@zariusii: Ohh you mean like how I want Darkseid to punch a hole in Supes chest,snap Wonder Woman neck,OB Green Lantern,and basically sh!t down Aquaman neck?!?

I am not a fan of rebirth and I agree with u.

Just stop reading, that's what I did

I will say though, to those saying he didn't sell, Superman Unchained was DC's top selling book for 3 months in a row

@captainmarvel4ever: I did drop AC (with a heavy heart) after seeing Perry White hugging it out with the old Lois. That was disgusting, forceful writing.

I've pretty much dropped all comics, albeit I was going to anyway and convert to trades, when Rebirth hit. I started getting sluggish with my reading after DC put out those three weeklies (of which I was getting two), and was basically just reading the Superman stuff. It sucks to see all of Grant's amazing set up go down the shitter due to bad managment and choices by writers, but thems the breaks. Honestly, aside from Greg Pak, no one else got what Grant was going for, they all wrote either stiff boring versions (Unchained), edgey badasses (Tomasi, Johns and Lobdell), or they just had no idea what they were doing and forced into an event (poor Yang). I think he shouldn't come back and that he can't anyway (because of the turd by the name of Jon). Maybe some day just like in the transition from the GOlden to Silver age, where the fans of the GA became writers in the SA, some fans could make a younger and more modern take on Superman work. Heck, I hope that I can one day make that Animated Series I've been toting on about. There's always hope I suppose

Which is pretty miraculous frankly since Unchained suffered constant delays as a result of Lee's artistic procrastination and personal life. Guess the big name talent kept some readers on board.

Wasn't Unchained kinda bad though?

And you aren't missed.

Best thing about this relaunch is you can pretty much separate the actual loyalists and appreciators of quality Superman from those who were only fans to a point. Didn't take long for them to break.

@blackdog2009 said:

A hug grossed you out? ROFL. Doesn't take much to push your Edgy buttons does it?

I used to praise it a lot when it first came out because it was the closest thing to a half decent Superman comic. In hindsight I think much less of it and at the time a lot of Superman fans who posted on the forums were disappointed with Unchained. So I guess it wasn't the best Superman comic.

Synder is a better Batman writer than a Superman one.

How is Jon a "turd?" (and what a surprise, another "classy" insult towards a development they're not personally comfortable with, I've come to expect nothing less from EW52 fans upset with change for the better)

Y'know as somebody who barely read Supes prior to Rebirth (aside from his best stories here and there) and with all the complaining of the N52 its really ironic that when DC finally nuts up, admits they f***ed up and tries to recapture that Superman magic people still aren't satisfied.

CLassy? Hilarious coming from someone who can't shut up with the constant trolling, even going as far to always go and troll the SM/WW thread whenever someone posts. Pot calling the kettle dude. ALso, way to get so butthurt over a massive post by 5% of a massive post that deals with many other things.

You want a real explanation why I called him a turd? Cus it's funny to act petty when I've obviously moved on. I could go onto talk positively about Jon so much that you'd think I love the kid, and that's just from a story telling stand point cus I've only see the occasional scan. So yeah, you need to chill.

Nice to see my one little comment draw this much attention like I guessed this morning when I left for work

@nerevarine_11 said:

Nah, other than a lack of being able to make a connection to Superman (which I don't mind too much since there are mountains of comics that can do that in spades) it hit all then marks of a really good comic (plus it took several jabs at MOS which is always good). Honestly if I could pick one Superman comic to flesh out a bit and turn into a movie, it would either be that one, or Superman for all Seasons (Unchained if you're going more Blockbuster, For all Seasons if you're going more slower paced character driven)

@zariusii: Seems it's also good for pointing out the ruder and much more anal fans who give comic readers a bad name

I stopped reading because I find the change to be a major contrivance even for comics. I just can't get into someone who's just there because the writers wanted to be lazy and get some shock value, rather than putting in effort. Besides this Superman has a lot of the same problems that Post-Flashpoint Supes did when he was being written poorly.

Not to mention it seems clear that this Superman more than any other is the one catering to fans who got in at a certain time.

While I may have gotten into Superman via the New 52, my favorite era of Superman is Pre-Crisis (which I consider the best DC continuity).

Unchained was Post Crisis Supes wrapped in Nuperman clothing, plenty of Nuperman die hards disliked it then and dislike it now. The only story Nuperman fans can really agree on is American Alien. Despite it not being about Nuperman, it's probably the standard for Nuperman stories. Even Morrison's run largely gets love because Morrison wrote Nuperman, that's all. If it was about Morrisons's ideas and themes the same people should logically love current Superman.

