If there's one thing the New 52 does it's getting people talking. There has been a level of excitement in seeing the changes and finding out what DC has planned for the characters. There is also the sense of confusion in wondering what has or has not happened. Some characters like Batman and Green Lantern have seen very little changes to their history. Other characters have been completely rewritten.

The New 52 was meant to be a soft reset for the years of continuity. It was all to be new reader friendly. Because of this, it's understandable that some bits of character history would be tweaked and other parts removed. The dreaded 'five years ago' also played a big factor in condensing major events in the characters' lives.

With the Teen Titans, we've seen that in the first year of the New 52, the decision has been made to change Tim Drake's current team from being a new incarnation of the team to being the actual first time there ever has been a group of Teen Titans. If this is the case, what does that mean for all the previous Teen Titans stories and characters?

The original Teen Titans consisted of Dick Grayson (as Robin), Wally West (as Kid Flash) and Garth (Aqualad). Shortly after their first appearance, they were joined by Donna Troy and Roy Harper. Looking at this roster, Dick and Roy are the only ones that currently officially exist in the New 52. Wally, Garth and Donna have not been seen or mentioned. We don't know if they actually exist or are simply somewhere else (which we refer to as 'comic book limbo'). Just because we haven't see the others doesn't mean they don't exist and they never had their adventures. Or does it?

The team continued in the late 60s and 70s with a couple cancellations to the series as well as new members when the series returned. Other characters such as Beast Boy, Bumblebee, Bat-Girl, Duela Dent and Hawk and Dove were either introduced or brought into some of the stories. It was the Marv Wolfman and George Perez series, THE NEW TEEN TITANS in the 80s that introduced Starfire, Cyborg and Raven as well as provided their biggest adversary, Deathstroke the Terminator.

Did any of these adventures happen? What about the epic story, "The Judas Contract" where Deathstroke has Terra infiltrate the team in order to utterly defeat them? Deathstroke doesn't appear to have any connection or interest in any of the members. Beast Boy has been re-introduced as part of the Ravagers. Cyborg's accident lead him straight to the roster of the Justice League.

In RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #6 we did get a tiny bit of hope. In a flashback to Jason Todd's return from the dead, he encounters Starfire for the first time. She mentions her memories were a little fuzzy but did allude to spending time with Dick and Roy as what we can assume a team of sorts. Dick was even shown wearing his blue Nightwing costume. This means some of the original Teen Titans adventures could have still happened. They could also have been on a team with Wally, Donna and even Cyborg. Maybe.

Just because characters such as Donna and Wally haven't been seen or mentioned doesn't mean they don't exist. DC has mentioned they are merely waiting for the right time and right stories to re-introduce the missing characters such as them. We can assume Beast Boy had no interaction with them from his appearances in 'The Culling' and RAVAGERS. Cyborg may be part of the Justice League but we get the feeling that team hasn't spent an enormous amount of time together. They still don't know everything about each other and may have only gathered together for the major threats. This could give Cyborg the opportunity to have adventures with others. Although, in the recent JUSTICE LEAGUE #13, we strongly get the impression he simply sits around the Watchtower alone.

Of course the current TEEN TITANS series guarantees that the last volume, all 100 issues, hasn't happened. At least those adventures haven't happened yet.

For those concerned about these past stories, it's been said that we still have our old copies and trades. We can live with the knowledge that they did occur for us back then. They are just no longer part of the current continuity. It's unfortunate that it has to be an extreme case of either the events happened or they didn't. It could have been left more ambiguous. We could have been lead to believe that there was a Teen Titans in the past without the specifics being told what issues did or didn't happen. With BATMAN and GREEN LANTERN comics, we can assume most things happened. By clearly stating that there wasn't a Teen Titans before pretty much wipes out the chance that the previous stories happened in any shape or form.

It's understandable that editorial may wish to step back a little and have this new Teen Titans be introduced to readers without a lot of baggage. It just isn't necessary to completely obliterate the history that all of the characters associated with the Teen Titans just to accommodate this idea. We can still hope that someday we'll find out more about the adventures Nightwing, Starfire and Arsenal had. It's possible some of the other former Titans were involved. Until then, we'll have to keep reading our old trades to make sure the stories are not forgotten.

I tried to read the article G-Man, but by the end, I was too ticked off by being reminded of the unnecessary changes. I've always liked the saying, "If it aint broke, don't fix it." There were a few specific things that were broken at DC before the reboot, but the reboot wiped out tons of stuff just in the name of change. Teen Titans is such an example.

