Who is the best Robin?

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VampireSelektor

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#51  Edited By VampireSelektor

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

Tim Drake and Dick Grayson are the only ones who can really be considered lol. Tim Drake's the best Robin in terms of Batman and Robin as a team, because he was written in the right time for the character to stand out and he definitely earned the name time and again. Because of the tragedy that is Jason Todd, Tim received more training and was kept close to the Bat at first to make sure he'd be 100% ready for anything he'd face out there. Because of the glory that is Dick Grayson, Tim wasn't held too close for long and was eventually given his own breathing room after he'd proven himself. This allowed him the chance to go on more of his own adventures than the previous Robin's did. Tim is the Robin he is because of how Bruce handled his first two sons. He learned from the mistakes he made with both and was careful to treat Tim with all the respect he deserved.

Dick Grayson's the best Robin in terms of being a hero, you only have to read the New Teen Titans era to understand that. Back when Dick was being written as Robin alongside Bruce he wasn't given much personality and didn't have many solo adventures. It wasn't until the New Teen Titans where he really started to shine on his own. That's why he isn't the best Robin in terms of Robin being in Gotham with Batman. His best days were never in Gotham. They were out of Gotham with the Teen Titans. Which is one of the reasons he's the best hero for the world out of the Robin's. He's had a bigger impact on the superhero community than Tim or the others by being a founding member of the Teen Titans, and pretty much the overall leader (Like in Young Justice) Not only did he do good work with the Titans, but he formed a legendary team that would set the standard for years to come, and made it so that the concept would be emulated by future young heroes. Giving them a place to meet, train, and work alongside others their own age, with similar problems.

Dick Grayson simply wasn't Robin during the right era. Re-create him in the comic world of today and it'd be a different story, but as things stand Tim takes the title of best Robin, with Dick a close second.

Just to clarify, are you saying that Tim is the best Robin to work alongside Batman due to circumstance?

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Nathaniel_Christopher

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@VampireSelektor said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

Tim Drake and Dick Grayson are the only ones who can really be considered lol. Tim Drake's the best Robin in terms of Batman and Robin as a team, because he was written in the right time for the character to stand out and he definitely earned the name time and again. Because of the tragedy that is Jason Todd, Tim received more training and was kept close to the Bat at first to make sure he'd be 100% ready for anything he'd face out there. Because of the glory that is Dick Grayson, Tim wasn't held too close for long and was eventually given his own breathing room after he'd proven himself. This allowed him the chance to go on more of his own adventures than the previous Robin's did. Tim is the Robin he is because of how Bruce handled his first two sons. He learned from the mistakes he made with both and was careful to treat Tim with all the respect he deserved.

Dick Grayson's the best Robin in terms of being a hero, you only have to read the New Teen Titans era to understand that. Back when Dick was being written as Robin alongside Bruce he wasn't given much personality and didn't have many solo adventures. It wasn't until the New Teen Titans where he really started to shine on his own. That's why he isn't the best Robin in terms of Robin being in Gotham with Batman. His best days were never in Gotham. They were out of Gotham with the Teen Titans. Which is one of the reasons he's the best hero for the world out of the Robin's. He's had a bigger impact on the superhero community than Tim or the others by being a founding member of the Teen Titans, and pretty much the overall leader (Like in Young Justice) Not only did he do good work with the Titans, but he formed a legendary team that would set the standard for years to come, and made it so that the concept would be emulated by future young heroes. Giving them a place to meet, train, and work alongside others their own age, with similar problems.

Dick Grayson simply wasn't Robin during the right era. Re-create him in the comic world of today and it'd be a different story, but as things stand Tim takes the title of best Robin, with Dick a close second.

Just to clarify, are you saying that Tim is the best Robin to work alongside Batman due to circumstance?

To work alongside Batman? No. He's the best Robin to work alongside Batman because of who he is as a character. I believe Batman once pointed out the differences between Tim, Dick, and Jason, and how they each handled the role. The circumstances that were there when Tim took the role, and the background his character were given all came together to make him the best Robin to work with Batman. Its more than just the route the character took, its his personality. Replace Tim and Jason Todd in Bruce's history and it wouldn't have worked. Tim's character is essential. I was speaking more of the difference between Dick and Tim in terms of being heroes, with Dick being more suited to the outside world (The center stage) and Tim more suited to Gotham.

