Democrat or Republican?

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#101 Posted by deactivated-57b89658ba257 (862 posts) - - Show Bio

@stupid1 said:

Well whoever created that (with well intention or not) is not very well informed

Women’s Hijab

The purpose of hijab is to cover the awrah and awrah varies in different situations and amongst different groups of people.

Think the bolded part is worth remembering: as in, why is Diana wearing it, who is she around and where is she?

From the image she appears to be in space and not a mosque, so thats one thing. Regarding the list you provided... I think thats a rather strict version you've uncovered since quite alot of muslim women tend to wear quite colorful hijabs and in wealthy places like Dubai, they also tend to wear a fair amount of jewlery. What Diana might be getting wrong however is how loose she appears to keep it. Also it might bear noting that that hijab is only the headwear, not the entire outfit... and Diana's appears to be slipping off.

This is speculation

tend, might & appears - aren't facts, they are your interpretation

I agree, in the western world, you may see more colourful garb, compared to the oppressive full black outfit. However if (I say if as I don't know where the above image is from) Diana is on her way to the middle east, as an ambassador she should know the customs. However, it seems to me, with the fewest assumptions that the creative team were pushing their coexist claptrap, without paying attention to the sensitive matters that pertain to certain practices

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#102 Posted by CSG_CL (3234 posts) - - Show Bio

Neoconservative, so Republican.

Just saw this response ... interesting ... I can see how you would get to neoconservative, but I'd say that she was much more in the tradition of old school Democrats who were basically anti-Soviet liberals and social democrats in the tradition of Truman or Kennedy, many of whom preferred to call themselves 'paleoliberals.' Even still, we can find that the neoconservative movement doesn't really have a distinct party as they exist within both the Republican and Democrat parties (at least their influence is in both parties).

I think WW would reject the actions of the current Neocons as too "war first, questions later" and would certainly not love the mentality of keeping other world powers from emerging by destabilizing foreign powers etc...

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#103 Posted by deactivated-599b4bc7465db (1759 posts) - - Show Bio

@stupid1: not sure where you got those rules from but ive seen many muslim women wearing their hijabs in many ways and im guessing there are no real strict set of rules that people abide by when wearing a hijab on a general basis, maybe in specidic settings or locations. nonetheless whether the writers got it exactly right is pointless, the sentiment is there and if wonder woman had to wear a hijab to respect people's culture then she would

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#104 Posted by deactivated-57b89658ba257 (862 posts) - - Show Bio

@stupid1: not sure where you got those rules from but ive seen many muslim women wearing their hijabs in many ways and im guessing there are no real strict set ofrules that people abide by when wearing a hijab on a general basis, maybe in specidic settings or locations . nonetheless whether the writers got it exactly right is pointless, the sentiment is there and if wonder woman had to wear a hijab to respect people's culture then she would

That's correct - you are guessing

It took virtually no time at all for me to find the rules in written form

If a writer is going to represent a subject, especially one that is divisive, then it should be done with a bit more attention - it is after all what they are paid to do

With regards to western or 2nd generation immigrant muslims, please see the vid below, if you watch to the end, the stage zero explains much about the confusion that is put around these days

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#105 Posted by Mark_Stephen (2616 posts) - - Show Bio

I think she'd look at both political parties and the political bigotry that rules American politics and cry.

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#106 Posted by deactivated-599b4bc7465db (1759 posts) - - Show Bio

@stupid1 said:
@willienotwilliam said:

@stupid1: not sure where you got those rules from but ive seen many muslim women wearing their hijabs in many ways and im guessing there are no real strict set ofrules that people abide by when wearing a hijab on a general basis, maybe in specidic settings or locations . nonetheless whether the writers got it exactly right is pointless, the sentiment is there and if wonder woman had to wear a hijab to respect people's culture then she would

That's correct - you are guessing

It took virtually no time at all for me to find the rules in written form

If a writer is going to represent a subject, especially one that is divisive, then it should be done with a bit more attention - it is after all what they are paid to do

With regards to western or 2nd generation immigrant muslims, please see the vid below, if you watch to the end, the stage zero explains much about the confusion that is put around these days

Loading Video...

im guessing because i dont have in depth knoweldge of the histories and intimate details of islam and islamic countries THAT said i know enough to know that something like religion and culture never comes with hard rules that everyone must follow at all times. these things change wrt time, history, political happenings, etc. they are complicated and not set in stone and the idea that it is a rigid oppressive regime is nothing more than a racist right wing talking point that purposely takes all nuance out of long complex history and meaning out of things that holds tremendous meaning to large swaths of people in order to justify their violent self serving actions. I admitted i am guessing about what is and what isnt appropriate to writer wrt women wearing hijabs and if there is something offensive that i said or in the pic i posted id certainly hear it out but clearly you are not the person to tell me that and im definitely not gonna place the muslim women ive seen and heard from in everyday life below some weirdo online who thinks a video of a racist white man with a clear agenda is something i should even take seriously

