I keep hearing people say that simce Eddie killed himself then that means that things should just reset but they aren't seeing what the paradox is.

See if Eobard never existed Eddie wouldn't have shot himself.

I think this episode was phenomenal. Every episode just kept getting better this season, and that ending made me nothing by hype for Season 2.

Barry speeding into a wormhole was the best part for me, I'm nothing but hype for Season 2.

Wasn't that great.

Yeah, but Thawne also fell off a building with no damage. The shows pretty inconsistent. Arrow just needed to serve a purpose in that episode, so he was allowed to.

Why does everyone seem ok to have their existence literally erased and rewritten just so barry can have his mom back. This is essentially barry committing global genocide. Sure he's gonna create another earth but everyone he knows basically dies and the new versions wont be the same people. This is some Supervillain level evil.

Too be honest I am kinda disappointed with how the Eddie story turned out... Initially, I wrote him off as Tommy Merlyn but then I thought he was going to live and make it to the second season...

Cosnett is not coming back but Cavanagh is apparently...

Honestly not surprised with the abrupt ending. Arrow's S1 ending was pretty abrupt too. Ending did nothing but make me more excited for S2.

I'm going to go partially OT on this (but it is related). Doesn't the comic world characters read or watch comic books/scifi shows? Already we have a very good idea about the different effects of time travel (mutable vs. immutable). This world comes across as if the idea and effects of time is only for those within the area of higher physics and people outside this have never seen nor heard of the possibility. Didn't H.G. Wells exist? Star Trek? Back to the Future trilogy?

Yep, the "Flash of Two Worlds" issue ergo the appearance of Jay's helmet.

What about the shot of Killer frost?!

yeah and the whole time paradox thing does not make sense after they just described the multiverse theory.

I love how everyone has stupid questions about time travel, it's a COMIC book television show... And there's a second season coming, chill people you're questions will be answered..

I really enjoyed the finale!

Consider this - we don't really know WHAT the consequences will be of the choice that Barry made since the show ended on a cliffhanger. So that should all play out next season.

But look at the doors that were opened!! Jay Garrick's helmet! A glimpse of Kendra! A bit of Killer Frost! Hints of Vibe to come! And with Eddie being sucked up into the wormhole, I don't see any reason he couldn;t survive to be the NEW Reverse Flash!!!

I enjoyed it way more than I did the season finale of ARROW.

@inferiorego I think you mixed up some names a couple times there. Saying Wells when you meant Barry and Barry when you meant Wells. But why do you keep calling Martin Stein "Dr. Martin"?

I either missed the Killer Frost appearance or did not realize what it was in the amount of time it appeared, but thanks to @galacticfork for the info on where that was. And I was thinking I missed the Hawkgirl appearance too, but thanks to @supbatz for clarifying that. Upon reading that post, I remembered thinking it was odd that they'd showcase this random chick alongside Cold, Henry, and Singh.

Anyway, now to my thoughts. First of all, if you remember the Season 1 finale of Arrow, it too ended on a cliffhanger, in the middle of the Undertaking, then Season 2 picked up six months after the undertaking. That threw me through a loop when that happened. I certainly hope this one works differently

This season finale was very, very emotional. I shed a tear or at least got watery-eyed several times. The first season finale of Arrow was also very emotional, but in a different way. It all came at the end with the death of Tommy Merlyn. (who I still hope it turns out was resurrected with a Lazarus Pit and became a crazed assassin a la Jason Todd.) But I remember that after watching that Arrow season one finale, I was emotionally reeling for the next several hours.

In speaking of Tommy Merlyn. Did I not call from the beginning that Eddie would be used in the same way as the character killed off in the season one finale? Now I'm thinking he survived and will return, likely as Cobalt Blue. They did say the panels on the time bubble were made of cobalt..

As for the Jay Garrick helmet. I certainly was not expecting that. But since it happened, we can only speculate on what its significance is. Is Earth Two on the other side of the wormhole? Did Wells/Thawne know exactly who it belonged to?

I can't currently remember if there was anything else I wanted to touch on in this post, but this finale certainly was thought-provoking and leaves you wanting more. A lot of the people who have posted before me have some really great, smart ideas.

I wished they also showed an image of Superman/Supergirl when Barry was traveling the timestream and seeing images from alternate universes.

They risk the whole Universe being destroyed so Barry can save his mom and Eobard can get back to home and neither happened. That sucks

How did you not mention the Killer Frost cameo in the timestream!? Also I hope Eddie killing himself means Tom Cavangh can come back as the real Harrison Wells next season or through some time paradox thing still be Thawne but just stay stuck looking at Wells. I'm okay with the other guy that played the "real" Thawne but in this show Wells is Reverse-Flash to me now. I also feel like without Wells they'll lose a big part of the group dynamic in season two.