When Dick Grayson was in Gotham he simply wasn't that interesting as a character. This is partially because of the time period he was being written (And perhaps the 2nd can be blamed on this), and partially because when working alongside Bruce, Dick's character wasn't allowed to grow. In terms of how the characters developed, that is where I would say Tim was the luckiest of the 3. He was created in the right time for Robin to be more of a solo act. So there are a number of reasons he's the best partner for Bruce, and circumstances do play a part in that I think, but not to the point that they're the main reasons.

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VampireSelektor

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#53  Edited By VampireSelektor

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

Tim Drake and Dick Grayson are the only ones who can really be considered lol. Tim Drake's the best Robin in terms of Batman and Robin as a team, because he was written in the right time for the character to stand out and he definitely earned the name time and again. Because of the tragedy that is Jason Todd, Tim received more training and was kept close to the Bat at first to make sure he'd be 100% ready for anything he'd face out there. Because of the glory that is Dick Grayson, Tim wasn't held too close for long and was eventually given his own breathing room after he'd proven himself. This allowed him the chance to go on more of his own adventures than the previous Robin's did. Tim is the Robin he is because of how Bruce handled his first two sons. He learned from the mistakes he made with both and was careful to treat Tim with all the respect he deserved.

Dick Grayson's the best Robin in terms of being a hero, you only have to read the New Teen Titans era to understand that. Back when Dick was being written as Robin alongside Bruce he wasn't given much personality and didn't have many solo adventures. It wasn't until the New Teen Titans where he really started to shine on his own. That's why he isn't the best Robin in terms of Robin being in Gotham with Batman. His best days were never in Gotham. They were out of Gotham with the Teen Titans. Which is one of the reasons he's the best hero for the world out of the Robin's. He's had a bigger impact on the superhero community than Tim or the others by being a founding member of the Teen Titans, and pretty much the overall leader (Like in Young Justice) Not only did he do good work with the Titans, but he formed a legendary team that would set the standard for years to come, and made it so that the concept would be emulated by future young heroes. Giving them a place to meet, train, and work alongside others their own age, with similar problems.

Dick Grayson simply wasn't Robin during the right era. Re-create him in the comic world of today and it'd be a different story, but as things stand Tim takes the title of best Robin, with Dick a close second.

Just to clarify, are you saying that Tim is the best Robin to work alongside Batman due to circumstance?

To work alongside Batman? No. He's the best Robin to work alongside Batman because of who he is as a character. I believe Batman once pointed out the differences between Tim, Dick, and Jason, and how they each handled the role. The circumstances that were there when Tim took the role, and the background his character were given all came together to make him the best Robin to work with Batman. Its more than just the route the character took, its his personality. Replace Tim and Jason Todd in Bruce's history and it wouldn't have worked. Tim's character is essential. I was speaking more of the difference between Dick and Tim in terms of being heroes, with Dick being more suited to the outside world (The center stage) and Tim more suited to Gotham.

When Dick Grayson was in Gotham he simply wasn't that interesting as a character. This is partially because of the time period he was being written (And perhaps the 2nd can be blamed on this), and partially because when working alongside Bruce, Dick's character wasn't allowed to grow. In terms of how the characters developed, that is where I would say Tim was the luckiest of the 3. He was created in the right time for Robin to be more of a solo act. So there are a number of reasons he's the best partner for Bruce, and circumstances do play a part in that I think, but not to the point that they're the main reasons.

That is an interesting observation, considering how the characters are in opposite situations (Dick in Gotham; Tim leading the Teen Titans). Having "Nightwing" set in Gotham might be the most important development for Dick since taking on Damian as a pupil. When "Nightwing" #1 was announced, half the users on this site thought Dick would never grow from under Bruce's shadow. 13 issues later, and people are gushing over the series, not just the character. And yes, there is a difference.

