I can understand the fanboyism, but not the constant Agenda, do people really believe that they will change the purpose/perception and core of the character? I mean Thor isn't only about power levels but also Journeys Into Mystery (perhaps that is what made his popularity grow more than the other powerhouses in the last years), but if you think your preferences are better why will you lose time with stuff that you dislike? Plus as a God, Thor always will be powerful and right hero (fit) to fight Celestials and Beyonders, why the constant downgrade?

Because people can't stand Thor being so powerful, people who grew up with Superman and love the character refuse to accept anyone can be more powerful, so they treat him like a street leveler, using whatever they can to make fun of him and it's saf honestly. Far more so than it is frustrating. People are going to hate whatever character poses a threat to their favorite hero.

@asgaard:

Thor is a powerful character with exploitable weakness like a rock or an unstable mind that can be used against him. He's an overall powerful character that has been raising in popularity rather quickly over the last few recent years thanks to the MCU. Popular characters are always going to get hate no matter what, and especially the powerful ones. As Thor's popularity grows so will his hate and I'm okay with that it just shows the character's popularity is rising.

That people that call him "slowdinson" are just butthurt that he beats their favorite character most of the time lol. Him being slow is the only way people on this site can justify him losing most of the time and speed = omnipotence on CV. But any competent comic fan that actually reads comics knows every time he has trouble tagging some street leveler or anyone for that matter there's some sort of context behind it. People see a cropped scan on this site and run with it and takes someone else words as gospel instead of doing their own research. Every character with super speed has been tagged by street levelers consistently throughout the years and idk why people try to act like speed isn't one of the most inconsistent aspects in comics.

@conner_wolf:

But by doing that they also are giving the character a lot credit/importance/notoriety...

Thor is awesome but a character like Superman has feats to counter Thor's. Hell Superman beat Thor in their only official fight that was even referenced in canon.

Who is Thor? I only know Slowdinson

They might not be threatened, they're pointing out the deficiencies in Thor's fighting and certain areas like combat speed and reactions. If this is about that entertaining but heated Hulk vs Thor thread, I would have thought it was obvious how contested that debate was by now. Not everyone who says Thor loses to X hates Thor, there may be some people who like Thor but think he loses to characters they don't like as much.

Because a Thor with Supermans level of speed would be terrifying. He already hits harder and is arguable stronger and to top it off quite possibly tougher than Big Blue anyway.

I don't think Hulk has it much better on this site. I don't know who started this whole speed=equals win bullshit, but I do know I want to skin him or her alive, the pointlessnes of arguing a fictional battle between fictional characters is nothing compared to the pointlessnes of arguing a fictional battle between fictional characters applying rules that don't apply to their universes.

That is so true. If Superspeed isn't your only power, its neglectable as far as dodging attacks of similiarly powerful characters go only pure speedsters are ever depicted as almost untouchable and all of them have instances of some martial arts based character hitting them. All the Superman types are generally just moving in bursts of speed anyways.

@uugieboogie:

As Thor's popularity grows so will his hate and I'm okay with that it just shows the character's popularity is rising.

Good point i guess that could be seen as a consequence, still don't get the constant agenda spending a lot of time hating a fictional character that will never have implications with their preferences is just absurd...

But any competent comic fan that actually reads comics knows every time he has trouble tagging some street leveler or anyone for that matter there's some sort of context behind it. People see a cropped scan on this site and run with it and takes someone else words as gospel instead of doing their own research. Every character with super speed has been tagged by street levelers consistently throughout the years and idk why people try to act like speed isn't one of the most inconsistent aspects in comics.

Comics tell a story, you can post a panel and don't know to what issue/run belongs, but 100 theories and assumptions will be made that is ridiculous, Thor is popular now but people still post a lot of nonsense about him, for ex. in how they acknowledge his mentality and beliefs systems, but what is hilarious is how people just try to guess stuff about other more unknown characters like Angela, they just don't know shit about her but they still post it anyway and giving the impression that they read every issue where she was portrayed...

But no one bats an eye when other characters have been consistently tagged by street levelers throughout the years. In battles they say Thor is always brute that can't fight so he loses. But when you bring how someone else acts consistently in comics you get the reply 'Well we're suppose to take these characters at their best and they're suppose to be operating at the best of their capacity" but you're a fanboy when you use the same concept for Thor.

It's not people saying Thor loses that makes them a hater. It's the comments "slowdinson" and such which shows someones either a hater or a troll. A person that actually reads Thor comics nows speed doesn't hinder him in a fight with anyone but street levelers yet people take that and apply it to every fight. We also try to act like on this site that Thor is the only powerhouse that has had trouble with street levelers. It's a known fact that speed runs comicvine and "speed" is the argument used 9/10 in thread involving Thor. You can't even get a good debate against ppl involving Thor vs X because he's automatically listed as being too slow and even Hulk fans are doing it lol.

