Does he have any confirmed on-panel feats that his combat speed is FTL? He has shown on-panel that he can fly FTL, and it was written as well (some instances I can think of are when Batman talked about him accelerating to light speed when he flew into the shadow moon, and one when he escaped a black hole), but out of all the instances I have seen of his combat reaction speed, it does not state that he moves FTL. Does anyone have any scans that state his combat speed is FTL? If there are none, we can solely rely on assumptions to make this conclusion, and I don't like relying on assumptions. I like facts.

" @Noobasaurus_Rex    In terms of raw speed he can move ftl, but i doubt his combat speed is FTL since WW noted that her reflexes are faster than Superman's. "

" @velle37 said:

" @Noobasaurus_Rex    In terms of raw speed he can move ftl, but i doubt his combat speed is FTL since WW noted that her reflexes are faster than Superman's. "

I wonder, though, exactly how fast he is. In combat speed, would he be massively hypersonic like DBZ characters?  Also, I don't think Wonder Woman has shown to be FTL in combat speed as well. Just because she is faster than him reflex wise, that doesn't mean that her reflexes are FTL. "

" @Noobasaurus_Rex said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Noobasaurus_Rex    In terms of raw speed he can move ftl, but i doubt his combat speed is FTL since WW noted that her reflexes are faster than Superman's. "

I wonder, though, exactly how fast he is. In combat speed, would he be massively hypersonic like DBZ characters?  Also, I don't think Wonder Woman has shown to be FTL in combat speed as well. Just because she is faster than him reflex wise, that doesn't mean that her reflexes are FTL. "

 All the more reason Superman wouldn't be..... If she's faster then him, and she's not ftl....  Hypothetically............ "

" @velle37 said:

" @Noobasaurus_Rex said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Noobasaurus_Rex    In terms of raw speed he can move ftl, but i doubt his combat speed is FTL since WW noted that her reflexes are faster than Superman's. "

I wonder, though, exactly how fast he is. In combat speed, would he be massively hypersonic like DBZ characters?  Also, I don't think Wonder Woman has shown to be FTL in combat speed as well. Just because she is faster than him reflex wise, that doesn't mean that her reflexes are FTL. "

 All the more reason Superman wouldn't be..... If she's faster then him, and she's not ftl....  Hypothetically............ "

Mach 5 is faster than Mach 4. Does that mean Mach 4 is slow? Not at all.  You get my point? "

" @velle37 said:

" @Noobasaurus_Rex said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Noobasaurus_Rex    In terms of raw speed he can move ftl, but i doubt his combat speed is FTL since WW noted that her reflexes are faster than Superman's. "

I wonder, though, exactly how fast he is. In combat speed, would he be massively hypersonic like DBZ characters?  Also, I don't think Wonder Woman has shown to be FTL in combat speed as well. Just because she is faster than him reflex wise, that doesn't mean that her reflexes are FTL. "

 All the more reason Superman wouldn't be..... If she's faster then him, and she's not ftl....  Hypothetically............ "

Mach 5 is faster than Mach 4. Does that mean Mach 4 is slow? Not at all.  You get my point? "

wonder womans reflexes are better cause of mucles memory where as superman though his were better cause. depends on whos writing the character some supermans have 10 times the speed of thought reflexes while others nanosecond thinking speed

Why does only her muscle memory mean she's faster? If all my speed came from pure muscle memory to would I be faster then Clark to? Not even close.

He's not faster in the comics that what you can see in the cartoons or the movies.

Except all those times that he proved he was.

Scans

ftl

@realitywarper:

Super Speed

• True Super Speed explained

• More explaining of his super speed, Desaad is a scientist and has studied Superman's speed. His travel speed = reaction speed. If a character can perform mundane tasks at super speed, clearly they can react at there travel speed.

Supes possesses true Super Speed, as such he does a lot more than just goes fast

Reaction Speed

• Poor A man dressed like a bat

• Very High fighting speed. Fighting mid conversation, it is entirely possible that it is ftl, but no real proof.

