superman stongest feat ever

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#101 Edited by deactivated-5a853424245e3 (4168 posts) - - Show Bio

The "every book possible" statement is an inference made by Superman, a logical conclusion he somehow reached from being told there were an "infinite amount of pages occupying the same space". He could be wrong, but ultimately it makes no difference. The idea of infinity through, what I can only describe as some sort of Copenhagen interpretation, is endless; it's not a real number; although we can and do use it like a number. Doing so enables us to expound on the idea of infinity and its properties. The statement ∞ > X > -∞, where X represents a real number, proves that infinity is greater than any X, whereas "negative infinity" (i.e. the negation of positive infinity and or the most negative value; -(2^(N-1))) is lesser than any X, demonstrates this.

Now, can something truly be endless? Yes. Euclid proved an infinitude of prime numbers:

Suppose that p1=2 < p2 = 3 < ... < pr are all of the primes. Let P = p1p2...pr+1 and let p be a prime dividing P; then p can not be any of p1, p2, ..., pr, otherwise p would divide the difference P-p1p2...pr=1, which is impossible. So this prime p is still another prime, and p1, p2, ..., pr would not be all of the primes.

Imagine a book with a single prime number, written once on a thousand pages made of lead. Now imagine a book where that same prime number is written twice on every page. Three times. Four times. How about that prime number stretched so only parts of the number exist on each page? What about one book where its font size is 0.15 and another where it's 923.45? Two prime numbers of varying fonts, three with varying fonts with different color inks, four with varying fonts with different color inks and inconsistent underlines for emphasis--the combinations are literally endless.

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#102 Edited by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth said:

"what so superman can start off infinite, but none of the other kryptonians."

I already told you they should have the potential to, given the fact that Superman has done it twice.

"I said that no other characters have feats that contradict each other, superman does, explain that. For example, the Hulk's strength is potentially limitless, meaning at some point he can lift something, at another point he can't. Superman according to you starts off infinite, so that means he would have been able to stop the moon."

According to me, he CAN start off there if he really needs to. Superman's strength has been described as limitless as well, but he holds back. The feat is inconsistent, but it is a feat nonetheless. It happened. I think this is a matter of you getting over it, just like the Silver Age speed feat.

Superman's feats contradict each other.

See above.

"and Spectre doesn't weigh infinity, it said he was made up of eternity. if it weighed infninty it would sink through planet, like i said, but it was hovering. It probably weighed something, less than the earth i'd assume as it took 3 justice league members to move that."

This is you trying to debunk it with "if he weighed that much he would have sank through the planet!" I think you're looking too much into this. I've already explained this feat to you as well. It says that his consciousness contains eternity itself and that eternity is heavy. It's used to describe itself as a weight, which is logically infinite. It isn't that hard to understand. It seems like you're literally trying your best to disregard it and the other feat because you don't like them.

Superman states "A book with an infinite number of pages occupying the same space"," this contains every book possible!".

Superman and Shazam attempt to take the book to a spaceship

Superman "The Ultima Thule's onboard computer has infinite memory capacity"

Shazam "Which means it could read every page of the book at once.".

When attempting to move the book pages start falling out and they drop it. The book reads itself.

Not quite. Superman and Shazam pick it up, which allows them to read it. Superman even says they're reading it. Ultraman does it by himself, which is a testament to Superman being capable of doing it alone. You're saying Ultraman is stronger than Shazam and Superman combined, which we know isn't true.

Every book possible is a finite number of books, not an infinite number of books. There is no context to the weight. On our own Earth (Earth 1 in the DCU) we are moving away from printed content to digital content. It's safe to assume that is the case in other (theoretical) multiverses.

In an attempt to show some context we can try to determine the weight of all the books on Earth.

http://mashable.com/2010/08/05/number-of-books-in-the-world/

How many books have ever been published in all of modern history? According to Google's advanced algorithms, the answer is nearly 130 million books, or 129,864,880, to be exact.

All the books possible on Earth is 130 million books. How much does an average book weigh?

http://avgpostageweights.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/average-weight-of-paperback-book.html

The heaviest paperback weights 1lb 5oz = 0.60kg

The heaviest hardback weights 1lb 15oz = 0.88kg

If we say all the books in the World have the weight of the heaviest hardback that means they were lifting 114400000 kg or 114,400 tonnes (0.88 x 130 million).