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Nathaniel_Christopher

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@VampireSelektor said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

Tim Drake and Dick Grayson are the only ones who can really be considered lol. Tim Drake's the best Robin in terms of Batman and Robin as a team, because he was written in the right time for the character to stand out and he definitely earned the name time and again. Because of the tragedy that is Jason Todd, Tim received more training and was kept close to the Bat at first to make sure he'd be 100% ready for anything he'd face out there. Because of the glory that is Dick Grayson, Tim wasn't held too close for long and was eventually given his own breathing room after he'd proven himself. This allowed him the chance to go on more of his own adventures than the previous Robin's did. Tim is the Robin he is because of how Bruce handled his first two sons. He learned from the mistakes he made with both and was careful to treat Tim with all the respect he deserved.

Dick Grayson's the best Robin in terms of being a hero, you only have to read the New Teen Titans era to understand that. Back when Dick was being written as Robin alongside Bruce he wasn't given much personality and didn't have many solo adventures. It wasn't until the New Teen Titans where he really started to shine on his own. That's why he isn't the best Robin in terms of Robin being in Gotham with Batman. His best days were never in Gotham. They were out of Gotham with the Teen Titans. Which is one of the reasons he's the best hero for the world out of the Robin's. He's had a bigger impact on the superhero community than Tim or the others by being a founding member of the Teen Titans, and pretty much the overall leader (Like in Young Justice) Not only did he do good work with the Titans, but he formed a legendary team that would set the standard for years to come, and made it so that the concept would be emulated by future young heroes. Giving them a place to meet, train, and work alongside others their own age, with similar problems.

Dick Grayson simply wasn't Robin during the right era. Re-create him in the comic world of today and it'd be a different story, but as things stand Tim takes the title of best Robin, with Dick a close second.

Just to clarify, are you saying that Tim is the best Robin to work alongside Batman due to circumstance?

To work alongside Batman? No. He's the best Robin to work alongside Batman because of who he is as a character. I believe Batman once pointed out the differences between Tim, Dick, and Jason, and how they each handled the role. The circumstances that were there when Tim took the role, and the background his character were given all came together to make him the best Robin to work with Batman. Its more than just the route the character took, its his personality. Replace Tim and Jason Todd in Bruce's history and it wouldn't have worked. Tim's character is essential. I was speaking more of the difference between Dick and Tim in terms of being heroes, with Dick being more suited to the outside world (The center stage) and Tim more suited to Gotham.

When Dick Grayson was in Gotham he simply wasn't that interesting as a character. This is partially because of the time period he was being written (And perhaps the 2nd can be blamed on this), and partially because when working alongside Bruce, Dick's character wasn't allowed to grow. In terms of how the characters developed, that is where I would say Tim was the luckiest of the 3. He was created in the right time for Robin to be more of a solo act. So there are a number of reasons he's the best partner for Bruce, and circumstances do play a part in that I think, but not to the point that they're the main reasons.

That is an interesting observation, considering how the characters are in opposite situations (Dick in Gotham; Tim leading the Teen Titans). Having "Nightwing" set in Gotham might be the most important development for Dick since taking on Damian as a pupil. When "Nightwing" #1 was announced, half the users on this site thought Dick would never grow from under Bruce's shadow. 13 issues later, and people are gushing over the series, not just the character. And yes, there is a difference.

Exactly, its part of the big changes they're making and not one I approve of. I don't mind Dick in Gotham, but if it comes at the expense of his past history with various other teams and heroes outside of Gotham i'd gladly switch the two characters positions. DC basically added to the character and took away from him at the same time. And its not an even trade by any means. Dick's spent the majority of his career outside of Gotham, and now that's all been erased, and really it just seems that they're doing it to make Tim special. (Like with the whole he was never Robin thing) I think Dick coming back to Gotham is a logical step for him, his journey finally coming full circle, but its come at too high of a cost.

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VampireSelektor

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#55  Edited By VampireSelektor

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

Tim Drake and Dick Grayson are the only ones who can really be considered lol. Tim Drake's the best Robin in terms of Batman and Robin as a team, because he was written in the right time for the character to stand out and he definitely earned the name time and again. Because of the tragedy that is Jason Todd, Tim received more training and was kept close to the Bat at first to make sure he'd be 100% ready for anything he'd face out there. Because of the glory that is Dick Grayson, Tim wasn't held too close for long and was eventually given his own breathing room after he'd proven himself. This allowed him the chance to go on more of his own adventures than the previous Robin's did. Tim is the Robin he is because of how Bruce handled his first two sons. He learned from the mistakes he made with both and was careful to treat Tim with all the respect he deserved.