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#107 Posted by deactivated-599b4bc7465db (1759 posts) - - Show Bio
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#108 Posted by deactivated-57b89658ba257 (862 posts) - - Show Bio

im guessing because i dont have in depth knoweldge of the histories and intimate details of islam and islamic countries THAT said i know enough to know that something like religion and culture never comes with hard rules that everyone must follow at all times. these things change wrt time, history, political happenings, etc. they are complicated and not set in stone and the idea that it is a rigid oppressive regime is nothing more than a racist right wing talking point that purposely takes all nuance out of long complex history and meaning out of things that holds tremendous meaning to large swaths of people in order to justify their violent self serving actions. I admitted i am guessing about what is and what isnt appropriate to writer wrt women wearing hijabs and if there is something offensive that i said or in the pic i posted id certainly hear it out but clearly you are not the person to tell me that and im definitely not gonna place the muslim women ive seen and heard from in everyday life below some weirdo online who thinks a video of a racist white man with a clear agenda is something i should even take seriously

I am not trying to tell you what to think, that would be extremely rude

What I am trying to say (sometimes tone is out of place in text) is that sometimes things aren't always what they seem or what we are told, you have your experiences and I cannot dispute them, as I do not know them.

Broaching the subject of Islam, as I said can be very divisive

I think I'm guilty of derailing the thread, so if you want send me a pm

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#109 Edited by katanalauncher (3736 posts) - - Show Bio

I think she leans to the right, buy maybe she wouldn't support the republican party.

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#110 Edited by deactivated-599b4bc7465db (1759 posts) - - Show Bio

@stupid1: no need im not interested in going any further. i do want to apologize for being rude, calling you out of your name, and misconstruing your tone but its very clear we arent gonna see eye to eye with each other or can we even reach a ground to respectuflly disagree

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#111 Posted by deactivated-57b89658ba257 (862 posts) - - Show Bio

@stupid1: no need im not interested in going any further. i do want to apologize for being rude and misconstruing your tone but its very clear we arent gonna see eye to eye with each other. have a good day

No need to apologize, we don't need to agree on topics, but discussing them - sometimes even from a different view point to each other, is what is important, even if it seems a little trivial

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#112 Posted by deactivated-57b89658ba257 (862 posts) - - Show Bio

More exploits from the future criminal in chief

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#113 Posted by Jasoninthewoods (380 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Superheroes should be independent from politics...but that's just me.

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#114 Posted by SpitfirePanda (2573 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know how she could support the Democrats if she's for equality. The last KKK member to serve in Congress was a Democrat named Robert Byrd. He died in office in 2009. Bill Clinton was mentored by Senator William Fulbright, a man who spent years opposing equal rights for black people alongside Robert Byrd. Hillary never had a problem with it that I know of. Though, while Democrats have been, and continue to be racist/pseudo-fascists, modern day Republicans are spineless, arrogant cowards who wish they had the power to be as awful as the Democrats.

I don't think she'd like either side. She's more likely to be written as a Democrat, though. It's more trendy.

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#115 Edited by RayRay1127 (134 posts) - - Show Bio

To say that Diana would be a part of either political party makes no sense. The current system as is has become more about money and one party always trying to one up the other and has stopped trying to improve the country or the quality of life of the people they SUPPOSEDLY represent. I think Diana would believe, as I do, that the "everyone for themselves" attitude is detrimental, not just to America, but to the WORLD and that we ALL, humanity in TOTAL, should work toward the betterment and unification of all peoples of the planet. The systems in place now are broken and we as people HAVE to stop this "wait and see if it's better" sentiment. Diana would see how harmful that is and would try to change it.

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#116 Edited by SC (18159 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't imagine Wonder Woman would really identify or affiliate with either 'Democrats' or 'Republicans' exclusively, rather she would be very non-partisan about it all, and hold views, neither party could claim exclusively, in any real meaningful way, whilst also appreciating and advocating certain positive elements within many countries political parties. In one interpretation I can see her disliking politics and wanting to distance herself from them, in another, I can imagine her intelligence and knowledge being so on point and fine tuned, as to potentially have good dealings with many different political figures, factions, as to not really alienate or offend anyone. A figure and personality that seems popular and above it all, and could have multiple political factions eating out of her hand.

