Follow

    Wonder Woman

    Character » Wonder Woman appears in 8719 issues.

    The Amazon princess, blessed with god-like super abilities, Wonder Woman is one of Earth's most powerful defenders of peace, justice, and equality and a member of the Justice League. She is considered an archetype for many heroines outside of comic book. Her initial origin depicted her as a clay baby brought to life by patron goddess Aphrodite, but in recent years she has been depicted as the daughter of Zeus and Amazon queen Hippolyta.

    Her shield makes her bracelets useless.

    Avatar image for saint_sophie
    Saint_Sophie

    7263

    Forum Posts

    1019

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 2

    Obviously. Why do they keep trying to make a shield happen for her?

    It makes her bracelets a more iconic more recognizable weapon seem useless and pointless being on her arm. Both in the DCEU and even in the comics the shield seems to popping up a lot more often now.

    xoxo, -Saint Sophie

    Avatar image for ashetdust
    AsheTDust

    2216

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    Because its far easier to make her more powerful and keep adding abilities than it is to make her actually interesting.

    Avatar image for AssertingValor
    AssertingValor

    10853

    Forum Posts

    6403

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 65

    Yeah the shield sucks. One of WWs high points is blocking bullets and other attacks with her super speed, giving her a shield makes her look more vulnerable.

    Avatar image for outside_85
    Outside_85

    23518

    Forum Posts

    18735

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 39

    User Lists: 1

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    Avatar image for csg_cl
    CSG_CL

    3234

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Avatar image for outside_85
    Outside_85

    23518

    Forum Posts

    18735

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 39

    User Lists: 1

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    Avatar image for csg_cl
    CSG_CL

    3234

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Avatar image for ashetdust
    AsheTDust

    2216

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    They need to give her a magic spear too! Then she can have the full set.

    Avatar image for lvenger
    Lvenger

    36475

    Forum Posts

    899

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 50

    User Lists: 18

    They need to give her a magic spear too! Then she can have the full set.

    You mean like this one? :P

    No Caption Provided

    Avatar image for ashetdust
    AsheTDust

    2216

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    WW is worse than Barbie, she literally has everything now!

    Avatar image for scorpio_cassadine
    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

    2139

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @agent41 said:
    @ashetdust said:

    Because its far easier to make her more powerful and keep adding abilities than it is to make her actually interesting.

    Characters get upgrades all the time, so nothing new there. Make her intersting?. That's totallly subjective. WW is a character that a lot of people find intersting.

    She's a character lots of people found interesting before she had a sword and shield. If they really wanted to upgrade her they'd ditch the sword and shield and give her back her battleax and have it connected to the lasso like this. -------------------------------------------------+===)EE

    Pretend the double E's are double W's on the battleax and the dotted line is the lasso. That's a melee weapon for your @$$!

    No Caption Provided

    Avatar image for scouterv
    ScouterV

    7764

    Forum Posts

    332

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    Avatar image for ashetdust
    AsheTDust

    2216

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    :

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    Avatar image for deactivated-599b4bc7465db
    deactivated-599b4bc7465db

    1759

    Forum Posts

    129

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 10

    @ashetdust said:

    :

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    None of those things determine whether she is a mary sue or not. She has a lot of tools in her belt just like any character in her position would and its up to the writer to use them in a way that isn't "mary sue" like just like writers for Batman and Superman.

    Avatar image for scorpio_cassadine
    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

    2139

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    No Caption Provided
    No Caption Provided

    She already is, but when it was for a major threat it made sense. It doesn't make sense for just hanging around Justice League headquarters, or for everyday enemies like in the most recent issue where added weapons are overkill.

    But yeah, Artemis' ax is pretty sweet, I forgot about that.

    No Caption Provided

    Still she doesn't have Diana's various powers, so she needs all the help she can get. Yet she doesn't have bullet deflecting bracelets or a shield, her ax is enough. It's only temporary though, until she gets her hands on the Bow of Ra and goes back to primarily being the archer she was created to be.

    Avatar image for ashetdust
    AsheTDust

    2216

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #18  Edited By AsheTDust
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    :

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    None of those things determine whether she is a mary sue or not. She has a lot of tools in her belt just like any character in her position would and its up to the writer to use them in a way that isn't "mary sue" like just like writers for Batman and Superman.

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    The same writers who gave her everything under the sun? Why would they give the character all this stuff if they didn't intend to use them? Sorry, not that optimistic about their writing ability.

    Avatar image for deactivated-599b4bc7465db
    deactivated-599b4bc7465db

    1759

    Forum Posts

    129

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 10

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    :

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    None of those things determine whether she is a mary sue or not. She has a lot of tools in her belt just like any character in her position would and its up to the writer to use them in a way that isn't "mary sue" like just like writers for Batman and Superman.

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    The same writers who gave her everything under the sun? Why would they give the character all this stuff if they didn't intend to use them? Sorry, not that optimistic about their writing ability.

    She is not as invulnerable as superman, weak against magic, constantly fighting people/things as strong or stronger than her, wearing a lasso that can be used against her. I can't really recall too many stories of her being a Mary Sue.

    Avatar image for scouterv
    ScouterV

    7764

    Forum Posts

    332

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #20  Edited By ScouterV

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    No Caption Provided
    No Caption Provided

    She already is, but when it was for a major threat it made sense. It doesn't make sense for just hanging around Justice League headquarters, or for everyday enemies like in the most recent issue where added weapons are overkill.

    But yeah, Artemis' ax is pretty sweet, I forgot about that.

    No Caption Provided

    Still she doesn't have Diana's various powers, so she needs all the help she can get. Yet she doesn't have bullet deflecting bracelets or a shield, her ax is enough. It's only temporary though, until she gets her hands on the Bow of Ra and goes back to primarily being the archer she was created to be.

    That's one interpretation of it. On the other hand, it shows that Diana at all times is a dangerous enemy. She carries her arsenal with her because she fights dangerous threats that require it. There may be off-panel situations where she doesn't need to use her sword or shield, but when we see her, she is in the midst of either the beginning, middle, or end of an exciting and daring adventure that should test Diana each and every time. Otherwise, what's the point of reading?

    And to be fair, she even acknowledged she didn't need her bracelets. Her axe was more than enough to deflect bullets from Jason. And if she were to continue to use her axe (which she seems to have a fondness for that wouldn't see her simply abandon it) why couldn't she use both?

    Avatar image for judasnixon
    judasnixon

    12815

    Forum Posts

    699

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 4

    Eh..... The shield is kind of pointless. You can explain it away saying the shield is part of her sword training, and fighting style..... It's really for looks though.

    Avatar image for outside_85
    Outside_85

    23518

    Forum Posts

    18735

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 39

    User Lists: 1

    Eh..... The shield is kind of pointless. You can explain it away saying the shield is part of her sword training, and fighting style..... It's really for looks though.

    Unlike Artemis... who appears to have been playing World of Warcraft and Warhammer a little too much. :)

    Avatar image for saint_sophie
    Saint_Sophie

    7263

    Forum Posts

    1019

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 2

    :

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    She couldn't save her mother during the New 52. She couldn't undo what Donna did. She can't get the gods to stop breathing off her back and the like. I stopped reading after issue 45 so Idk what else happened. Also following Rebirth, she can't suddenly bring back Steve's now dead friends from the dead. There are a lot of things Diana can't do, undo or change. There are many beings who are stronger than her, godly beings who can't really be put down by pure physical force alone, etc. And she has flaws, problems, a personal life like you and I. I don't really find her to be a marysue at all.

    xoxo, -Saint Sophie

    Avatar image for ashetdust
    AsheTDust

    2216

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #24  Edited By AsheTDust
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    :

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    None of those things determine whether she is a mary sue or not. She has a lot of tools in her belt just like any character in her position would and its up to the writer to use them in a way that isn't "mary sue" like just like writers for Batman and Superman.