Was the story any good? Wasn't that before Thor's rising path? Even before Straczynski run?

Is that character that now is popular and somehow you are threatened by him, otherwise you wouldn't post that irrelevant content.

Loses what? I could swear that Thor popularity is growing each day, What deficiencies? It's a fictional character that was created to tell stories that had several interpretations and very different writers, Opinion ≠ Agenda...

Lol, And Star Lord, what is funny is that people with Agenda are so concentrated in proving their agenda points that don't have the capacity to mock who ever said that... And that also makes them look ridiculous...

No one even questioned when that was said which shows no one even does research on characters lol.

@asgaard: Thor is a great character. I like him, but we're debating comic characters...

Speed isn't everything but it's a big factor. In real life a guy can be faster but still lose to someone more powerful, or a guy could be more powerful but still lose to someone faster.

In comics, the game changes. Superman has been shown more times to be faster than Thor actively than vice versa. This is an ability we attribute to the character. Maybe Thor isn't as slow as people exaggerate but he still hasn't shown to edge supes out in speed.

the reason this plays heavyy in battles is because one hit from superman and Thor is gonna feel it, he might shrug it off, but he's gonna feel it.

Now on the forums we debate in a certain way. In or out of character, morals on or off, bloodlust on or off. THAT is the problem.

Morals on and in character, it's comic supes. Always slugging it out. But in turn it's also comic Thor. Always slugging it out.

Most of the time we want a fight where they are at the best of the abilities. In which cases they use their full range of abilities (which is where speed comes into play). Now what happens if your opponent can speed up his perception to see you in slow motion and land a few hits and you can do nothing about it?

The problem isn't the speed argument, it's the fact that they can use it to the best of their abilities. You may argue characters like flash shouldn't be able to do crap to brutes but at the end of the day no one other than those connected to the speed force have shown to resist speed steal.

Heck freakin jay Garrick speed stole superman.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that speed isn't the problem,it's whether they can use it to their full potential or If they are barred by plot.

And that Ms the true meaning of PIS bi**hes (not aimed at you, just got caught up in the moment..)

Sorry for the long post

Because the other fanbases are reluctant to finally realize that Thor's combat speed far surpasses that of Wally West's, as though Wally is just a statue. Other fanbases are also reluctant to agree on that Thor is a omniversal+ character that almost equals the caliber of our dear lord Sentry.

In all seriousness though, it's probably because Thor fanboys make Thor out to be some kind of skyfather-level being. Some Thor fanboys believe that Thor got speed equal to that of beings like Superman, and the fact that those fanboys believe that it's sacreligious to deny so, even with irrefutable proof, makes them want to argue back when there's nothing to be argued for, which makes them seem totally irrational.

That's one of my reasons, I feel offended when I try to reason with tho-- aaahhm, I mean debate with those people.

@captain_batman_ftw: Low-end feats don't equal irrefutable proof. By that logic I can easily show off Superman's low-end feats and say that's proof.

Exactly, Uugie you've nailed it, it's the fact people openly mock Thor, they don't take him seriously, then they try to say "Oh Thor being slow is a fact" despite any showings that he is in fact not slow, they make excuses, they just mock him outright. That's proof enough that people feel threatened by him. People will say "Oh I like Thor, but he loses" but then turn around and call him Slowdinson, that's clearly just saying that you like a character so you don't look like a hater.

No other fan bases feel threatened by Thor. @ghostravage has made it widely known that Thor is a slug and now his fans are hurt about it and they think that saying Thor is slow is just throwing shade or hate towards Thor.

People just get an idea in their head that they don't like something at some point then it just grows into hate and they feel the need to constantly attack the character and go out of the way to do it, they don't see anything other than their viewpoint. It's not everyone, people can have their opinions but having an opinion is different to forcing your opinion on everyone as fact just because they said it and they don't understand the difference between the two.

Also all the people that call him 'slowdinson' seriously have nothing better to do than try and provoke people and hate on the character.

@uugieboogie: You're mixing up some of the differences. Most of the other powerhouses who get tagged by street levellers, like Superman, have dozens more speed feats where they react much more quickly than a street leveller should be able to tag. Others, like Blue Marvel only have bullrush blitzes and not combat speed. That's the consistency of good speed feats Thor is missing. At his best, Thor isn't faster than a top tier street leveller IMO. Because of feats, not because I don't like Thor.