• Rebuilds a city at FTL speeds

• High speed combat

• Reacts in super speed

• Fights Mongul using speed, also Mongul trained Superman to allow him to remove his blocks so he could go all out.

• Fights an Imperiex probe with speed

• Reacts to nanosecond event. A man dressed like a bat once estimated his reaction time frame to be a zeptosecond.

• Blitzes a robot

• Blitzes Doomsday

• A perk of true super speed, time slows down to a literal crawl, this allows enhanced reactions.

• Can apparently measure the time between nanoseconds

• To support this claim he has actually had a conversation in a fraction of a nanosecond

• Not really a feat, but he insinuates that he can react in a femtosecond

• While being mind controlled, he easily blocks Wonder Woman's sword swings. This wasn't technically Wonder Woman though. It was J'onn Jones posing as her.

• Defeats Lobo with a few super-speed punches

• Blitzes Ultraman and hits his vulnerable pressure points

• Blitzes Darkseid to the sun in very little time

• Blitzes Zod and Ursa, two kryptonians

• Some more combat blitzing

• Superman is closely matched in reaction speed to Wonder Woman. For reference some Wonder Woman feats

Molecular Vibration

• Pulls a Flash by vibrating his molecules when passing through someone

Phasing

• Phases his body through Doomsday's blows

• Phases through Mongul and Mongal's (I know WTF!) attack

• Phases the entire Earth

• I suspect Flash told them how to do the phasing

Invisibility

• He vibrates his molecules so that he becomes invisible

• Supergirl does it as well, they learn these fancy moves from the Flash

Travel Speed

• He flew from Vega to earth in a short amount of time. Vega is many light-years away.

Thought Speed

• Is able to trace signals moving at light speed

Speed n52

• Surprises the Flash

• Younger self illustrates he has true super speed

• His brain works fast enough that he can work/react in super speed, also an intelligence feat

• Gets in outer spaaaaaace in what seems to be a second

• Moves from his apartment to a construction site in an instant. Essentially teleporting.

• Flies from Pluto to Earth in seconds

• Swims fast enough to create a vortex

• Reacts FTL

I'll find my collection for you then post some. Pre-reboot or current?

@comicstooge:

Current, of course.

@rpgesus:

I already know that respect thread and Superman didn't display anything more impressive than Thor did.

To explain the way I see it with more precision.

My general behaviour towards Superman's speed in a fight is that people mix-up the ability that Superman shows when he bullrush with the capacity to fight at really high-speeds.

To summarize, imagine a Knight charging on his horse : that's the movement bonus that Superman beneficiate in a fight with more manoeuvrability and the ability to spam it on short burst of speed to stay close to his opponent...

That means that Superman has a great ability for the hit & run has he can easily remove himself from a fight or engage his opponent at will if he isn't restrained.

In terms of attack rate (the number of punch that Superman can deliver) and about his ability to block / parry / dodge attacks I don't see him so far from the street-levelers.

Superman has of course the advantage to have a fast brain speed (enhanced time sense) that allows him to react / analyze fast the threats that he is facing and to take decisions in a short amount of time.

What is your opinion about it ?

I've barely read any New 52 Supes so I can't say much regarding him.

@realitywarper Sorry to interfere , Who made that ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Supes combat speed : FTL+

I don't remember the Pre-52 being so fast too.

I mean.

I'm a big big reader of all kind of comics (I mean comic books, mangas, "bandes dessinées") and I think that people tend to misunderstand the speed.

If you looks at the mangas, it always been cultural to have very very fast fighters :

If you look at some movies involving samuraïs, the movies are built around the idea of characters that can throws and block attacks at superhuman speeds.

Those samuraïs movies, called chambara, usually focuses on sword fighting : usually the characters can deal with large group of ennemies just by running in the group and delivering several swift strikes or / and avoiding attacks with acrobatic moves.