Dick Grayson's the best Robin in terms of being a hero, you only have to read the New Teen Titans era to understand that. Back when Dick was being written as Robin alongside Bruce he wasn't given much personality and didn't have many solo adventures. It wasn't until the New Teen Titans where he really started to shine on his own. That's why he isn't the best Robin in terms of Robin being in Gotham with Batman. His best days were never in Gotham. They were out of Gotham with the Teen Titans. Which is one of the reasons he's the best hero for the world out of the Robin's. He's had a bigger impact on the superhero community than Tim or the others by being a founding member of the Teen Titans, and pretty much the overall leader (Like in Young Justice) Not only did he do good work with the Titans, but he formed a legendary team that would set the standard for years to come, and made it so that the concept would be emulated by future young heroes. Giving them a place to meet, train, and work alongside others their own age, with similar problems.

Dick Grayson simply wasn't Robin during the right era. Re-create him in the comic world of today and it'd be a different story, but as things stand Tim takes the title of best Robin, with Dick a close second.

Just to clarify, are you saying that Tim is the best Robin to work alongside Batman due to circumstance?

To work alongside Batman? No. He's the best Robin to work alongside Batman because of who he is as a character. I believe Batman once pointed out the differences between Tim, Dick, and Jason, and how they each handled the role. The circumstances that were there when Tim took the role, and the background his character were given all came together to make him the best Robin to work with Batman. Its more than just the route the character took, its his personality. Replace Tim and Jason Todd in Bruce's history and it wouldn't have worked. Tim's character is essential. I was speaking more of the difference between Dick and Tim in terms of being heroes, with Dick being more suited to the outside world (The center stage) and Tim more suited to Gotham.

When Dick Grayson was in Gotham he simply wasn't that interesting as a character. This is partially because of the time period he was being written (And perhaps the 2nd can be blamed on this), and partially because when working alongside Bruce, Dick's character wasn't allowed to grow. In terms of how the characters developed, that is where I would say Tim was the luckiest of the 3. He was created in the right time for Robin to be more of a solo act. So there are a number of reasons he's the best partner for Bruce, and circumstances do play a part in that I think, but not to the point that they're the main reasons.

That is an interesting observation, considering how the characters are in opposite situations (Dick in Gotham; Tim leading the Teen Titans). Having "Nightwing" set in Gotham might be the most important development for Dick since taking on Damian as a pupil. When "Nightwing" #1 was announced, half the users on this site thought Dick would never grow from under Bruce's shadow. 13 issues later, and people are gushing over the series, not just the character. And yes, there is a difference.

Exactly, its part of the big changes they're making and not one I approve of. I don't mind Dick in Gotham, but if it comes at the expense of his past history with various other teams and heroes outside of Gotham i'd gladly switch the two characters positions. DC basically added to the character and took away from him at the same time. And its not an even trade by any means. Dick's spent the majority of his career outside of Gotham, and now that's all been erased, and really it just seems that they're doing it to make Tim special. (Like with the whole he was never Robin thing) I think Dick coming back to Gotham is a logical step for him, his journey finally coming full circle, but its come at too high of a cost.

Hmm. Well, yes, Dick made his bones in "New Teen Titans" and Bludhaven. Those stories are crucial moments in Dick's life, expanding his horizons and making him confront the worst part of himself. And yes, Dick's return to Gotham was entirely logical, first to train Damian, then to face the city itself. But DC - comics in general,really - always plays back and forth with continuity. Given the New52's vague history, the classic stories that defined Dick are not necessarily invalidated. Think of it the old and new continuities as separate OAVs, each telling the same story with slightly different details and characters. What's essential to the character will hopefully resonate in every new edition.

As far as Tim is concerned, "Teen Titans" #0 has yet to come out, so his origin and early history are still somewhat up in air.

I am intrigued with Lobdell's interpretation of Tim. Taking Tim's reverence for "Robin", a role Dick flourished in and Jason died for, could have easily convinced him to distance himself from taking on the mantle.