Speed doesn't hinder Thor against Silver Surfer or Gladiator because the writers don't have them use their speed to blitz Thor. I can understand speed being an aggravating topic but that doesn't make it any less valid for battle board discussion. There's justification for those people you feel are dissing Thor, some of them have good reasons for it.

@asgaard: The loses part was a battle boards remark which I recall you aren't interested in. As for deficiencies, not everyone likes what we like. Some might find Thor to be an arrogant and simplistic character when there's more to Thor's character and lore in the Marvel universe than that. People like characters I don't and can't understand to this day.

I just don't get how he automatically loses because he's slower. People seem to forget whenever speed is even a factor in a fight with him its against a street leveler (i.e he's holding back) or there's context behind it. I also like how people downplay other characters to make Thor even seem slower lol. That Angela low ball is a new one lol.

In general Marvel barely even focuses or talks about speed when it comes to high tiers. Its not important to their writers. So because of that, they often lack speed feats. So when arguments between Marvel and DC characters happen, naturally some DC characters will have speed advantages.

The problem is, DC fans will immediately shoot down the speed feats Marvel characters do have in order to totally disregard their speed.

Both if they're tagged by characters without "super reflexes" consistently throughout their publication yet they still display that they are above that would simply prove my point on speed in comics being completely inconsistent. Because of feats characters like Thor and Blue Marvel would still need "super reflexes" or perception to even do their bull rushes. Hell, they'll even need good reflexes or perception to not crash into a building when they're flying, or a random pedestrian or so whenever they're flying to earth they won't fly passed it. It's not that he's missing consistent good speed feat, no. It's that he's missing consistent feats that put him on par with the likes Wonder Woman, Superman etc and you're automatically slow or get stomped if you're not fast as them. And the fact that 98% of users on this site take what others say too much and don't do their own research makes it even worst. When someone brings a scan along proving the opposite it's automatically disregarded and tossed to the side. Unlike most users I never said you didn't like Thor but it is clear that you like Superman more and there's nothing wrong with that.

Speed doesn't hinder him because Thor has the perception capabilities to see these characters when they're trying to attack him. This doesn't mean he can always move his limbs to physically react and this is why he usually either uses his durability taking the hit and then countering or using one of his AoE attacks. The first one he used against both Hyperion and Gladiator and the second he used against QS and Wolverine. Hyperion bull rushed Thor and Thor took it and countered. Glads used his Super speed to run around Thor and attack him and Thor (Masterson) took that attack and countered. He's effectively dealt with characters faster than him before and more than once. I don't have a problem with speed or it being used but people on this site see speed as an auto win. You don't even see arguments anymore all you see is "Speed blitz".

I dont think ghostravage is a DC fan. He just shoots down false claims with context and facts.

@redatom1234:

No problem with the long post, but with that content you are reinforcing what @conner_wolf: said, i mean i never even mention Superman, sincerely sounds like you and other Superman fans are signing a guilty confession, for the record i don't really care about battles of fictional characters, although sometimes the level of the stupidity of some claims annoys me...

@captain_batman_ftw:

Why do you generalize Thor fan base? There is the possibility that people also like the character because they like his warrior spirit/honor, personality/identity and supporting Cast, and 10 realms are also cool...

Isn't Wally West the character that can defeat Thanos according to CV battles? Thanos that character that has a romantic relationship with the the abstract being that governs the end of life, for all infinity, all reality, trillions multiplied by trillions… Death!?

Can you see how irrelevant physics can be when we introduce other concepts? There is stupidity everywhere in all the CV battles forum, because users can't shut down the fanboyism they just post to prove the superiority of their preferences...

Who said that i care if some random users say that the Hulk beats Thor in a fictional fight about fictional characters? Did i contradict that?

Breaking News: Some random dudes just prove ???!!!! (how???) Thor power levels suck for CV battles, all Disney executives are in reunion to decide if they cancel the Ragnarok movie or not...

I just have my own opinion that isn't conditioned by anyone, that user just doesn't know anything about Angela like 99% of comicvine and claimed that her combat speed is equal to Gamora and Star Lord? Lol It's false as the scans prove i just didn't ignore it like everybody else did, i like to be that guy specially with some users...

Angela being on par with the likes of the GoTG and Mantis in terms of speed is not a fact. Nobody even said he was a DC fan everyone on this site knows he is a Hulk fan. And who's alt are you?

