In my opinion, If there is something that DC can do better than any other publisher in the last few years is make a comic book event.

Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, Blackest Night, Brightest Day and Flashpoint. I really think that all of them have been great stories, and miles better than what Marvel have done at the time.

When the New 52 started DC decided to give themselves a break from events to lead people familiarize with the new Rebooted universe, however they had planned an event for the future and that was Trinity War.

What is Trinity War?

Here is the problem.

Im not entirely sure.

so there is this girl named Pandora who has this thing that looks like a gold skull with 3 red eyes, and apparently is a box, if she opens the box something will happen, what? no one knows, we dont know if this is good or bad or whatever.

and there is 3 groups, the Justice League, which only want to do good things in the world, the JLA, which only wants to face the JL in case they go bad, and the Justice League Dark which deals with the supernatural stuff

I would be easy to just say that the Justice League is trying to face Pandora and the JLD wants to help her, but the JLA?

or also that the JLA is facing the JL because they are helping Pandora or perhaps the JL is against the JLA because of the "death" of Catwoman and JLD...

...

ok im just guessing I have no idea what is going on

AND THAT IS NOT ALL

we also have Superman and Wonder Woman having a romance on the JL, which apparently caused Booster Gold to reboot himself.

We have SHAZAM, who has his own story on the pages of JL, which has been pretty good, and apparently they have a lot to do with this entire thing, but we dont know how..

we have the Secret Society of Villains which has been around since the creation of the JL, and uses the same symbol of the gold skull that Pandora is after, but other than that we know nothing of them.

even the solicits dont help

TRINITY WAR, the action-mystery event of the summer, begins with a full-length epic adventure! The death of a hero ignites a violent war among the Justice Leagues! It’s League vs. League vs. League as an impending darkness approaches the DC Universe. But the truth behind it all will lead to an evil that threatens every hero on the planet. And what does the Secret Society of Super-Villains have to with this? Everything.

so the Secret Society has to do with everything but we dont know anything about themIs just some much build up going to who knows what.

and lets not forget that all of this is going to end on the Villains Month of August also known as Forever Evil.

I just really dont see this event as an event of the likes of Flashpoint, Blackest Night or the others.

Even Infinite Crisis had this Huge build up behind it going on and needed 8 issues and 8 months to wrap it all upTrinity War is going to end after 2 months and 6 issues.

The Preparation

Personally to me this is the part that had me more worried about, because to be honest the preparation for this event has been atrocious.

What do I mean by that? well for example JLA already had 4 issues and Simon Baz is nowhere to be seen

it also doesnt help that Baz was not supposed to be in this event at all the original picture, it supposed to have Hal Jordan

and talking about this picture.

Where is Constantine and the JLD here?

were they not part of the original idea either?

the problem is that it seem like the story is trying to chew more than it can swallow, I know is hard to judge the final idea based on this minor problems on production, specially when hasnt been out yet, but this reminds me a lot of The Culling.

The Culling was a crossover event based on Teen Titans, Superboy and Legion Lost, it lasted for 8 issues and it was one of the worst comics ever done in the New 52. The main problem was that the story was completely sidelined by the necesities of all the books on the crossover, it needed to do something with TT, something with Legion and Superboy and also present a new team name The Ravagers, and at the same time tell this Hunger Games ripoff of story which not even Lodbell thought was good. it had too much to do that it did nothing about anything.

and it seems like a similar case will happen here.

We have the main story with Pandora, then we have the Secret Society which apparently has to do with everything, then we have the Justice Leagues beating each other up for WHO THE F*CK KNOWS, and each of this titles beings a little bit of subplots with them which include romance of Super/WW, the induction of Shazam, etc.

Im not saying that the story will fail for this but it is something to consider.

The Pandora Paradox

there is one more thing I wanted to discuss because I think is funny

Where does Pandora comes from?

As the story of Flashpoint goes, when Barry Allen retconned the world of Flashpoint out of existence it gave a chance to Pandora to change the world by mixing it with Wildstorm and Vertigo.

this to i guess get to her gold skull thingy to take revenge against the wizard Shazam and the council...