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    The same writers who gave her everything under the sun? Why would they give the character all this stuff if they didn't intend to use them? Sorry, not that optimistic about their writing ability.

    She is not as invulnerable as superman, weak against magic, constantly fighting people/things as strong or stronger than her, wearing a lasso that can be used against her. I can't really recall too many stories of her being a Mary Sue.

    Not as invulnerable as Superman. That's not a weakness. Heck her armor and weapons make her just as powerful if not more powerful than Superman.

    Weak against magic. ummm no. She has the same resistances to it most other people have. Not a weakness. Superman is specifically weak to it. She isn't.

    Wearing a lasso that can be used against her. Not even going to reply to that, you're being silly.

    So what we really have is she constantly fights people/things as strong or stronger than her. That is not a weakness. That's called being a comic character.

    Tell me, when was the last time she got beat, and I'm not talking about where she came back the very next issue and evened the odds. I'm talking about her getting the heck beat out of her and she ended up out of commission for months If not a year or two. Batman has died and at one point had his back broke. Superman has died. Both were gone for years. Wonder Woman has...?

    Avatar image for ashetdust
    AsheTDust

    2216

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @ashetdust said:

    :

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    She couldn't save her mother during the New 52. She couldn't undo what Donna did. She can't get the gods to stop breathing off her back and the like. I stopped reading after issue 45 so Idk what else happened. Also following Rebirth, she can't suddenly bring back Steve's now dead friends from the dead. There are a lot of things Diana can't do, undo or change. There are many beings who are stronger than her, godly beings who can't really be put down by pure physical force alone, etc. And she has flaws, problems, a personal life like you and I. I don't really find her to be a marysue at all.

    xoxo, -Saint Sophie

    I get that she has problems. I expect it, heck I would be disappointed if she didn't. But for all her troubles when has it really affected her negatively. I mean really negatively.

    As in caused her death? Left her a cripple? Caused her to turn her back on her friends and turn to the dark side? Given her a weakness to a fire? Left her trapped in a different dimension for years? Superman, Batman, Hal Jordan, Martian Manhunter, and Flash, had those things happen to them. Diana not being able to raise the dead doesn't really compare does it?

    What flaws does she have? I've never been able to find one. And I mean a real flaw. Not being able to sing in the shower isn't a flaw.

    Lets compare Diana to Bruce for a second. Honestly, can you imagine any sort of happily ever after ending for the Batman? What about Wonder Woman? It not nearly as hard for her is it?

    I don't think she's a full mary sue. But she is close and in my opinion getting closer all the time.

    Avatar image for ashetdust
    AsheTDust

    2216

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @agent41 said:
    @ashetdust said:
    @saint_sophie said:
    @ashetdust said:

    :

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    She couldn't save her mother during the New 52. She couldn't undo what Donna did. She can't get the gods to stop breathing off her back and the like. I stopped reading after issue 45 so Idk what else happened. Also following Rebirth, she can't suddenly bring back Steve's now dead friends from the dead. There are a lot of things Diana can't do, undo or change. There are many beings who are stronger than her, godly beings who can't really be put down by pure physical force alone, etc. And she has flaws, problems, a personal life like you and I. I don't really find her to be a marysue at all.

    xoxo, -Saint Sophie

    I get that she has problems. I expect it, heck I would be disappointed if she didn't. But for all her troubles when has it really affected her negatively. I mean really negatively.

    As in caused her death? Left her a cripple? Caused her to turn her back on her friends and turn to the dark side? Given her a weakness to a fire? Left her trapped in a different dimension for years? Superman, Batman, Hal Jordan, Martian Manhunter, and Flash, had those things happen to them. Diana not being able to raise the dead doesn't really compare does it?

    What flaws does she have? I've never been able to find one. And I mean a real flaw. Not being able to sing in the shower isn't a flaw.

    Lets compare Diana to Bruce for a second. Honestly, can you imagine any sort of happily ever after ending for the Batman? What about Wonder Woman? It not nearly as hard for her is it?

    I don't think she's a full mary sue. But she is close and in my opinion getting closer all the time.

    Batman=biggest plot device character of all time. He doesn't help your case. And you trully ignored everything i said in my previous comment.

    Calm down. I was typing my other reply to Sophie while you were typing yours. So I didn't see it.

    How long was she powerless? How long was she blind?

    Avatar image for ashetdust
    AsheTDust

    2216

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    Answer the question.

    For. How. Long.

    A couple of issues is nothing. I commented about that above.

    Her problems and trials have not be nearly as severe as the other characters I mentioned.

    Avatar image for ashetdust
    AsheTDust

    2216

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    Its funny, I searched the web all over, but for the life of me I can't seem to find a picture or discussion of Diana with a white cane and a seeing eye dog. Just about how she kept fighting using her other exceptional senses and amazon/goddess training.

    I guess it wasn't real blindness, was it?

    She has died, a couple of times. What comic character hasn't? But only for a couple of issues. She sure didn't stay dead long did she? Unlike you know, the other characters I mentioned having dealt with far more.

    Avatar image for ashetdust
    AsheTDust

    2216

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #34  Edited By AsheTDust

    @agent41 said:
    @ashetdust said:

    Its funny, I searched the web all over, but for the life of me I can't seem to find a picture or discussion of Diana with a white cane and a seeing eye dog. Just about how she kept fighting using her other exceptional senses and amazon/goddess training.

    I guess it wasn't real blindness, was it?

    She has died, a couple of times. What comic character hasn't? But only for a couple of issues. She sure didn't stay dead long did she? Unlike you know, the other characters I mentioned having dealt with far more.

    You could repond properly by tagging the person you know.

    That's what happens when being a super being is part of your true origin and not the result of being a plot device darling like Batman depending on what the story needs him to be.

    You said that death was important, now it's not?. Make up your mind. The most famous and iconic female super hero couldn't stay dead for years. You expect DC to spend years without publshing stories about the biggest female super hero of all time?. What kind of logic is that?. Also batman can't let go of the past, that doesn't make his case "better", it's totally subjective. Many characters go through more and learn to let go and try to be happy. Diana sure has gone through a lot, but she still lives life. Still not afraid of living life and trying to enjoy the good it can bring. While being in a pretty much never ending quest for the truth. Three is a message of hope and self empowerment there.

    I could tag properly but I'm getting tired and its late. I'll respond to this tomorrow because you just aren't getting what I'm saying. So obviously there is a communication breakdown.

    Avatar image for deactivated-599b4bc7465db
    deactivated-599b4bc7465db

    1759

    Forum Posts

    129

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 10

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    :

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    None of those things determine whether she is a mary sue or not. She has a lot of tools in her belt just like any character in her position would and its up to the writer to use them in a way that isn't "mary sue" like just like writers for Batman and Superman.

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    The same writers who gave her everything under the sun? Why would they give the character all this stuff if they didn't intend to use them? Sorry, not that optimistic about their writing ability.

    She is not as invulnerable as superman, weak against magic, constantly fighting people/things as strong or stronger than her, wearing a lasso that can be used against her. I can't really recall too many stories of her being a Mary Sue.