However… that would require a pretty skilled and talented writer, or one that doesn't really go into detail about such things. To add further complications, some countries "right" can be another countries "left", and some countries are very small, or there is not much of a political divide, others are large and politics are a minefield. Basically though, humans, many, generally can be prone to emotions and ego, which aren't inherently bad, but can lead to exaggeration, and frustration, which can lead to deception and dishonesty. Unfortunately in some countries political systems, deception and dishonesty can be rewarded and valuable, and if others are practicing it, and they have bad intentions… and they are also in power… maybe with good intentions… deceit and deception can be used for a force for… basically there is a reason why many societies make jokes and mockery of politicians and politics.

If we view Wonder Woman as a figure of truth, then a lot of that should inherently annoy her, then again she is also compassionate and knowledgeable, so she probably sympathizes with how screwed up human politics are, and probably wants to help guide them towards a bette tomorrow, whilst not being too sanctimonious or preachy. Its how I read the character and imagine her to be at least.

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#117 Posted by BlueEcho (1148 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: Good point, but I think that her actions would likely identify her with being very far to the left of the spectrum, especially in the USA. She would probably spend more of her spare time building housing for the poor, and providing free health care supplies, and advocating for women's rights. You are right that all of these activities would not have any affiliation in a lot of places, but in the polarized political system of the USA, it would make her an extremely left wing Democrat, even if as you said that she didn't like the association.

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#118 Posted by CSG_CL (3234 posts) - - Show Bio

@blueecho: I tend to agree with you ... Her actions and beliefs certainly line up with a far left political affiliation. If she was forced to pick an affiliation I can't see her choosing the Republican Party. But then I can't imagine most heroes would be GOP types ... Perhaps Batman?

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#119 Posted by BlueEcho (1148 posts) - - Show Bio

@csg_cl: I don't think Batman would really at all. He diverts so much money from the Wayne Foundation to helping others, it kind of sounds like the opposite of the "Trickle Down" economy that so many on the right seem to favor.

Plus Nolanverse Batman was an even worse example, donating a mansion to children in need. I can't see him lining up for the Reps at all.

The only real conservative hero as is presented is Hawkman. Even Captain America is more of a liberatarian with a left leaning conscious.

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#120 Posted by CSG_CL (3234 posts) - - Show Bio

@blueecho: true, but the Bruce Wayne secret ID might well be a republican and he's certainly got the mentality of an individual who would value conservatism. Hawkman is a good candidate for GOP ... I could see Punisher as another potentially GOP type and probably Jon Stewart and Guy Garnder.

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#121 Posted by BlueEcho (1148 posts) - - Show Bio

@csg_cl: I could see as Bruce Wayne perhaps, but then equally the Bruce Wayne persona is such a dufus that he wouldn't know one from the other

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#122 Edited by CSG_CL (3234 posts) - - Show Bio

@blueecho: PS this raises the question of what is conservatism ... Bruce certainly fits the profile of a man who would like the "good old days of Gotham back" and as BM he certainly favors incarceration to other solutions, very republican to seek a private solution in Arkaham rather than using publicly funded institutions. WW once stood out in this aspect by focusing on rehabilitation at a government facility (rehabilitation island) ... Pretty Left leaning there

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#123 Posted by CSG_CL (3234 posts) - - Show Bio

@blueecho: LOL true story ... But hard to tell for certain.

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#124 Posted by BlueEcho (1148 posts) - - Show Bio

@csg_cl: Again though that is the point as is raised above, that WW's outlook wouldn't necessarily fit that well into the the polarized divide between left and right in American politics. For instance, it might stand to reason that she might be pro-life in terms of her outlook to abortion, just because of the society that she comes from. So right versus left in the American sense might not fit perfectly, but I think with both her and Batman that they have attitudes which are pretty far to the left politically.

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#125 Edited by deactivated-599b4bc7465db (1759 posts) - - Show Bio

@blueecho said:

@csg_cl: Again though that is the point as is raised above, that WW's outlook wouldn't necessarily fit that well into the the polarized divide between left and right in American politics. For instance, it might stand to reason that she might be pro-life in terms of her outlook to abortion, just because of the society that she comes from. So right versus left in the American sense might not fit perfectly, but I think with both her and Batman that they have attitudes which are pretty far to the left politically.

i dont really see Diana being pro life esp since so much of her mythos was based off of Margaret Sanger's ideas of women freeing themselves from male domination which was heavily tied to the birth control/pro abortion movement

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#126 Posted by BlueEcho (1148 posts) - - Show Bio

@willienotwilliam: Well there could be many ways of interpreting it, as her story in the comics differs significantly from her inspirations at times.

Coming from a more traditional society I have a hard time not seeing her as pro-life, but extremely pro-life, like that she would personally adopt parentless children into her society, and provide a safe place for them to be raised. At the same time she probably wouldn't be completely opposed to abortions either. It just highlights how the binary system of politics in the USA is so messed up.