IF we say there are a million copies of every book ever published that's 114,400 x 1,000,000 = 114400000000 or one hundred fourteen billion four hundred million tonnes.

If we say there are a million copies of every book ever published in 52 multiverses that's 114400000000 x 52 = 5.9488e+12 = five billion ninety-four million eight hundred eighty thousand twelve or 5.9488 trillion tonnes.

http://www.tools4noobs.com/online_tools/number_spell_words/

Still considerably less than the weight of the Earth - 6.580 sextillion tons.

  • If Superman could lift infinite weight he would not have needed the help of Wonder Woman and Kyle Rayner to lift Spectre (JLA The Spectre Soul War 1)
  • If Superman could lift infinite weight he would not have needed the help of Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter and Kyle Rayner to move the Earth (JLA 75)
  • If Superman could lift infinite weight he would not have needed to sun-dip in order to move Warworld (Action Comics 782)
  • Spectre was heavier than the book as it took three Justice League members to move him
  • The Earth was also heavier than the book and Spectre as it took four Justice League members to move him

Therefore Superman did not lift infinite weight."

I've seen some stupid people, but this... First of all, I've explained the Spectre bit to you. With that, lifting any part of his body would be lifting infinite weight. The feat stands on it's own, whining about it's inconsistency is pointless. Again, inconsistent feats contradict other showings. Thanks for the attempt at specific examples though?

Now to the worst part of all your ranting. It's pretty funny that you wasted all your time with that math due to your lack of reading comprehension. You seem to think something else is meant by every book possible. It doesn't mean every book written. Yours isn't even a reasonable comparison, as it makes absolutely no sense here. Every book possible means any book imaginable and unimaginable. All with any language, words, meanings, stories, lengths, sizes, shapes, colors, and any other unfathomable descriptions for a book that there COULD be. That is NOT a finite number. At this point, I think you might just be too simple to understand this stuff. They say it has infinite pages, and that it contains every book possible. You say it isn't infinite and that it doesn't contain every book possible. Forgive me if I'm hesitant to choose you over the source material.

"On our own Earth (Earth 1 in the DCU) we are moving away from printed content to digital content. It's safe to assume that is the case in other (theoretical) multiverses."

This is not a safe assumption whatsoever.

GG.

No , consciousness also weighs nothing, it said eternity as a measure of time, not weight. Ur explanation of the Spectre doesn't work. This is you trying to debunk it with "if he weighed that much he would have sank through the planet!" I think you're looking too much into this. I've already explained this feat to you as well. It says that his consciousness contains eternity itself and that eternity is heavy. It's used to describe itself as a weight, which is logically infinite. It isn't that hard to understand. It seems like you're literally trying your best to disregard it and the other feat because you don't like them. this is true so i dunno what ur on about.

Ok all kryptonians have potential, if they have infinite solar radiation, does superman have potential? or does he start off? and if he starts off then holding back won't make difference, since like u said any part of infnity is infinity, so if he only uses 5% it's still infinite. It said he hasn;t shown an upper limit, he's not limitless. I'm still waiting for that example, u still haven't explained superman's feats contradicting each other, they don't add up, most other character's make sense and their feats add up.

about the sinking through the planet, i may have mixed that up with the book, the book was supposed to sink through the planet but it wasn't.

i see where ur coming from with the speed feat. but if he was travelling faster than infinity, then he would have been everywhere, he nearly went to heaven or something and went to the end of reality before spectre stopped him, but if he was travelling that fast spectre wouldn't have been able to stop him. Hence i thought it was a figure of speech, but that's Silver Age, he's crazy.

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#103 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: "

"No , consciousness also weighs nothing, it said eternity as a measure of time, not weight. Ur explanation of the Spectre doesn't work."

Of course your consciousness doesn't weigh anything. You're ignoring the context here. "The Spectre's body, you see, is composed of consciousness. A cosmic consciousness that contains Eternity itself. And Eternity... is heavy."