Since Eddie was carrying that piece of cobalt metal i'm just going to wait for him to come back as Cobalt Blue.

Did they just play Crowded House's "Don't Dream It's Over"...? Pffft

HOW DARE YOU, HOW DARE YOU FILL ME WITH 80s FEELS!!! I don't even care about Caitlin and Ronnie. I'm not crying, YOU'RE crying. Shut up!!!

You see that giant hole opening up in the sky? That is this timeline being ripped apart.

This is about to get weird, but follow me here. Eddie kills himself, therefore Eobard never lives. Eobard never fights Flash. He never learns his name, travels back in time, and kills his mother. Wells never dies in that car crash. The metas don't show up so early.

Everything in Flash has been on fast forward. Every event that has happened has happened way to fast. Killing Eddie successfully cuts off this parallel timeline.

It has already been confirmed that Wells will be a season 2 regular, but Eddie is gone. My guest, we are going back to the original timeline.

Source: http://www.superherohype.com/news/341459-the-flashs-andrew-kreisberg-teases-the-future-of-the-series

Half of a (presumably full) building gets sucked into the multiverse all because Barry took forever to do literally everything. And they were worried about him going Mach 2 but then he was suddenly able to run up debris being pulled into a wormhole and then run fast enough to counteract it? I guess we won't know for a few months.

Also, why did they give them a 1:52 time limit when everything clearly took longer than that? Entire conversations, according to that timer, happened in like 15 seconds. And Barry was in the last for far longer than a less than 2 minutes. They should've just said he had a 12 minute window of time instead. A 1:52 was unnecessary and arbitrary

If Eobard never existed then Barry still wouldn't be Flash? His mother can't be killed by someone who never existed. That's goofy

I think that the next season we are going to see the real Wells.

it was an amazing episode,great season for the flash and im super excited for the second season and just whats to come for the many characters of this world.I mean there are some moments that made me tear a bit,and just had it all when I look for ending a season,personally for me it is 5/5 great show,and just a fantastic cast and crew! Also love Flashes speed effect,they are truly fantastic.

@tiedyebowtie: it stated that in wells original time line Barry's mother lived and Barry became the flash 5 years later then he did in the show.

@pizzaman: do you think they'll go the twin brother route? I think it would be interesting

maybe not twins but probably brothers. might not do anything with it. might just be another easter egg.

This whole season works as such great complimentary material to Geoff Johns's Barry Flash run. As well as taking an unexpected deviation from what created Flashpoint as a lot of people considered Barry saving his mother completly against charactor. Flashpoint, Barry's Mother's death and the begginning of the New 52 are still such loose hanging plot lines I'm just really happy we see these looked at again. As well as possibly in the comics starting in June.

Just as an aside, there's another way you can prevent yourself from having kids without dying...

Great ending, fantastic.

@dan12456- That makes no sense man, why would Eddie killing himself erase everyone else? What? Nobody else is related to him only Eobard so that makes perfect sense actually. Don't see how that's a plothole. Besides, Eddie will be brought back some how next season since Wells/Eobard is returning.

4 stars? This episode deserves a high five.

Barry had a hard time, deciding whether he should go back in time and save his mother. This is one of those hardest decisions to ever make. That's why he went back and forth seeking advice. I don't think it's a big problem.

JAY GARRICK's HELMET!!!

Multiversity!!! Hell yes!

This episode was awesome. I can wait till autumn!

The future Barry telling his younger shelf to not save Nora Allen...just jaw-dropping.

What's cool aswell is that we got a Killer Frost cameo in the Speed force...

I over everything about this episode

I'm more interested of the little clip we saw of Barry in jail. We might see a world that explores the Flash on Trial storyline.

I think a good way to have Jay come in, is naturally the alternate universe route. Try to make for a good, ultimately somewhat filler episode. Yes, not many care for filler, but I think it all depends on how you do the set up. Okay so assume Barry travels to an alternate universe where while HE may exist and The Flash exists..... He is NOT The Flash, Jay Garrick is. Now ideally? I would want a Jay that's a lot older than Barry, maybe an actor in his mid-to-late 40's or early 50's... Maybe Rob Lowe.

Why? Because I want it to be a Jay who's had a long career that shows no signs of slowing down yet, and is happily married with Joan. I want it to serve as a kind of... Wake up call for Barry, an episode showcasing Barry a life that he COULD have potentially had if his mom didn't die. I'd have Jay's life be kinda BETTER than Barry's. His mother is still alive, his father recently passed of natural causes, he married his childhood sweetheart, and so on.