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ULTRAstarkiller

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#56  Edited By ULTRAstarkiller

grayson becauses he's goddamn batman or was goddamn batman

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#57  Edited By looper

best? hard to say, but Tim Drake seems like he is going a good job as Robin.

Dick Grayson is better as Nightwing.

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Tim Drake. I've just always liked Tim. It may be because for most of the Batman comics I've read, Tim was always Robin. Dick is better as Nightwing and Jason is better as Red Hood. Damian is just an *sshole and I just don't like him.

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#59  Edited By Blacklightning13

I'm not going to include Stephanie Brown due to both me not knowing that much about her and because I don't think she is the best. h2H Unarmed: 1. Dick Grayson 2. Damian Wayne 3. Tim Drake 4. Jason Todd h2h armed: 1. Tim Drake 2. Damian Wayne 3. Dick Grayson 4. Jason Todd Detective: 1. Tim Drake 2. Damian Wayne 3. Dick Grayson 4. Jason Todd Determination: 1. Jason Todd 2. Dick Grayson 3. Damian Wayne 4. Tim Drake Speed\acrobatics: 1. Dick Grayson 2. Damian Wayne 3. Tim Drake 4. Jason Todd Leaderhip: 1. Dick Grayson 2. Tim Drake 3. Jason Todd 4. Damian Wayne Overall: 1. Dick Grayson: 25 2. Tim Drake: 22 3. Damian Wayne: 21 4. Jason Todd: 12 I determined the points giving 4 points to a first and 3 to a second and so forth. I only changed it for Detective and unarmed h2h where I doubled the points it is worth, I did so because I see those 2 skills as the most valuable. This does make it look like Jason is inferior but in all except for the Detective skill (Tim is the best by a lot, the others are close to each other) it was close between all Robins.

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#60  Edited By Durakken

Would it be mean if I argued Trish Plover?

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KingOfHardcore

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#61  Edited By KingOfHardcore

In my opinion i feel that Damian Wayne and Dick Grayson were the best Robins just for the fact that Dick Grayson and Batman are the same in a lot of ways. and the fact that Damian is the son of batman

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mpierce2690

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#62  Edited By mpierce2690

Dick Grayson, but I want Stephanie Brown to become the new Robin post-Damian's death. She's my #2.

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#63  Edited By BATMAN9797

Tim Drake is the best Robin for sure

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Dick or Damian because Damian is trained by every robin fought every robin almost killed the joker trained by the league of assasins also he is genetically perfect and is son of batman and is viscous and ruthless as for dick he is an acrobat genius and hand to hand martial artist

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#65  Edited By majinn3

Tim Drake hands down, he accomplished the most as Robin and made the character more of a stand-alone hero. Dick was better as Nightwing, Jason was better as Redhood. Tim Drake is the closest to Bruce Wayne of the 3. Not to mention Ras Al Gul wanted to recruit Tim because of his potential. He even adressed Tim as "detective", a nickname he had previously reserved PURELY for Bruce/ Batman.

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tim89drake

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Tim drake. you don't even have to ask. Damian was a murderer, Grayson a small child who had to shave his pubes to fit into his leotard, Jason a rage filled criminal, stephanie the daughter of a criminal and the second robin to DIE,Carrie Kelley no one has ever heard of and drake, a better detective than batman, a skilled fighter, a computer genius, and an amazing leader. if you ask me, he would make a better batman than robin or red robin

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Easy choice. Grayson

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#70  Edited By btebaldi

Grayson was the best Robin.

End of discussion.

this

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redbird3rdboywonder

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Tim needs his own solo

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#72  Edited By MidknightStar

Tim Drake hands down was the better of those who held the title of Robin. He was smarter, had more personality *albeit a bit darker* and was just more well written in the comics to me.

Damian Wayne brings more rage and fighting skills o the table than most being he was trained as an assassin, J.Todd was alright but wasn't really anything more than just a side kick. Greyson...he's awesome as Nightwing but he had to evolve into that.

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MadFacedKid

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I like Tim.. But interesting place to put this thread...

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#75  Edited By Aahz

@nathaniel_christopher said:
When Dick Grayson was in Gotham he simply wasn't that interesting as a character. This is partially because of the time period he was being written (And perhaps the 2nd can be blamed on this), and partially because when working alongside Bruce, Dick's character wasn't allowed to grow. In terms of how the characters developed, that is where I would say Tim was the luckiest of the 3.