I'll admit I was wrong, that Eternity wasn't being used to describe a weight here. The word "heavy" was being used to describe Eternity, which his body contains. It's an infinite weight feat.

"This is you trying to debunk it with "if he weighed that much he would have sank through the planet!" I think you're looking too much into this. I've already explained this feat to you as well. It says that his consciousness contains eternity itself and that eternity is heavy. It's used to describe itself as a weight, which is logically infinite. It isn't that hard to understand. It seems like you're literally trying your best to disregard it and the other feat because you don't like them. this is true so i dunno what ur on about."

I get where you're coming from with your argument in this case. But as I said, I think you're looking into it too much from a comic with expecting him to sink through the planet. The same reason you complain about other things not making sense with reality.

"Ok all kryptonians have potential, if they have infinite solar radiation, does superman have potential? or does he start off? and if he starts off then holding back won't make difference, since like u said any part of infnity is infinity, so if he only uses 5% it's still infinite. It said he hasn;t shown an upper limit, he's not limitless. I'm still waiting for that example, u still haven't explained superman's feats contradicting each other, they don't add up, most other character's make sense and their feats add up."

No, he has actually been described as limitless before in relation to his strength. I've already been around with you on the contradicting and inconsistency bit. It isn't my fault if you don't understand it.


"about the sinking through the planet, i may have mixed that up with the book, the book was supposed to sink through the planet but it wasn't."

Again, looking into it too much. You lack credibility anyway, as you seem to enjoy making things up to better your arguments.


"i see where ur coming from with the speed feat. but if he was travelling faster than infinity, then he would have been everywhere, he nearly went to heaven or something and went to the end of reality before spectre stopped him, but if he was travelling that fast spectre wouldn't have been able to stop him. Hence i thought it was a figure of speech, but that's Silver Age, he's crazy."

Haha, so NOW you concede. Silver Age was ridiculous, but comic books are in general. Nonsensical things happen all the time in these things. I think you look into it too much and want it ALL to make sense, but that just isn't going to happen. The infinite weight feats and speed feat are silly, and it makes sense not to use them from a certain objective standpoint. But you shouldn't let that make you disregard them completely. Because ultimately, these feats still happened.

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#104 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Eternity is heavy not infinitely heavy, u explained the inconsistency of feats, not about contradictions though. According to you Superman can lift infinity, but he fail to stop a moon, if he could lift infinity he would've stopped the moon with his pinky.

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#105 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: It would be in this context though, as Eternity is infinite and it's literally a weight here. I explained to you how you didn't know what you're talking about with feats, inconsistency, and contradictions. You said feats can't be contradictory, which is erroneous and I corrected you. According to me, Superman is ultimately a Gary Stu and that this is a comic book. It's an inconsistent feat, but a feat that still happened. GG

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#106 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth:

Spectre says "They're (Superman and Wonder Woman) two of the mightiest beings in the Universe and yet the weight of my unconscious form was nearly too much for them. The Spectre's body you see is composed of consciousness. A cosmic consciousness that contains eternity itself. And eternity is heavy."

Eternity is a measure of time. It does not have a weight, nor does a consciousness, which is a spiritual concept. There's no context to the weight other than it being heavy and the fact that the strain caused Hal Jordan to collapse. All they did was slow down his fall from orbit, not lift him up...

You didn't explain the contradiction of feats, and superman is the only one with contradictory feats, like lifting infinity and failing to stop a moon, when according to u all 12 of those kryptonians had potentially infinite strength.

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#107 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: "Spectre says "They're (Superman and Wonder Woman) two of the mightiest beings in the Universe and yet the weight of my unconscious form was nearly too much for them. The Spectre's body you see is composed of consciousness. A cosmic consciousness that contains eternity itself. And eternity is heavy."

Universes* and quoting it doesn't change anything.

"Eternity is a measure of time. It does not have a weight, nor does a consciousness, which is a spiritual concept. There's no context to the weight other than it being heavy and the fact that the strain caused Hal Jordan to collapse. All they did was slow down his fall from orbit, not lift him up..."

