Know your limits
Reiryoku
Since you went out of your way to explain what madness is and what it entails I shall do the same for Reiyryoku, as this is the spiritual form of energy that powers (or in Tohka’s case forms her) a spirit. Let’s take a look at when spirit of origin was formed
At the same time, the device designed to draw out the circle-the magical furnace began to start up while growling out a low howl.
From the skies, from the earth, from the air.
The energy that resides in every substance in the world turned into dazzling light, swirling and coiling around the surroundings.
-Spirit Formula.
That was the name Elliot had given to this ritual.
Gathering all of the mana present in the world to a single focal point to create a new life.
By incorporating that power, Elliot and the others, who up until now could only tinker with a tiny amount mana through spells and books, could become all power wizards found in fantasy worlds.
"Ike, with this
"Ah. The Spirit will be born in the wake of a new world enveloping this world."
" Voluntary territory. A universal space that should only exist in humanity's imagination is being changed into reality. If the calculations are correct, the space of the Spirit being born is to the extent of covering the entire earth. The scale is enough to be called another world the neighboring world."
Date a live Vol 17
Reiryoku is basically mana that exists In everything in the world, the air/skies/water, ect. Anything that exists has it, which probably seems quite tame. However, it actually goes a step beyond this as seen in Date a Live Mukuro Route, in this Shidou absorbs the world’s mana and reality as a whole reality no longer exists. It totally vanished into nothing
1-4. By absorbing all of the Reiryoku the world/future Mukuro came from no longer exists, all things ceased to be without the existence of Reiryoku.
5. Mukuro’s original world is gone
6. “Irreparable destruction of everything, the worst end.”
What does this tell us? That Reiryoku doesn’t just exist in all things physical within the world, it is very much a spiritual conceptual form of energy that sustains the very reality of the cosmos. All things fade into nothingness without it, which explains why spirit power surpasses the limits of territories which is literally just reality warping.
1-2. Beyond the comprehension of humanity that only came into existence because of spirits, it literally is “a space of the users desires”.
So Reiryoku only exists in all things in this world, it is something that serves as the foundation for reality itself. Reality won’t exist if reiryoku doesn’t sustain it, which explains why even territories fall short to the power of the spirits and they’re quite literally just reality warpers.
Which highlights a major difference in madness’ conceptual nature and Reiryoku, madness while being a concept is dependent on physical living beings.
Like think about it, could there be a concept of fear without intelligent life to feel such an emotion? If you went out of your way to kill anyone who could feel fear the concept no longer exists, this is not to say that having feats that allow you to directly interact with/alter/destroy fear are any less conceptual but concepts that are dependent upon something are less impressive than something that fuels the very existence of reality and all the concepts that exists in it. This matters as Reiryoku is manifested as a spiritual absolute defense for a spirit
It defends a spirit against all manner of physical or spiritual harm, you need to literally be conceptual to a similar level or a reality warper to actually be able to get through the defenses of a spirit and fight them on even footing.
to the world to the very negative thought of the human subconscious havingno end and quite literally infinite.
I think this is a case of infinite used to describe something as vast, or very big rather than quite literally infinite in scale. By that same token the DaL universe is endless
“The Spirit immediately raised her staff at Shido’s head in response, emitting a ray of light.
“Uoohh…?!”
Although his body reacted, it was too late. Rays of golden chromatic light weaved into a single beam and burst forth through Shido’s head and into the endless universe at light speed.
Date A Live - Volume 14
They draw a comparison to the ocean as it‘s abundant, but that’s inherently finite.
and as the very basis for madness itself,it cannot be erased without removing “Order
This is as a result of order and madness being a matter of perspective, if everyone decided a certain viewpoint is mad then to the general populace it is but for someone who naturally thinks that way that’s “order” to them and madness to think otherwise. Likewise order if taken to the extreme can be madness, as a concept these things aren’t the same but have connections. Not to say you disagreed (though you claimed later they‘re one to one) but I did want to say they’re absolutely not the same thing even if those two things are related.
The Kinshin’s madness started to distortorder itselfas the Death Room, a separate space wouldlose its sense of physics
This isn’t a feat, not sure why this is noteworthy given the scan explains that the room(despite being a separate space) is reflects the order seen in the world and is thus MORE sensitive to this sort of thing. It’s like a mirror that shows the state of the world
Most of all, the Kinshin’s madness both spiritually and mentally drives the madness to cause others to go insane to the brink of themalmost killing themselves
Don’t leave out the fact that it was completely useless against Black star cause he has shitty sensory abilities and only effected him when they kicked in. Literally not having a good “sixth sense“ was an asset here
and the effects at their strongestis on a planetary scaleto induceFear.