    Not as invulnerable as Superman. That's not a weakness. Heck her armor and weapons make her just as powerful if not more powerful than Superman.

    Weak against magic. ummm no. She has the same resistances to it most other people have. Not a weakness. Superman is specifically weak to it. She isn't.

    Wearing a lasso that can be used against her. Not even going to reply to that, you're being silly.

    So what we really have is she constantly fights people/things as strong or stronger than her. That is not a weakness. That's called being a comic character.

    Tell me, when was the last time she got beat, and I'm not talking about where she came back the very next issue and evened the odds. I'm talking about her getting the heck beat out of her and she ended up out of commission for months If not a year or two. Batman has died and at one point had his back broke. Superman has died. Both were gone for years. Wonder Woman has...?

    All of those things are weaknesses and weaknesses that have been exploited plenty of times in her comics. Im not being silly and if you don't know about these things chances are you haven't read her comics or not enough of them.

    She rarely wears armor unless the situation calls for it and usually she's still barely wearing anything

    She is weak against magic when the writer wants her to be and she has often fallen prey to magic probably more than Superman has.

    Her lasso has been used against her before

    She has had a supporting cast full of nothing but over powered gods and goddesses for the past few years and even before that she regularly fought other characters along with olympians that were stronger than her while the same can not be said for superman

    Diana hasn't gotten killed like that because Diana has not been given the amount of reverence and love Batman and Superman have, so a storyline where she dies and takes up multiple titles and sends waves throughout the DC universe wouldn't even make sense to create

    Avatar image for ashetdust
    AsheTDust

    2216

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @ashetdust said:
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    :

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    None of those things determine whether she is a mary sue or not. She has a lot of tools in her belt just like any character in her position would and its up to the writer to use them in a way that isn't "mary sue" like just like writers for Batman and Superman.

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    The same writers who gave her everything under the sun? Why would they give the character all this stuff if they didn't intend to use them? Sorry, not that optimistic about their writing ability.

    She is not as invulnerable as superman, weak against magic, constantly fighting people/things as strong or stronger than her, wearing a lasso that can be used against her. I can't really recall too many stories of her being a Mary Sue.

    Not as invulnerable as Superman. That's not a weakness. Heck her armor and weapons make her just as powerful if not more powerful than Superman.

    Weak against magic. ummm no. She has the same resistances to it most other people have. Not a weakness. Superman is specifically weak to it. She isn't.

    Wearing a lasso that can be used against her. Not even going to reply to that, you're being silly.

    So what we really have is she constantly fights people/things as strong or stronger than her. That is not a weakness. That's called being a comic character.

    Tell me, when was the last time she got beat, and I'm not talking about where she came back the very next issue and evened the odds. I'm talking about her getting the heck beat out of her and she ended up out of commission for months If not a year or two. Batman has died and at one point had his back broke. Superman has died. Both were gone for years. Wonder Woman has...?

    All of those things are weaknesses and weaknesses that have been exploited plenty of times in her comics. Im not being silly and if you don't know about these things chances are you haven't read her comics or not enough of them.

    She rarely wears armor unless the situation calls for it and usually she's still barely wearing anything

    She is weak against magic when the writer wants her to be and she has often fallen prey to magic probably more than Superman has.

    Her lasso has been used against her before

    She has had a supporting cast full of nothing but over powered gods and goddesses for the past few years and even before that she regularly fought other characters along with olympians that were stronger than her while the same can not be said for superman

    The lasso thing being used against her is silly. This isn't the 1940's anymore when that was her gimmick.

    The rest of your response I'm going to just ignore because we've already been through that and will have to agree to disagree, with the exception of your final sentence.

    Diana hasn't gotten killed like that because Diana has not been given the amount of reverence and love Batman and Superman have, so a storyline where she dies and takes up multiple titles and sends waves throughout the DC universe wouldn't even make sense to create

    Exactly. Diana has not nor does she continue to be given the attention she deserves. The times she has been injured or really incapacitated have had no lasting effect. A couple of issues at max. Or to use an example of another poster, Diana being blinded. Oh wait, she's not really blind she can compensate with other senses and skills, she just can't see. I am tired of seeing Diana get the short end of the stick when it comes to being truly important to the scheme of things regarding DC. As a member of the all important Trinity, DC handles her with kid gloves. Let her shine! Make her stories matter! Have the consequences of her actions send waves through the universe! Yet they haven't and won't do that. Instead they give her more power and yet more upgrades. Like say a shield where up till now her bracers were enough. They keep going in the wrong direction. They need to give her solid meaty stories where if she fails millions die. Have her save the day and thousands still die regardless of her best actions. Heck, give her a story where she does save millions, but gets blamed as the bad girl that started it all. Make her decisions matter on an epic scale. Stop giving her little pieces of drama that only affect her tiny corner of the universe. She's one of the big three and where she walks she needs to leave foot steps in the sand. They haven't done that. Not really, not on a large enough scale to matter.

    Here's a little experiment. Ask a friend, someone who knows a little about comics or nothing at all to describe one of Diana's storyarcs. Not a comic fan or collector, just a normal everyday person. I believe the answer will be they won't be able to name one.

    Anything she does, anything done to her seems to be only temporary in nature.

    Oh by the way, @agent41 I agree with you about Batman being a Marysue. Batprep has gotten to ridiculous levels. I stand by what I said earlier though, I think WW is getting close to being a MarySue at this point.

    Avatar image for scorpio_cassadine
    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

    2139

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    :

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    None of those things determine whether she is a mary sue or not. She has a lot of tools in her belt just like any character in her position would and its up to the writer to use them in a way that isn't "mary sue" like just like writers for Batman and Superman.

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    The same writers who gave her everything under the sun? Why would they give the character all this stuff if they didn't intend to use them? Sorry, not that optimistic about their writing ability.

    She is not as invulnerable as superman, weak against magic, constantly fighting people/things as strong or stronger than her, wearing a lasso that can be used against her. I can't really recall too many stories of her being a Mary Sue.

    Not as invulnerable as Superman. That's not a weakness. Heck her armor and weapons make her just as powerful if not more powerful than Superman.

    Weak against magic. ummm no. She has the same resistances to it most other people have. Not a weakness. Superman is specifically weak to it. She isn't.

    Wearing a lasso that can be used against her. Not even going to reply to that, you're being silly.

    So what we really have is she constantly fights people/things as strong or stronger than her. That is not a weakness. That's called being a comic character.

    Tell me, when was the last time she got beat, and I'm not talking about where she came back the very next issue and evened the odds. I'm talking about her getting the heck beat out of her and she ended up out of commission for months If not a year or two. Batman has died and at one point had his back broke. Superman has died. Both were gone for years. Wonder Woman has...?

    All of those things are weaknesses and weaknesses that have been exploited plenty of times in her comics. Im not being silly and if you don't know about these things chances are you haven't read her comics or not enough of them.

    She rarely wears armor unless the situation calls for it and usually she's still barely wearing anything

    She is weak against magic when the writer wants her to be and she has often fallen prey to magic probably more than Superman has.

    Her lasso has been used against her before

    She has had a supporting cast full of nothing but over powered gods and goddesses for the past few years and even before that she regularly fought other characters along with olympians that were stronger than her while the same can not be said for superman

    The lasso thing being used against her is silly. This isn't the 1940's anymore when that was her gimmick.

    The rest of your response I'm going to just ignore because we've already been through that and will have to agree to disagree, with the exception of your final sentence.

