For as long as I've been reading comics (the better part of 4 decades), I've always been a DC guy.  But since everything changed after COIE for DC and MSHSW for Marvel, not much has been very good.  It's as if the mid-80s was the death of good comics.  So many companies went out of business, who were putting out books worth reading (e.g. Eclipse, First, Now), during that time.  I'm almost at a point of just quitting reading anything "the big 2" pushes out and stick to (what I feel are) quality companies like Dark Horse and IDW. 
In short, DC and Marvel, on the whole, make me shake my head.

gwen sleeping with osborn and the stupid excuse of why she did it 
-batman peing himself. i mean really? the man goes off and trains his body and mind for over a decade mastering who knows what and some explosion causes some fluid to escape? 
-batman telling dick to steep down from the outsiders team because its headed to a dark direction.under dick the team took down a dictator comimiting genoside and warned the new ruler if things didnt improve he would disappear like the former leader.check mates white king told dick his team was a few degrees shy of being considered a terrorist group .Superman went to talk to dick about what they are doing and how he had to change it. dicks response is a lead box.not only this but dick once infaltraded a mob family and planned on making the daughter head of the family and keep her under his control while eliminating all other mob families kind of like a reed hood deal but then bludheaven got blown up.

" @Tovarish said:

" A few come to mind immediately 

• Quesada vs. Spider-Man (Sins Past, OMD)
• Mary Marvel turning evil (along with DC's continued misuse of the Marvel Family)"

Both :/ And I prefer to not think about them anymore...  Can any good writer go back to those and rebuild them back?! "

Every single Iron Man panel in Civil War was head shake worthy.

moments in comics that make you shake your head hmmmmmmmmm
BATMAN INC
morrison is such a huge bag of dicks

"moments in comics that make you shake your head hmmmmmmmmm BATMAN INC morrison is such a huge bag of dicks "

" @entropy_aegis:  no whey, you high boy"

Secret Invasion was such a Clusterf#@* talk about a great build up to a dissapointment. Still makes me mad to this day that Bendis couldn't come up with a better plot and that Lenil yu was the penciler horibble they should both be forced to write a drawn MoonKnight and Iron Fist for the rest of their carreers.

Well about power girl, Geoff Johns wrote that scene, and god bless him for it, he was trying to justify the hole in her costume because this was around the time that Supergirl had returned to the DCU and Power Girl was questioning her own identity.  Perhaps that was the best explanation he was could come up with.
But I'd have to say Babs, it does sound like you're complaining about Wonder Woman again.  Its not like she sought out Superman to validate herself as a hero.  In the DCU, most heroes look up to Superman, you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
As for moments that make me shake my head, Id have to say that Sins Past and One More Day were really messed up.  Gwen would never cheat on peter, and if she did she wouldnt do it with Norman Osborn.  and One More Day was just...stupid. 

I agree.  Every major plotline for Spider-Man since....Disassembled has been terrible.  Only his involvement in Civil War and MARVEL events has been OK...and then they freaking revert on what they did with him there too.  Nothing tops Brand New Day and their followup/half hearted apology... 
 
Spider-Man is my favorite comic character/hero, but they need better writers for the big man.  

" @entropy_aegis said:

" loeb is regarded as the worst writer of this decade ,same goes for miller ,both of them are overrated hacks who only wrote 2 good stories and then blundered for the remaining part of their careers. "

only two good stories each?  Miller has at least six  and Loeb has more than that "

Been a while since I read that issue is JSA Classafied but wasn't  Power Girls real because she didn't feel like she belonged and it will remain empty until she feel like she does belong?

" @Babs: Do you think WW sudden need to turn to a man for her understanding of how to be a hero is coming from the recent highlighting of the "men" of DC and the uproar that the women got very little? is DC perhaps wanting to take away from Wonder Womans symbol of strength and power as a woman>? Its a big leap for me I know, and probably being a bit harsh, but I can think of no other reason that they would want to water down her skills and personality.   Also, was surprised you did not mention the Shiva vs Huntress fight that seems to be causing a hella uproar, what did you think of it? "

" @.Mistress Redhead. said:

" @Babs: Do you think WW sudden need to turn to a man for her understanding of how to be a hero is coming from the recent highlighting of the "men" of DC and the uproar that the women got very little? is DC perhaps wanting to take away from Wonder Womans symbol of strength and power as a woman>? Its a big leap for me I know, and probably being a bit harsh, but I can think of no other reason that they would want to water down her skills and personality.   Also, was surprised you did not mention the Shiva vs Huntress fight that seems to be causing a hella uproar, what did you think of it? "

I fail to see how this is watering down her "Skills" and "Personality". It takes a strong person to make a change in character. Maybe that's just me though. It's easy to stay the same, change is hard. "

i thought powergirls insignia were her breast?