Again, I've explained this to you. It doesn't matter if it's a measurement of time here. It's being used as a weight, and you're disregarding that completely because of the traditional use of the word. You saying it doesn't have a weight is blatantly false in this case, as it even says that it's heavy. Not sure why you're saying it doesn't have a consciousness, because I don't believe that was said. Even slowing down an infinite weight would mean you're lifting infinite weight. You can see the cape get caught enough for Spectre's body to lie on it, his hand being the most obvious. LOVE the copy/paste by the way.

"You didn't explain the contradiction of feats, and superman is the only one with contradictory feats, like lifting infinity and failing to stop a moon, when according to u all 12 of those kryptonians had potentially infinite strength."

Lol, I said that inconsistent feats were contradictory. That's factual. Plenty of people have them. Whether it's Flash's, Superman's, Quicksilver's, Wonder Woman's, Hulk's, Thor's, or Spider-Man's showings of speed or strength. It's everywhere in comic books. That's just common knowledge, and common sense at this point. I said they had the potential to perform the same feat, and they do given very basic facts such as Superman's ability to do it and that they're of the same species.

Still can't get over that copy/paste. Lol

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#108 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: No, I meant that consciousness does not have a weight

It just says it's very heavy, not infinitely heavy, no it said "eternity itself" meaning not as a weight, just as in time.

Inconsistent feats are not contradictory feats... Neither Flash nor Hulk nor Thor have contradictory feats. Can u state an example of a feat, of maybe hulk or flash, where it is inconsistent?? or contradictory even??

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#109 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: Didn't articulate it well then. It has to in this case though, as he has a weight and his body is made up of it here.

It doesn't have to say infinitely heavy. No, it says that he contains Eternity itself, which is vague. It then calls it heavy. Your argument makes no sense.

Inconsistent feats actually contradict other showings, so yes, they are contradictory. Any feat is essentially inconsistent and contradictory to their regular showings, but we all know that fluctuates with writers. Nearly every comic character throughout their history has had inconsistencies. That's common knowledge, dude. Or is this a "give me examples or no deal! :_:"?

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#110 Edited by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: Didn't articulate it well then. It has to in this case though, as he has a weight and his body is made up of it here.

It doesn't have to say infinitely heavy. No, it says that he contains Eternity itself, which is vague. It then calls it heavy. Your argument makes no sense.

Inconsistent feats actually contradict other showings, so yes, they are contradictory. Any feat is essentially inconsistent and contradictory to their regular showings, but we all know that fluctuates with writers. Nearly every comic character throughout their history has had inconsistencies. That's common knowledge, dude. Or is this a "give me examples or no deal! :_:"?

I think it needs to be more specific, it just says heavy, and eternity is just a measure of time. Yeaa.... i would like some examples....

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#111 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: Eternity has weight here. It's emphasized by the Spectre that it's heavy. That's fact. With your reasoning, you should be saying he contains ALL of time and that all of time is heavy. You repeating yourself with that fallacious logic doesn't do anything. It ultimately comes down to showings period, as feats are just that. All characters have their inconsistencies, especially the ones with extensive history. Flash outrunning time, but still has trouble with Rogues. Hulk punching through time, but gets choked out by a snake. Doctor Octopus beating him. Thor reacting in a microsecond, yet he's usually vastly slower.

EDIT: One can possess infinite strength, but limit themselves. This is something Superman is known for, limiting himself so others aren't hurt. He is as strong as he needs to be. He is ultimately a Gary Stu.

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#112 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Yeah but Hulk has potential, he doesn't start off at infinite strength. Thor can react within a microsecond, no problem with that. ALL of time is heavy, not infinitely heavy.

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#113 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: The one thing the Hulk isn't is consistent. His intelligence, strength, toughness, personality (angry, malicious, loner, etc.), size, and color have all varied wildly throughout his existence. About the only thing that's always been portrayed consistently about him is that he's male. Otherwise, if you take two issues of Hulk from different eras, there's a pretty good chance they're going to contradict each other on something.

(And yes, I know there are the "multiple split personalities" and "strength grows with his anger" explanations, but explaining an inconsistency doesn't eliminate it, and at any rate, both are retcons. The original Hulk had only one personality split -- Banner/Hulk -- and a high but steady level of strength. Once they started being inconsistent in the portrayals, that's when the other explanations started creeping in.)