@PsychoKnights said:

I tried to read the article G-Man, but by the end, I was too ticked off by being reminded of the unnecessary changes. I've always liked the saying, "If it aint broke, don't fix it." There were a few specific things that were broken at DC before the reboot, but the reboot wiped out tons of stuff just in the name of change. Teen Titans is such an example.

@ComicKID777 said:

@PsychoKnights said:

I tried to read the article G-Man, but by the end, I was too ticked off by being reminded of the unnecessary changes. I've always liked the saying, "If it aint broke, don't fix it." There were a few specific things that were broken at DC before the reboot, but the reboot wiped out tons of stuff just in the name of change. Teen Titans is such an example.

It's too bad D.C. is choosing to erase one of the brightest points in it's history.

The Wolfman/Perez run on the Titans was a high water mark.

I read a few of the New 52 issues, and they don't even come close.

They undid some of the best parts of the DC universe. I only like a few of the current DC books.

I want Donna Troy, and Lian Harper back and soon.

Yeah sadly Teen Titans is another example of something that was MUCH finer in the pre-Flashpoint reality and was completely revamped, and not for the better, in the current continuity. Just a sad reminder, even if for me the classic stories will always be canon in my mind, always.

I would like Donna Troy, and Raven back. I was even thinking they could age up Raven and make her part of Red Hood and the Outlaws, since they are sort of morally ambiguous and I think her whole struggle between the "two Ravens" so to speak would do better in that story.

As far as the erasure of the previous Teen Titans, they hinted to it definitely, maybe they'll say these kids got together randomly and fought some crime, formed some friendships, but never called themselves the Teen Titans, or some weak story, but if they don't want us to believe some incarnation of the teen titans existed pre-Tim's, they should consult their writers to talk to each other, and stop planting so many seeds! /end butthurt rant

update: http://www.comicvine.com/news/raven-returns-in-the-new-52/145277/, old but I didn't read it :[ wth, why didn't I read it! (meltdown), I might need to get into the Phantom Stranger, its just been sitting around while I catch up on Bat family. I hope her character can be integrated into a team or outside of Phantom Stranger, I'm not too interested in him or Spectre. but I'll see if its just writers and such.

I havent read any of the old teen titans,and if its as bad as the cartoon i'll never read it. Robin just doesnt seem as a leader to me, he was the robin doing crazy flip kicks, funny and chatty. Now Tim Drake is a leader! This N52 TT team just makes more sense, to me, no offense! I would like to see raven join the n52 TT, she seemed to have more of a personality other than the gloomy cartoon version. I only read TT n52 vol1 and I like it so far, and Tim, Super boy, and Wonder Girl are my favorite. It would be cool if Artemis didnt die in Annual #1

I think DC is so focused on their new vision for the future they have forgoten some of what made them great in the past. I have a friend who is a long time Teen Titans fan who has told me he feels betrayed that so many of the characters he loved are rotting in a kind of limbo not being used at all. I am not quite that invested in the characters but my own opinion is DC will not use Wally for a while because that opens up the whole flash debate and it is easier to use Bart Allen innTean Titans. I mean for me as long as I have been a comic book fan Wally has been the Flash and I just cannot bring myself to care about Barry the same way. I think Donna was left on the shelf because like Bart Allen it is easier to use Cassie as Wonder Girl rather than Donna because there is less fan expectation and Cassie was more reciently used in the previous version of the team prior to the relaunch/reboot.

This was, without a doubt, my favorite part of DC. I loved the Titans. (With the exception of the 90's reboot with new characters whose parents were aliens. If you don't remember, lucky you.) I have no problem with the reboot.It could be used for quite an exciting story. The problem I have is not with the missing characters, but with bad writing. If you think that if they had the old characters and the old memories this would be a good book, you are missing the fundamental problem with this book since new 52 started. The dialogue has been cheesy, the art has been "ok" at best, and every character has been struggling from the worst case of an "Identity Crisis." I don't mean the big DC event, or the teenage angst ridden existential question we all deal with growing up. What I'm talking about is a certain Scott Lobdell not sure how he wants to write the characters.

I loved Titans because of their naivete to fighting crime. We got to watch them deal with criminals and learn as they went. Because they weren't the big flag ship title they also were allowed to deal with real problems that they normally wouldn't deal with in the main titles.

You've got this clean slate to work with. Make the Titans a masterpiece again Lobdell. Otherwise, hand it off to someone who is ready to make them a work of art again.

Geoff Johns run on Teen Titans was what brought me into DC.

