@joshmightbe: pretty much Agree with 99.9% of that comment.

Whenever talking about a flaw that Superman has, Superman fan boys go straight to ripping on Batman. This just shows how insecure Superman fan boys are.

Superman is easily a Gary Stu. He's s strong fast handsome smart completely infallible and is almost always the one who saves the day

That description applies to virtually every male superhero.

@thegodamnbatman: Yeah, that whole line of thought was embarrassing.

On-topic: There are two useful definitions of Mary Sue I've found. The first is that Mary Sue is a main character without flaws that everyone shills. Superman occassionally fits the bill here, but a competent writer knows not to do this, and none of his most acclaimed books follow this pattern (not even All-Star, which everyone always says has a Perfect Superman).

The second one is a character who is a narrative black-hole, around whom everything revolves and outside of which the narrative simply doesn't exist. Now, maybe at some point in his 80 year history this applied to him, but not at this point, not in his most acclaimed stories, and not in the stories I've read with him in every decade.

I don't think this makes him a Mary Sue because he is often said to be one of the most powerful and greatest superheroes. But.. his strength has not physical limits. He lifts things that should break apart due to its large size and his limits on actual lifting capacity are unlimited like the frequently quoted benching the weight of the planet for five days straight in darkness without breaking a sweat. He clearly doesn't have to physically strain if the writer doesn't want him to

This is absolutely ridiculous to me and has the same annoying effect a Mary Sue does but he is not actually one by contemporary definitions.

@quinlan58 said:

@thegodamnbatman: Yeah, that whole line of thought was embarrassing.

On-topic: There are two useful definitions of Mary Sue I've found. The first is that Mary Sue is a main character without flaws that everyone shills. Superman occassionally fits the bill here, but a competent writer knows not to do this, and none of his most acclaimed books follow this pattern (not even All-Star, which everyone always says has a Perfect Superman).

The second one is a character who is a narrative black-hole, around whom everything revolves and outside of which the narrative simply doesn't exist. Now, maybe at some point in his 80 year history this applied to him, but not at this point, not in his most acclaimed stories, and not in the stories I've read with him in every decade.

I'm was just stating a fact. Whenever the topic for Superman having a negative aspect of his character is brought up, Superman fanboys often feel threatened and try to belittle Batman in response. You can try to dismiss my point, but what I have said is objectivity true, and I'm not the only who believes this:

@squalleon said:Yeah, guys let's trash Batman in a completely unrelated topic with him. Let's show how much insecure and competitive we Superman fans are when it comes to Batman.

@thegodamnbatman: Deleted my response because I thought you had deleted yours.

To repeat myself, I agree. There is a very vocal segment of the Superman fanbase that bashes Batman whenever Superman is criticized as if that was an adequate defense, and I think that whole line of thought is embarrassing, not just in this case but for any other character and work in any medium.

@quinlan58: Oh, I apologize, I simply misunderstood what you were saying. I thought that you were saying that my line of thought was embarrassing. Anyway, I would just like to say I have nothing against Superman fans in general, it's just the fanboys that Batman that I don't appreciate.

What a stupid question. The very origin of Superman puts him very far away from that 'mary sue' term.

No need to be rude. I'm just asking a question. Besides most considered him portrayed as "perfect". So that's why I asked.

@titanbreaker: lol XD