Thor can't react in a microsecond. He's slower than that. You don't want to dispute this.

"ALL of time is heavy, not infinitely heavy." In this context, time has weight. This is literally forever that we're talking about here.

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#114 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Yea but all of Hulk's powers are based around his anger, and they increase as he gets angrier. Time won't go on forever...

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#115 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: Yes, we all know how Hulk's powers operate. That doesn't excuse the inconsistencies. I understand where you're coming from though. Eternity literally means infinite time.

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#116 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Why not? At some points he's more powerful than other times. I still don't understand how eternity is a weight, it means infinite time as u said. Also they just lifted his cape, it didn't actually show them lifting his body, his body didn't leave the ground. Also I thought that the book only contained every book in the multiverse and that infinite pages was a hyperbole, but i wasn't sure, and didn't they fail to lift it in the end?

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#117 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: It doesn't excuse him because his powers are generally inconsistent, because he gets stronger the angrier he is. I could attempt to pick that apart by saying you can get infinitely mad, but these are comic books. Beyonder said there was no finite element to his rage. It makes no sense, but again.. comic books.

Traditionally, Eternity doesn't have a weight, as it is a measurement of time and nothing more. I don't understand it either, but it has weight here.

"it didn't actually show them lifting his body, his body didn't leave the ground."

This is actually false. They use his cape to help lift him, and they do as you can see in the first panel of that page. They aren't lifting him off the ground, they're slowing his fall. If someone thought they were lifting him off the ground before that page, then they would think they did lift him because he hits the ground after Superman and Wonder Woman lift part of him using his cape.

"Also I thought that the book only contained every book in the multiverse and that infinite pages was a hyperbole, but i wasn't sure, and didn't they fail to lift it in the end?"

The book contained every book possible. Every book in the multiverse (if there were a limited number of universes) would be finite. Every book possible is not finite. It possessing infinite pages isn't hyperbole, we've covered that. The fact that it's said to have infinite pages numerous times is a testament to it not being hyperbole. Then you also have to consider author intent, which is clearly for it to have infinite pages. They didn't fail to lift it, as they were able to read the book. Nowhere is it said that they couldn't do it. Don't you think that if they couldn't do it, that they would have mentioned that? Ultraman does this by himself, and he is an alternate version of Superman. This is a testament to Superman being capable of replicating this by himself.

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#118 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

So what ur saying is that Spectre said Eternity is "very heavy" meaning it has weight, and since eternity is infinity, they lifted infinity????

Yes, every book in the universe would be finite and at that time there were only 52 universes. They tried to lift the book and the book just read itself. They got hit back... It still could be a hyperbole, superman could have been wrong about it having infinite pages. The book was hovering in a blue sphere meaning that it wasn't being affected by gravity in a normal way, had it actually had infinite mass, it would fall through the planet and suck it and everything up like a super massive black hole would. And the weight of the pages is never given so the feat is by no means proof of infinite strength. In the ultimate guide to superman it states that he has limits in all areas. The examples stated of other characters having inconsistent feats weren't really based in one area, and they can all be explained. If superman had infinite strength he wouldn't need help to move things like moons and planets, the infinite book feat directly contradicts all his other feats, flash outrunning time and having trouble with rogues doesn't mean anything. He could have been using more of the speed force, similar things go for other characters like Hulk.

One can possess infinite strength, but limit themselves. This is something Superman is known for, limiting himself so others aren't hurt. He is as strong as he needs to be. He is ultimately a Gary Stu.

u can't hold back infinity, if one has no limits, he can't put limits on himself, either he has limits or he doesn't. Superman could be using 5%, 10% or 0.00000000000001%, it wouldn't matter cos 5% of infinity is still infinity. There's no way of holding back infinity. Infinite potential is different though.

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#119 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

So what ur saying is that Spectre said Eternity is "very heavy" meaning it has weight, and since eternity is infinity, they lifted infinity????

More or less, it's an infinite weight because time has weight here and it's infinite time. That's the very basic logic behind this. Glad you're finally catching on.