 
I hate comics :(

"

It's hard to say exactly what makes me the most upset at comics, since I haven't been an avid reader since the early 90's in my teens.  But I think just about any time a character is brought back from the dead, it seriously irritates me.  It's a cheap device used by writers mostly to get a short term boost in sales.  Very rarely is it done with any amount of true foresight or real intelligence (off the top of my head, only the Winter Soldier/Bucky comes to mind).  As a reader, it's also almost insulting.  New characters should be brought in to take the place of the old, to gently usher in new readers as well as provide some sort of closure for long term readers.  Death, even in comic books, should be permanent most of the time. 

"

"Indeed, folk.   As far as Babs general sentiment goes, I don't really look up to comic book characters. I do, however, HATE when female characters are subjugated to male heroes.  "

Every single issue of X-men Forever.

" @Caligula: @Caligula said:

" @.Mistress Redhead. said:

" @Babs: Do you think WW sudden need to turn to a man for her understanding of how to be a hero is coming from the recent highlighting of the "men" of DC and the uproar that the women got very little? is DC perhaps wanting to take away from Wonder Womans symbol of strength and power as a woman>? Its a big leap for me I know, and probably being a bit harsh, but I can think of no other reason that they would want to water down her skills and personality.   Also, was surprised you did not mention the Shiva vs Huntress fight that seems to be causing a hella uproar, what did you think of it? "

I fail to see how this is watering down her "Skills" and "Personality". It takes a strong person to make a change in character. Maybe that's just me though. It's easy to stay the same, change is hard. "

 Just to highlight what I said about how I am simply taking a leap.   I have no issue with her desire to go on a journey of self discovery, that I applaud, I think WW could use it, my thoughts are that is that possibly taking away from her as a strong female symbol by using Superman as a symbol of being a hero, I would have thought the creators/writers of her as a character would have wanted to keep that "woman power" strength going.  On the flip side, perhaps they are trying to show a softer side of WW? or perhaps linking her and Supes?   I have not read the comics that are being mentioned, am simply thinking out loud to Babs, to see what her thoughts are on one of her favorite characters.  "

a message to ALT:WW, JMS:Superman isn't someone to look up to at all. as for the topic moments that make me shake my head well pretty much anything by bendis makes go wtf. 

" @.Mistress Redhead. said:

" @Caligula: @Caligula said:

" @.Mistress Redhead. said:

" @Babs: Do you think WW sudden need to turn to a man for her understanding of how to be a hero is coming from the recent highlighting of the "men" of DC and the uproar that the women got very little? is DC perhaps wanting to take away from Wonder Womans symbol of strength and power as a woman>? Its a big leap for me I know, and probably being a bit harsh, but I can think of no other reason that they would want to water down her skills and personality.   Also, was surprised you did not mention the Shiva vs Huntress fight that seems to be causing a hella uproar, what did you think of it? "

I fail to see how this is watering down her "Skills" and "Personality". It takes a strong person to make a change in character. Maybe that's just me though. It's easy to stay the same, change is hard. "

 Just to highlight what I said about how I am simply taking a leap.   I have no issue with her desire to go on a journey of self discovery, that I applaud, I think WW could use it, my thoughts are that is that possibly taking away from her as a strong female symbol by using Superman as a symbol of being a hero, I would have thought the creators/writers of her as a character would have wanted to keep that "woman power" strength going.  On the flip side, perhaps they are trying to show a softer side of WW? or perhaps linking her and Supes?   I have not read the comics that are being mentioned, am simply thinking out loud to Babs, to see what her thoughts are on one of her favorite characters.  "

Ah, I apologize I thought you meant that looking up to someone else weakens you as an individual. :D "

" @JonesDeini said:

"Indeed, folk.   As far as Babs general sentiment goes, I don't really look up to comic book characters. I do, however, HATE when female characters are subjugated to male heroes.  "

Well said. "

" Been a while since I read that issue is JSA Classafied but wasn't  Power Girls real because she didn't feel like she belonged and it will remain empty until she feel like she does belong?
"

I don't really buy the whole hole reasoning. It's called masking the truth. I think it was just a ploy to show off her collar bone, the most romantic part of the human body.

I do not think it is that big of a deal. The writer seems to have just been too lazy to come up with anything better. It happens.

oh lawd

I guess I don't see it as a "woman needs a man to look up to" issue.  It seems more like a "hey, you're Superman and an inspiration to us all" thing.  I get that he's emotionally lost in-story, but that doesn't mean people (friends, colleagues, etc.) see him as anything less than a beacon of truth and justice.  I don't see WW's statement as a big epiphany, really.  It seems like the same sentiment I've read other heroes say to Superman over the years, male and female.
 
Though the "close the hole where a symbol needs to go" version was indeed melodramatic and a poor/weird justification for the boobhole.

What moments have made me shake my head?  
 
Every single time they've brought Jean freaking Grey back to life. Just let her die and stay dead already!