@destroyer1 said:

You're right, he's a Thor hater, there is no context when Thor manages to outspeed someone with nanosecond level speeds, or easily jukes someone using travel speed, who crossed the universe in seconds, there is no context to that, and there is no logical way to say that the multitude of characters Thor has fought with nanosecond level speeds have never used their speed against him. In all honesty, if you say "Out of the multitude of characters with lightspeed fighting speeds, Thor fought all of them, but none of them could have been using their speed because Thor is slow" you are using roundabout logic. You are saying they aren't using their speed because Thor isn't fast enough to react to those speeds.... because Thor has never reacted to those speeds? After all the characters Thor has fought, it is only logical to assume that they have used their speed against Thor, otherwise that just means Thor has a new power to reduce the speed of enemy combatants to his level.

It is illogical to say all of those characters never once used their speed. And illogical means you can't use that as the default, if you want to have a vs matchup, you use logic, and that is not logic. Saying "He debunks false claims with context and facts" is just a blatant lie and makes me think you're actually GhostRavage, or just one of his fanboys. There is no contexts to Thor reacting to Silver Surfer, there is no context to him blitzing Gladiator, there is no context to him reacting to Sentry's blitz, there is no context to him reacting to Hyperion's blitz, you say Thor fans take things out of context, then go on and say what the context is.

Did Thor have some sort of powerup that lets him do this?

Were the characters he was fighting explicitly depowered?

Were they in a place that Thor was stronger?

Were they going slow for some purposeful reason?

No, no, no, and no, there is no context, you have no argument, therefore you lose your stance. That is the end of that topic, all you need to know is those characters are capable of those speeds, and they are CLEARLY utilizing them. I'm sorry Sesame Street isn't there to hold your hand when you read Marvel comics, but if someone who is FTL who is blitzing Thor, is likely blitzing him FTL, if someone who is MFTL is blitzing Thor, they are likely doing so at MFTL. Especially if he is easily avoiding them and then they are then helpless to do anything back. Is it not logical to assume that someone is going to let themselves lose and not even once utilize their speed when they've clearly done so in similar situations, against other opponents when speed was necessary.

I cant comment on those characters because I wasn't talking about them and don't read those comicbooks. What I do know is that @ghostravage always backs up his words with scans and context. And look at this paranoia some of the Thor fans have. Now nobody can join comicvine and talk about ghostravage's debates without being an alt. Get over yourselves people.

You just commented on those characters though lol. Those were characters that he used in his debate and there was no evidence to back up Angela being on par with the likes of Star Lord and Gamora lol. Please enlighten me on what comic book you actually do read? lol.

And no it's not paranoid. You said he always backs up his words and claims and you speak so highly of him yet you've only been apart of this site for a day lol. That's why I asked who's alt are you.

No, I didnt talk about them at all. I never once mentioned those characters. I only mentioned ghostravage and thor. then you or someone else brought up those other characters.

I've lurked on this site for a month and barely made my account. I know who he is from reading his debate from 2 days ago. Does that suffice or will your paranoia continue?

Im not the expert. Take that up with the guy who is, @ghostravage .

@destroyer1: I don't know what you mean by expert, you didn't tag one.

Oh, snap! Good one.

Dude that was apart of his argument. He compared Angela to Star Lord and Gamora to justify Thor being slow. Are you sure you read his argument? It was clear as day that wasn't backed with any context or fact like you said.

So you lurked on this site for a month following a specific user and reading all his debates? Idc if you're an alt it just depends on who's alt you are.

I wasn't referring specifically to that part of his argument.

No, not reading all his debates. That sounds stalker-ish. Well, I'm not so it doesn't matter.

But Thor being slow was his argument was it not? And you said he always backs his claims with context and facts right?

And it does sound pretty stalker-ish but you said it not me.

@uugieboogie: Again you're failing to understand the difference. When Superman is tagged by a random street leveller, there are dozens more feats where he does stuff that makes it impossible for a steer leveller to lay hands on him. When Thor gets tagged by street levellers, it's supported by plenty of evidence where more street levellers dance around Thor easily. The evidence is too overwhelming and too one sided with Thor to deny this on a logical basis. As for Thor's reflexes whilst travelling, he gets pulled along by Mjolnir. It's clearly all the hammer's work not him and it's a double standard to apply travel speed feats onto combat speed feats which require different capabilities for each. And when Thor has a weapon that can travel at FTL speeds, it makes sense how it can pull him along without him reacting to it. Maybe other people don't do their own research but the same can easily be said for the Thor fanboys too. But I have done research on this subject and I have not seen a single argument which has caused me to change my mind on it. The evidence and arguments are not good enough.

Ah and now we come to the predictable character bias accusation, that didn't take long. Yes I prefer Superman to Thor, that is true. What is untrue however is how that affects my battle forum judgement. I don't think Superman beats Thor because I prefer him more, I think Superman beats Thor because he's stronger physically, faster, more durable, more versatile and more tactical. And my view is supported by feats and reasonable justification, not by preference. To try and pull that card on me, along with those who agree with Ghost Ravage's arguments is pretty shoddy to say the least.