I really like Miguel - really, he's a fresh and new character but I miss the old Teen Titans. Their friendship was so amazing and now it's gone. DC ruined so many characters and stories I loved! What about Kid Devil? He was such an amazing character. He sacrified his life to save his friends. What about Raven? She's the hell of a character! Mia Dearden, Blue Beetle, Beast Boy, Rose Wilson ... they were all Teen Titans - well, DC tried to get some new readers but the fucked up with the old ones. I'm not really interessted in the comics anymore. I read the Teen Titans because of Miguel and Bart Allen (I really loved Conner, Tim and so on before the reboot) and the Superman comics because Jimmy Olsen is my favorit character but ... then. The only comic I am really excited for is Smallville Season 11.

@PsychoKnights said:

I tried to read the article G-Man, but by the end, I was too ticked off by being reminded of the unnecessary changes. I've always liked the saying, "If it aint broke, don't fix it." There were a few specific things that were broken at DC before the reboot, but the reboot wiped out tons of stuff just in the name of change. Teen Titans is such an example.

not only teen titans (though that is a huge loss) would've loved to see what more jeff lemier had planned for superboy when he was on the title. now that fantasy only exists in a parallel universe where there wasn't a new 52.

I don't get why everybody is so hang up on continuity and if some old stories happend or not? Except maybe for fleshing out the characters involved. But to that i just say read on and new history will be made.

I'm 36 so i've been reading comics for about 25 years now, some of you might not have been born when i started reading so why care about that history. Those stories are still around and you are free to pick up an old comic and read it.

I see people say that wolfmans run was their most favorite part in DC history. Well it still can be, it's not forbidden to still read these comics and enjoy them.

The only thing i'm upset with is that imo comic stories of today are not as good as they were back then. For instance, for me nobody has come close to Claremonts run on x-men and sadly thats a lot of stories that i didn't enjoy as much as i did back then.

I feel a reboot is good from time to time, cause these universes get really restricted on what writers can do with a character because of some story that happend 25 years ago. I still want a proper reboot for marvel right now. If i'm going to be reading about the same old characters when i'm 65 (lets face it people 25 years from now cyclops will still be in his thirties and leading the x-men), i'd really prefer a clean slate now and then so we can have some great stories that otherwise couldn't happen.

New 52 teen titans was so bad i lost interest halfway through issue 7 and insyead  went to do my maths homework! The previous 2003 series was what got me into comics, perfect mixture of light heartedness fun action adventurr and drama! young justice was another great series!(not the show)

The DCnU's timeline is so f**ked.

It's a real mess to figure this thing out in 5 years.

Really, it should be 10. Minimum.

@ccraft said:

I havent read any of the old teen titans,and if its as bad as the cartoon i'll never read it. Robin just doesnt seem as a leader to me, he was the robin doing crazy flip kicks, funny and chatty. Now Tim Drake is a leader! This N52 TT team just makes more sense, to me, no offense! I would like to see raven join the n52 TT, she seemed to have more of a personality other than the gloomy cartoon version. I only read TT n52 vol1 and I like it so far, and Tim, Super boy, and Wonder Girl are my favorite. It would be cool if Artemis didnt die in Annual #1

No it's nothing like the cartoon. The show was a parody of the comics. If there is anything that comes close it's the young justice series, the only thing the teen titans cartoon had in common with the comics is the name of the characters and the title.

New 52 Teen Titans sucks.

@InnerVenom123 said:

The DCnU's timeline is so f**ked.

It's a real mess to figure this thing out in 5 years.

Really, it should be 10. Minimum.

Agreed. And the funny is that I doubt it was even 10 before the reboot.

I may just pull out my old collection of Titans and reread them, for the sake of remembering how things were before the nothing came along and gobbled it all up. RIP Fab Five, new 52's been utterly dreadful to Dick and Slade when it comes to their history with the Titans.Deathstroke was the perfect nemesis for Nightwing... who knows if they'll ever cross paths again. :(

can't wait for the re-reboot!

I was introduced to the Teen Titans through their cartoon and I knew that was a far sillier version compared to the comics I saw in my local shop. That being said I didn't start reading DC until after New 52 and the only thing that has urked me thus far is the fact they try to shoe horn all of these events into a very narrow window of time. Both Marvel and DC such huge back stories that are changing it gets hard for new readers to step in. I admit at times even reading batman I am a bit lost since most of my knowledge came from the 90's cartoon and movies. I am excited to see when these characters come into play. As someone mentioned before it would be interesting to see Raven join the Outlaws.

@Eyz said:

can't wait for the re-reboot!

Its not like the Teen Titans are the only thing to be changed in the New 52

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

Its not like the Teen Titans are the only thing to be changed in the New 52

It is however one where DC has constantly gone back and forth on whenever it was a total or partial reboot meaning fans have been on a rollercoaster about it.