Comic Books usually shows characters being able to travel fast or making short burst of speed but not fighting at crazy speeds.

The mangas emphasizes the chambara style even more by showing characters exchanging blows at speeds far too fast for the human eye to be seen and sometimes with the power greed it becomes even more crazier than that.

Well, I know that my description lacks of precision but the idea is here.

Nope.

What makes you think that fight at FTL+ speeds ? oO

You do realize that he should be invisible for other characters and even stomps the Flash at this point ?

He can and react FTL ! - alright we both know that his travel speed is M-FTL !! right ? if he can't react at those speed's why can he travel at those speed's ? he should have crushed into a planet or asteroid's ? .. etc Regardless he hold's his speed back most of the time .

He can and react FTL !

You can't say that a character can react FTL, that's inappropriate.

The reaction time is measured in milliseconds and is the time that needs the nervous message from the spinal cord to reach the limbs for exemple.

reaction time

1.

- alright we both know that his travel speed is M-FTL !! right ?

Thor can do it too with his hammer.

It doesn't mean that he can move at FTL speeds in a fight.

Moreover he needs to accelerate a lot to reach is top speed when he is flying.

if he can't react at those speed's why can he travel at those speed's ?

Misconception.

I explaiend this in my first point.

he should have crushed into a planet or asteroid's ?

-_-

.. etc Regardless he hold's his speed back most of the time .

Not really.

There is just a general misunderstanding on the speed in the battle forum and that's not new.

He can react to FTL, so basically he's FTL.

Isn't most of Supermans power will based? It's mostly brain over brawn. So technically he can will himself to be as fast as he needs to be. Assuming he's had enough sun first.

@realitywarper: Listen bro am not trying to argue here supes speed is literally a bit underrated , but there no misconception's about superman holding his speed back ! "I'll explain that later , heck i replicated that in multiple thread's" , now am gonna address to a :

Screw attack vid ? Remember Vega speed feat ? they were actually right in saying that it doesn't have a specific time-frame. The video would've been better off featuring the Andromeda feat from Infinite Crisis, during which two Supermen managed to fly from Earth to Krypton in a short time-frame, speed-blitzing Superboy-Prime through a Red Sun. Wiz and Boomstick briefly mentioned this feat in terms of durability, but not for speed:

Krypton, at this point in time, was located in the Andromeda Galaxy circa Superman: Birthright, 2,538,000 Light Years from Earth's Solar System.

...and though the time-frame of the feat remains not well-specified, the conversation between the Supermen and Superboy-Prime implies that the entire feat happened in a matter of moments - this is further reinforced by the fact that, just mere days after the fight happened, Superman was back on Earth, being interviewed regarding the event:

Even assuming that the travel time took 48 Hours, which is ridiculously low-balling the feat, that still means that Superman was travelling at 463,185,000 times the Speed of Light while fighting Prime. Also, if we'd take Final Crisis into account, Superman could negate Time Dilation and evidently surpass "Instant" speed:

-_-

A face palm would've been better , unfortunately am immune to face palm's :P... Seriously i had point there .

Not really.

There is just a general misunderstanding on the speed in the battle forum and that's not new.

How is that ? He had been damn casually running at Mach 9350 and he actually had to limit himself to those speeds because he has to be careful about the effects that he has on his surroundings, such as Sonic Booms:

The Flash doesn't have this same problem due to the Speed Force, which can absorb generated Kinetic Energy, nullify Sonic Booms and redirect other speed-based effects away from himself and others. Superman doesn't have the Speed Force to rely on, however, so he needs to be cautious Regardless those shockwave (Sonic booms) happens to hit can be accelerated into makeshift peices of shrapnel (Wood, Stone, Plastic, Metal, ect...) that can easily tear through the body and produce hydrostatic shock, even further causing internal damage:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2733763

"The compression and suction phases of blast dynamics manifest as shock waves and displacement waves respectively. The effects of a shock wave depends on the explosive charge, the distance from the explosion and the terrain and surroundings. Spalling, implosion, inertia and pressure differentials are mechanisms by which injury may be inflicted to the human body, especially to the gas containing organs. Displacement waves cause light objects to become high velocity missiles which may cause lacerations or penetrating wounds."