If there's one power Thor lacks, it's superhuman perception. Where was it when Sentry levelled Asgard? Where was it when Surfer sent his board on Thor? Where was his perception when Gladiator made him drop his hammer? The list goes on. As for the alternatives, they don't work on anyone who can move fast enough. Thor's AOE on Quicksilver involved smashing the ground thus disrupting the surface he was running on. That wouldn't work on a flying speedster. Just because he took Hyperion's blitz, your premise does not follow that he can take other blitzes. And Gladiator blitzed and temporarily overpowered the real Thor so there's that to consider. All in all, your misgivings seem rooted in not liking the fact that Thor can't fight certain characters and trying to compensate for that. With all the vitriol and apologists trying to excuse Thor's consistent speed record, I could waste more time than I should if I was at a computer with the lackluster defenses on this thread alone.

Naaaah. Not stronger than new-52 Superman (not even close actually) and not more durale than pre-52 Kal.

@zandalf: lol

@uugieboogie This thread needs people like Sodamyat, that's why i made it, no one else could prove better my point...

@micah:

;)

@asgaard: @conner_wolf: @uugieboogie:I'm just going to post this very quickly because the saltiness, childish bashing and blatant butthurt towards my arguments and MY work on the vine is rather absurd. Angela has no speed feats to claim she's faster than a top tier street leveler like Gamora, mainly because she had a very decent match with Gamora alone in which they proved to be somehow equally matched before Angela got the upper hand prior to the team's arrival. Regardless of the outcome, Gamora was never overpowered by Angela's speed but physicals considering she's a 50 toner. The fight took place between Guardians of the Galaxy #5 and Guardians of the Galaxy #6 and there was absolutely no implication that Angela was sporting any kind of super speed, just high levels of skill which then again were comparable to Gamora herself considering she actually harmed her, tagged her, dodged hits, blocked hits and all that jada jada...

Gallery

It is blatantly obvious she has no super speed whatsoever, she's just very skilled and insanely strong by street leveler standards yet she somehow struggles to overpower Gamora yet overpowers Thor, calls him slow, mocks Mjolnir's speed and proceeds to humiliate him physically. In their second encounter, Angela does the same thing until Thor asked her if she was faster than lightning and exploited her weakness, namely lightning, which in that moment was existing. Moreover, her handbook entry of 2015 from Avengers NOW! Hanbook doesn't mention, implies, states nor confirms any super speed whatsoever and actually catalogues her as a class 3 in speed which most street levelers are.

You wanted proof? There's your proof. Now, i would politely ask for you too keep your silly attempts to discredit what is factually proven, as well as drop the attempts to discredit ME, catalogue me as a fanboy and Thor hater and on top of that imply i have a freaking alt account to boast myself, i do NOT know who Destroyer1 is and i could care less about him. I really need you to get this through your very special minds... ASK for the proof first before posting bullshit about me, because besides being recognized by the most elite community of debaters of the vine as a context police, i'm also known to smack people around, specially the arrogant and childish ones that even create a thread to hate on me. All in all, the only thing i got from here was:

Now, we can start all this again with the right foot, i think i have enough with Thor_Parker selling rotten apples by implying i'm a Thor hater. I've done the same f*cking thing with Hulk, with Superman, with Daredevil, with Taskmaster... I could care less about which character is being argued, if i see bullshit i'm going to mention it and proceed to counter with facts. Want a civil debate? Act like civil debaters.

@ghostravage: A handbook is not proof.

And Thor has hit beings like Thanos with his lightning as well, Thanos easily reacted to Silver Surfer, does that make Silver Surfer below street level now? I mean if you listen to Tom Breevort-you probably do, you're a Thor hater-then yeah, Spider-Man is above SS. If you honestly wanna get down I can point out plenty of times attacks that clearly weren't FTL or even sound-level made contact with Superman, because yeah, apparently getting tagged by street levelers means you're a street leveler in speed now? Superman has even been tagged by lightning before, I guess lightning>Superman in speed.

Gallery

Now watch as you get your jimmies rustled and tell me how low-end feats don't apply to Superman because he's "Superman" but apparently Thor's low end feats all apply no matter what the circumstances are, whatever it takes to put down Thor, right?

Your logic is flawed, your hate is clear, and you have no arguments besides putting Thor down. If you're trying to call Thor a street leveler than you just need to just get out and stop being so ridiculous. You almost have a fetish for putting Thor down and making him look weak, that classifies as a Thor hater.