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#127 Posted by SC (18159 posts) - - Show Bio

@blueecho said:

@sc: Good point, but I think that her actions would likely identify her with being very far to the left of the spectrum, especially in the USA. She would probably spend more of her spare time building housing for the poor, and providing free health care supplies, and advocating for women's rights. You are right that all of these activities would not have any affiliation in a lot of places, but in the polarized political system of the USA, it would make her an extremely left wing Democrat, even if as you said that she didn't like the association.

Thank you. I can see what you are saying, and don't really disagree. I live in a really small country thats probably viewed as quite liberal leaning relatively, even though we have had a right leaning Government for a while, and we go by the MMP system, so my country doesn't really have a large left right divide, and on top of that, I am not really that interested in politics myself.

If I ever wrote a fan fiction of Wonder Woman, and the virtues she would express, and encourage, regardless of my intent, many people would probably view her as being on the left. That being said, one of the reasons I aren't really that interested in politics, is because I find it oversimplifies a lot of complex and important issues and often attractions a lot of emotion and ego, which isn't always a bad thing, but sincere understanding of others, can be left behind in peoples zeal to win points, make statements and have their way. Bad behavior is also often justified by pointing the finger elsewhere, add in misunderstandings, semantics, and manipulations. Its great for television shows, games, movies, a bit more of a headache in reality.

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#128 Posted by CSG_CL (3234 posts) - - Show Bio

@blueecho said:

@csg_cl: Again though that is the point as is raised above, that WW's outlook wouldn't necessarily fit that well into the the polarized divide between left and right in American politics. For instance, it might stand to reason that she might be pro-life in terms of her outlook to abortion, just because of the society that she comes from. So right versus left in the American sense might not fit perfectly, but I think with both her and Batman that they have attitudes which are pretty far to the left politically.

i dont really see Diana being pro life esp since so much of her mythos was based off of Margaret Sanger's ideas of women freeing themselves from male domination which was heavily tied to the birth control/pro abortion movement

I can't imagine she would identify with the so-called "Pro-Life" movement, but I do think she would be horrified at the idea of an abortion. With that said I think she would support a woman's right to choose (IIRC the idea came up in vague terms during Azzarello's run), but would certainly advocate for having the baby and finding alternative options for the baby and mother.

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#129 Posted by deactivated-599b4bc7465db (1759 posts) - - Show Bio

@csg_cl:

@blueecho said:

@willienotwilliam: Well there could be many ways of interpreting it, as her story in the comics differs significantly from her inspirations at times.

Coming from a more traditional society I have a hard time not seeing her as pro-life, but extremely pro-life, like that she would personally adopt parentless children into her society, and provide a safe place for them to be raised. At the same time she probably wouldn't be completely opposed to abortions either. It just highlights how the binary system of politics in the USA is so messed up.

i have a hard time seeing her society as traditional unless we are talking new 52 since they took a hard right slant to the gender politics of her world imo so from there maybe she would be more right wing but Diana was created in such a way that she seems undeniably(for most of her history) to exist as completely opposed to the right wing of politics(anti war, pro woman, anti patriarchial, pro gay, etc.). im sure diana would know that most abortions are done before the fetus develops the ability to feel or anything so i doubt itd be a moral dilemna for her maybe a bit uncomfortable reality then again i think that Themyscira is best when it challenges our notions of gender in a progressive way that seeks to show what our society is like without the pressures of women having to have children and women having children in only one way( one beauty of the clay origin). certainly both the democrats and republicans are shady and advocate for horribly violent practices but from my pov democrats are more progressive than republicans even if its marginal and id think that Diana, at least an older more practical Diana, would know that someone has to be president so she'd have whatever opinions she has and advocate for those but she'd want to see the better of the two evils and a party thats unapologetically anti immigration, privitization, anti woman, etc. just doesnt make sense for her to choose. i think Diana is the one character that is so inherently political that if you align her in any way away from that then you make a new character or something disrespectful to her though thats not to say she has to be the most radical or the most aligned with anyone in particular but a non leftist/liberal ww that doesnt grasp the complexities of humanity esp women in "mans world" falls short of what the character ultimately represents. i just think most people in these internet forums or at least many tend to have pretty conservative view points so they have a hard time seeing any hero as not aligning more with them but I just dont see Diana as that. An iron man or a bruce wayne i can see as well meaning republicans but then again i dont think they are too politically oriented so i dont think they are as aligned in a the way ww is.

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#130 Edited by CSG_CL (3234 posts) - - Show Bio

@willienotwilliam said:

@csg_cl:

@blueecho said:

@willienotwilliam: Well there could be many ways of interpreting it, as her story in the comics differs significantly from her inspirations at times.