Tomasi and Gleason's Superman is a true successor to Morrison's work on Superman and DC generally, more so than Pak's.

@entropy_aegis: I was talking about his work on New 52 Superman. As for post Rebirth, I havent read much, but from the little I have I whole heartly disagree. The whole vibe Morrison was going for was young and a farmboy. Rebirth is neither of those. He's an older guy who's a father and a white guy.

EDIT- Also, IDK about anyone else, but speaking as a guy who actually grew up in a farmtown, Greg Pak nailed that in a way that I don't think I've seen anyone else do it. I like Grant, but I loved Pak's take on him personality wise. The first part of his Truth run on AC was still amazing... up until he turned everyone City COuncil into shadow monsters.

Comic book fans are fickle. Honstly this reminds me of the entire theme of the current season on South Park. Wanting to go back to the way things were or going for nostalgia but some people not falling for it.

But let's get serious for a second. I think the reason people aren't happy is mostly for the reasons Cap posted. They pulled this entire thing out their ass and now they are putting very little thought as to how they are going to make the piece fit, They are gliding on nostalgia, Atleast that's what it sounds like to me, I'm not really reading Rebirth Superman.

Dunno about bad , but it was really freakin boring. Story was boring, Lee's art sucked and the SUperman and Wraith in that story had the personality of a bag of turnips. Only time Snyder wrote any sort of wit was when he had Batman on panel.

That's because Morrison's Superman stories were set in the past or dealt with the past, he was after all tasked writing a new origin story and filling the gaps. Morrison never wrote a full fledged run with Superman at his prime. You can easily substitute that origin story in to current Superman and be done with it, frankly I believe that's what's going to happen.

Tomasi and Gleason are continuing Morrisons plot threads, using his ideas etc. Any true Morrisonist would appreciate that, his high concept ideas and imagination are what have made him a legend in the business, not depicting Supes as a young man. Supes is not a young man(,unless dealing with origin stories or one's set in the past) you've got Jimmy Olsen and Superboy for those types of stories. Same reason Batman has Robin/Nightwing.

I'm referring more to the personality since that's what matters to me the most when it comes to following a character. I can agree that Pak's work was never epic in scope or out there, but the heart of the character he nailed like no other. On few occasions I'll follow a story even though I hate the main character (One Piece being one of those stories). Also, the entire point of the New 52 was to start from the beggining and allow people to get to know the character, it's not like after Grant was done they jumped 10 years and said he's a fully grown man with tons of experience. There was still room to play with.

Writing the same type of stories that Grant wrote in terms of action/villains is a more shallow way of saying he's following what Grant had set up. Didn't you ever hear it's whats on the inside that counts?

Personality is never consistent, there are general traits that each writer follows but by large all writers depict characters differently. Neither Snyder nor King depict Batman's personality in the same manner Morrison did. Nor does Steve Orlando or Seeley(they're also Morrison followers).

DC wasn't willing to continue with young man Superman because that's what they have Superboy, Jimmy and Supergirl for. It was never going to be a permanent set up. Like I said short of origin stories and the occasional arcs that's never been Superman. Morrison established the characters backstory and left, the character was always going to be a middle aged man.

Asking for a young brash guy is shallow, nowhere did Morrison say that Superman should be permanently written like that. Now he did say that he introduces plot threads in his stories that other writers can make entire ongoing books out of(specifically Multiversity). That's exactly what Tomasi and Gleason are doing, continuing his narrative. Morrison is the same guy who spent his entire tenure on Batman moving him away from gritty crime and darkness, no way would he ever advocate for Superman to be a young,edgy hipster who bangs Wonder Woman.

Actually it's not shallow at all since the personality and actions that most writers made him take are why they hated him. Plus, way to dumb down what Pak made him and completely misrepresent him to make your point. Being a Farmboy is not him being edgey you Baka! Landis is the one that made him a Hipster. But I guess I can't be too mad, your one of the many that don't know what farmboys act like. Plus Pak almost never really dealt with him and WOnder WOman, but it's hilarious that you've turned that into a negative to suit your narritive. What are you Fox News?

As for that's never been Superman, it's a new era. Every generation has been different from the last. Morrison wanted to fuse all three eras into one. That is bound to make him feel different. Unfortunately writers equated young with being brash and angry. Morrison also said that they wanted him to make him like Batman, but MOrrison made it work. People like TOmasi took that too seriously.