Keep in mind, too, that this would be affected by Superman's distance to ground level while flying, as well - Fighter Jets that are able to fly at Supersonic speeds have been seen as breaking the Sound Barrier relatively close to civilians, but only do this at low Mach Speeds and, typically, only at higher altitudes. Much of a Shockwave's power has to do with the amount of air that it displaces, and moving that fast at a higher altitude means less air to displace. A Fighter Jet that reaches Mach 1.4 at 20,000 feet above ground level, for example, isn't going to have nearly as powerful a Supersonic Shockwave or as loud a Sonic Boom as Superman reaching Mach 10,000 at 5,000 feet above ground level.

For the holding back stuff credit goes to a friend :P .

Should i post the scan were supes was fighting wonder woman from the earth to the sun in matter of second's ?

Peace , If you disagree it's fine .

Post Edited

@thebestofthebest: None of this makes him able to fight at lightspeed.

Well if you say so - His fight with wonder woman would make him FTL Then ? but hey , i have a substantial recommendation and intention how about :

To agree to disagree

I think that considering Superman's speed at least Superhuman in a fight is more accurate (Spiderman is at superhuman speed) but I don't think that he is above.

@realitywarper: What does spider-man have to do with this?

I'm searching a measuring stick to compare Superman's ability to fight at high speed.

As an experienced RPG reader and player I think that the term of "combat speed" isn't precise enough.

I guess that we need some way to deal with every settings in a fight that involve the way that the characters fight.

@realitywarper: Supes still FTL+ if you ask me / his speed is way way a head of spider man speed d hell ? .

Still not FTL+...

He wouldn't be tagged at all by other characters... Even the Flash.

@realitywarper: Flash is FTL if he want to go MFTL as well as superman Regardless He hold's back his speed a looooot / wait i don't get your first sentence of your previous post ! did you compare spider man speed to superman speed ?

Flash don't fight at FTL speed usually.

The difference between Flash and Superman is that the Speed Force counters more of the negative effects of the speed, even then he usually fight at speeds far below the speed of light.

Yeah I did compare them

Clark tag Barry because he anticipate his last move thanks to his brain's speed : that's a combat skill feat = timing feat.

@realitywarper: 1)I already mention that above "Your first sentence" 2) Both of 'em were inexperienced back then "The very inception of their showing" so that shouldn't actually count as a speed feat.

@thebestofthebest: Superman doesn't fight at FTL+ speeds, I don't even see why we are debating it.

@realitywarper: We're not debating , yes he can .

Nope.

Only in fan-fictions.

@realitywarper:OKay

superman's combat speeds suffers from the same thing that the flash's does. if they both fought at their maximum they would be darn near unstoppable. sometimes superman will have faster than light speed. the next time he gets hit by street levelers. pre nerfed superman has fought ftl. he just can't do it all of the time because there will be no plot. it will be pretty boring for superman to just fly in and knock out his foes in under a nanosecond.

@thebestofthebest: Ignore him.

@mercinwithamouth said:

@thebestofthebest: Ignore him.

What does this prove exactly?

Just becuase it's a light attack doesn't mean it's light speed also is he deflecting light with his hand?????????? lol

Lol the pure stupidity of thinking superman fights at spiderman level speeds. He's ftl travel and combat speed no matter how many essays on comicvine you write lmaooooo

@l3g3ndarypheonix: "Just because it's a light attack doesn't mean it's light speed" Lol. Denial. He reacted after the attack was fired and still managed to stop it, seemingly without much effort.

He's stopping it, not deflecting it.

but you would need to prove that it's light speed the fact that Superman is physically stopping"light" makes me question this