In Terms of publications he was probably the luckiest. He got his own solo series very fast, and was Robin in most Major events. Dick stoped working with Bruce just when the quality of the comics started to improve. And had no relay big event durig his Robin carer.

Jason had realy bad luck. The first Jason (the pre crisis Jason) got some realy good character development but was erased from existences at a point where they just could have started a solo series with him. And the second Jason sufferd from a rushed introduction (he was robin after 2 issues, pre crisis Jason and Tim were both introduced 10+ issues before they became finally Robin), and getting Jim Starling as a writer after 5 issues.

And both Jason had the problem that there were no other heroes at their age,you can see this in the few Teen titans Issues with him. Where he was by far the youngest and inexperienced member on top of having no super powers, so that he couldn't contribute next to nothing.

But at least he was Robin in some big events like crisis or the Cult.

@CaptainRodgers said:
Drake , he's different from the rest .

But he is very similar to Barbara Gordon.

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I would have to go with Damian. He's still the current Robin, so we still have a lot more to find out about him.

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#77  Edited By The_Kidd  Online
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Drake

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Tim was Robin when I was growing up, and he was the first Robin to get his own comic. He has been and always will be my favorite.

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Aahz

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and he was the first Robin to get his own comic.

But the reason for this is problay only a change in the publication stratgy. At the Time when Dick was Robin the comics hat more pages and you had several story with different characters in on issue. At this time only the Realy Big Heros (Batman, Superman, Woderwoman ... ) had their own Comics. Even Green Arrow and Martian Manhunter had their first own comic in the 80s. And it was not before the Beginning of the 90s that DC startet to give less popular Heros their own comics.

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Damian Wayne... because he's a boy in armour.

- TAS

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There are numerous reasons why Tim is the best. First of all, he is the first Robin who he himself, wanted to become Robin, and not pursue it out of vengeance, or do it so he could get justice somehow. He is morally driven to fight crime, just for the principle of right and wrong;For the sake of justice. This compass and motivation, compared to the previous Robins's, is much more healthy and orthodox.

Also, Tim has an incredibly high IQ. He's a super genius. He was able to deduce who Batman and Robin were, before he was even out of elementary school. (Like age 4-6?) And he got a perfect score on his SAT.

Another contributing factor, is his detective skills. He was the one who was able to figure out that Bruce Wayne was not in fact dead, but stuck in time, when no one else could piece these strings of clues, together, and figure it out.

Also, his skills with technology and computers, are vast and unparalleled. He is, the best hacker out of all the Robins.

Combat wise, he was trained by various martial art masters, and knows over 100 (As does Bruce).

He is also an expert at escapology, a great tactician and strategist, and especially stealth. (Which we know, thanks to his frequent escapades of stalking Batman and Robin, without their knowledge, at night.)

Also, Tim Drake has to put up with Damian Wayne, and that's credit enough.

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TheAmazingSpidey

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Damian Wayne - because since The Last of Us, I've got a craze for things like that.

- TAS

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Aahz

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#84  Edited By Aahz

@andletloveshinein:

Also, Tim has an incredibly high IQ. He's a super genius.

He is smart, but not really a super genius.

He was able to deduce who Batman and Robin were, before he was even out of elementary school. (Like age 4-6?)

He was 9, a this was more a coincidence than real detective work.

And he got a perfect score on his SAT.

He never finished high school, and in his test to attend the eleventh grade he made 95% (and he learned a lot for this Test), which is good but not perfect and his best friend Ives made 96%.

Also, his skills with technology and computers, are vast and unparalleled. He is, the best hacker out of all the Robins.

Damian is also a very good Hacker. And the extend of Jasons and Dicks hacking skills are mostly unknown.

And Tims skills are inferior to the skills of Oracle, Calculator and and probably Anarky and Brunce and Proxy are probably at least at Tims level too.

Combat wise, he was trained by various martial art masters, and knows over 100 (As does Bruce).

He trained with each of masters for one or two weeks at best. I doubt that he knows 100 styles. And he is probably the weakest fighter of the Robins.