@nerevarine_11 said:

Y'know as somebody who barely read Supes prior to Rebirth (aside from his best stories here and there) and with all the complaining of the N52 its really ironic that when DC finally nuts up, admits they f***ed up and tries to recapture that Superman magic people still aren't satisfied.

They're a minority, most fans welcome superman getting back his iconic personality, turning superman into a douchebag was even worse than making Lobo a serious guy. That would be like marvel turning deadpool into a Batman wannabe and punisher into a pacifist.

Pak wrote a largely hit and miss run that was hijacked by crossovers, hardly a standard to follow. Morrison was the definitive voice, his run was the standard and that's why I'm focusing on him. I like how Priest writes Batman but I'm not going to use him as the authority on Batman. As for farm boys, I'm pretty sure they dont act in a universal manner, I'm damn sure that an Indian farmer would act very differently from an American farmer. Your insight is mostly useless, for all I know that's how you want to act and saw Nuperman as your idealized fantasy.

Yet Tomasi makes Superdad work hmmm, wonder why... I'll tell you, it's because Nuperman was an editorial product. No writer asked for him, DC pandered to a bunch of disgruntled fans who wanted Superman to be more like Batman and to date new chicks and look young blah, blah. That's why writers couldn't get him, not when the editor is breathing down their necks demanding that Superman be made "not boring".

COmparing Pak and Grant is ridiculous. Grant was one of the few writers in the New 52 (Azzerallo being an other) who was given full power (aside from a few suggestions) to do what he wanted. It's like comparing the manager of a store to the cashier. As for the misses when it came to Pak, it was mostly events (he was more abut character moments during Doomed and 4 issues of Truth were amazing. BM/SM events sucked).

I was joking when I was comparing you to Fox News, you don't have to really use their maneuvers dude. *sigh*, I could go into my credentials as a better expert when it comes to farmboys and dismiss this notion of using a farmboy from a totally different country, but I really don't care if you believe me nor does it matter at the end of the day since he's dead. But keep calling him an edgey hipster cus somehow you're an expert on those.

WHen referring to New 52 Superman we're talking about what Grant had made and how all other writers (except Pak) failed him. New 52 Superman was completely created by Grant barring a few editorial suggestions (mainly that he's not with Lois). So while I agree that Edititorial messed everything up, he's not an editorial creation. I think the reason he's making him work is because he's familiar with this version and mainly because DC learned from their mistakes and is truly giving them their space to do what they want. DCYou even though toted on about as this, forced the writers into an event (poor Yang).

Well, as someone who isn't a Superman guy, I am now thanks to this series! I read issues 1-5, and I really enjoyed them! It's just what I wanted out of Superman book! I love Superman! Is it okay that I missed the one shot? I just want to know if it's worth the price to pay shipping online.

I'm hoping we'll get this type of book with Wally West, Linda, and their kids! Although, I want a Grant Morrison to take another crack at Wally. That would be a dream book!

Perfectly okay. It serve as an epilogue to The Final Days of Superman and a prologue of Rebirth. But nothing significant happens.

Morrison said he would like to do Flash. But he wanted to do Barry.

Phew! Thanks! I don't know anything about the Final Days of Superman, so I'd probably be paying a lot just for a few panels.

Hmmm...maybe Morrison would change his mind if Wally wore his Kid Flash suit. lol

I really liked Barry during the Trial of Barry Allen, but I wasn't really a fan of him when Geoff Johns started with the memory wipe stories and his origin changes. I'm sure I'd really like whatever Morrison does with him though!

Rebirth Superman is what got me interested in the character again to be quite honest.

@transformers1024: get the hell out of here!

@entropy_aegis: YOu know what... no! I gotta say dude, that this has to be the third time that you have to make up some alternate scenario to suit your narrative. This one being the most egregiousbecause of what your calling me a liar for. Like, it's not like we were mad at eachother and I said I was gonna kick your ass cus I'm a navy seal, or we were debating about who gets more chicks and I throw out that I slept with a playboy bunny, I only said that I lived in farming towns so I know what farmboys are like. You could just ignore it and say it doesn't matter, but the fact that you had to call me a liar over something so benign at this point just makes me grin. You don't have to believe me, but just take a moment and breath in the ridiculousness of it all

Good thing I never compared Pak with Grant. I said Morrison is the standard not Pak and therefore Pak shouldn't be used because he had a few high points and plenty of bad ones, editorial or not he wrote those comics and it reflects rather poorly on Nuperman if his second best run was hit and miss.

Sure Mr Joker, moving on.

I call him an edgy hipster because that's what DC wanted me to believe, but yeah I agree, they couldn't even get that right.