Yes, every book in the universe would be finite and at that time there were only 52 universes. They tried to lift the book and the book just read itself. They got hit back... It still could be a hyperbole, superman could have been wrong about it having infinite pages. The book was hovering in a blue sphere meaning that it wasn't being affected by gravity in a normal way, had it actually had infinite mass, it would fall through the planet and suck it and everything up like a super massive black hole would. And the weight of the pages is never given so the feat is by no means proof of infinite strength. In the ultimate guide to superman it states that he has limits in all areas. The examples stated of other characters having inconsistent feats weren't really based in one area, and they can all be explained. If superman had infinite strength he wouldn't need help to move things like moons and planets, the infinite book feat directly contradicts all his other feats, flash outrunning time and having trouble with rogues doesn't mean anything. He could have been using more of the speed force, similar things go for other characters like Hulk.

Holy shit, how are you not understanding THIS of all things? It's not every book in the universe, or the multiverse. Every. Book. Possible. That IS FACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY an infinite number of books/stories/pages! They themselves read the book, as Superman lets us know with "We're reading some kind of primal origin story." The "book reads itself" is for the audience's sake. Have you read the comic?!

Again, it isn't hyperbole. To claim that is to ignore all logical evidence, statements made by characters, and author intent. It's said multiple times to contain infinite pages, and every book possible. Superman isn't wrong about it, as he's informing the audience. If he were wrong, it would be specified. The blue sphere is never explained, stop fabricating stuff in an attempt to better your weak arguments. With the whole "it would sink through the planet!" argument, it's serious reaching. That doesn't debunk anything, as this is a comic book, they were in Limbo, and this is a special book. The weight of the pages doesn't need to be specified, as the book itself is implied to have extreme weight. Superman tells Shazam "If anyone can help me lift a book with an infinite number of pages, you can." It has weight, and infinite pages. It's an infinite weight. At this point you're grasping at straws and reaching to the moon and back for anything you can get..

You say the character examples can be explained. They're factually inconsistent. That's what feats are. Superman possesses infinite strength, as his feats dictate. He limits himself in the comics, and that's a big theme. I'll address this further next.

One can possess infinite strength, but limit themselves. This is something Superman is known for, limiting himself so others aren't hurt. He is as strong as he needs to be. He is ultimately a Gary Stu.

u can't hold back infinity, if one has no limits, he can't put limits on himself, either he has limits or he doesn't. Superman could be using 5%, 10% or 0.00000000000001%, it wouldn't matter cos 5% of infinity is still infinity. There's no way of holding back infinity. Infinite potential is different though.

You clearly don't understand this either. To explain, I'll give you an example. Superman has infinite strength. He subconsciously limits himself to a set number. He struggles to break past that but can when there are Gary Stu moments. The Gary Stu part of him, though he isn't as bad as he used to be, he rarely does the impossible (this instance). It doesn't make sense, and it's not consistent (he limits himself and this is supposed to be a "That's impossible, but I'm Superman!" moment) but it still happened. This is all a matter of his strongest feats, and these are those.

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#120 Edited by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, kinda makes sense but the writer should have given more context to the weight rather than it just being "very heavy", couldn't he just say the spectre's body is made up of infinity?

You clearly don't understand this either. To explain, I'll give you an example. Superman has infinite strength. He subconsciously limits himself to a set number. He struggles to break past that but can when there are Gary Stu moments. The Gary Stu part of him, though he isn't as bad as he used to be, he rarely does the impossible (this instance). It doesn't make sense, and it's not consistent (he limits himself and this is supposed to be a "That's impossible, but I'm Superman!" moment) but it still happened. This is all a matter of his strongest feats, and these are those.

If u have no limits u can't limit urself, it's not only impossible it is illogical, not to mention that Superman struggles to do a lot of things, like stopping that moon. The book read itself, they got blown back when they tried to move it.

You say the character examples can be explained. They're factually inconsistent. That's what feats are. Superman possesses infinite strength, as his feats dictate. He limits himself in the comics, and that's a big theme. I'll address this further next.

Yes the character examples can be explained, their inconsistency can be explained, Superman's contradiction's can't.