Naturally he became The Flash in a different way than Barry. Essentially metahumans began to appear in a different manner, mainly in this universe with various ways to bring out powers that take the form of accidents or other extreme stress situations. I wouldn't go into WHY this is the case, since as it is in pretty much ANY DC Universe metahumans are just a thing.

However, while Jay's life may seem BETTER it's not ALL sunshine naturally. Jay admits that he initially had ideas of using his powers for less than... Honorable means. He used them to become the star player of his college football team, and until Joan and her father were kidnapped by terrorists looking to exploit her father's genius, he had no real intentions of being a superhero. It's because of that guilt of NOT having those plain INNATE heroic qualities that causes Jay to try and do as much as he can to as The Flash to help people since he only really won Joan over because he saved her life and that's where their relationship started.

Essentially it's almost a Peter Parker scenario, only a hero because of a tragic(Or in Jay's case NEAR tragic) event and as such the guilt is a driving force. Jay's original origin was always lacking in motivation, that big reason WHY he was a superhero since he seemed to be happy enough using his powers for personal gain to begin with.

I would also have The Shade be the primary villain of the episode since, classic Jay villain and since his powers are magical? Yeah, I'd say Barry's first experience with magic would benefit from it being in an alternate universe first since it's more likely he'd believe magic exists THERE since he doesn't know how all of that world's physics work and still leave him open to be shocked it exists in HIS universe.

And end it with Jay calling in a friend to help Barry get back to his universe.....

So disappointed by this for the finale. If it was the pentultinate it would have been perfect

My dad actually made that helmet for the prop guys on the show. It was pretty sweet seeing in on screen.

This episode was pretty good. The only negatives I have are the plot holes and unfortunately they are as massive as the wormhole Barry created.

I feel Eobard, didn't escape because he didn't want to. In some twisted way, he's actually come to care for Barry, Cisco, and all the people he's interacted with as Wells. Even if he does try to kill them. Which is why he would be willing to give Barry the chance to save his Mom...and also get home. You're right. He probably could have easily vibrated out, but he chose not to.

Alternatively, he doesn't have enough Speed Force in his body to actually phase at this point, since I'm not entirely sure he was able to recharge his cells while he was locked up and probably used a majority of it fighting Arrow, Firestorm, and Flash.

Triternatively (sort of just made that up,) they made the cell specifically so that he couldn't phase through it somehow, but don't ask me how they could do that.

If Reverse Flash never existed shouldn't barrys mother come back? shouldn't the timeline change? pardon me if this was discussed earlier in thread, I just finished the episode and wanted to ask this without reading 3 pages first lol

Agreed. Loved that whole scene, and Wells especially. It's seriously funny how he both loves and doesn't care what happens to these people.

I mean, think about it. You're dealing with time travel and forces you can't truly begin to comprehend. It's like Stein said. What could fifteen years of different choices and experiences do to the world, especially for a guy like The Flash...who was warned by a possibly older and much wiser version of himself, against interfering. While he may have thought one thing going in, he changed his mind at the last minute, which isn't much better but...it's not a totally farfetched thing to consider...then again time travel itself is pretty farfetched, but what isn't in The Flash?

If Reverse Flash never existed shouldn't barrys mother come back? shouldn't the timeline change? pardon me if this was discussed earlier in thread, I just finished the episode and wanted to ask this without reading 3 pages first lol

To me the timeline should look like this. Eddie kills himself, Eobard is erased, the timeline changes, however it does so in the manner that everything is peeled back. Eddie dying and erasing any of his descendants from existence also erases the cause for why he did it, but that cause was only brought about by actions that happened prior to this point by an external actor on the timeline. The bottom line is everybody should have been brought back in time to the point where the timeline was first altered by being that in that moment no longer exists, from there eddie will have another opportunity to either make the same decisions or other decisions which will ultimately determine whether the cause for eddie shooting himself occurs. Does eddie impregnate the same woman? Does his son or daughter make the same decisions as the first time? I do not subscribe to the idea that we will make the same decisions in every timeline, if we did than string theory is totally off, so to me this is not a paradox.