    Diana hasn't gotten killed like that because Diana has not been given the amount of reverence and love Batman and Superman have, so a storyline where she dies and takes up multiple titles and sends waves throughout the DC universe wouldn't even make sense to create

    Exactly. Diana has not nor does she continue to be given the attention she deserves. The times she has been injured or really incapacitated have had no lasting effect. A couple of issues at max. Or to use an example of another poster, Diana being blinded. Oh wait, she's not really blind she can compensate with other senses and skills, she just can't see. I am tired of seeing Diana get the short end of the stick when it comes to being truly important to the scheme of things regarding DC. As a member of the all important Trinity, DC handles her with kid gloves. Let her shine! Make her stories matter! Have the consequences of her actions send waves through the universe! Yet they haven't and won't do that. Instead they give her more power and yet more upgrades. Like say a shield where up till now her bracers were enough. They keep going in the wrong direction. They need to give her solid meaty stories where if she fails millions die. Have her save the day and thousands still die regardless of her best actions. Heck, give her a story where she does save millions, but gets blamed as the bad girl that started it all. Make her decisions matter on an epic scale. Stop giving her little pieces of drama that only affect her tiny corner of the universe. She's one of the big three and where she walks she needs to leave foot steps in the sand. They haven't done that. Not really, not on a large enough scale to matter.

    Here's a little experiment. Ask a friend, someone who knows a little about comics or nothing at all to describe one of Diana's storyarcs. Not a comic fan or collector, just a normal everyday person. I believe the answer will be they won't be able to name one.

    Anything she does, anything done to her seems to be only temporary in nature.

    Oh by the way, @agent41 I agree with you about Batman being a Marysue. Batprep has gotten to ridiculous levels. I stand by what I said earlier though, I think WW is getting close to being a MarySue at this point.

    I honestly don't think you know what a Mary Sue is. Therefore I'm going to leave this here for you to read through and I'll go ahead and surprise you with the knowledge that these traits don't describe Wonder Woman.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CommonMarySueTraits

    Avatar image for archizooom
    Archizooom

    2252

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    Yeah the shield sucks. One of WWs high points is blocking bullets and other attacks with her super speed, giving her a shield makes her look more vulnerable.

    Totally. Who thought was a good idea to have Wonder Woman duck behind a shield, an ordinary-looking shield at that. Parrying bullets with her bracelets is obviously more iconic, it's her freaking trademark. It's also more impressive. Beats me

    Avatar image for deactivated-599b4bc7465db
    deactivated-599b4bc7465db

    1759

    Forum Posts

    129

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 10

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    :

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    None of those things determine whether she is a mary sue or not. She has a lot of tools in her belt just like any character in her position would and its up to the writer to use them in a way that isn't "mary sue" like just like writers for Batman and Superman.

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    The same writers who gave her everything under the sun? Why would they give the character all this stuff if they didn't intend to use them? Sorry, not that optimistic about their writing ability.

    She is not as invulnerable as superman, weak against magic, constantly fighting people/things as strong or stronger than her, wearing a lasso that can be used against her. I can't really recall too many stories of her being a Mary Sue.

    Not as invulnerable as Superman. That's not a weakness. Heck her armor and weapons make her just as powerful if not more powerful than Superman.

    Weak against magic. ummm no. She has the same resistances to it most other people have. Not a weakness. Superman is specifically weak to it. She isn't.

    Wearing a lasso that can be used against her. Not even going to reply to that, you're being silly.

    So what we really have is she constantly fights people/things as strong or stronger than her. That is not a weakness. That's called being a comic character.

    Tell me, when was the last time she got beat, and I'm not talking about where she came back the very next issue and evened the odds. I'm talking about her getting the heck beat out of her and she ended up out of commission for months If not a year or two. Batman has died and at one point had his back broke. Superman has died. Both were gone for years. Wonder Woman has...?

    All of those things are weaknesses and weaknesses that have been exploited plenty of times in her comics. Im not being silly and if you don't know about these things chances are you haven't read her comics or not enough of them.

    She rarely wears armor unless the situation calls for it and usually she's still barely wearing anything

    She is weak against magic when the writer wants her to be and she has often fallen prey to magic probably more than Superman has.

    Her lasso has been used against her before

    She has had a supporting cast full of nothing but over powered gods and goddesses for the past few years and even before that she regularly fought other characters along with olympians that were stronger than her while the same can not be said for superman

    The lasso thing being used against her is silly. This isn't the 1940's anymore when that was her gimmick.

    The rest of your response I'm going to just ignore because we've already been through that and will have to agree to disagree, with the exception of your final sentence.

    Diana hasn't gotten killed like that because Diana has not been given the amount of reverence and love Batman and Superman have, so a storyline where she dies and takes up multiple titles and sends waves throughout the DC universe wouldn't even make sense to create

    Exactly. Diana has not nor does she continue to be given the attention she deserves. The times she has been injured or really incapacitated have had no lasting effect. A couple of issues at max. Or to use an example of another poster, Diana being blinded. Oh wait, she's not really blind she can compensate with other senses and skills, she just can't see. I am tired of seeing Diana get the short end of the stick when it comes to being truly important to the scheme of things regarding DC. As a member of the all important Trinity, DC handles her with kid gloves. Let her shine! Make her stories matter! Have the consequences of her actions send waves through the universe! Yet they haven't and won't do that. Instead they give her more power and yet more upgrades. Like say a shield where up till now her bracers were enough. They keep going in the wrong direction. They need to give her solid meaty stories where if she fails millions die. Have her save the day and thousands still die regardless of her best actions. Heck, give her a story where she does save millions, but gets blamed as the bad girl that started it all. Make her decisions matter on an epic scale. Stop giving her little pieces of drama that only affect her tiny corner of the universe. She's one of the big three and where she walks she needs to leave foot steps in the sand. They haven't done that. Not really, not on a large enough scale to matter.

    Here's a little experiment. Ask a friend, someone who knows a little about comics or nothing at all to describe one of Diana's storyarcs. Not a comic fan or collector, just a normal everyday person. I believe the answer will be they won't be able to name one.

    Anything she does, anything done to her seems to be only temporary in nature.

    Oh by the way, @agent41 I agree with you about Batman being a Marysue. Batprep has gotten to ridiculous levels. I stand by what I said earlier though, I think WW is getting close to being a MarySue at this point.

    The lasso was rarely if ever used against her in the golden age so idk what you're talking about and theres nothing to "agree to disagree" about those things have been used as weaknesses and if you actually read her comics which you've obviously left me no reason to believe you do then you'd know those have all been used by villains to challenge or hurt or weaken her character. Those are just the facts

    Id hardly call her being blind something that was temporary it lasted majority of Rucka's run and during Gail Simone's run Diana was hardly a mary sue she starts the run off with a story emphasizing just how human Diana is. New 52 Diana was trapped in some greek family tragedy and constantly was being tested and defeated throughout the run. I dont understand where people get the idea that her character is somehow always free from danger and it sounds like people just want her to be tortured and treated worse than her male counterparts because the only way a woman can be a hero is by enduring as much bs as possible as opposed to actually saving the day. Diana has never been a mary sue and she's constantly having to prove herself so truthfully it wont matter what she does you and others who think similarly probably won't be satisfied with her.

    Avatar image for scorpio_cassadine
    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

    2139

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @ashetdust said:
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    :

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    None of those things determine whether she is a mary sue or not. She has a lot of tools in her belt just like any character in her position would and its up to the writer to use them in a way that isn't "mary sue" like just like writers for Batman and Superman.