….which was confirmed to be over time and would take over those who were weak of mind or already insane before those that are sane succumbed.
But I digress.
Stats
“An existance that could stop Tohka with [The Last SwordHalvanhelev] materialized, doesn't exist in this world.
Excerpt From
Date A Live - Volume 01
Power
I thought we would clear the stats section before the abilities and more direct counters cause it’s a lot more straightforward and I think we can come to an easy consensus that so far Tohka is the superior combatant, at least in this category.
Arthur Boyle had forged Excalibur into a being with a souldue to his delusions and mix with the Adolla, making up the Excalibur we know to be in Soul Eater in his high-stake battle with Dragon, a being that brings nothing but despair, highlighted to be thereason for the acceleration in the world’s death because of his despairandit is because of his defeat that the Cataclysm was at a temporary haltshowcasing that Dragon is the strongest of the White Clad even superior to Faerie who can do things like give mass to mere atoms the ability to evenexceed the earth’swith his heat and a battle between both Arthur and Dragon on planet earthis deemed “too small” to even contain their fight. In Arthur’s final moments with Excalibur, he would perform a feat that not only cut through Dragon but the Earth itself
As I understand it, earth is too small to fight on(this could mean that the planet itself could be destroyed, be it over the course of a battle or in a few attacks isn’t clear). And the big feat for this section is slicing the planet? Cool, allow me to keep this simple tohka can do the same thing.
Not only is Tohka stated to be able to split the Earth with her sword there’s 2 pieces of context that make this so much better for her.
1. Remember what I said about limited astral dress forms for a spirit? This is a state where they’re only at 10% of their normal power, so tohka at 1/10th of her base form can replicate your biggest feat. This is disregarding that Tohka has two forms superior to her standard form being Inverse(Tenka) and Full Form(when she absorbed the power of other spirits).
2. Tohka sealed away her conceptual cutting at this time, so this isn’t a result of hax. She’s blatantly outmatching your best feat when she is not at her best.
Which this is assuming Maka scales at all, something I will get to in a moment.
Speed
reachfaster than light speedswhen accelerating and these are speeds Showas keeping up withbased on Shinra moving at lightspeed resulting in the freezing of timeallowing him to invade Sho’s Severed Universe which also stops timebut getting even faster after deconstructing and reconstructing to materialize back in form from the aftermath of his FTL acceleration, with Sho even commentingon Shinra’s decrease in speed during the fight.
I want to clarify sho by no means would scale to shinra, Sho is stealing heat from the universe to slow it down while Shinra is moving so fast time is effected atomizing him from the speed he moves. Even before shinra was fast enough to do such a thing Shinra was faster than sho when not slowing down the heat of the world
Despite Sho’s ridiculous speed though, it’s something that is reactable from characters that just aren’t Shinra, like a very early on Arthurwho did get taggedbut explicitly is stated to have reacted in timeto Sho’s movementslikely semi-avoiding a cut that could have been deeper, nonetheless, a speed people likeJoker was reacting toand keeping up with. Characters like Arthur who was basically fodder to his EoS version during that time or Joker who isn’t even on the level of the top tiers (Arthur/Dragon, etc) and even being sofodder to his doppelgänger, he’s being called a snailin comparison and during that timethere still existed far stronger doppelgängerssuch as Benimaru’s and we know that result.
The rest of this is worthless inaccurate scaling, Sho absolutely doesn’t scale to Shinra’s FTL speeds at which point this entire scaling chain falls apart. To move FTL in fire force (unless you’re Shinra in his godly form) you break apart atomizing yourself. Sho was slower Shinra even before he could go FTL…. It’s just when he’s slowing down the heat of the universe that he can fight evenly with Shinra. Which means Maka is going to get blitzed, even a 10% Tohka could outpace an attack that moved at LS. The Yamai Sisters could outright statue an attack from Tenka, saving Shidou from it when it was inches away without Tenka even noticing when the Yamai were in their limited astral dress(10% power) forms. Full Form Tohka has the power of the Yamais at their strongest in addition to Miku/Kotori/Yoshino/Tohka herself.
So even if you could prove Maka was baseline FTL(as far as I’m concerned you can’t) it wouldn’t be enough to fight on equal footing.
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