Coming from a more traditional society I have a hard time not seeing her as pro-life, but extremely pro-life, like that she would personally adopt parentless children into her society, and provide a safe place for them to be raised. At the same time she probably wouldn't be completely opposed to abortions either. It just highlights how the binary system of politics in the USA is so messed up.

i have a hard time seeing her society as traditional unless we are talking new 52 since they took a hard right slant to the gender politics of her world imo so from there maybe she would be more right wing but Diana was created in such a way that she seems undeniably(for most of her history) to exist as completely opposed to the right wing of politics(anti war, pro woman, anti patriarchial, pro gay, etc.). im sure diana would know that most abortions are done before the fetus develops the ability to feel or anything so i doubt itd be a moral dilemna for her maybe a bit uncomfortable reality then again i think that Themyscira is best when it challenges our notions of gender in a progressive way that seeks to show what our society is like without the pressures of women having to have children and women having children in only one way( one beauty of the clay origin). certainly both the democrats and republicans are shady and advocate for horribly violent practices but from my pov democrats are more progressive than republicans even if its marginal and id think that Diana, at least an older more practical Diana, would know that someone has to be president so she'd have whatever opinions she has and advocate for those but she'd want to see the better of the two evils and a party thats unapologetically anti immigration, privitization, anti woman, etc. just doesnt make sense for her to choose. i think Diana is the one character that is so inherently political that if you align her in any way away from that then you make a new character or something disrespectful to her though thats not to say she has to be the most radical or the most aligned with anyone in particular but a non leftist/liberal ww that doesnt grasp the complexities of humanity esp women in "mans world" falls short of what the character ultimately represents. i just think most people in these internet forums or at least many tend to have pretty conservative view points so they have a hard time seeing any hero as not aligning more with them but I just dont see Diana as that. An iron man or a bruce wayne i can see as well meaning republicans but then again i dont think they are too politically oriented so i dont think they are as aligned in a the way ww is.

I love this (bold) statement ... and I think you are spot on with that thought process! However, I do think it's possible for Diana to be a far left individual but still have some personal problems with issues such as abortion. Even more so when we consider the Clay birth story IMO ... it highlights the blessing of life in a very personal way for her and the Amazons, being without children and childbearing, might find such a practice totally anathema culturally given how much joy Diana's childhood brought to the women of Paradise Island.

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#131 Posted by BlueEcho (1148 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: You raise a good point, that questions of morality should transcend political leanings, but they so often do not. Most people vote for things that they do not really believe in just because they feel very strongly about one part of a party's platform. As you say though, this is American's politics. I live in not so small of a country, but I get what you mean, although I tend to follow American politics a bit more closely, though maybe that is because of proximity.

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#132 Posted by BlueEcho (1148 posts) - - Show Bio

@willienotwilliam: I agree with most of that. One thing that is easy to agree on is that while the right wing in the USA is pro life before birth, it is not so much after, as it imposes poverty in various forms on most people (low minimum wage, opposing health care, doing nothing about homelessness). Generally speaking Democrats are much more pro-life when it applies to after birth, and I think that we can all agree that Wonder Woman would be a role model for such causes.

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#133 Posted by CSG_CL (3234 posts) - - Show Bio

@blueecho said:

@willienotwilliam: I agree with most of that. One thing that is easy to agree on is that while the right wing in the USA is pro life before birth, it is not so much after, as it imposes poverty in various forms on most people (low minimum wage, opposing health care, doing nothing about homelessness). Generally speaking Democrats are much more pro-life when it applies to after birth, and I think that we can all agree that Wonder Woman would be a role model for such causes.

No doubt in my mind that Diana would be Pro-Choice ... I think the Pro-Life movement would be repellent to her for exactly the reasons you point out, the utter lack of support system after the decision to not abort. She would whole hardheartedly fight for a support system for women and children in need. I suspect she would find the idea of an abortion uncomfortable and would be much more likely to encourage a woman to have the child, but without a doubt she would find ways to support the woman regardless of her choice.

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#134 Posted by SC (18159 posts) - - Show Bio

Just to throw my own two cents in, I could see Wonder Woman being 'pro choice', the context would be the modern world and she would also of course be extremely critical of abortion, in situations where the abortion seemed forced upon the woman, 'shallow', or 'trivial' by her own standards and understanding.

In a closed environment, where the life and birth of children, would be rare and significantly special, of course, this might change, but not necessarily because of or Wonder Woman's own views, rather many other variables would change. The social, political, economic, emotional, mental pressures and expectations of an isolated group of long lived woman on an island paradise, (fictional ones at that) are going to be very different from those pressures and expectations, in modern day real life countries (and there is enough variation in those things across countries, financial class, etc already). So I would see no major issues with Wonder Woman seeing the differences in context and having ethical views that adjust themselves accordingly, taking into the account different individuals in different societies reasoning, desires, wishes, concerns, contrasted with that society and other societies, taking into account how those societies also treat and view themselves and their individuals.

