I've heard off a few people that the reason for Pre-Flashpoint Superman coming back to the forefront in Rebirth is because New 52 Superman is seen as unpopular. I get that Pre-Flashpoint Superman was the version most people grew up on, but wouldn't that also apply to Batman and Wonder Woman? The three things that stand out for me about New 52 Superman are his lack of red underwear, his relationship with Wonder Woman instead of Lois Lane, and the 'Truth' story arc. Surely there's something I'm missing because I can't see why DC felt the need to further confuse continuity by bringing old Superman back to the forefront?

New 52 Supes' personality and the way he treated people bothered me. It felt like they took away boyscout part of his character and made him a hot head who could be a jackass at times. And then stuff like Superman Unchained doesn't help change that view of him.

Granted, that could have been fixed with character development. I think another problem is that Superman books haven't gotten enough quality writers over the years.

Basically after Grant Morrison left Action Comics (and a little bit during his time too going by other titles) Superman was written wildly inconsistently. And such inconsistency and no clear direction in terms of characterisation over an extended amount time is really off putting.

I hate the prospect of DC killing or de-powering, basically kinda writing off the new 52 Superman because there's a lot that you can do with this character building off from what's come before. Just recently Superman #51 is a testament to how you can characterise this superman a certain way and still tell a good story.

I thought he was good. I HATE the multiverse.

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: @kasino: @ultimatesmfan: @theexile285: @mattydavehalpeo:

I feel like New 52 Superman had a lot of potential that was just... Never tapped and because of that it lead to a lot of fans just... Not liking him all that much. I mean you have series like Superman Earth One which basically do the same thing New 52 Superman tried. A younger more inexperienced Superman for the modern age and while there are some who don't exactly LIKE Earth One's take on Superman? It's still moving forward to the Superman we all know and love and it's a great ride to see where that goes. New 52 Superman tended to... REALLY stagnate character wise and not always in a LIKABLE phase of stagnation. It's why when we got the CLASSIC Superman back in Convergence? We ALL flocked to him because we got a Superman we had been missing. And when Lois and Clark came around? We flocked there because again a Superman we had SORELY been missing.

Until recently I like both characters, after I learned about the rebirth of superman, I do not like that one replaces the other

As if DC would not have been enough cruel with truth, now settled in favor of another character.

The old version could be all noble you want, but at the moment I doubt they have made the right choice ..

• DC could not have another name with him as happened with Power Girl? Two Kara in the same universe and.. did not represent any problem for the another version. She was previously supergirl and not supposed problem.
• DC could invent the name of some Kryptonian god(God of peace/justice or hope) and give it, and hero again.. and everyone is happy, the character has evolved without interfering in things of this world...

I'm just mentioning an alternative, which may not imply problems among fans.

@mattydavehalpeo:

Well the title of this thread is kinda generalizing something that isn't quite that simple.

Some people had stopped reading Superman comics before the New52 and only restarted reading Superman comics because of the New52.

Many people were happy with Superman, before DC gaves us that radioactive poison called Truth. We can easily say that Truth, buried the New52 Superman in the ground.

And many more people know that there's nothing so wrong with New52 Superman that couldn't be fixed with good consistent arcs.

But there are also a lot of people that never were able to get closure from the pre-Flashpoint version. They simply refused to move on. Always criticizing New52 Superman just because.

Those people are the one's that were never happy. That from day one wanted nothing but New52 to fail, so they could keep themselves safely holding on to a character that basically hadn't evolved practically a inch in 25 years.

I for one was done with the pre-N52. I was done and I had closure. And I was for the most part happy with New52 Superman. Until the Ulysses arc. After that came Truth and all hell broke loose.

Then a little comic book came along during New52 Superman darkest times, called "Lois and Clark" based on the pre-Flashpoint versions of Superman and Lois Lane. And they used the sales numbers and the fact that it appealed to some people. To immediately undo the New52.

They used a cheap trick to convince themselves and some readers that moving backwards is the way to go.

Personally. I don't care about Rebirth. I don't see myself following Rebirth. If I could I would kill Rebirth before it was born.

But I'm just one guy. And this is the real world. And one guy can't change the world.

Plenty of people can. Thankfully never the deeply ignorant ones like you.

Being a father is no "backwards" development.

There are those who blame the character but the blame is of writers are those who do not handle things well.

As heavenlydarkdragon said, things went well until Ulises .. If it were not for Truth, there had been nothing wrong with Superman .. In Darkseid of Apokolips War he turned him half crazy but it's nothing compared to this saga.

No great run. Morrison did a bad Job, Snyder did a bad job, Perez can't write, Johns writes bad Superman, Truth was awful, Supergirl hated Superman, Other than Lobdell no one did anything good with the supporting cast, when the only good books are team ups with Wonder Woman Justice League Batman and I guess the Scott Lobdell run whats to like about him?

Wat?

The entire New-52 era was a bad experiment designed to make Superman undergo all sorts of ridiculous changes with the hope that one of them would eventually catch on and become popular. I can understand liking Nuperman but what I cant fathom is how anyone could justify his era. His entire support team was butchered, Lois was deliberately made unlikable, Jimmy and Perry were non existent players for the most part, Supergirl was just there, Superboy was gutted. Steel was literally the only character who survived the atrocity. Instead we got Superman/Woman, Truth and Doomed, at their core they all represent the same thing to me, a deep seated discomfort with everything that people recognize about Superman. We got half a dozen versions of Superman corrupted, there was no sense of continuity, no stable status quo, just throwing random crap at the wall and hoping it sticks.

Rebirth aims to bring Superman mythos back on track and restore his relationships and give solid footing to his world, that's what Superman needs more of.