The biggest issue I am having is with Eobards existence at all. It all predicates on Eddie impregnating a specific woman, yet it was clear that eddies path was also altered by eobards meddling. To me this is very much a futurama situation, and the plot holes surrounding eddies decisions for the furture are really going to be the reason why the timeline gets reset or doesn't. To me its pretty insulting to eddie if you think hes so one dimensional that he will always make the same decisions in everytime line regardless of the differences that all alternate timelines have. Nobody makes the same choices day to day, if I relived today, I guarantee I wouldnt do things the same way, animals simply aren't that precise, a lot of the times we make it up as we go.

Because, Barry has been saving lives for awhile now, with nary a thing in return. I guess they all sort of feel like they owe it to Barry to let him have the life he could/should have had, had it not been for Eobard. Plus, I don't think it's a matter of rewriting one world to create another. Simply put, I think one timeline just goes without. When Barry went back in time the first time, when he was fighting Weather Wizard, he didn't commit genocide or anything like that. If anything that world just doesn't have Barry Allen as The Flash anymore. Nobody dies, I think? They just move on, with only memories of the person who left.

@scouterv: Unacceptable. It's dumb. He's older self couldn't have been all that wise or he would have found a way to warn his past self about Reverse Flash.

Wiser, but not all-knowing/seeing.

And what's he going to tell his younger self?

"Hey, I'm you from the future. Listen, go to a movie tonight. I think the Mask of Zorro is playing. You'll meet another kid there named Bruce. Stick with him for the rest of your life and make sure your parents and you don't come home til about...10:30ish. Yeah...yeah, we should be done by then."

First off, his parents are hardly going to believe him when he says some guy from the future told him to leave, and Flash probably only just finds out about the plan, and that's how we get to the night Nora was killed.

@scouterv: No, don't be silly. He could have done something as simple as send him a delayed letter warning him of Reverse Flash.

When I first saw it, I could kind of rationalize it from an out of universe perspective: They can't really afford to reboot his entire life after they've spent their entire first season building it up. That'd basically be undoing the entire season and starting again from scratch. And then I really thought about it, and realized that wasn't an excuse: Barry would have went back and saved his mother, sure, but Eobard would already have exhausted himself and been stranded in that time. Which means he'd still become Harrison Wells, he'd still detonate the particle accelerator early, still take custody of Barry to make him the Flash, and basically the entire season would play out unchanged except Barry's father'd no longer be in prison and Barry would have had a happy childhood. Just not with Joe and Iris. Which means maybe they'd be together. Oh, and something would change with Eobard, since without the carrot of undoing his mother's murder, Flash'd have no reason to make a wormhole to send Thawne home.

Giving it further thought now though, I think I can kind of understand in-universe why he didn't save his mother: They spent the entire episode showing that Barry wasn't sure about this. Everyone else thought he should do it, but Barry himself was conflicted over changing his entire life and losing the life he had. Hell, he outright says to Iris he needs someone to tell him what to do. So at his friends' behest, he travels back in time to that night. And he see's himself, older, maybe a bit wiser, tell him no. To let what's supposed to happen, happen. So he does, and gives his mother a few moments of peace before she goes by telling her that it all turns out okay.

... Though that opens a whole new can of worms with Alt. Flash telling Present Flash not to intervene: Does he immediately recognize that it's himself from another timeline, trying to change what's going to happen? That implies he knows his mother is going to die, despite having no way to do so, since he comes from a timeline where none of this occurred.

Or does he perhaps see the red chest insignia and think it's a certain redheaded sidekick of his, older than he knows him, travelling back to help him, and tells him not to get involved, that it's too dangerous to fight Reverse-Flash? Kinda like that idea, personally, but it means Barry let his mother die due to a misunderstanding. Which'd suck.

... Yeah, f*** it. I'm onboard with you two: It's dumb.

...Nah. I don't see it.

@jonsmith:

... Yeah, f*** it. I'm onboard with you two: It's dumb.

HAHA. :D I litterally went through all of those thoughts and then came to the same conclusion: Nawh **** it, it's dumb.

@scouterv: I don't know if you've ever seen Eureka on the SyFy channel, but season 4 is basically how you are supposed to do an Alt timeline story. Some of the problems in this Season Finale can be fixed, others will remain dumb.

Nah. Can't say I've seen it.

I figure Time Travel is such an oddball thing to deal with, you can play it a number of ways so I'm not really bugged by it.

@scouterv: On the surface they seemed liked they didn't want to change much, at least not in a season finale, so they are either flat out guilty of not wanting to have to change a bunch of stuff or at the least guilty of being c**k teases and trying to save every last thing for season 2. Either way there was a lot of dumb stuff that happen. The Eddie Shooting himself with no consequences seemingly to the timeline & the non Mom Rescue are the 2 that standout the most.

so glad to know im not the only dude that teared up during this episode