more feats as we see more of him but right now he is no where near being second to Superman. To think otherwise is just bias.

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#46 Posted by Baron_von_Santa (5846 posts) - - Show Bio

agree with the guy above me. one punch means nothing.

superman was only angered.

Martian manhunter was at less than half power, and only got a bloody nose.

Wonder Woman is weaker than both superman and MM, so the outcome might be different

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#47 Edited by ArchiZoom (1128 posts) - - Show Bio

@baron_von_santa: well DC clearly states wonder woman is the second most powerful hero in the DCU hence stronger than Shazam and MM.

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#48 Edited by comicdude23 (11901 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve said:

@comicdude23 said:

Captain Marvel was able to physically match Superman pre-52, in strength alone - Superman exceeded him with external abilities. But he is second to Superman in strength in the New-52, I didn't exactly say he was Superman's equal at this point (only pre-52 was he equal in strength). But the way that Shazam is able to knock around Superman shows he is near his ball-park, and Superman wasn't exactly holding back either. And it's not just based on him hitting other characters, the respect thread I posted showcases more of his feats (which rank him as a top tier powerhouse).

He isn't too far away from Superman, the new-52 Shazam inherited the Wizard's powers (that's why he's more powerful than before), it's just that he's very, very inexperienced.

He has NOTHING to warrant calling him second to Superman. His ONLY feats are punching Superman (once), punching a weakened Martian (once), and punching Wonder Woman (once). That is it!

Wonder Woman has beaten Supergirl, also "knocked Superman around", and she has a couple lifting feats.

Even J'onn was shown being able to stand against the entire League (with the outcome unknown).

Even Supergirl has feats above Shazam so far.

I'm sure he'll he'll get more and more feats as we see more of him but right now he is no where near being second to Superman. To think otherwise is just bias.

I'll say it again: read the respect thread.

Did you see what his punch did to Superman? The difference is Superman wasn't holding back against Shazam (but he was against Supergirl and Wonder Woman), the punch did more damage than Wonder Woman was able to inflict,

I didn't say he beat Wonder Woman, but he was clearly able to use his speed as an advantage against her. Also, Wonder Woman was clearly not holding back at all, the scans imply she was bloodlusted.

J'onn showed good durability against Shazam but he also remarked Shazam's strength and stated himself that Shazam was strong enough to break everyone out of prison.

I could understand the case for Wonder Woman being on Shazam's level, but I don't see it with Supergirl. Supergirl isn't above Shazam, there's no way she'd deal with his magic - Yes, she was able to send Superman flying and hurt him, but he was clearly holding back against her in their encounter. Superman was clearly not holding back against Shazam.

He was unaffected by Pandora's bullets (which killed one of the Deadly Sins and harmed Phantom Stranger), against Wonder Woman he displayed his super speed to catch her punch and throw her.

I don't really have any personal bias with Shazam, but New-52 wise he's a top tier powerhouse.

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#49 Posted by comicdude23 (11901 posts) - - Show Bio

@baron_von_santa: well DC clearly states wonder woman is the second most powerful hero in the DCU hence stronger than Shazam and MM.

Not backed up.

agree with the guy above me. one punch means nothing.

superman was only angered.

Martian manhunter was at less than half power, and only got a bloody nose.

Wonder Woman is weaker than both superman and MM, so the outcome might be different

Exactly. He was angered/not holding back and the one punch clearly hurt him enough to anger him.

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#50 Posted by Baron_von_Santa (5846 posts) - - Show Bio

@archizoom: i had love some feats to back up the claims

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