Superman having a kid with Lois actually is moving forward, Superman becoming a monster is a disaster.

This is honestly the most accurate assessment of N52 Superman's run I've ever seen. I really really really felt like there was no time for me to get to know the character because he kept changing every 5 minutes in either a subtle or not so subtle way. But he never stayed still in one status quo. Especially in Truth where he basically told everyone to eat dicks. But that was honestly one of his best steps in any direction because as the arc came to a close we got to see him at least try to mend some fences and come to acceptance with his new life changes.

This right here, sums up everything I've felt about the New 52 Superman era perfectly.

New52 Superman is pretty awesome. He's younger, more modern, has more edge to him. But I think the 50 year olds continue to haunt these type of forums making it seem like the new Superman is unpopular. It's total bs.

"If it ain't the same it's bad."- 70% of users here. Lmfao

It's not even that though. It's that this Superman never had any solid characterization

More ageist garbage from a know-nothing millennial. Can't come up with a half-way decent and intelligent defence for your crummy FAILED version of Superman , so you seek to insult older fans.

Basically this.

People act as if n52 Superman was inherently just a bad idea but that is not the case. He was ruined by constant events, the editorial team(s), and certain writers. What's worse is that these same people believe that the return of post-crisis Superman will suddenly fix these problems when all evidence points to the contrary. IMO, we're just in for a big clusterf*ck until the next soft reboot/crisis. And hopefully, when that does happen, someone in charge will sit down and make Superman work across all boards and generations again.

Also this but I doubt Rebirth will fix anything unfortunately :/

I think if at least one of the N52 Superman titles had someone like what Scott Snyder did for the main Batman title, we might not be having this conversation. Every new arc seemed to bring about some big change to the Superman status quo and the writers never got his character spot on, that's why some portray him as some hot head and others as an extremely bland character. I was annoyed when the Supergirl title was canceled because at least the writers were fairly consistent with Kara's personality...

I'm looking forward to Rebirth, just hope that Pre-Flashpoint Supes doens't get the same treatment as N52 Supes from the writing staff.

Also, what's happening to N52 Lois? Isn't she even more of a spare part now that Pre-Flashpoint Supes is shacked up?

I think she becomes Superwoman.

Supermillennial was inherently flawed from the start. He was an aberration that lasted 5 years too long. Thankfully DC finally took pity and is putting him to sleep.

I find it funny alot of u guys are really forgetting how bad SM got before FP and to top it off N52 wasn't that bad before, let's say a couple issues into truth. If your going to enjoy Rebirth fine but it makes no sense coming down on another fan because of a difference in opinion.

If you need someone to blame for N52 blame the people that pushed for the reboot in the first place and then blame the writers and the editors for the mediocrity we got over the last five yrs.

I'm of the opinion things were never as bad as some pretend it was...with the exception of Grounded, but even that picked up.

What you say.. I would like to see Superman, more dynamic and modern.. the people complaining, people who spent years reading Superman, and do not accept that change.

IS UNPOPULAR WITH OLD FANS.

They were given the opportunity to see their old characters Pre-flashpoint in a series.. With low sales.. Why? according one person because he did not appear as Superman... Mans, this is another universe, one must accept that he is no longer Superman, the first and original Superman no have this opportunity, be happy of being able to have in this universe ..

But .. it is reasoning with someone from another generation about something you think otherwise... And now comes Rebirth.. They could not give more series and enough, everything of SM for he..

They want their old superman.. but the dynamics of Superman may not be the same with this, is of another world, can not be restored old relationships. With a superman from another world, that, will be the last to be recovered, his old live.

The same could be said about N52, well for the most part. It's not even like I hate PF SM, I'm quite fond of a lot of stories from that era, I simply don't like the potential they wasted with the reboot, but only time will tell what DC's plans are, this move is feeling a lot like a reign of the superman remake but who knows with them really.

Superman worked just fine for at least 10 years. His last few years sucked because they were getting away from what made him (and his supporting cast) so enjoyable in the first place. Jurgens is from that modern "golden age," and while technically his Superman is generally pre-FP Superman, he and Lois are implicitly written as the very popular triangle-era versions. So the crappy tail-end of pre-FP Superman's characterization is pretty irrelevant.

And if Supermillennial fans want to dish out the trash-talking, well then they can take it, too. Sorry your hollow little Elseworlds-esque version failed, kids. If you eat all your greens, maybe you'll grow up big and strong so you can one day join DC and bring him back!

@drocta said:

@stelios23 said:

I find it funny alot of u guys are really forgetting how bad SM got before FP and to top it off N52 wasn't that bad before, let's say a couple issues into truth. If your going to enjoy Rebirth fine but it makes no sense coming down on another fan because of a difference in opinion.

Superman worked just fine for at least 10 years. His last few years sucked because they were getting away from what made him (and his supporting cast) so enjoyable in the first place. Jurgens is from that modern "golden age," and while technically his Superman is generally pre-FP Superman, he and Lois are implicitly written as the very popular triangle-era versions. So the crappy tail-end of pre-FP Superman's characterization is pretty irrelevant.

And if Supermillennial fans want to dish out the trash-talking, well then they can take it, too. Sorry your hollow little Elseworlds-esque version failed, kids. If you eat all your greens, maybe you'll grow up big and strong so you can one day join DC and bring him back!

Thanks for this, the pic was appreciated as well, to your point of Jurgens and the Triangle era being the modern 'golden age' as you put it, Ha!.

As for all the name calling and stuff, well, you sure put me in my place sir. Now I know better and I'll be sure to eat all those greens.

Bad writing, flat character, shitty costume, non-truth, justice, American way-ish.

I loved New 52 Superman. I wish that version was still around.

You must love the taste of suck