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    The same writers who gave her everything under the sun? Why would they give the character all this stuff if they didn't intend to use them? Sorry, not that optimistic about their writing ability.

    She is not as invulnerable as superman, weak against magic, constantly fighting people/things as strong or stronger than her, wearing a lasso that can be used against her. I can't really recall too many stories of her being a Mary Sue.

    Not as invulnerable as Superman. That's not a weakness. Heck her armor and weapons make her just as powerful if not more powerful than Superman.

    Weak against magic. ummm no. She has the same resistances to it most other people have. Not a weakness. Superman is specifically weak to it. She isn't.

    Wearing a lasso that can be used against her. Not even going to reply to that, you're being silly.

    So what we really have is she constantly fights people/things as strong or stronger than her. That is not a weakness. That's called being a comic character.

    Tell me, when was the last time she got beat, and I'm not talking about where she came back the very next issue and evened the odds. I'm talking about her getting the heck beat out of her and she ended up out of commission for months If not a year or two. Batman has died and at one point had his back broke. Superman has died. Both were gone for years. Wonder Woman has...?

    All of those things are weaknesses and weaknesses that have been exploited plenty of times in her comics. Im not being silly and if you don't know about these things chances are you haven't read her comics or not enough of them.

    She rarely wears armor unless the situation calls for it and usually she's still barely wearing anything

    She is weak against magic when the writer wants her to be and she has often fallen prey to magic probably more than Superman has.

    Her lasso has been used against her before

    She has had a supporting cast full of nothing but over powered gods and goddesses for the past few years and even before that she regularly fought other characters along with olympians that were stronger than her while the same can not be said for superman

    The lasso thing being used against her is silly. This isn't the 1940's anymore when that was her gimmick.

    The rest of your response I'm going to just ignore because we've already been through that and will have to agree to disagree, with the exception of your final sentence.

    Diana hasn't gotten killed like that because Diana has not been given the amount of reverence and love Batman and Superman have, so a storyline where she dies and takes up multiple titles and sends waves throughout the DC universe wouldn't even make sense to create

    Exactly. Diana has not nor does she continue to be given the attention she deserves. The times she has been injured or really incapacitated have had no lasting effect. A couple of issues at max. Or to use an example of another poster, Diana being blinded. Oh wait, she's not really blind she can compensate with other senses and skills, she just can't see. I am tired of seeing Diana get the short end of the stick when it comes to being truly important to the scheme of things regarding DC. As a member of the all important Trinity, DC handles her with kid gloves. Let her shine! Make her stories matter! Have the consequences of her actions send waves through the universe! Yet they haven't and won't do that. Instead they give her more power and yet more upgrades. Like say a shield where up till now her bracers were enough. They keep going in the wrong direction. They need to give her solid meaty stories where if she fails millions die. Have her save the day and thousands still die regardless of her best actions. Heck, give her a story where she does save millions, but gets blamed as the bad girl that started it all. Make her decisions matter on an epic scale. Stop giving her little pieces of drama that only affect her tiny corner of the universe. She's one of the big three and where she walks she needs to leave foot steps in the sand. They haven't done that. Not really, not on a large enough scale to matter.

    Here's a little experiment. Ask a friend, someone who knows a little about comics or nothing at all to describe one of Diana's storyarcs. Not a comic fan or collector, just a normal everyday person. I believe the answer will be they won't be able to name one.

    Anything she does, anything done to her seems to be only temporary in nature.

    Oh by the way, @agent41 I agree with you about Batman being a Marysue. Batprep has gotten to ridiculous levels. I stand by what I said earlier though, I think WW is getting close to being a MarySue at this point.

    The lasso was rarely if ever used against her in the golden age so idk what you're talking about and theres nothing to "agree to disagree" about those things have been used as weaknesses and if you actually read her comics which you've obviously left me no reason to believe you do then you'd know those have all been used by villains to challenge or hurt or weaken her character. Those are just the facts

    Id hardly call her being blind something that was temporary it lasted majority of Rucka's run and during Gail Simone's run Diana was hardly a mary sue she starts the run off with a story emphasizing just how human Diana is. New 52 Diana was trapped in some greek family tragedy and constantly was being tested and defeated throughout the run. I dont understand where people get the idea that her character is somehow always free from danger and it sounds like people just want her to be tortured and treated worse than her male counterparts because the only way a woman can be a hero is by enduring as much bs as possible as opposed to actually saving the day. Diana has never been a mary sue and she's constantly having to prove herself so truthfully it wont matter what she does you and others who think similarly probably won't be satisfied with her.

    Of course not. It's the same way he wasn't satisfied with any of the arguments @agent41 put forth. He asked for them specifically, then moved the goal posts and refused to accept them. He's only willing to see what he wants to see, that's why he's not worth having a discussion with.

    Avatar image for outside_85
    Outside_85

    23518

    Forum Posts

    18735

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 39

    User Lists: 1

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    :

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    None of those things determine whether she is a mary sue or not. She has a lot of tools in her belt just like any character in her position would and its up to the writer to use them in a way that isn't "mary sue" like just like writers for Batman and Superman.

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    The same writers who gave her everything under the sun? Why would they give the character all this stuff if they didn't intend to use them? Sorry, not that optimistic about their writing ability.

    She is not as invulnerable as superman, weak against magic, constantly fighting people/things as strong or stronger than her, wearing a lasso that can be used against her. I can't really recall too many stories of her being a Mary Sue.

    Not as invulnerable as Superman. That's not a weakness. Heck her armor and weapons make her just as powerful if not more powerful than Superman.

    Weak against magic. ummm no. She has the same resistances to it most other people have. Not a weakness. Superman is specifically weak to it. She isn't.

    Wearing a lasso that can be used against her. Not even going to reply to that, you're being silly.

    So what we really have is she constantly fights people/things as strong or stronger than her. That is not a weakness. That's called being a comic character.

    Tell me, when was the last time she got beat, and I'm not talking about where she came back the very next issue and evened the odds. I'm talking about her getting the heck beat out of her and she ended up out of commission for months If not a year or two. Batman has died and at one point had his back broke. Superman has died. Both were gone for years. Wonder Woman has...?

    All of those things are weaknesses and weaknesses that have been exploited plenty of times in her comics. Im not being silly and if you don't know about these things chances are you haven't read her comics or not enough of them.

    She rarely wears armor unless the situation calls for it and usually she's still barely wearing anything

    She is weak against magic when the writer wants her to be and she has often fallen prey to magic probably more than Superman has.

    Her lasso has been used against her before

    She has had a supporting cast full of nothing but over powered gods and goddesses for the past few years and even before that she regularly fought other characters along with olympians that were stronger than her while the same can not be said for superman

    The lasso thing being used against her is silly. This isn't the 1940's anymore when that was her gimmick.

    The rest of your response I'm going to just ignore because we've already been through that and will have to agree to disagree, with the exception of your final sentence.

    Diana hasn't gotten killed like that because Diana has not been given the amount of reverence and love Batman and Superman have, so a storyline where she dies and takes up multiple titles and sends waves throughout the DC universe wouldn't even make sense to create

    Exactly. Diana has not nor does she continue to be given the attention she deserves. The times she has been injured or really incapacitated have had no lasting effect. A couple of issues at max. Or to use an example of another poster, Diana being blinded. Oh wait, she's not really blind she can compensate with other senses and skills, she just can't see. I am tired of seeing Diana get the short end of the stick when it comes to being truly important to the scheme of things regarding DC. As a member of the all important Trinity, DC handles her with kid gloves. Let her shine! Make her stories matter! Have the consequences of her actions send waves through the universe! Yet they haven't and won't do that. Instead they give her more power and yet more upgrades. Like say a shield where up till now her bracers were enough. They keep going in the wrong direction. They need to give her solid meaty stories where if she fails millions die. Have her save the day and thousands still die regardless of her best actions. Heck, give her a story where she does save millions, but gets blamed as the bad girl that started it all. Make her decisions matter on an epic scale. Stop giving her little pieces of drama that only affect her tiny corner of the universe. She's one of the big three and where she walks she needs to leave foot steps in the sand. They haven't done that. Not really, not on a large enough scale to matter.

