Its fine, there are some cool moments every now and again but the main problems are the same as all the runs in rebirth. Not enough action and too much talking.

I don't think there’s too much talking, just so little to sink your teeth into. Likewise, there’s plenty of action, but it’s underwhelming

Furthermore, Wilson doesn’t have a good voice for Wonder Woman, she’s mopey, wishy-washy, words stumble out of her mouth, at times she’s a little too harsh…she’s a bit of a drip really

Action - I think this is the biggest problem with the run. The fights/ action scenes are underwhelming and too far apart. Diana hasn't really done much to impress power or skill-wise. The best feat she's had post rebirth was the fight with Darkseid.

Story & Character - I like the fact that it's diving into Greek Myth but unfortunately the story just isn't all that interesting. It's clear Willow's arc is heavily inspired by the movie which has in some ways limited her. There are more interesting greek Myth stories/ interactions she could have created. Dialogue kind of drags on and makes the comic hard to read. The only comic run Diana is in that I'm into is the JL Dark one.

I can tell Willow wants us to believe Rebirth Wonder woman is powerful but it's like DC chose a low power ceiling for Diana and Willow is limited by it.

@agent41: All I can do is speculate but I think it's partially cause of the DCEU. The WW movie was a success and thus DC wants to show fans of the movie a Wonder Woman they recognise. Hence why after the JL movie, the power gap between Diana and Supes has massively increased. Not just in GWW's run but also in the JL comic. So it seems to be a company/DC-wide thing. That's the only reason I can think of. Beyond that I have no idea. If Diana is even remotely powerful in 84 it should have an impact on the comic.

But GWW is careful with the dialogue and stuff. Like in previous issues it was Giganta that talked about how powerful Diana is but when she showed some of that power, it was really underwhelming.

I wish I could have a proper conversation with like Jim Lee or someone at DC. Just to explain why Wonder woman actually needs to be powerful.

@agent41: New 52 WW was closer to Supes and arguably above GL in my opinion. Hopefully rebirth WW will get something comparable to god mode soon. I don't want to get into a debate but I believe this soft reboot was one of the worst things to ever happen to WW. Just my opinion, we can agree to disagree.

I'll be honest, I find Wonder Woman's flagship comic to be boring as hell, but then that's the way I've felt about most of Rebirth WW. Even when it was exciting (Darkseid vs Zeus anyone?) it was just boring in disguise.

Wonder Woman like it or not is a political comic. She's the ultimate Social Justice Warrior and I'm glad after years of DC trying to run away from politics, they're letting G. Willow Wilson reflect that. The book is challenging, it's not for everyone. There's a lot of dialogue but it's always thought provoking.

If you had told me a story about a duel sexed god would be so enlightening and contain a look at personal freedoms and how they have to be balanced with obligations to your friends and family could be handled so well in a comic book I wouldn't have believed it.

I can temporarily forgo all the punching and kicking for something that expands my world view.

I hate the god mode. that is not what she needs and we´ll see what Patty does in the upcoming movie but I have a really bad feeling about it.

DC WB are too reactionary.

By the didn´t JL bomb and one of the reasons was how idiotic it was the JL being soloed by Superman. And they are now going with that. wow I need to read JL to see just how moronic DC has become. But really they should go back to her power set from Rucka´s initial run.

I don´t know why he didn´t bring all that back.

@jphulk26: Don't worry I don't think "god mode" or "Witch mode" or any major power up is going to be part of WW84. If you liked the first movie then you will probably like the second. Whether you like it or not Patty has a specific vision for the character. I might not be a big fan of what she's been saying but you might like it. They've already made the first version of the film so hopefully we'll see something at comic con.

Hehehe I've been so worried about it sucking that I've had two nightmares about it.

I was going to scan all the examples of WW being a powerhouse in this run but it probably wouldn't change your mind and it would just be a waste of my time. Everything isn't for everybody, you either like something or you don't. That's too bad because I'm loving it and wish I wasn't alone.

Too much politicking and trying to cater to a certain fan base, essentially, starting with Azz run; I think this goal is clearly preventing good stories from being told. I think the writer needs to leave the Olympians alone and move on with a story and into Dr. Psycho. I'm not so sure that it's the writer's fault, however. This is the quagmire that I'm glad that the New Charmed avoided very skillfully, but something that I was suspecting would happen; but, it didn't and the series stood good upon its own. Unfortunately, from what I heard a while back, the New She-ra didn't avoid this problem but embraced and ran right into it.

No, she or the writers going back to Azz have been trying to cater to a fan base or attract a certain type of fan base; that's not about getting into political themes; I think my last post was a little bit misunderstood.

No you're wrong. Azzarello was an attempt at attracting straight white males to Wonder Woman's title by avoiding progressive political themes, introducing traditional patriarchal elements, sullying the Amazons and flooding the book with men they could relate to. It worked, but at the same time it angered and alienated Wonder Woman's core fan base which mostly consists of liberals.