Yes, he's an editorial creation, Morrison on Action came out of nowhere, the man was busy writing the final stages of his Batman run and had a slew of pending projects like Multiversity and WW:Earth One.

Long story short, Nuperman was an editorial product and that's precisely why the editorial interfered so much during that period. If left to the writers Superman would have reverted back to the Post Crisis characterization, relationships etc, except with a new backstory. The editorial didn't want that, they wanted to make sure the edgelord remained the edgelord.

Never called you a liar, I said that your experiences are your own.

He had more high points than low points, but that's an other discussion on it's own. Pak only failed mostly when it came to events. And while I agree that writers have to be held somewhat accountable, anyone can tell you that when your forced to do something, your job suffers for it. But notice how DC is basically hands off currently with their writers? That itself is telling that they know that events have been a problem.

Edit- You did compare them dude. But you brought up the fact that Grant wasn't bogged down by crossovers. NO freakin duh dude! I said why that wasn't that case. It's not fair to compare the two because one run was given all the space to do what he wanted. just like Azz.

Assumption on your part. Morrison did a shit ton of world building and planned everything very intricately to lead up to his finale 18 issues later (way more work than what Multiversity and Earth One combined). That's not just something he does without a purpose and considering how long his run went uninterrupted, it was all him. Even writes complained when given no information as to how his run was going to be so they had an idea as to what to do.

No, you just don't know what a hipster or a farmboy is. So you're just a confused when it comes to social personas.

I would agree that New 52 Superman is a summation everything including all the editorial management, but that to me is outside of what Grant and Greg Pak did. It sucks that things got so messed up, and I understand why DC did what it did, but that doesn't change that they shot themselves in the foot.

By long story short, you mean an other general assumption on your part? I think I'll pass on that story. I've got my own theories, but it's no uses saying them since we'll jsut be going back and forward, and we've strayed far away from the original topic anyway.

Never called you a liar, I said that your experiences are your own.

Very well, I read it wrong. Point stands that I've lived in both a Mexican farmtown and currently live in Kansas (you know, that state where he lived) where i've come face to face with quite a few farmboys. And I can tell you that the only difference between a Mexican Farmboy and a Kansas Farmboy is the music and the language. Can't say much about an Indian Farmboy, but I rreally don't have to as that's a non factor.

I don't watch sports, drink beer, know anything about cars, how to take care of a farm, too scared to fight or like country music. All things I'd associate with a farmboy, so that's a wrong assumption on your part.

I really like Jon, but some of you are acting like the Superman title is award winning stuff.

It's an alright read, but the dialog sometimes seems like Superman is a robot.

I like the attempt to make him more personable and human, but, outside of Jon's voice, the book doesn't have much working for it.

@superguy1591: Been a while since I've seen you dude

I guess I can see where peeps are coming from.

You have this awesome dog. Its a nice dog, good around people, cute, endearing enough to make you want to be around it and ....then for some reason you lose it. It wasn't your fault nor was it the dogs, but you lose it.

Then the dog you originally had gets replaced. Sounds awesome right...another chance? Its the same breed, but the dog is loud, annoying, contemptuous and unappealing in every form in comparison to most dogs you know, but for 5 years you learn to love it despite the overwhelming flaws that make you want to cast it aside for an objectively better dog. Somehow it becomes endearing despite all of it. Maybe its insanity? Who knows.

Then the old dog comes back. But your parents shoot the other unappealing dog to make room for the one you originally loved. In your heart, you know the dog that you had for 5 years was truly a waste of time, and it may as well have been. But despite having the original dog you truly have more love for, you still want the other dog...the horrible one. The one that was the same breed, but still horrible in almost every form.

Wow you came up with a pretty accurate analogy for the state of Superman over the past 5 years. This probably is how the New 52 Superman fans felt, well the ones who were familiar with the previous Superman anyway.

@superguy1591: Except for the family dynamic, the consistent depiction of Superman compared to his New 52 interpretation, Superman being both a father and mentor to Jon, each title having its own independent stories rather than event crossovers, a solid reinterpretation of old villains like Eradicator and the presence of what's that word, oh yes fun. There's only all that going for Superman comics right now. Afraid you're in the minority, a lot of people are enjoying Superman right now.

Indeed.

Morrison said he wanted to do it as heavy science fiction love story about a scientist who goes faster and faster. He said his favorite as a child was the Flash. So I expect it will be a love project, if he actually does it.