    Here's a little experiment. Ask a friend, someone who knows a little about comics or nothing at all to describe one of Diana's storyarcs. Not a comic fan or collector, just a normal everyday person. I believe the answer will be they won't be able to name one.

    Anything she does, anything done to her seems to be only temporary in nature.

    Oh by the way, @agent41 I agree with you about Batman being a Marysue. Batprep has gotten to ridiculous levels. I stand by what I said earlier though, I think WW is getting close to being a MarySue at this point.

    The lasso was rarely if ever used against her in the golden age so idk what you're talking about and theres nothing to "agree to disagree" about those things have been used as weaknesses and if you actually read her comics which you've obviously left me no reason to believe you do then you'd know those have all been used by villains to challenge or hurt or weaken her character. Those are just the facts

    Id hardly call her being blind something that was temporary it lasted majority of Rucka's run and during Gail Simone's run Diana was hardly a mary sue she starts the run off with a story emphasizing just how human Diana is. New 52 Diana was trapped in some greek family tragedy and constantly was being tested and defeated throughout the run. I dont understand where people get the idea that her character is somehow always free from danger and it sounds like people just want her to be tortured and treated worse than her male counterparts because the only way a woman can be a hero is by enduring as much bs as possible as opposed to actually saving the day. Diana has never been a mary sue and she's constantly having to prove herself so truthfully it wont matter what she does you and others who think similarly probably won't be satisfied with her.

    Of course not. It's the same way he wasn't satisfied with any of the arguments @agent41 put forth. He asked for them specifically, then moved the goal posts and refused to accept them. He's only willing to see what he wants to see, that's why he's not worth having a discussion with.

    This is how you annoy alot of people at once.

    Avatar image for scorpio_cassadine
    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

    2139

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @scorpio_cassadine said:
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    :

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    None of those things determine whether she is a mary sue or not. She has a lot of tools in her belt just like any character in her position would and its up to the writer to use them in a way that isn't "mary sue" like just like writers for Batman and Superman.

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    The same writers who gave her everything under the sun? Why would they give the character all this stuff if they didn't intend to use them? Sorry, not that optimistic about their writing ability.

    She is not as invulnerable as superman, weak against magic, constantly fighting people/things as strong or stronger than her, wearing a lasso that can be used against her. I can't really recall too many stories of her being a Mary Sue.

    Not as invulnerable as Superman. That's not a weakness. Heck her armor and weapons make her just as powerful if not more powerful than Superman.

    Weak against magic. ummm no. She has the same resistances to it most other people have. Not a weakness. Superman is specifically weak to it. She isn't.

    Wearing a lasso that can be used against her. Not even going to reply to that, you're being silly.

    So what we really have is she constantly fights people/things as strong or stronger than her. That is not a weakness. That's called being a comic character.

    Tell me, when was the last time she got beat, and I'm not talking about where she came back the very next issue and evened the odds. I'm talking about her getting the heck beat out of her and she ended up out of commission for months If not a year or two. Batman has died and at one point had his back broke. Superman has died. Both were gone for years. Wonder Woman has...?

    All of those things are weaknesses and weaknesses that have been exploited plenty of times in her comics. Im not being silly and if you don't know about these things chances are you haven't read her comics or not enough of them.

    She rarely wears armor unless the situation calls for it and usually she's still barely wearing anything

    She is weak against magic when the writer wants her to be and she has often fallen prey to magic probably more than Superman has.

    Her lasso has been used against her before

    She has had a supporting cast full of nothing but over powered gods and goddesses for the past few years and even before that she regularly fought other characters along with olympians that were stronger than her while the same can not be said for superman

    The lasso thing being used against her is silly. This isn't the 1940's anymore when that was her gimmick.

    The rest of your response I'm going to just ignore because we've already been through that and will have to agree to disagree, with the exception of your final sentence.

    Diana hasn't gotten killed like that because Diana has not been given the amount of reverence and love Batman and Superman have, so a storyline where she dies and takes up multiple titles and sends waves throughout the DC universe wouldn't even make sense to create

    Exactly. Diana has not nor does she continue to be given the attention she deserves. The times she has been injured or really incapacitated have had no lasting effect. A couple of issues at max. Or to use an example of another poster, Diana being blinded. Oh wait, she's not really blind she can compensate with other senses and skills, she just can't see. I am tired of seeing Diana get the short end of the stick when it comes to being truly important to the scheme of things regarding DC. As a member of the all important Trinity, DC handles her with kid gloves. Let her shine! Make her stories matter! Have the consequences of her actions send waves through the universe! Yet they haven't and won't do that. Instead they give her more power and yet more upgrades. Like say a shield where up till now her bracers were enough. They keep going in the wrong direction. They need to give her solid meaty stories where if she fails millions die. Have her save the day and thousands still die regardless of her best actions. Heck, give her a story where she does save millions, but gets blamed as the bad girl that started it all. Make her decisions matter on an epic scale. Stop giving her little pieces of drama that only affect her tiny corner of the universe. She's one of the big three and where she walks she needs to leave foot steps in the sand. They haven't done that. Not really, not on a large enough scale to matter.

    Here's a little experiment. Ask a friend, someone who knows a little about comics or nothing at all to describe one of Diana's storyarcs. Not a comic fan or collector, just a normal everyday person. I believe the answer will be they won't be able to name one.

    Anything she does, anything done to her seems to be only temporary in nature.

    Oh by the way, @agent41 I agree with you about Batman being a Marysue. Batprep has gotten to ridiculous levels. I stand by what I said earlier though, I think WW is getting close to being a MarySue at this point.

    The lasso was rarely if ever used against her in the golden age so idk what you're talking about and theres nothing to "agree to disagree" about those things have been used as weaknesses and if you actually read her comics which you've obviously left me no reason to believe you do then you'd know those have all been used by villains to challenge or hurt or weaken her character. Those are just the facts

    Id hardly call her being blind something that was temporary it lasted majority of Rucka's run and during Gail Simone's run Diana was hardly a mary sue she starts the run off with a story emphasizing just how human Diana is. New 52 Diana was trapped in some greek family tragedy and constantly was being tested and defeated throughout the run. I dont understand where people get the idea that her character is somehow always free from danger and it sounds like people just want her to be tortured and treated worse than her male counterparts because the only way a woman can be a hero is by enduring as much bs as possible as opposed to actually saving the day. Diana has never been a mary sue and she's constantly having to prove herself so truthfully it wont matter what she does you and others who think similarly probably won't be satisfied with her.

    Of course not. It's the same way he wasn't satisfied with any of the arguments @agent41 put forth. He asked for them specifically, then moved the goal posts and refused to accept them. He's only willing to see what he wants to see, that's why he's not worth having a discussion with.

    This is how you annoy alot of people at once.

    Really? If anyone was offended I apologize. That's how it works now in America, you apologize and all is forgiven the next day. No one wants you to drop out of the race anymore and...wait a minute, what were we talking about again?