Personally I am pro education and pro prevention, pro choice too, but I like to emphasis on the latter, because I think they are important in the conversation. Except many of the most accessible, convenient and affordable safe sex/prevention devices aren't one hundred perfect foul proof, also, sometimes people can be caught up in the moment, or lack self restraint. Then there is also rape, coercion, so on. Then there are also some individuals who are uninformed, sheltered or not adequately informed or knowledgable, then there are other aspects, to do with, well lets call them societal/cultural views, ideas and so on, either way, sometimes individuals are put into a position where a choice has to be made. I can imagine Wonder Woman being similar. Pro empowerment and choice, whilst trying to minimize the damage of difficult decisions, and consequences that might arise, much the same way as being pro peace, and trying to minimize the damage of difficult decisions and consequences that arise in areas/conflict that aren't strictly pro peace.

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#135 Edited by CSG_CL (3234 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: honestly this concept is 100% why I believe WW is pro- choice " Pro empowerment " ... At the very most basic elements of WW she can be defined as a character all about "Pro Empowerment" for women.

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#136 Posted by BlueEcho (1148 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: That sums up my ideas much better.

In short I guess you could say that she would be pro-choice in practice but would probably try to encourage others to be pro-life?

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#137 Posted by deactivated-599b4bc7465db (1759 posts) - - Show Bio

@blueecho: shed fight the causes most people want abortions(poverty, rape, etc.) but still be pro choice is what i think youre getting at

@csg_cl i guess i can see that

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#138 Posted by MyNameIsChaos (74 posts) - - Show Bio

If she became an American she would weep knowing the Republican or the Democrat was going to win in November.

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#139 Posted by Rosenovel (70 posts) - - Show Bio
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#140 Edited by JamieWolfe7 (777 posts) - - Show Bio

@rosenovel said:

@jamiewolfe7: DaMN that looks awesome

If you're talking about the picture I posted waaay back, that's an actual series of panels from back in the day ;) Illustrates her politics and why this whole Dem vs Repub discussion is pointless and baseless where WW is concerned. She would be a benevolent dictator, period. Party affiliations would be meaningless.

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#141 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@stupid1 said:

This is speculation

tend, might & appears - aren't facts, they are your interpretation

I agree, in the western world, you may see more colourful garb, compared to the oppressive full black outfit.

However if (I say if as I don't know where the above image is from) Diana is on her way to the middle east, as an ambassador she should know the customs.

However, it seems to me, with the fewest assumptions that the creative team were pushing their coexist claptrap, without paying attention to the sensitive matters that pertain to certain practices

Late, but I would like to know what part of what I wrote was 'speculation'? Because by the power of the internet and wikipedia, it is actually possible to look up names for these kinds of dresses.

2) The black outfits only really appear as law-enforced in the strictest of societies, like that of Saudi-Arabia. Pretty much everywhere else women can wear whatever color they like as long as they keep their hair covered.

Fairly certain it is from Sensation Comics and the scene is onboard a Pakistani owned/crewed space station.

Or perhaps it's just your enforcing your personal view of a topic onto a scene?

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#142 Posted by deactivated-57b89658ba257 (862 posts) - - Show Bio

@stupid1 said:

This is speculation

tend, might & appears - aren't facts, they are your interpretation

I agree, in the western world, you may see more colourful garb, compared to the oppressive full black outfit.

However if (I say if as I don't know where the above image is from) Diana is on her way to the middle east, as an ambassador she should know the customs.

However, it seems to me, with the fewest assumptions that the creative team were pushing their coexist claptrap, without paying attention to the sensitive matters that pertain to certain practices

Late, but I would like to know what part of what I wrote was 'speculation'? Because by the power of the internet and wikipedia, it is actually possible to look up names for these kinds of dresses.

2) The black outfits only really appear as law-enforced in the strictest of societies, like that of Saudi-Arabia. Pretty much everywhere else women can wear whatever color they like as long as they keep their hair covered.

Fairly certain it is from Sensation Comics and the scene is onboard a Pakistani owned/crewed space station.

Or perhaps it's just your enforcing your personal view of a topic onto a scene?

You are correct - you are late

Trying to dispute facts with wikipedia? good luck with that

Also the full black outfit is pretty prominent where ever there are large amounts of muslims - if you check any large British city you would know this to be true

Or perhaps it's just your enforcing your personal view of a topic onto a scene?