Again, it isn't hyperbole. To claim that is to ignore all logical evidence, statements made by characters, and author intent. It's said multiple times to contain infinite pages, and every book possible. Superman isn't wrong about it, as he's informing the audience. If he were wrong, it would be specified. The blue sphere is never explained, stop fabricating stuff in an attempt to better your weak arguments. With the whole "it would sink through the planet!" argument, it's serious reaching. That doesn't debunk anything, as this is a comic book, they were in Limbo, and this is a special book. The weight of the pages doesn't need to be specified, as the book itself is implied to have extreme weight. Superman tells Shazam "If anyone can help me lift a book with an infinite number of pages, you can." It has weight, and infinite pages. It's an infinite weight. At this point you're grasping at straws and reaching to the moon and back for anything you can get..

Each page could weigh an infinitesimal (1th) of say a ton, then the whole book overall will only weigh a ton.

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#121 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, kinda makes sense but the writer should have given more context to the weight rather than it just being "very heavy", couldn't he just say the spectre's body is made up of infinity?

That's basically what is being said though.

If u have no limits u can't limit urself, it's not only impossible it is illogical, not to mention that Superman struggles to do a lot of things, like stopping that moon. The book read itself, they got blown back when they tried to move it.

What has no limit, is Superman's potential power. What he can put a limit on is the power he uses. I've explained to you how it works with him subconsciously limiting himself at a set number, that's why he struggles. Superman is a character of incredibly strong will. Someone like him having no limits, you HAVE to limit yourself. He's a good person and doesn't want people to get hurt. "If you have no limits you can't limit yourself." I get what you're trying to say here, but you're trying to be smart and you're not. If you have no limits, that doesn't mean you can't limit yourself. That just logical.

Yes the character examples can be explained, their inconsistency can be explained, Superman's contradiction's can't.

Are you going to keep saying they can be explained without explaining them, or?

Each page could weigh an infinitesimal (1th) of say a ton, then the whole book overall will only weigh a ton.

"Could"

That's all I really need to say, but I'll keep going. This makes absolutely no fucking sense. No weight has a fraction small enough to fit into it an infinite number of times. This thing contains every book possible. That means books weight very little and books that weigh billions of tons. Any number. For something to be infinitesimal it has to small of course, but it all starts somewhere.

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#122 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

That's all I really need to say, but I'll keep going. This makes absolutely no fucking sense. No weight has a fraction small enough to fit into it an infinite number of times. This thing contains every book possible. That means books weight very little and books that weigh billions of tons. Any number. For something to be infinitesimal it has to small of course, but it all starts somewhere.

Like I said it could be an infinitely small number

What has no limit, is Superman's potential power. What he can put a limit on is the power he uses. I've explained to you how it works with him subconsciously limiting himself at a set number, that's why he struggles. Superman is a character of incredibly strong will. Someone like him having no limits, you HAVE to limit yourself. He's a good person and doesn't want people to get hurt. "If you have no limits you can't limit yourself." I get what you're trying to say here, but you're trying to be smart and you're not. If you have no limits, that doesn't mean you can't limit yourself. That just logical.

how can he put a limit on the power he uses, it's limitless.

I've explained to you how it works with him subconsciously limiting himself at a set number, that's why he struggles

what??? What does that mean?

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#123 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

Like I said it could be an infinitely small number

That makes no sense. The pages could weigh insanely small amounts and it's still infinity.

how can he put a limit on the power he uses, it's limitless.

The idea that you can't limit yourself when possessing infinite power is fallacious. You're thinking in an extremely basic light.

"It's limitless so it can't have limits!" There's a difference between his power being limitless and him limiting himself. It's the SAME thing as anyone else limiting their powers so they don't hurt people.

I've explained to you how it works with him subconsciously limiting himself at a set number, that's why he struggles

what??? What does that mean?

Infinite Strength. You only use a certain amount. It's not percentages of it, because that's irrelevant. It's about the numbers. Choosing to use a certain amount of it. He subconsciously limits himself, so people aren't hurt or killed etc. He struggles to break past the point he limits himself at, but does so for his Gary Stu moments.He's as strong as he needs to be.

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#124 Edited by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: That makes no sense. Neither does him limiting himself subconsciously

each page can weigh infinitely small, it could be one infinitieth of a certain weight, infinitesimal. I know it doesn't make sense, but neither does anything else we've been talking about... eternity suddenly having a weight.