DC reversed this by rehiring Greg Rucka and allowing him to shift the book back to it's liberal roots. Then they hedged their bet by mandating James Robinson write a run completely about patriarchy where the focus was on Wonder Woman's relationships with her newly created brother, absentee father and Darkseid.

When that failed to please Wonder Woman fans DC announced a woman writer known for her progressive political leanings would take over the title and that's where we are now. I feel if G. Willow Wilson doesn't catch on and sway fans DC will swing the pendulum in the other direction and piss most of us off again.

Pretty much everything said right here.

@agent41: Politics are fine but Wilson’s quite heavy handed and on-the-nose about it, there’s no nuance, wit or subtly to it whatsoever. What’s more, given that she’s a card-carrying liberal through-and-through, her views are all too predictable, she’s not even offering anything new, nothing you haven’t heard or thought about before

Oh, yeah, you just reminded me; there was Rucka 2.0 after Azz; one thing that I didn't/don't like is Azz's decision to turn us so focused on the Olympians, but probably at the direction of editorial; he actually considered using Dr. Psycho, instead, which I liked; how much excitement would Azz have generated, if he'd actually used Dr. Psycho and the focused was now in that direction? It's no way that Wonder Woman could not be exiting now, unless they'd completely altered his character (e.g. removing his main problem involving his looks and women making fun of him because of his looks shaping his character; and being betrayed by women).

But, I disagree; Wonder Woman wasn't always a political character or catering to the fan base that DC is currently trying to draw (e.g. or, actually, having Wonder Woman focused on the Olympians to draw the impression that she was always solely soaked in the magical theme and was a warrior, when she wasn't, and is something started by Azz's run); that's a tune that's quite recent; Rucka 1.0 was the only other occasion when she was political/catering to this elusive set of fans; Phil may have made her political/catering too, in the current direction; anywhere else, including even Perez's run didn't have her political/catering towards the magic image; nothing in the pre-character era showed her that way, as a magical being. Marston made her scantly-clad for his time, and did the bondage, which I liked, but, that was liberating for women, at the time; and, then, the fan based that Perez possibly introduced, but, didn't really start latching on to her, until Rucka 1.0; and, that's what I'm disliking, as if that fan based somehow shaped Wonder Woman, when it was my fan base who liked Marston and Messner-Loebs that shaped her first, original, and loyal fan base which have been walked all over for quite some time now; it would have been very groundbreaking for Azz to have used Dr. Psycho, instead, and would have been a payoff for us for our long suffering patience with DC on Wonder Woman.

The real truth about the matter is above.

Agreed.

I'm running into the same trouble with my script ideas. I'm running through how world build and set everything up, creating what ultimately is a history spanning thousands of years. But, the messages and themes that I can gather and make up are very simple.

I'm basically down to map the whole "Divine Realm". I'm genuinely considering drawing a map. Once I start I'm not going back though. Looking through greek myth has me seeing so many places and tribes to use. I feel like I'm writing a old Greek Epic told through a modern lenz with Diana (the premise of most WW stories imo). You have tribes like the Hyperboreans, the Centaurs, the Satyrs (their more illusive), the Telkhines, the Cynocephali, the Kobalos, the Panotii, the Arimaspi, the Gegenees, the Pygmies, the Blemmyes, the Gorgades, the Sparti, and the Myrmidons. The Amazons and Atlanitians also of course. All the monsters and creatures.

ALL this potential for Diana to show off her skills as a warrior goddess and diplomatic scholar, interacting with all these tribes in some Tolken/Martin world, wasted because people keep doing the same thing with her.

@masterwitcher88: Damn, you're really going deep. I'm really into Greek Myth and even I don't know some of those tribes.

Yea, it's crazy. My interest in Diana came from her potential and the potential of her verse. She's the most popular Greek Myth related superhero (Marvel/ DC) and as a result gives us a world with multiple realms to discover.

My favs are the Telkhines which are a small immortal group (10-11) jackal humanoids (think Anubis/Set) who were wizard-blacksmiths, with great magic power. They weren't evil but they weren't good either, think chaotic neutral. They had elemental control, control over nature, and shapeshifting. They could mix Stygian water with Sulphur, to create a deadly life killing gas (Screams like a formula Col./Dr. Maru would love to get her hands on). Poseidon's trident is imbued with there magic. They forged the sickle of Kronus too, the sickle that castrated his father Uranus the concept of the sky above itself. Zeus hated their frivolous use of godlike magic.

Unfortunately its more one realm with supposedly near continent sized islands not 9 different ones. What's cool though is that the map is less like a big tree and more like westeros and middle earth. I might take some creative liberties with the layout, right now I'm thinking the geography (land bases and islands) similar to the ancient greek world, then change up a few places to match the myth, then go full playing god with how everything looks.