Don't try and start an argument, especially when the facts have already been presented

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#143 Edited by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@stupid1 said:

You are correct - you are late

Trying to dispute facts with wikipedia? good luck with that

Also the full black outfit is pretty prominent where ever there are large amounts of muslims - if you check any large British city you would know this to be true

Or perhaps it's just your enforcing your personal view of a topic onto a scene?

Don't try and start an argument, especially when the facts have already been presented

But better that than never.

Except you aren't hitting us with facts. Like please tell us then where the black dress, veil and headscarf is required by law?

So how about in Germany (huge amount of Turks) or France (where it's illegal). Predominent? As in those being the ones you can easily spot? Tell me something, how would you know if a girl was muslim or not if she wasn't wearing the veil?

Again, you don't have facts, you have a personal opinion, one devoid of facts and only supported by your personal observations. And it's not like it's difficult to actually find this kind of info:

Iran
Iran

Turkey
Turkey

Egypt
Egypt
Abu Dhabi
Abu Dhabi

And so on...

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#144 Posted by deactivated-57b89658ba257 (862 posts) - - Show Bio

@stupid1 said:

You are correct - you are late

Trying to dispute facts with wikipedia? good luck with that

Also the full black outfit is pretty prominent where ever there are large amounts of muslims - if you check any large British city you would know this to be true

Or perhaps it's just your enforcing your personal view of a topic onto a scene?

Don't try and start an argument, especially when the facts have already been presented

But better that than never.

Except you aren't hitting us with facts. Like please tell us then where the black dress, veil and headscarf is required by law?

So how about in Germany (huge amount of Turks) or France (where it's illegal). Predominent? As in those being the ones you can easily spot? Tell me something, how would you know if a girl was muslim or not if she wasn't wearing the veil?

Again, you don't have facts, you have a personal opinion, one devoid of facts and only supported by your personal observations. And it's not like it's difficult to actually find this kind of info:

And so on...

Sometimes it better never than late, when you debate like a 7 year old

4 erroneous pictures has really put me in my place

but wait...

Iran
Iran

Turkey
Turkey

Egypt
Egypt
Abu dhabi
Abu dhabi

Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The conditions of hijaab:

Firstly:

(It should cover all the body apart from whatever has been exempted).

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allaah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”

This aayah clearly states that it is obligatory to cover all of a woman’s beauty and adornments and not to display any part of that before non-mahram men (“strangers”) except for whatever appears unintentionally, in which case there will be no sin on them if they hasten to cover it up.

Al-Haafiz ibn Katheer said in his Tafseer:

This means that they should not display any part of their adornment to non-mahrams, apart from that which it is impossible to conceal. Ibn Mas’ood said: such as the cloak and robe, i.e., what the women of the Arabs used to wear, an outer garment which covered whatever the woman was wearing, except for whatever appeared from beneath the outer garment. There is no sin on a woman with regard to this because it is impossible to conceal it.

Secondly

(it should not be an adornment in and of itself).

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… and not to show off their adornment…” [al-Noor 24:31]. The general meaning of this phrase includes the outer garment, because if it is decorated it will attract men’s attention to her. This is supported by the aayah in Soorat al-Ahzaab (interpretation of the meaning):

“And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance” [al-Ahzaab 33:33]. It is also supported by the hadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There are three, do not ask me about them: a man who leaves the jamaa’ah, disobeys his leader and dies disobedient; a female or male slave who runs away then dies; and a woman whose husband is absent and left her with everything she needs, and after he left she made a wanton display of herself. Do not ask about them.”

(Narrated by al-Haakim, 1/119; Ahmad, 6/19; from the hadeeth of Faddaalah bint ‘Ubayd. Its isnaad is saheeh and it is in al-Adab al-Mufrad).

Thirdly:

(It should be thick and not transparent or “see-thru”)

- because it cannot cover properly otherwise. Transparent or see-thru clothing makes a woman more tempting and beautiful. Concerning this the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “During the last days of my ummah there will be women who are clothed but naked, with something on their heads like the humps of camels. Curse them, for they are cursed.” Another hadeeth adds: “They will not enter Paradise or even smell its fragrance, although its fragrance can be detected from such and such a distance.”

(Narrated by Muslim from the report of Abu Hurayrah).

Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr said: what the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) meant was women who wear clothes made of light fabric which describes and does not cover. They are clothed in name but naked in reality.

Transmitted by al-Suyooti in Tanweer al-Hawaalik, 3/103.

Fourthly:

(It should be loose, not tight so that it describes any part of the body).

