who would win in a fight tim drake or jason todd?
hmm, I'm not just saying this because i'm a big Tim Drake fan but if it came down to those two fighting, without any weapons (guns or bo staff or all their other gadgets) I think Tim could beat Jason. Jason my out weigh him in strengh and the will to kill but Tim is smarter (and in my opinion) more skilled. Don't get me wrong, Jason gots some sick moves but Tim's got better ones =)
I think it could go either way, the same as if any of the three Robins were pitted against each other. Personally I favor Tim Drake just because I feel he could out think Jason strategically in the end to make up for whatever disadvantage he is at combat wise.
"tim because for one ever time they have fought jason had to use technology to beat him two tim is alot smarter and three tim has had better training "
First time they fought Jason didn't use any technology. Tim even threw sand in his eyes, and Jason beat him.
When they fought in BFTC The only real prep used was a bomb that didn't critically injure Tim. Tim later used a crowbar on Jason. Jason still won.
Though in a separate event Tim kicked Jason in the balls and walked away.
If anything Tim fights dirty (crotch shots, poisoning Shiva), but Jason is portrayed as the better matial artiist and more willing to kill.
Jason Todd would win. Not only has he beaten him twice before (once unarmed) he is roughly on par or even better than dick grayson as he beat him twice and Dick Grayson beat him once and he has stood toe to toe with batman for an impressive amount of time.
"Jason Todd would win. Not only has he beaten him twice before (once unarmed) he is roughly on par or even better than dick grayson as he beat him twice and Dick Grayson beat him once and he has stood toe to toe with batman for an impressive amount of time."
He didn't beat grayson twice.
He "stalemated" him once in Outsiders.
Was beaten by Grayson in BFTC.
And in Nightwing solo series Jason whispered to Nightwing to not beat him in front of everyone or he would reveal his secret identity, so Grayson faked a loss.
"@jayskee said:"tim because for one ever time they have fought jason had to use technology to beat him two tim is alot smarter and three tim has had better training "First time they fought Jason didn't use any technology. Tim even threw sand in his eyes, and Jason beat him. When they fought in BFTC The only real prep used was a bomb that didn't critically injure Tim. Tim later used a crowbar on Jason. Jason still won. Though in a separate event Tim kicked Jason in the balls and walked away. If anything Tim fights dirty (crotch shots, poisoning Shiva), but Jason is portrayed as the better matial artiist and more willing to kill. "
If you're talking about what I think you are, this would be when the teen titans confronted Jason on the Death of Duela Dent. A bunch if Titans were gathered around Jason asking him about it. With the likes of Donna and Cassandra Sandsmark there, he had no chance of winning which is why he wouldn't act hostile. This culminated in Tim Drake kicking him in the balls before turning away. This tells us nothing about their fighting skills.
On to topic, I think it could go either way becasue generally Jason Todd would have an edge over Drake because of the use of weaponry he has. The OP said no weapons, in his most recent battle as you have mentioned the bomb didn't critically injure Tim but it threw him off balance enough for Jason to get a few shots in no? Also we must keep in mind that he was using a sharp Batarang and had home field advantage. He used the Batarang to cut Tim at various spots while hiding in the environment. Not to mention the final blow couldn't have been done without a batarang.
Not to mention that Tim should have a superior intelligence and Technology to Jason, even with Jason having the street smarts.
Not saying Tim would win, just bringing new thoughts into the thread.
" @velle37: He beat him in Batman and robin and in the nightwing series story brothers in blood"
He didn't beat him in Brothers in Blood.
In their fights, it was noted that Nightwing was holding back, by one of the crime bosses (it's even more noted in BFTC when Nightwing is continuously telling himself in his mind to calm down, after he broke Jason's nose, and Jason was edging him on telling Dick that he killed Tim).
Then when Dick was having his modeling shoot, Jason told Dick not to beat him, because that would reveal his identity. So Dick faked losing.
In Batman and Robin I remember Jason shooting Dick in the chest after he was distracted by Damien being endangered, but i don't remember Jason beating Dick in martial combat.
When Tim fought Jason in the Titans Tower he was only 16, and was not very skilled, yet he was able to hold his own for a substantial amount of time. As Batmen he was beating Jason but Jason stabbed him with a batarang. Now, Tim has learned to make harsh decisions like Jason, improved his fighting, and it was said because of his Genius IQ, he can quickly spot an enemy's weak spots(like Karate Kid). I doubt Jason could survive a fight with The Council of Spiders, WHILE protecting a helpless girl. It has to go to Tim.
I have to say that although I am a Jason Todd fan. Jason is the better skilled fighter. Tim can't match Jason's fighting skills unless he has the bo staff or some type of weapon equaling the odds. Jason can't win without knowing the fighting area and having something like a concealed weapon to help out. Tim would out think Jason the exact same way that Peter Parker does against Venom. Or the way that Batman always wins over Bane. With that said Jason, with no weapons or gadgets, wouldn't stand a chance. Brains wins over brawn every time. Just ask Bane.