@masterwitcher88: Hmmm what's their connection to the Cyclopses? (since they're the ones that forged Posiedon's trident to help the Olympians win the titanomachy as a gift for freeing them or is that a different interpretation). True @ Dr Maru though. I guess I would have to do more research before picking a fav.

It would be great to see Diana go up against creatures/ beings like Typhon

Yea. Maps can have a great impact on the story one's trying to tell. But I like the effort/ passion you're putting into it.

None. Telkhines have there origin all over the place some interpretations say they are demons born from Chaos the entity that existed before creation others say they were born from the blood that spilled into the sea after Kronus castrated his father. Also remember that those are not the only Cyclopses but the original 3; Arges, Brontes, and Steropes (Bright, Thunderer, Lightener) who forged the thunderbolts of Zeus. Later authors made them the workmen of Hephaestus. Apollo killed Steropes as revenge after Zeus used a bolt of lighting to kill his son Asclepius. Poseidon is the father of all other cyclopeses (the man-eating shepherd ones that Odysseus ran into).

Typhon is a monster I'm 100% interested in. He's definitely above the Gods and even Titans in power since he is a child of Gaia and Tartarus. If you recall I had him as a monster Diana fights along side Donna and the JL:Dark in that Odyssey I planned.

I watch interviews with writers I like and I saw one with George R.R. Martian about how impactful the setting can be in the world your playing god in and how people, fans of LOTR, would have posters not of the characters but of the place, middle-earth. I think after the map it would be pretty easy to start describing how each tribe lives; their society, culture, interactions with others, etc...

@masterwitcher88: Oh yea,I know about Posiedon's children. Speaking of which, you'll have the Atlantean high borns as descendants of Atlas (the one that's a child of Poseidon)?

Do you mind posting what you have finished so far?

Yea. Greek Myth has so many fascinating monsters.

That's interesting. True @ easier to describe how each tribe lives. It can also allow you to map out histories. Explaining their movements and why they chose to settle where they did and how all that impacts the story you're trying to tell. Ofcourse it depends on the story as you don't want to give the reader too much exposition.

Probably(yes), but I'm not super invested in the Atlantean side of the story yet, outside their war with the Amazons. I'm looking at all the ancient wars and how they started to see why the Amazons would war against the Atlanteans, mainly looking at the Peloponnesian war seeing the power struggles between Athens and Sparta.

On paper I got nothing I'm quite literally on the brain storming part of all this, everything in the noggin. But I am looking for a large map of the ancient greek world with no images just the geography. I'll buy multiple maps an start with a light pencil outline of all the locations in WW's Divine Realm.

I'm also looking at the politics of the Amazons, the hierarchy and all that. I like the idea of there being a queen with a table of councils AND a senate. Sparta had 2 kings each from a noble family which I liked at first but realized it wouldn't make much sense in the timeline with Hippolyta being the 10th queen.

I do have a JLD story idea, I don't have a full outline but I can post it on the story ideas thread later. Also, I think I found a way to use Jason but in a more appropriate way then what Robbinson did. And he officially wouldn't be Diana's brother.

I often think that starting with an issue 0 as a guide to introduce the world. It have Diana's final origin, her power/abilities, her weapons, her companions, her enemies, a map of Themyscira, a double page map of the Divine Realm, artwork on each of the races and their descriptions. This issue 0 would come out after the first several issues.

@masterwitcher88: Oh yea that makes sense. Yes, the reason they fought is important not just for the past but establishing whether tension still exists to this day. But I'll just wait. I'd rather read it when it comes out. But I am looking forward to it.

Yea, I think having Diana as a member of the JLD is one of the smartest moves DC has made in recent years. Her interactions with some of the characters have potential.

I read that Wilson’s last-solicited issue is October’s Wonder Woman #81, with Orlando writing November’s #82 and #83. Orlando has previously written Wonder Woman #51 through #55 and #73 as standalone guest issues. In that I believe that Steve Orlando won the GLAAD award I am concerned this may mean that discussions of his qualities as a writer may by outshouted by a set of pro or con issues based on a popular politics of debate that leaves me cold. A Wonder Woman choice of writer is not a Ruby Rose choice as actor. Diana is a problematical complex creature born of a complex fictional past and created by a writer with a home-life melange that was no simple cliche either.

I don't, as a white straight guy, want to be either a target audience... or the heavy in a comic. WW story-lines and comics in general, as a recreational tonic, ought reflect issues that include us all...somehow. For instance I have no problem identifying with a gay detective, Milo Sturgis, taking his life issues in stride, just the way I deal with Rina Lazarus's Judaism. Both the Alex Delaware and Rina Lazarus detective series illuminate the special travails of their heroes, yet their mysteries never leave a Shared World -[the husband and wife writers Jonathan and Faye Kellerman are both Jewish]. I like the Shared World of diverse folks better than a Polemically Calculated approach to sorting and valuing humans. Mr. Orlando... HINT HINT....