The purpose of clothing is to prevent fitnah (temptation), and this can only be achieved if clothes are wide and loose. Tight clothes, even if they conceal the colour of the skin, still describe the size and shape of the body or part of it, and create a vivid image in the minds of men. The corruption or invitation to corruption that is inherent in that is quite obvious. So the clothes must be wide. Usaamah ibn Zayd said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) gave me a thick Egyptian garment that was one of the gifts given to him by Duhyat al-Kalbi, and I gave it to my wife to wear. He said, ‘Why do I not see you wearing that Egyptian garment?’ I said, ‘I gave it to my wife to wear.’ He said, ‘Tell her to wear a gown underneath it, for I am afraid that it may describe the size of her bones.’” (Narrated by al-Diyaa’ al-Maqdisi in al-Ahaadeeth al-Mukhtaarah, 1/442, and by Ahmad and al-Bayhaqi, with a hasan isnaad).

Fifthly:

(It should not be perfumed with bakhoor or fragrance)

There are many ahaadeeth which forbid women to wear perfume when they go out of their houses. We will quote here some of those which have saheeh isnaads:

Abu Moosa al-Ash’ari said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Any woman who puts on perfume then passes by people so that they can smell her fragrance, is an adulteress.”

Seventhly:

(It should not resemble the dress of kaafir women).

It is stated in sharee’ah that Muslims, men and women alike, should not resemble or imitate the kuffaar with regard to worship, festivals or clothing that is specific to them. This is an important Islamic principle which nowadays, unfortunately, is neglected by many Muslims, even those who care about religion and calling others to Islam. This is due either to ignorance of their religion, or because they are following their own whims and desires, or because of deviation, combined with modern customs and imitation of kaafir Europe. This was one of the causes of the Muslims’ decline and weakness, which enabled the foreigners to overwhelm and colonize them. “…Verily, Allaah will not change the condition of a people as long as they do not change their state themselves …” [al-Ra’d 13:11 – interpretation of the meaning]. If only they knew.

It should be known that there is a great deal of saheeh evidence for these important rules in the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and that the evidence in the Qur’aan is elaborated upon in the Sunnah, as is always the case.

Eighthly:

(It should not be a garment of fame and vanity).

Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever wears a garment of fame and vanity in this world, Allaah will clothe him in a garment of humiliation on the Day of Resurrection, then He will cause Fire to flame up around him.’”

It's amusing how you keep mentioning what I am posting as opinion, when I have merely given the criteria for dress codes (post 89 and above) & in return you have come back with anecdotal evidence at best, random photos and some finger pointing

Unless you can dispute what I have actually posted, don't waste my time replying with something asinine

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#145 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@stupid1 said:

Sometimes it better never than late, when you debate like a 7 year old

4 erroneous pictures has really put me in my place

but wait...

It's amusing how you keep mentioning what I am posting as opinion, when I have merely given the criteria for dress codes (post 89 and above) & in return you have come back with anecdotal evidence at best, random photos and some finger pointing

Unless you can dispute what I have actually posted, don't waste my time replying with something asinine

So you may want to grow up till you are willing to stop acting like one.

Because 4 other pictures makes me wrong? Newsflash: It doesn't.

And wait... you don't tell me where you got that from, therefore it's utterly useless because I cant see if you took that from Saudi-Arabia, Taleban or ISIS doctrine. FACT remains not every woman of the islamic faith dressed up like a black ghost (the niqab+abaya combo).

And you posting a random cut and paste job from your local newspaper isn't one bit better.

You mean like you dont know what a source is? You want mine? Just google image search [nationality+girl] and your entire argument is thrown out the window. And we can do it again:

Hijab

Islam and Clothing

Now is there any more ridiculous unfounded bs you want to spout?

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#146 Posted by deactivated-57b89658ba257 (862 posts) - - Show Bio

So you may want to grow up till you are willing to stop acting like one.

Can you rephrase this so it is legible

Because 4 other pictures makes me wrong? Newsflash: It doesn't

My point exactly

And wait... you don't tell me where you got that from, therefore it's utterly useless because I cant see if you took that from Saudi-Arabia, Taleban or ISIS doctrine. FACT remains not every woman of the islamic faith dressed up like a black ghost (the niqab+abaya combo).

And you posting a random cut and paste job from your local newspaper isn't one bit better.

You mean like you dont know what a source is? You want mine? Just google image search [nationality+girl] and your entire argument is thrown out the window. And we can do it again:

Try actually looking in the koran or the main haddith's

or failing that; keep using wikipedia - because that's what muslims refer to when they're looking for answers on Islam

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#147 Posted by jphulk26 (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

She officiated a gay wedding. Dumb question. Think about it.

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#148 Posted by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (2129 posts) - - Show Bio

Anybody that watched both conventions knows this is a dumb question #DemsInPhilly #DNC #DealMeIn #ImWithHer #StrongerTogether

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#150 Posted by JamieWolfe7 (777 posts) - - Show Bio

@cruelestashley: And once again, this is why I stepped away from this and maintain that its imbecilic to think Diana would have anything to do with our two parties.

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