He is also an expert at escapology, a great tactician and strategist, and especially stealth. (Which we know, thanks to his frequent escapades of stalking Batman and Robin, without their knowledge, at night.)

All Robins are good in this. And in the comics he stalked Batman only once, in bright day light, without a Robin and during a time where Bruce was on his lowest due to Jasons Death.

EDIT:

@Tims training

In the comics it is often said that Tim got more training than Jason, but in fact they where both trained 6 month. But Jason lived full time at Wayne Manor during this time (and was probably home schooled) while Tim until the kidnapping of his parents was still leading his normal life (and iirc attending a boarding school). Ok Tim had this trip to Paris to Train with this martial arts master but he didn't really used the trip for training. And even during his time as Robin most of time (for example during Knightfall, No Man's Land and his time in the Brentwood academy) he was on his own without any help and training from Bruce.

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TheHeaven_Guardian10

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@aahz: Dude you don't like Tim very much do, you basically gave him no credit what so ever, so Tim pales in comparison to every member of his family. The only he has going for him is what exactly his detective skills and he probably barley has that? Now Tim can't fight and is the weakest of the Robins and family, may I ask you is there anything Drake is good at? I'm sorry and apologize if I comes across sanppish.

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Aahz

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@theheaven_guardian10: I like Tim, the post was just a little polemic, since I'm just annoyed by this kind argumentation based on things that never really happened in the comics (like Tim stalking Batman and Robin at night, and him beeing Trained by Shiva).

Even if I have to admit that in the new 52 Tim is a genius and got a perfect score on a SAT in middle school, but pre flash point that wasn't the case.

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TheHeaven_Guardian10

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@aahz: But he did receive instruction from Shiva in martial arts and he was very gifted intellectually Pre-Flashpoint, he wasn't a super genius but he was extremely far from dumb.

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HighAccuser

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#88  Edited By HighAccuser

Tim I'd say.

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Cream_God

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Aahz

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@theheaven_guardian10: He had a few sparing sessions with Shiva, but thats imo different from being trained by her. The only thing she really thought him was that he should use that people will under estimate him. And all what he learned from her he could have probably also learned from Batman, it's not like she showed him any secret moves or something like that.

And in this series he was not really at the level he reached later, he was for example not even close to the level of Shen Chi, a some one whose ass he could easily kick when they met later in Legacy.

And I never said he was dumb, just that he was originally not a super genius.

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kcomicfan

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Dick Grayson.

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Aahz

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Imo it is actually impossible to say which Robin was the best, since they were all Robins in different comic ears and in comics that were written in a completely different tone. You can't compare a silver age comic with a modern age comic.

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TheHeaven_Guardian10

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@aahz: I totally understand and get were coming, I agree with you. It is kind of impossible who to say who is or was he best Robin. I think people confuse best with there favorite.

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Aahz

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@theheaven_guardian10: The hung is even if you don't go by the comics about their time as Robin and instead of use what was later established about their skill levels in stories in which they all appear, you end up with Tim being a better detective and Jason and Dick being better fighters, while they all are still very good in the other department. And you can't really say which is more important fighter or detective.

And if you compare Dick and Jason it is not even established who is better in which area.

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Nathaniel_Christopher

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@aahz said:

@theheaven_guardian10: The hung is even if you don't go by the comics about their time as Robin and instead of use what was later established about their skill levels in stories in which they all appear, you end up with Tim being a better detective and Jason and Dick being better fighters, while they all are still very good in the other department. And you can't really say which is more important fighter or detective.

And if you compare Dick and Jason it is not even established who is better in which area.

Based off showings its Dick in a landslide that's not even funny. Same with Tim honestly. Jason only gained further fighting ability once he'd become the Red Hood, which wouldn't apply to his time as Robin.

I think its possible to say which Robin was the best however, but that similar to arguments over who the best superhero is you have to define clear terms for what that actually means beforehand. Yeah they were written in different eras, but that's just how it is. Doesn't strike me as a limitation on the argument itself. Merely an aspect of it that you take into account.

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TheHeaven_Guardian10

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@nathaniel_christopher: I agree with you man on the Dick vs Jason topic, I think Dick has the edge over Jason, Tim as well. But that no knock on Jason at all.