...hmm

that created her.

...

and Phantom Stranger and the Ques......one moment

If the New Wizard Shazam and this new council didnt existed before the New 52.

not only to mention that The Question was not a supernatural entity and Phantom Stranger didnt had an established orignin before

And Pandora created The New 52, therefore creating the council, which in turn created her...

Then how the hell did any of this happen?

I honestly dont expect an Explanation to this because at the end of all Pandora creating the new 52 is just DC's way of saying "a wizard did it", it doesnt have the logic and creativity that Crisis on Infinite Earths had when it created the Post-Crisis world and since DC shows no intention of looking back at that world then we are left with a kind of unsatisfied conclusion to that world.

I Hope Trinity War be as good as some of the other events created by Geoff Johns, and I was honestly looking forward to it when it was first announced, however it is just a month away and after reading all the titles leading to this event Im not sure what am I looking forward too.

END OF BLOG POST

do not miss my latest article at The Comicbookfrontline The Self-Destruction of the New 52

please check it here: Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 - Part 5

Based on greek mythology, Pandora unleashed evil so I would assume Pandora is trying to bottle up evil again but is opposed by Phantom Stranger, Question and the Secret Society.

I know the greek myth of Pandora.

In the Myth she opens the box and then closes it, when the box was open the evil came out and when she close it it left "Hope" inside of the Box

so the idea of Pandora trying to open the box again is to release something good, at least in the myth.

but your theory doesnt make sense just because... why the hell would Phantom Stranger and the Question help the SS. after all the Question tried to kill PS on his own book why would they work together?

we know so little that is hard to guess what might happen.

I really don't understand what you mean when you say the council created Pandora. They didn't. And they (and she) existed prior to flashpoint.

no, they didnt existed prior to flashpoint, Shazam was the only wizard of the living thunder the other characters didnt existed, he was white with white hair, and the first appearance of Pandora was on Flashpoint 5

post-flashpoint Pandora was just a normal woman who happens to find "the box" she opens it and then the council punish her giving her the powers she now has

what lacks is Pandora's origin before the new 52, without that she has no motivation or purpose, is even weirder that she remembers that she rearranged the world when by doing so it rearranges her own origin.

@arnoldoaad: You are confusing fictional creation and real creation. True, the character of Pandora (with red cloak and weird tattoos) did not exist prior to Flashpoint in other comic books, but within the DC universe she is clearly older than modern civilization itself. There is nothing which suggests the council played any role in the creation of anyone (except maybe "creating" Shazam by transforming the already existing Billy Batson.

Moreover the nature of the magic used by both the council and imbued to the trinity by their sentencing sets them outside the confines of time. As she is told by the wizard, she cannot put back in the box what has been released; she cannot undo her action, nor can they undo their unfair sentence.

I'm talking about within canon: the council and Pandora have officially always existed. The old Shazam and his origins are part of a different timeline, but the council exists outside of that time.

@akbogert: but the problem with that theory is that if Pandora and the council existed outside of time at the moment of the punishment of Pandora.

then what about the Question and Phantom Stranger, most specifically the Question who WAS NOT a magical entity, if they all share the same origin outside of time how do you explain the Question pre-New 52?

This is interesting and considering how long it's taken to get the Trinity War into print, may suggest that Justice League International may have been the original 1/3 of this whole event. After it's cancellation (and subsequent disbandment?) DC & Johns needed to retrofit that missing piece with a new development, hence the Justice League of America.

The lack of popular heavy hitters on the roster of JLA required that Johns helm the title and get Finch to pencil the thing to seal the deal to the consumer, then sweeten the pot with massive variant incentives.

We'll have to wait and see what will come of this :)

@press_oblivion: yeah, that is another thing, is the JLI going to be involve at all on the Trinity War?

@arnoldoaad: I don't know anything about the Question... So unfortunately I can't provide an answer.

@akbogert: but you just did. you just explained why the origin of Pandora and trinity of sin works except that it doesnt work.