    Avatar image for csg_cl
    CSG_CL

    3234

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    :

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    None of those things determine whether she is a mary sue or not. She has a lot of tools in her belt just like any character in her position would and its up to the writer to use them in a way that isn't "mary sue" like just like writers for Batman and Superman.

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    The same writers who gave her everything under the sun? Why would they give the character all this stuff if they didn't intend to use them? Sorry, not that optimistic about their writing ability.

    She is not as invulnerable as superman, weak against magic, constantly fighting people/things as strong or stronger than her, wearing a lasso that can be used against her. I can't really recall too many stories of her being a Mary Sue.

    Not as invulnerable as Superman. That's not a weakness. Heck her armor and weapons make her just as powerful if not more powerful than Superman.

    Weak against magic. ummm no. She has the same resistances to it most other people have. Not a weakness. Superman is specifically weak to it. She isn't.

    Wearing a lasso that can be used against her. Not even going to reply to that, you're being silly.

    So what we really have is she constantly fights people/things as strong or stronger than her. That is not a weakness. That's called being a comic character.

    Tell me, when was the last time she got beat, and I'm not talking about where she came back the very next issue and evened the odds. I'm talking about her getting the heck beat out of her and she ended up out of commission for months If not a year or two. Batman has died and at one point had his back broke. Superman has died. Both were gone for years. Wonder Woman has...?

    All of those things are weaknesses and weaknesses that have been exploited plenty of times in her comics. Im not being silly and if you don't know about these things chances are you haven't read her comics or not enough of them.

    She rarely wears armor unless the situation calls for it and usually she's still barely wearing anything

    She is weak against magic when the writer wants her to be and she has often fallen prey to magic probably more than Superman has.

    Her lasso has been used against her before

    She has had a supporting cast full of nothing but over powered gods and goddesses for the past few years and even before that she regularly fought other characters along with olympians that were stronger than her while the same can not be said for superman

    The lasso thing being used against her is silly. This isn't the 1940's anymore when that was her gimmick.

    The rest of your response I'm going to just ignore because we've already been through that and will have to agree to disagree, with the exception of your final sentence.

    Diana hasn't gotten killed like that because Diana has not been given the amount of reverence and love Batman and Superman have, so a storyline where she dies and takes up multiple titles and sends waves throughout the DC universe wouldn't even make sense to create

    Exactly. Diana has not nor does she continue to be given the attention she deserves. The times she has been injured or really incapacitated have had no lasting effect. A couple of issues at max. Or to use an example of another poster, Diana being blinded. Oh wait, she's not really blind she can compensate with other senses and skills, she just can't see. I am tired of seeing Diana get the short end of the stick when it comes to being truly important to the scheme of things regarding DC. As a member of the all important Trinity, DC handles her with kid gloves. Let her shine! Make her stories matter! Have the consequences of her actions send waves through the universe! Yet they haven't and won't do that. Instead they give her more power and yet more upgrades. Like say a shield where up till now her bracers were enough. They keep going in the wrong direction. They need to give her solid meaty stories where if she fails millions die. Have her save the day and thousands still die regardless of her best actions. Heck, give her a story where she does save millions, but gets blamed as the bad girl that started it all. Make her decisions matter on an epic scale. Stop giving her little pieces of drama that only affect her tiny corner of the universe. She's one of the big three and where she walks she needs to leave foot steps in the sand. They haven't done that. Not really, not on a large enough scale to matter.

    Here's a little experiment. Ask a friend, someone who knows a little about comics or nothing at all to describe one of Diana's storyarcs. Not a comic fan or collector, just a normal everyday person. I believe the answer will be they won't be able to name one.

    Anything she does, anything done to her seems to be only temporary in nature.

    Oh by the way, @agent41 I agree with you about Batman being a Marysue. Batprep has gotten to ridiculous levels. I stand by what I said earlier though, I think WW is getting close to being a MarySue at this point.

    As I've been following this thread (loosely I'll admit) it strikes me that most of the arguments @ashetdust is making are fairly common to most super heroes in some form or another, and certainly true of any of the the Trinity if you choose to look at them from such a perspective. I don't know that I care all that much if WW/SM/BM are all MarySue's because, in some ways they shouldbe. We're talking about people who are, by design, meant to be the very best they can be. Conceptually these characters were created to effectively be perfect or at least infallible and incorruptible and examples to normal people that they to could rise above troubled times and be "super". Certainly standards have shifted over the decades, but the core of any super hero character (even the most flawed) demands that they eventually rise above and come through to save the day.

    Weaknesses, just like power levels, come and go as new writers come in and try to tell new stories or re-tell old ones in new ways. Even the Man of Steel has had various levels of weakness to red suns and kryptonite in all it's forms over the decades. WW once lost her powers when her bracelets were bound by a man and the entire Amazon race at one point would lose their power/immortality if a man set foot on their island. Writers have gone out of their way for decades to showcase that something as mundane as a bullet can injure WW and others have thrown that out. She's been blinded, de-powered, killed, left by the Amazons, forced into no-win decisions such as killing Max and watched her mother and sisters die on any number of occasions. She used to be a medical Dr. and a scientist and athlete of many disciplines rather than simply a warrior woman with a sword and shield. Honestly, even if all her power levels vanished and they told her story, she'd still probably end up being seen as a "MarySue" because she's an iconic comic book character who's entire purpose is to entertain us by "saving the world". I don't see how it would make any of these characters better to strip them of the ability to come up with a way to win against all odds. What benefit does it bring the story to simply put an unstoppable opponent or situation? Sure there's some dramatic appeal to one of our heroes making the "ultimate sacrifice" and dying, but that's not exactly a long-term winning solution, especially if, for instance, Doomsday didn't also die.

    Diana was beaten nearly to death by Genocide during Simone's run, nearly killed by the First Born and only saved after days on New Genesis in a healing chamber, nuked and nearly beaten to death by Zod and Faora requiring time off under the care of the Purple Healing Ray and over in the Injustice universe was nuked and in a coma for months. Further back in her history she was taken apart by Mongul, in a typical for it's time, beat-down of a female out of her league story. In Red Sun she effectively mutilated herself by breaking the lasso which had been used to bind her ... there's dozens of examples of WW being brutally beaten and even dying.

    Avatar image for outside_85
    Outside_85

    23518

    Forum Posts

    18735

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 39

    User Lists: 1

    @outside_85 said:
    @scorpio_cassadine said:
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:
    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    @willienotwilliam said:
    @ashetdust said:

    :

    @scouterv said:

    @scorpio_cassadine: Well, I'd argue Artemis is rocking the battle-axe pretty hard these days, and looks pretty kickbutt with it too.

    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @csg_cl said:
    @outside_85 said:

    I would imagine it primarily about style, she carries a sword, so she also carries a shield... like most ancient warriors would. But there is also a more functional aspect of it, the bracelets might be fine at deflecting bullets, other projectiles and energy beams, but they aren't a very good option in a sword fight because if she blocks an attack, she risks the attackers blade sliding up or down the bracelet and onto her arm or hand (because it wont just bounce off like the bullets does).

    better way to eliminate that problem is to ditch the sword in favor of the lasso again.

    Would only increase the problem, going from some defence to no defence.

    I disagree ... she has no need of a sword or shield if she's got the lasso and bracers. She's mostly invulnerable and has super-speed along with her training she should be practically untouchable anyway.

    Because an untouchable hero isn't going to get boring no?