I should have known better than to comment on this. I'm actually been trying to avoid coming down on Rebirth, since

A) Not even reading it

B) Just don't feel like being that prick

I honestly think my comments are fitting the criteria. But some of ya'll nerds just gotta learn to take it easy.

I think Grant Morrison's own words and meta-references speak of themselves on N52 Superman's intention:

His whole arc run around the idea that out there capitalist powers try to turn Superman into an "angry brooding violent anti-hero", and SuperDoom was the result. Right up to the point that Grant himself said that N52 Superman isn't his Superman, but President-Superman is.

If your main writer goes that far as to criticize the editorial and deny the character, you have to rethink your position.

If you're not even reading it, you can't judge it's merits at all and have no business being a part of this conversation. You're just desperately looking for an echo chamber and finding nothing of the sort because us 'nerds' actually DO read the series, DO enjoy it, and have the knowledge to defend it.

I think the consistency of the quality, the factor of giving people what they want and the fresh direction (in a good way) make it a great read. A solid 8/10 as a whole.

You might be estranged because there is no narration as you have been used to with N52 Superman, so you don't get his reactions right in the face. But I actually think it works for the best. Superman's thought can never be exactly captured. Actions should matter more with Superman.

And his reactions in SUPERMAN are great imo. He has great range. He has very subtle reactions, very stoic and though full. For example, in the first issue, he knows Jon burned the cat but he still doesn't say anything and only asks him to help, when Jon refuses we get a small panel of Clark being sad and trying to see what he can do about the situation, Its subtle but it gives of the right amount of feelings. Or picking up the American Flag in the moon. And also sometimes we get over the top reactions that just work, for example, his overprotective parent moments, sad moments like living Storm behind, his "brothership" with N52 Superman.

I've yet to see Aquaman, Flash, Cyborg, Batman, Wonder Woman (who is now back with Steve T.) and many others, properly MOURN and feel the death of their one true team mate. You know, the guy that was key for them to form the JL!! Instead they have all just casually brushed off the death of New 52 Superman and conveniently accepted that there's a new Superman around, from another alternate universe.

Uh, yeah. Holy crap. This is what bothers me. The League's reactions to his death are so shallow and generic, it's like the writers are looking to avoid the subject altogether.

And Batman "We don't trust him. So we should invite him to the Justice League." COME ON.

If you wanna scrap the post-Flashpoint universe then scrap that universe. But don't replace certain characters with their pre-reboot selves. That just has messy written all over it.

To satisfy people you not only require good ideas, but also a way to execute them well.

@saintwildcard: traveling a lot.

@lvenger: I've always been a minority in the N52 v PC Superman debate.

I'm glad you older fans got "your Superman back," I just wish he would adapt.

That sounds wonderful!

Oh, and would you recommend Action Comics? It's odd for me because the Superman universe is the only section of the DC Universe I find interesting right now. I love individual DC characters though! I'm a Batman guy, and I just care about Batman, Damian, Nightwing, and Alfred. I don't even read the previews for the other series because the Batman Universe seems dull to me right now, unfortunately. I'm only reading the current Tom King Batman for Bane.

I'm happy for Superman fans....which means I'm happy for myself!

I would recommend the new arc, that started this week with Action #967. The previous issues were just clean up and status quo setting. This is imo where the actual story starts. If you like these plots I will summarize now, then you will like the title: Lex considering himself N52 Superman's successor, Lois returning to the Daily Planet to investigate a Clark Kent that doesn't remember he was Superman, Mr.Oz who stole Doomsday, and lastly Lex's role as Darkseid's successor.

Have you read Rebirth Nightwing and Detective Comics? I have read NW and I hear great things about Tec'.

@superguy1591: I'm more glad that I have a well written Superman back, it happens to be a version I also really like. There needed to be one single Superman after DC brought the older one back into current continuity and the New 52 one wasn't doing well. I know the one we have isn't for you but clearly DC trying to make an adaptable Superman as you say was not working out well enough. Editorial trued to make him adaptable and more accessible as you said and look how that turned out.

Uh...that sounds awesome! When did Lex become Darkseid's successor? That's so cool! Lex Luthor and Darkseid are my favorite villains besides Bane and Deathstroke, so I'm excited now!

Yes, I am reading Nightwing, and it's great! I really love it. I haven't read any of Detective Comics. I've heard great things too, but I'm just not a fan of any of those characters. Chuck Dixon's Batman is my jam, but I've moved on from Tim, Steph, and Jean-Paul after the New 52 started changing stuff. Once Zero Year became the basis for the current Gotham, it kind of lost it's appeal. I'm reading Tomasi's work as continuation of what I loved.