Its just circular logic, Pandora created the new 52, which created the council and the council created her and back to the begining

it doesnt add up

@akbogert: Well the Question has changed since the New 52 started and we don't know a lot about him but he did appear in Phantom Stranger while back.

@shadowswordmaster: he changed with the new 52, which Pandora created. therefore Pandora created the event that created the new Question, which means that she created her own origin

@arnoldoaad: Sorry about my other comment but with the Question trying to kill the Phantom Stranger with the spear of destiny, the Question hates the other members of the Trinity or just the Phantom Stranger

So what I am thinking about is each of the Trinity of Sin is leading a League to fight each other for there own purpose ?

@arnoldoaad: If I could have used italics on my phone, I would have. My response was more of a bad joke than anything else.

The New 52 did not create the council. DC Comics -- a real company in the real world -- created the council as part of launching the New 52, so in that way yes they did not exist before Flashpoint, nor did Pandora -- BUT within the comic book multiverse which DC has created, the council has always existed and we only were introduced to them for the first time in 2012. The tribunal which sentenced the Trinity occurred long before anything in the pre-Flashpoint DCU (well, actually maybe there are some ancient stories, but that's not my point). Just as some things were not reset by the merging of the three universes into the New 52 (for example, The Killing Joke still happened), the council which gave the Trinity their unique powers still occurred.

Like I said, I know nothing about The Question so I don't know whether it's possible that the judgment backstory works with his pre-Flashpoint characterization (because you're right, if it happened all along then it should make sense regardless of the timeline; either that or this is a new Question and the old one has been retconned).

But there's not a paradox, and certainly not one with Pandora.

@akbogert: - BUT within the comic book multiverse which DC has created, the council has always existed

but that isnt true

where has it been said that the council always existed?

@arnoldoaad: The events of the FCBD issue -- the tribunal -- occur chronologically prior to the events of Flashpoint. Pandora was sentenced well before she interfered in the timeline. Ergo, the council predates the New 52, and has existed for millenia.

@akbogert: but that moment shows Phantom Stranger and the Question, who wasnt a supernatural entity...

ok we are moving in circles

lets look at like this

Pandora had to exist on the pre-new 52 DC, then she changes the timeline of DC and mixes it with Vertigo and Wildstorm then she creates the new 52 world of DC

the FCBD issues shows her origin in the new timeline.

her origin before that is completely unknown and it CANNOT be the same one on FCBD, simply because of the changes on PS and The Question, and it doesnt matter if you dont know who the question is, you just need to know that he was not magic based.

that is the problem with using her to change the world and then give her a story that has nothing to do with how she changed the world rather how she came to be in this new world

The problem is even bigger if you consider that the box might not have existed pre-new 52 either because in the new timeline we have all this guys who might be derivative of her own origin and didnt existed before.

@arnoldoaad: We are going in circles because you are missing the fact that Pandora and the events surrounding her and the circle are not subject to the distinction between pre and post flashpoint. There is no "origin in the new timeline" vs. "origin before that." She, and the council, have only one origin, and it is what we saw in the FCBD. Nothing has changed for them.

Flashpoint was just an excuse to reboot everything so current stories need not even refer to Flashpoint. I just pretend there was never any Flashpoint so Pandora was punished long ago and she is now trying to fix her old mistake from long ago.

Which is precisely what happened so you aren't pretending anything at all.

I was wondering about the Pandora thing too. It doesn't make any sense, especially when you consider this means she created her very own origin.

@smashbrawler: I'm presuming you just read OP and not the subsequent discussion. Pandora did not create her own origin, and there is no paradox here.

But it changed for the Question and Phantom Stranger and the wizard shazam.
they do have an origin before and after.

even if we use your timeline beginning with the FCBD origin before the new 52 then what did she accomplished by changing the universe?

except at the end of Flashpoint Barry still remember that it happen, and gives Batman the letter from his father, Which appeared again on Justice League

Its like CoIE, just that it made more sense on CoIE

there is a paradox, your explanation doesnt dispel it

After some time, my guess is Flash won't remember Flashpoint and Batman's letter from his father will just evaporate and nobody will remember Flashpoint anymore including Pandora. I don't really see that many stories talking about Flashpoint so I also prefer to just forget about the Flashpoint reboot stunt.