Thanks for the story and for this wonderful site. It's a great resource and very entertaining too.

One of the biggest surprises for me is that they're actually calling them 'Teen Titans'. I figured the 'Teen' part would be too silly for DC's super-duper extra-gritty New52-verse.

Comics until the 1980's remained largely unchanged. You could pick up any issue from any decade and with a little knowledge of the characters you could enjoy the story without asking a single question.

Reboots, re imaginings, retcons and other editorial changes, mutations and warp-spasms have made this pretty much impossible, chances are that if you didn't keep an eye on a character all these years you'll be lost if you pick up any random book. Books no longer feature self-contained stories, but are ongoing soap-like storylines designed and marketed to force you to buy a bunch of issues (preferably crossing over with other titles) or resort to buying trades.

And while Marvel's characters have remained somewhat consistent all these years, DC's continuity is a mayfly with a reduced lifespan. New 52 has been anything but consistent. Some characters have been completely refurbished, while others haven't changed a bit and their continuity is more or less intact, except that it has now been jammed into a period of about five years ... Batman hasn't had a chance to get out of his costume and have a shower, much less be Bruce Wayne by the looks of it.

While Marvel stumbles from one major crossover to the next, DC is suffering from the delusion that reboots will solve every problem, but it only creates more problems so they decided that another reboot is necessary which leads to another reboot and ...

I still say that this is a problem casued by the whole 5 year time plan and that the whole idea of erazing the past so that "new readers" can understand whats going on is a HUGE flaw. When i started reading comics it wasn;t becaue i though "oh this looks easy to get into" it was more of a case of "this looks like it has an interesting run and history". It was the previous continuity that gave a book a flavour and they made me go back and read those older stories. By erazing the past here DC has pretty much killed off any reason why people would go back and read the older stuff and pick up the trades. It's a huge flaw and i think that it's something thats going to have to be fixed with the companys next shake-up (despite Didio saying that so long as he's at DC we'll never see the previous continuity come back, or any elements of it).

So far the current Teen Titans title had been dull to me, and really lacks any proper characters but instead just has the shell of characters, opting for action rather than drama/character development.

...it seems most people are completely fu*ked in the head because they forget the billions of things before the reboot that were fu^ked up.And all/most of the things people complain that "suck" about the reboot are based on speculation and not facts.Even the facts show their guesses to be wrong.And most everything else is based on guessing.No cyborg was not part of the original titans,but I have a feeling that they will return.Especially with coming events.But everything in the old universe was overlooked,I guess that the old universe was so much better than the new one,maybe that is why it did so great in sales.I use to hate the new universe,but then I actually gave it a chance.I admit that some things I want to see more of,but with the hearings of people like miss martian,raven,aqualad,(etc) I learned to give it a chance.I just wish it went faster,but this new timeline is better and makes much more sense.The old timeline never made a fuc*s worth of sense but everyone ignored it until another crisis came and anti-monitor fixed issues of the timeline.Most changes are just so small that the complaining is just funny,"Dick grayson's has a hair sticking out.This new universe sucks."

Although some things of the new 52 are questionable,For one thing,why did they hire liefeld?

Why does anybody

But the tim drake never being tim's actual name and things like that were very bold. Definitely character

redefining,but hey,it's a bold move that I will take.They still give me the same character and personality,and they are left with a clean slate.As long as I get my character,I want to see what they do.I am actually going to give DC a chance.

btw,the new 52 is not 5 years in.The old universe was and nobody really complained about those things.

Great article G-Man,always love your articles.

But I love everything about the new 52.All of the so-called fallacies are not fallacies,just fan guesses that always turn out wrong.Common sense is that we will see the titans expand and the league expand,but everybody thinks that what will happen in 1 issue is permanent.PLEASE PEOPLE,WAIT!

all of the complaints are mediocre and not even worth mentioning,except some things.Like with tim drake,but as long as I get the same character,It is worth a shot.And people say that we are not getting our characters,but we actually are.The only problem is that the fans are not giving the new 52 a chance.The new 52 is delivering everything it promised,but you guys won't let it build up to those big moments.At every turn (please note,build ups lead to moments.So that means that there are going to be totally different things that will have to build up to those moments,twists and turns) people criticize and ridicule.Please give it a chance,(BTW sorry if my punctuation or things like that are hard to read.Kinda hard to focus).

Although I had the same feelings as everyone about the justice league.And it was so frustrating (because I felt that the story was getting nowhere) and I dropped the book.Although I dropped the book at the wrong time (issue 10) and now I see how awesome issue 13 is (and what it leads to).It was amazing.Although I have no clue what scott is doing.He promised that he will give us our characters (and everything like that).