" What moments have made me shake my head?   Every single time they've brought Jean freaking Grey back to life. Just let her die and stay dead already! "

"

  This messed up Spider-man forever "

" @Rhi said:

" What moments have made me shake my head?   Every single time they've brought Jean freaking Grey back to life. Just let her die and stay dead already! "

 I'm sure a lot of people would vote for character deaths (any of them) and subsequent resurrections to be head-shakers, but it should probably be known and accepted by now that it's just a common trope for superheroes.  As long as a good story is wrung from it, the death (and rebirth) was not in vain. "

On the surface Mephisto unmarrying Peter and MJ seems bad and stupid, but I starting thinking about it, and to me it works better than trying to have them have marital problems and end in getting a divorce.
I am glad the reason they aren't together is some supernatural thing, and not that one of them had an affair or they fell out of love or MJ just couldn't handle being married anymore. 
So we get to keep their marriage in tact.  MJ still loved Peter and he still loved her till the end, and maybe still do but they just don't know it because they don't remember.  It also keeps the chance of them remembering and getting back together.  It didn't destroy their marriage like if Peter had had an affair, or MJ.  That would be something that couldn't be undone, like Hank hitting Janet.  With Mephisto breaking them up its doesn't destroy either character's character or their relationship or anything that came before.
 
So I am fine with them being split up by Mephisto, but I still hope they get back together too.

" I really think that Superman was used because he's the superhero. He's the prototype. It's natural that he's used as a role model, and the fact that he is affects him as well. 
 
I'm not sure I agree with you saying that it's an empowerment-related thing that Wondy and Peeg compare themselves to Superman; he just happens to be a close associate of both of them. I mean, there's a reason Supes/Bats/Wondy were in Trinity together. 
 
I mean, who else would Wonder Woman talk to? The ones you listed (PG, Oracle, and Donna) haven't had that much interaction with her lately; even Donna, who is closely intertwined with Diana's canon, has been off adventuring with the Titans and the new Justice League. There hasn't been that development there, or the interaction that would imply Donna having that moral impact on her life. Even when Donna was Wonder Woman, she told Diana that she didn't feel right in the role. There just wasn't that switch of respect.   I see where you're coming from, but I just don't agree with it. "

" @WDW said:

" @JonesDeini said:

"Indeed, folk.   As far as Babs general sentiment goes, I don't really look up to comic book characters. I do, however, HATE when female characters are subjugated to male heroes.  "

Well said. "

Quoted for truth.  Both Marvel and Dc have tried to get more female pretty much since ever, with little or no success. Probably because 90% of the stories featuring female characters are written from a male point of view and too many important heroines are portrayed as dependent from they male counterparts. "

precisely why I don't even consider myself a comic book fan I am strictly a Wonder Woman fan... I wish I could get into another comic book but I can't

" @Soldier zero said:

" @WDW said:

" @JonesDeini said:

"Indeed, folk.   As far as Babs general sentiment goes, I don't really look up to comic book characters. I do, however, HATE when female characters are subjugated to male heroes.  "

Well said. "

Quoted for truth.  Both Marvel and Dc have tried to get more female pretty much since ever, with little or no success. Probably because 90% of the stories featuring female characters are written from a male point of view and too many important heroines are portrayed as dependent from they male counterparts. "

 

precisely why I don't even consider myself a comic book fan I am strictly a Wonder Woman fan... I wish I could get into another comic book but I can't

"

" @WDW said:

" @Soldier zero said:

" @WDW said:

" @JonesDeini said:

"Indeed, folk.   As far as Babs general sentiment goes, I don't really look up to comic book characters. I do, however, HATE when female characters are subjugated to male heroes.  "

Well said. "

Quoted for truth.  Both Marvel and Dc have tried to get more female pretty much since ever, with little or no success. Probably because 90% of the stories featuring female characters are written from a male point of view and too many important heroines are portrayed as dependent from they male counterparts. "

 

precisely why I don't even consider myself a comic book fan I am strictly a Wonder Woman fan... I wish I could get into another comic book but I can't

"

try:
 Invincible, the female character Atom Eve is pretty strong in there.
Preacher, Tulip is the most empowering female I have seen in comics, she straight up confronts Jesse about trying to take care of her.
Y: the Last Man, Yorick is the only male human on earth, the whole book is full of strong women.
The Extremist, she straight up dominates men.
Buffy, how can anyone argue her strength.
Julie, from the Maxx, is the only sanity Maxx has in his life, it's a strong compassionate female that keeps the male hero from falling apart. she even confronts the Rapist Mister Gone, and calls him on his weaknesses. 
Cassie Hack, defeats murders,rapists,killers, and monsters.   there are tons more out there. you guys/girls just need to look harder. and outside of the big two.  Aztek would back me up on this point. "

Not really into comics just Wonder Woman.... and not  really looking for female centric stories per -se. Wonder Woman kind of found me a long time ago and its quite enough. But thanks anyway.

Oh hey, another Sara rant about Wonder Woman. THAT'S WEIRD.

These writing mistakes really don't do anything to help the characters.