@arnoldoaad: All we know about Pandora's motives for creating the New 52 is what she said in the spread you posted about them needing to be united to deal with a coming threat which required heroes from all three "timelines" (DC's imprints). We do not know what that threat is, but presumably Trinity War will elucidate it and therefore explain why Pandora had to do what she did.

Her endeavors to secure and open Pandora's Box are not directly related to the creation of the new timeline, though they are related to her desire to atone for her past and possibly redeem herself. Like I said earlier (and as was mentioned in a back-up featuring her) the wizard made it clear that condemning her had been a mistake but that, like her opening of the box, it could not be undone. So whatever Pandora's doing, be it with the Box or the timelines or anything else, it is not trying to change her past.

@akbogert: I did read the discussion as a matter of fact... yet it still doesn't make any sense. Pandora's first appearance was before the DCnU was created, and certain key elements of her origin did not exist before The New 52, namely The Council of Eternity. This right here is the problem.

@smashbrawler: Like I said to OP, you are confusing creation/existence within the book and creation/existence within the canon/fiction.

Canonically, the council absolutely did exist before the New 52, because it judged Pandora well before she decided to alter the timelines in the events of Flashpoint.

@colonyofcells: but Flashpoint didnt rebooted the universe, it was Pandora, its 2 completely different things

@akbogert: interesting that you mention the necessity of Wildstorm in the DCU to "deal with a coming threat" when the entire Wildstorm catalog just crash and burned during the new 52, thats not even mentioning that there is not a single Wildstorm character involved on Trinity War.

about Pandora recovering the box, no one knows anything about that for sure.

Canonically the council didnt existed before the new 52 because it didnt exist

you cannot change that retroactively because in essence is 2 completely different timelines

@arnoldoaad: I'd call that an editorial oversight/business intruding on narrative more than anything else. I'm not saying that the whole thing has remained consistent; just that when Flashpoint was written, the argument was that the joining of those three was necessary to deal with some pending crisis, and that Trinity War is ostensibly the manifestation of that crisis. The fact that as a business endeavor the post-flashpoint DCU has been a bit of a disaster doesn't change the original intentions when the story was written, and at this point I think they're just trying to make it work as well as they can.

I quite agree that certain things may not have been the original plan (as you were saying about the entire JLA, for example -- maybe that was originally going to be something more Wildstorm related).

I'm not sure what you mean about no one knowing. The council seems to have been somewhat omniscient and the wizard told her explicitly that it was impossible to put back into the box the evil she had unleashed. He also told her that she was not powerful enough to open it, but that two entities existed that could -- one who would unleash great evil, one who would unleash great good. Theoretically she is trying to find one or both of those people.

@akbogert: I see what you're saying but if they existed before The New 52, when were they introduced into continuity? You could argue they were introduced in Flashpoint (I don't remember if they ever specified anything about Captain Thunder's origins), but why does Pandora say three timelines were separated a long time ago if she didn't exist before the Flashpoint continuity? I guess you could say she is the only being that wasn't affected by this separation, but then why act now and not before?

Ugh, my head hurts, I hate this crappy continuity. I give up, I'll just ignore this even exists just like I did with the 5-year timeline and just enjoy my silly books.

I'm not going to bother arguing over this anymore because it is indeed circular.

FCBD 2012 very clearly takes places prior to the timelines splitting -- ages prior. Which means it's not part of the new timeline because that timeline has only existed for five years. It, and the characters involved, are beyond the confines of any timeline, and as such are just as much part of pre-Flashpoint DCU as post-Flashpoint DCU. They are not within either timeline but are alongside all timelines (because keep in mind, Pandora had awareness of three separate timelines and was joining them. If she or the council were in the old timeline, they could not have known about the other timelines or had power over them). They have one unchanging history.