    It's just about being more efficient, and it matches the warrior motif. And so, if the solution is just to wrap up every enemy that's going to get boring and if every enemy can escape the lasso it's useless.

    Whereas, if she's just using the lasso as one of her tools, that's a better idea entirely because it offers more versatility, which I think should be a strength of Wonder Woman. She's more than just bracelets and a lasso, a sword and a shield--she's a trained fighter. She should be skilled at using any and everything. A shield, sword, lasso, bracelets, bow/arrows, net, spear, crossbow, etc.

    And super strength, super speed, genius level intelligence, invulnerability, flight, being a Goddess and a Princess with magical weapons and armor... yeah. I honestly want to like Wonder Woman, but she's feeling more and more like a Mary Sue all the time at this point.

    None of those things determine whether she is a mary sue or not. She has a lot of tools in her belt just like any character in her position would and its up to the writer to use them in a way that isn't "mary sue" like just like writers for Batman and Superman.

    Okay, name a weakness she has. Something to show she isn't perfect. Something negative to balance out all her advantages. Superman has kryptonite and magic. Batman is human. Diana has what?

    Batman and Superman are at least balanced out to a degree. WW isn't.

    The same writers who gave her everything under the sun? Why would they give the character all this stuff if they didn't intend to use them? Sorry, not that optimistic about their writing ability.

    She is not as invulnerable as superman, weak against magic, constantly fighting people/things as strong or stronger than her, wearing a lasso that can be used against her. I can't really recall too many stories of her being a Mary Sue.

    Not as invulnerable as Superman. That's not a weakness. Heck her armor and weapons make her just as powerful if not more powerful than Superman.

    Weak against magic. ummm no. She has the same resistances to it most other people have. Not a weakness. Superman is specifically weak to it. She isn't.

    Wearing a lasso that can be used against her. Not even going to reply to that, you're being silly.

    So what we really have is she constantly fights people/things as strong or stronger than her. That is not a weakness. That's called being a comic character.

    Tell me, when was the last time she got beat, and I'm not talking about where she came back the very next issue and evened the odds. I'm talking about her getting the heck beat out of her and she ended up out of commission for months If not a year or two. Batman has died and at one point had his back broke. Superman has died. Both were gone for years. Wonder Woman has...?

    All of those things are weaknesses and weaknesses that have been exploited plenty of times in her comics. Im not being silly and if you don't know about these things chances are you haven't read her comics or not enough of them.

    She rarely wears armor unless the situation calls for it and usually she's still barely wearing anything

    She is weak against magic when the writer wants her to be and she has often fallen prey to magic probably more than Superman has.

    Her lasso has been used against her before

    She has had a supporting cast full of nothing but over powered gods and goddesses for the past few years and even before that she regularly fought other characters along with olympians that were stronger than her while the same can not be said for superman

    The lasso thing being used against her is silly. This isn't the 1940's anymore when that was her gimmick.

    The rest of your response I'm going to just ignore because we've already been through that and will have to agree to disagree, with the exception of your final sentence.

    Diana hasn't gotten killed like that because Diana has not been given the amount of reverence and love Batman and Superman have, so a storyline where she dies and takes up multiple titles and sends waves throughout the DC universe wouldn't even make sense to create

    Exactly. Diana has not nor does she continue to be given the attention she deserves. The times she has been injured or really incapacitated have had no lasting effect. A couple of issues at max. Or to use an example of another poster, Diana being blinded. Oh wait, she's not really blind she can compensate with other senses and skills, she just can't see. I am tired of seeing Diana get the short end of the stick when it comes to being truly important to the scheme of things regarding DC. As a member of the all important Trinity, DC handles her with kid gloves. Let her shine! Make her stories matter! Have the consequences of her actions send waves through the universe! Yet they haven't and won't do that. Instead they give her more power and yet more upgrades. Like say a shield where up till now her bracers were enough. They keep going in the wrong direction. They need to give her solid meaty stories where if she fails millions die. Have her save the day and thousands still die regardless of her best actions. Heck, give her a story where she does save millions, but gets blamed as the bad girl that started it all. Make her decisions matter on an epic scale. Stop giving her little pieces of drama that only affect her tiny corner of the universe. She's one of the big three and where she walks she needs to leave foot steps in the sand. They haven't done that. Not really, not on a large enough scale to matter.

    Here's a little experiment. Ask a friend, someone who knows a little about comics or nothing at all to describe one of Diana's storyarcs. Not a comic fan or collector, just a normal everyday person. I believe the answer will be they won't be able to name one.

    Anything she does, anything done to her seems to be only temporary in nature.

    Oh by the way, @agent41 I agree with you about Batman being a Marysue. Batprep has gotten to ridiculous levels. I stand by what I said earlier though, I think WW is getting close to being a MarySue at this point.

    The lasso was rarely if ever used against her in the golden age so idk what you're talking about and theres nothing to "agree to disagree" about those things have been used as weaknesses and if you actually read her comics which you've obviously left me no reason to believe you do then you'd know those have all been used by villains to challenge or hurt or weaken her character. Those are just the facts

    Id hardly call her being blind something that was temporary it lasted majority of Rucka's run and during Gail Simone's run Diana was hardly a mary sue she starts the run off with a story emphasizing just how human Diana is. New 52 Diana was trapped in some greek family tragedy and constantly was being tested and defeated throughout the run. I dont understand where people get the idea that her character is somehow always free from danger and it sounds like people just want her to be tortured and treated worse than her male counterparts because the only way a woman can be a hero is by enduring as much bs as possible as opposed to actually saving the day. Diana has never been a mary sue and she's constantly having to prove herself so truthfully it wont matter what she does you and others who think similarly probably won't be satisfied with her.

    Of course not. It's the same way he wasn't satisfied with any of the arguments @agent41 put forth. He asked for them specifically, then moved the goal posts and refused to accept them. He's only willing to see what he wants to see, that's why he's not worth having a discussion with.

    This is how you annoy alot of people at once.

    Really? If anyone was offended I apologize. That's how it works now in America, you apologize and all is forgiven the next day. No one wants you to drop out of the race anymore and...wait a minute, what were we talking about again?

    That I would like to be exempt from this conversation?

    Avatar image for wrucebayne
    wrucebayne

    568

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    It sure is fun to quote 57 other users in one whole post.

    Avatar image for nickosaurusrex
    NickoSaurusRex

    204

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #48  Edited By NickoSaurusRex

    Her bracelets are physically indestructible. Her shield is not.

    But yeah I agree with you. Shield is lame

    Avatar image for scorpio_cassadine
    SCORPIO_CASSADINE

    2139

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @scorpio_cassadine said:
    @outside_85 said:
    @scorpio_cassadine said:

    Of course not. It's the same way he wasn't satisfied with any of the arguments @agent41 put forth. He asked for them specifically, then moved the goal posts and refused to accept them. He's only willing to see what he wants to see, that's why he's not worth having a discussion with.

    This is how you annoy alot of people at once.

    Really? If anyone was offended I apologize. That's how it works now in America, you apologize and all is forgiven the next day. No one wants you to drop out of the race anymore and...wait a minute, what were we talking about again?

    That I would like to be exempt from this conversation?

    I should run for President of these United States, I'm already Making America Great Again. :)

    Avatar image for deactivated-5af85f4e3dbf7
    deactivated-5af85f4e3dbf7

    617

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    I hate the shield AND the sword. She can gear up for special occassions, but as a part of her regular gear, bracelets and lasso are fine. The shield's more Captain America.

    This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

    Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

    Comment and Save

    Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.