And he is leading up to that.Some things I honestly have no clue as to what he is doing,But as long as he brings what he has promised.Then I am good,I want a fun story,and that is what I am getting.We all know (or should know) we are getting the titans and the league (when we previously thought otherwise and was proven wrong).We are just showing how we are getting from point A to point B.And I like this new timeline and story (altogether for the entire new 52).So please save your complaints about robotman not having a nose (why would a robot need a nose,to be reminded he is not human!)And save the complaint that the new 52 titans suck,the old ones had terrible moments as well.And so far I am seeing buildup for the return of all of those characters as the titans.Thanks for reading,please don't attack me with a 3 paragraph essay or whatever,but this is just my point of view.

The New 52 got me back into comics (both Marvel and DC, and now even Valiant) after about 15 years. IMO this was a much-needed change. Attitudes and perspectives need to change too. <3

I wish fan boys could have been rebooted with the DC reboot.

@Eyz said:

can't wait for the re-reboot!

I think if DC had any plans for the original Titans to be a factor, they would have mentioned it SOMEWHERE already. Again, the closest we are to any hint of them was in Red Hood and Outlaws, but that's it.

The 52 does seem to have a method to its madness, they will drop a clue, or hint at something happening in the past, then reveal it in later months.. i.e Green Arrow and the Justice League/ Black Canary and her past both are being answered IN JLA and Team 7. So the fact Wally and Donna have not even been mentioned tells me this isn;t happening

Gah the Teen Titans is certainly one of the major low points of the New 52. I know that DC editors have this whole baggage issue with the continuity in their universe but that continuity has built up a whole host of characters and adventures that the DCU is known for. And fitting that history into 5 years is absurd. 7-10 years would be far more acceptable.

Dislike the New 52 Titans. Maybe it just needs time.

Donna Troy will be back, she always comes back

Wolman and Perez' The New Teen Titans is simply my favourite run ever.

I do not hate the New 52 but I won't be reading their Titans anytime soon if they keep on not acknowledging the founders. The sense of family and legacy was one of the best things about this team.

I have been a Teen TItans collector since their original series (the first one I picked up from the newsstand was #28). I quickly grabbed the earlier issues, including Showcase and B&B appearances. I have a complete collection of Titans appearances.

And this new 52 take doesn't bother me at all. I read it, enjoy it. And I still have all the older material to read and enjoy as well.

No problem.

Just a thought...

Since The Flash is supposed to have some recollection of what once was and Batman has the note from his alternate timeline father and has concluded that his own existence isn't necessarily how things are supposed to be, perhaps Starfire is somehow retaining or acquiring memories of a continuity that used to exist, but no longer does.

@molotovzav: Raven is back. And so is her father, Trigon.

@Michiel76 said:

I don't get why everybody is so hang up on continuity and if some old stories happend or not? Except maybe for fleshing out the characters involved. But to that i just say read on and new history will be made.

I'm 36 so i've been reading comics for about 25 years now, some of you might not have been born when i started reading so why care about that history. Those stories are still around and you are free to pick up an old comic and read it.

I see people say that wolfmans run was their most favorite part in DC history. Well it still can be, it's not forbidden to still read these comics and enjoy them.

The only thing i'm upset with is that imo comic stories of today are not as good as they were back then. For instance, for me nobody has come close to Claremonts run on x-men and sadly thats a lot of stories that i didn't enjoy as much as i did back then.

I feel a reboot is good from time to time, cause these universes get really restricted on what writers can do with a character because of some story that happend 25 years ago. I still want a proper reboot for marvel right now. If i'm going to be reading about the same old characters when i'm 65 (lets face it people 25 years from now cyclops will still be in his thirties and leading the x-men), i'd really prefer a clean slate now and then so we can have some great stories that otherwise couldn't happen.

All I really care about is whether Garth will be in the New 52, and whether he will get respect this time. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

i trust scott lobdell

Thats what i actually like in comics, that they have some kind of different "era", some have continuity and some are not. but the good thing about it is that we can compare those era and tell stories about them differently.

I really hope a new Titans comic is created with Nightwing, Cyborg, Beat Boy, Donna Troy, Starfire and Raven at least! Add Wally too if it's possible and hell I wouldn't even mind Red Arrow or Jason Todd joining to be honest. It'd still be awesome

The lack of the old Teen Titans wouldn't bother me so if Scott Lobdell could competently write the current team. It's hardly readable the way it is now.

Besides the Death of a Family tie-ins, I really won't read the new 52 Teen Titans anymore. Such a disgrace, really.