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#125 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: The claim that someone with infinite power can't limit themselves is erroneous for obvious reasons! If I have infinite strength, I can push still hold a spoon without absolutely crushing it with infinite force. Good heavens, I can't believe I've had to attempt to explain this to you so many times.


No, they can't. This wouldn't make sense even if all the pages/books were the same size. This is any book possible, dude.

You can't have one "infinitieth" of a number.


Eternity makes sense in this scenario because we know that's what's going on. You're bringing up "what if"s and "could be"s because you're trying to debunk it.

Just concede and save us both some time.

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#126 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: You can have one infinitieth, no but if you have infinite strength u shouldn't struggle to do anything. The very concept of eternity having a weight is hard to get ur head around, regardless of the scenario.

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#127 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: No, you can't. I've explained why he struggles, it's not my fault if you can't understand it. I agree, as it doesn't make sense. Comic books, man.

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#128 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: How does he struggle, and same for the infinitesimal, doesn't make sense, but comic books man. And do you have instagram?

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#129 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: Scroll up. I explained it with the limiting himself. Your logic is fallacious. You can't have an infinite fraction. You can't say "comic books man" to better your point because it's not applicable as it is the times I've said it.

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#130 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: I couldn't find it, yes u can have an infinite fraction, that's like saying you can't have an infinite book all occupying the same space.

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#131 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: If you don't see why your reasoning isn't applicable, there's no hope for you. You can't say that because the story doesn't even suggest it, while the infinite book is supported. Have you actually thought about what you're saying?

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#132 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: What I'm saying is that the book having infinite pages doesn't necessarily mean that it weighs infinite. And yeah it doesn't state the weight of the pages meaning that it could be anything...

Also do you anything about superman prime one million.

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#133 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: It does. We know it has weight, as Superman implies. They struggle to lift it. It contains every book possible. You're doing nothing but reaching.

Yes.

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#134 Edited by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Like I said before it can still be extremely heavy.

Is he omnipotent?

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#135 Edited by Minaruto (123 posts) - - Show Bio

Not many characters can claim to be omnipotent.

I'm talking about true omnipotence.

SP1M is boss but he's not omnipotent.

Neither are Spectre and Living Tribunal and almost everyone else.

@hulksmash134 said:

@mercinwithamouth: Like I said before it can still be extremely heavy.

Is he omnipotent?

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#136 Edited by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@minaruto: That's exactly the point I wanted to hear, the only people who should be omnipotent are the one above all and the presence do you have instagram?

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#137 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: It would be an infinite weight though, as it contains every book possible. I'm guessing you still haven't wrapped your head around that concept.

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#138 Posted by Minaruto (123 posts) - - Show Bio

Do e-books count? lol jk.

Writers sometimes have the itchy trigger finger to use "infinite" "eternity" "limitless" and the like too much. Sometimes.

@hulksmash134: It would be an infinite weight though, as it contains every book possible. I'm guessing you still haven't wrapped your head around that concept.

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#139 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio
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#140 Edited by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Nope, one infinitesimal of say a billion tons, times infinity is only a billion tons. No matter how many pages or books...

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#141 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: No. I don't believe you understand what you're saying at all. You're simply reaching, again. This is the worst though. You've managed to say the dumbest thing I've ever read. GG

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#142 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: it's a theory, and it could be true. My point is a book with infinite pages doesnt necessarilyhave to weigh infinity...

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#143 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio
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#144 Posted by deactivated-5a853424245e3 (4168 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: I've already proven it would in post 101 on this page.

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#145 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio
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#146 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio
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#147 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: Yes, it would. As it contains every book possible. They proved it at the top of this page.

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#148 Posted by deactivated-5a853424245e3 (4168 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: You stated it doesn't necessarily have to have an infinite weight, but I proved it does.

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#149 Posted by hulksmash134 (347 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: yea but each page could be infinite small (infinitesimal)

And would u mind showing me the calculations for superman travelling from the end of the universe to earth in 60 days??

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#150 Posted by Aimless (2047 posts) - - Show Bio

Are people actually saying Clark can lift infinity.....

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