So let me ask you. If you can only choice one who wou it be?

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Nathaniel_Christopher

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@nathaniel_christopher: I agree with you man on the Dick vs Jason topic, I think Dick has the edge over Jason, Tim as well. But that no knock on Jason at all.

So let me ask you. If you can only choice one who wou it be?

I'm still torn between Dick and Tim as I have been since this thread was created years ago. Still think they're the best candidates all around. Jason as Robin, put as simply as possible, doesn't have the credentials to be considered in this debate and neither does Stephanie Brown. Seeing as she's probably the most well known Elseworld's Robin, i'd also say the same about Carrie Kelly (Despite how much Frank Miller might try to hype her up as something special). That, in my opinion, only leaves Dick Grayson, Tim Drake/Wayne, and Damian Wayne as candidates for the discussion. It might then get a little tricky when playing with continuity, because Tim was technically never Robin Post-Flashpoint, but I think for the sake of the discussion we can all just agree to therefore toss any Post-Flashpoint feats for Tim aside (Especially seeing as how we haven't seen anything concerning his partnership with Batman anyways) and just consider what he did as Robin from 1989-2009. Since Damian however is still Robin after the reboot, I see no reason not to take all his feats that's he's performed as Robin, and same with Dick Grayson for Pre and Post Crisis.

I will say, i'm actually leaning a lot more towards Tim right now than I was previously. Just re-read some of the stuff from when he was trying to avoid being adopted by Bruce and the kid is talented as hell. Sometimes I think we honestly forget that, because in terms of fighting ability he's overshadowed by Dick and Jason typically, and even Damian makes fighting such a large focus of what he does that its easy for Tim to be overshadowed by him as well. However, he's no slouch in combat as it is and his other skills are top notch.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

This stuff that Batman is listing for him right here is crazy. Like I don't even know how else to put it. So right now I think that i'll say that Tim Drake at his prime might edge out Dick Grayson as Robin.

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deltahuman

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Robin Scherbatsky anyone?

She is hot though. Would look much better if she were Cap's love interest instead of Sharon

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Aahz

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#99  Edited By Aahz

@nathaniel_christopher said:

Based off showings its Dick in a landslide that's not even funny. Same with Tim honestly. Jason only gained further fighting ability once he'd become the Red Hood, which wouldn't apply to his time as Robin.

Depends on what you compare.

Since Jason was untill very shortly before his death always written as still being at beginning of his career you can't really compare him with Dick and Tim when they were at the peak of their careers and at an age Jason never reached (Dick and Tim were in High School in most comics, Jason in Middle School). On top of this there are any way not much stories with the post crisis Jason as Robin, and just one (extremely unspectacular) solo story.

But if you compare for example Jasons original origin with the Chuck Dixon version of Dicks (Robin Annual #4), Jason does for example much better when fighting against Ma Gunns kids, than Dick does against the kids in Juvie Hall.

But showings are not really a good base of comparison, since they are very dependent on the writer and the era, and there is no one at DC who checks if the writers get the relative power niveaus right.

And like I said that Dick and Jason are better at the physical stuff than Tim, and Tim is smarter is established and was explicitly mentioned on different occasions. For Jason and Dick it is not that clear who is better in which department.

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Nathaniel_Christopher

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@aahz said:
@nathaniel_christopher said:

Based off showings its Dick in a landslide that's not even funny. Same with Tim honestly. Jason only gained further fighting ability once he'd become the Red Hood, which wouldn't apply to his time as Robin.

Depends on what you compare.

Since Jason was untill very shortly before his death always written as still being at beginning of his career

Dick and Tim have more showings than Jason as Robin and all around better showings than Jason as Robin, in every single area. That's literally all that matters. Jason having such a short run as Robin is exactly why he's not even in the running. Same with Stephanie Brown. Such a discussion is speaking of what the characters accomplished in their time as Batman's sidekick/partner overall. Attempting to whittle it down to looking at a specific set of years for Jason's sake only proves exactly why he's not worthy of consideration.

Jason Todd as Robin is not physically better than Tim Drake. That's the Red Hood version of the character, who as I mentioned previously wouldn't be taken into account in a discussion of who was the best Robin.

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