That's my point. She did. Which is what I keep saying. She and the council exist outside of the timelines (she wasn't supposed to interfere with the progress of time, remember?). The council, the trinity, and to a minor extent Barry, are the only ones who were not temporally affected by the conclusion of Flashpoint. They, again, exist outside of the timelines so nothing changed for them, and for Barry his pre-Flashpoint past disappeared but he remembers the events of the Flashpoint continuity, at least partially.

It is quite possible that the story in FCBD 2012 is incongruous with the older versions of The Question and The Phantom Stranger. In which case I would say it's not a paradox so much as it's just really sloppy writing. But if there is a paradox, it's with them, not with Pandora.

@akbogert: I mean that readers know nothing about Pandora or the box to be sure. or more realistically, to even care.

I feel like DC is treating Pandora as this big breakthrough character and she is just going to fall into obscurity in the next few years when she stops being relevant.

@arnoldoaad: I wouldn't at all be surprised if she's dead by the end of this event. To some extent her only purpose in existence is to try to redeem herself and/or reverse the fate she's been cursed with. Considering she's been immortal for quite some time I think she'd appreciate just getting to die.

Maybe Pandora will make the skull sing a song and the world will become a better place.

no it doesnt

It is not clearly at all because Phantom Stranger was never Judas nor an assh*le who created the Specter, Raven or others and The Question was just a guy with a mask who investigated conspiracies and didnt had magical powers

semantics

the end result is exactly the same

I doubt that considering her new ongoing

now, that would be an awesome ending

I am having a hard time figuring out what Pandora will do with the skull. My best guess is Pandora has a master plan taking place on halloween night to use the skull for trick or treat.

Maybe what I wrote a week or so ago will help folks. Maybe not.

A couple things from that which seem relevant to what's been discussed here:

• In Justice League 6, the Phantom Stranger confronts Pandora about having messed with the timeline ("You rewrote reality"). If his own past had been altered (if he had been moved from one timeline to another) how would he have been aware of this? He must be like Pandora -- outside of the timelines.
• In Justice League 0 (which takes place right after the FCBD issue), the wizard from the tribunal (who also "created" the new Shazam) tells Pandora that she cannot "imprison what has already been unleashed, yet there is still great power contained, and only the strongest of heart or the darkest...can open the box and claim its power...can transform the..." and then he disappears. So Pandora doesn't know who can open the box or what it will do, but it's pretty clear that she wants to know.

As for her death and publications, is it considered an ongoing? I actually thought it was just a mini, but I may be wrong. It's hard to imagine Trinity War ending without her status being permanently changed, though -- even if that change isn't death.

Maybe Batman or Billy Batson will be worthy to use the skull and wish for a happy ending for everyone. Batman could wish for his parents to be alive.

@colonyofcells: I don't think Batman will qualify for strongest of heart. At first blush it sounds like either Shazam or Black Adam, but who knows. At this point I'm thinking Element Woman is the purest thing in DC.

I heard rumors Trinity War won't end well. Maybe at the end of Trinity War, the earth blows up bec Constantine uses the skull as an ash tray.

this is the problem with our conversation

There is no such thing as "Outside the timelines" we cannot define what that is

as for the ongoing, yes it is an ongoing, it is titled Pandora: Trinity of Sin, and PS will be renamed as Phantom Stranger: Trinity of Sin

I dont think she will die simply because she really doesnt have an status quo to begin with to change it from there all is just mystery"

It just makes no sense to build up and build up and build up to just end with her dead.

@arnoldoaad: Considering she's Pandora, it actually would make plenty of sense. Her entire creation could easily have been for the purposes of this event, and since the mythical Pandora was a tragic figure, there's no reason the DC one couldn't be -- her lifelong goal of opening the box again could backfire on her. I'm not saying I expect it, just that it would not surprise me.

As for being outside the timelines, it's not like I made that concept up. That is a pretty common thing in stories involving time manipulation in any medium. Without it there's no way to write any time travel/change story without a major paradox.