The thing most people don't realize is that Tim Drake is a great martial artist just because he's a geek doesn't mean he isn't the best martial artist. Dick Greyson is better but not by much. They (Tim and Dick) consider themselves equals in combat. Jason Todd is spectacular but he relies on weapons like guns and rockets. He uses bombs and runs away. As for him keeping up with batman. That's extremely explainable he causes Bruce a ridiculous amount of emotional pain whenever they're in the same room let alone when they fight. His death was the most traumatic experience of his career. it affected him as much as his parents death. How would you expect him to perform. Not quite at peak level and since I brought up how much it affected Bruce you can mention that it made Bruce amp up the training that Robin gets from now on to make sure that another Robin never dies. He wants his Robins to be better than each previous one. Tim beats Jason Todd but I think it would be a close and drawn out fight. Even if one gets the upper hand the other will just retreat into the shadows and use all of their training (stealth mode). Just to recap Tim Drake barely makes it out.
Unarmed? jason. No doubt about it.
After rereading robin and red robin, jason has too little training to even be a match. Tim can beat him rather easily. The only reason he lost in the battle for the cowl was a) because he fought under jasons terms and b) it was scripted that way, so that dick would have to fight jason over the mantle, as he would never fight tim. especially over such a thing.
I personally think that Tim would win. Now, don't get me wrong, Jason has kicked the shit out of Tim twice. I did my research. However, seeing how good he's gotten now, especially in his own solo series as Red Robin, I'd have to give Tim the win for one reason and one reason only. He is smarter.
Let me explain. The ass-kicking and teeth-knocking is only half of what it means to be Batman or Robin. That's what Jason never understood, which was why he was never a good Batman or a good Robin. And out of all the Robins, Tim understood that better than anyone. Jason has much more natural talent than Tim does. In fact, all the Robins do. Dick was already a world-class acrobat before Batman's training and after, he's become one of the greatest martial artists in DC. Damian was trained by the League of Assassins all his life and was bred to be the best warrior. With the level he's at when he's still young, he could very well be the best once he's all grown up. And Jason was hardened by the streets, something that was reflected by his fighting style during his time as Robin. Even now, that wild killer instinct is still present and is part of what makes him so unbelievably dangerous. In short, all of them already had the potential to be fighters, whereas Tim didn't have that kind of background. Still, he carved his own path as Robin and was never a lesser version of his predecessors, and was never quite surpassed by Damian. This speaks to how good he really is. He repeatedly uses his intellect to make up for his weaknesses. We see time and time again how smart he is and how much of Bruce is in him because Batman does this, too.
Deathstroke, one of Batman's most dangerous enemies and another one of the greatest martial artists in DC, is enhanced beyond human limits via a supersoldier serum. And Batman has beaten him almost every single time they have ever fought. Deathstroke himself has stated before that if not for Batman's no-killing rule, Deathstroke would have been dead a long time ago. Bane, another one of Batman's strongest enemies, is repeatedly beaten by Batman because Bats fights smarter. In both cases, brains win over brawn. I'd also like to bring up another point from the War Games arc. When Tarantula sees Batman taking on a gang of goons all at once, she sees how he moves almost mechanically, executing each move perfectly, using just the right amount of force necessary, not too much that he inflicts serious injury, not so little that it doesn't hurt. He makes all the right moves, counter, parry, block, dodge, attack, etc., because he fights thinking ten steps ahead of everyone else. He treats fighting like math, like everything his opponent does is a problem to be solved. And he gets the answer right every time.
Tim does this to an even greater degree in the Red Robin solo series against the seven assassins while protecting Tamara Fox. Not only is he fighting some of the most dangerous killers in the world, but he also has to protect an innocent girl in the process. Like I said before, in terms of sheer skill, he is probably the weakest out of all the Robins. He doesn't have the natural instincts of Jason, the trained skill of Damian, or the acrobatic ability of Dick. To put it simply, against these seven dudes (and lady), he is TOTALLY FUCKED. Or so I thought. Then he became my favorite Robin when he took all the skills he had at his disposal, limited as they seemed, and used them to max efficiency, taking the best of everything he'd learned and turning the assassins' superior numbers into HIS advantage, fighting smartly and putting them in each others' way or just keeping them distracted and sowing chaos into their teamwork. While the other Robins have their natural talent to lean on, Tim is just so in tune with his strengths and weaknesses and knows his capabilities so well that even when he is heavily outclassed, he still comes out on top.
With all the experience, growth, and knowledge he has under his belt now, I'd have to give the fight to Tim. As strong as Jason is, and he is REALLY strong, against someone like Tim, that just isn't enough. And that's all Jason's really got. Out of all the Robins, except maybe Damian, he is definitely the most needlessly reckless. He also tends to let his rage do the work for him, something that, when going up against any smart fighter, is a VERY BAD MOVE. And out of all the Robins, including Damian, he is definitely the lowest in terms of intelligence and smarts. Damian was trained to succeed Ra's Al Ghul, meaning he had to be smart as well as strong. Dick arguably got the best of Bruce's training, having taken on the Batman mantle on more than one occasion. And Tim is a genius in every sense of the word. Jason isn't dumb by any means, but he definitely got the short end of the stick when it came to smarts compared to the rest of the Bat-Family. If there is one thing Batman has proved against his enemies, it's that brains win over brawn any day. With that, I'd have to say that Tim takes this fight.
P.S. If any of you disagree, I would love to hear your reasons for why you may choose Jason instead. I am a huge fan of both of them but I try very hard to remain objective in things like this. That said, I may have been biased or I may have missed something. So let me know. :)
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