Superboy Kon El retconned?

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vinomonster

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Now that Reborn retconned almost everything in Superman line.. where do you think Kon fits?

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Jakai

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Well I don't remember seeing H'el in one of Superman's enemy lists. In that case, H'el's storyline, including the crossover with Supergirl and Superboy may not have happened at all. Subsequently, that would have never lead him to eventually join that bootleg Legion of Superheroes time-traveling group.

Honestly, they can say his New 52 version never even existed and it wouldn't be a big deal (aside from the New 52 Teen Titans run being affected). So hopefully they just bring him back or just recreate him as he was Pre-New 52. I don't like the idea that his DNA is part Superman, Lex, and part Future Lois and Clark's Son's DNA... Just like why

I just want his Pre-New 52 style to come back. And please no Tron Monkey Suit. Bring back the shirt and jeans

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z3ro180

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I imagine they will retcon him

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stephens2177

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Guessing the pre flashpoint Kon will be back,but be Reborn,like Superman,to fit into the current timeline.hopefully the changes,if any,will be to make him more like the kesel version.

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z3ro180

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TheNomadicOne

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#6  Edited By TheNomadicOne
No Caption Provided

I believe he is talking about this Superboy @z3ro180

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knightofthechronicle

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Please retcon him...I thought almost from the beginning that the New 52 origin they set up was too convoluted. If they do it now we could see how it affects John, an actual son of Superman. It'd almost be a Jason Todd/Dick Grayson dynamic, which I think would be fantastic.

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RDClip

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If they did bring in Kon, he's have to have a new superhero name. Anyone have any good ideas?

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stephens2177

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Karl Kesel created kon-el folks,the original and best Kon by far.yes he is different now,but he lost a lot of what made him awesome when they changed him so dramatically.

Codenames-

Kon-el

Scion

Black zero

Brainstorm

Sentinel

Darkstar

Splice

Security

Guardian

Agent Kr

Agent 13

S-13

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dernman

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#10  Edited By dernman

He should return and Johnathan be retconed into out of main continuity ones in a while stories.

We shouldn't clutter things up. In fact there are other S's that should be gotten rid of.

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z3ro180

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#11  Edited By z3ro180

@thenomadicone: on the 90s superboy i hoe they leave that idea back in the 90s

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Lvenger

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I remember Johns saying that New 52 Superboy was one of his biggest disappointments about the New 52 so it's highly likely DC will retcon him in either the Teen Titans or Superman comics somehow. Personally I'm hoping for more inspiration to be taken from the Teen Titans/Geoff Johns period of Superboy. That's my personal favourite interpretation of The Clone of Steel.

Karl Kesel created kon-el folks,the original and best Kon by far.yes he is different now,but he lost a lot of what made him awesome when they changed him so dramatically.

Codenames-

Kon-el

Scion

Black zero

Brainstorm

Sentinel

Darkstar

Splice

Security

Guardian

Agent Kr

Agent 13

S-13

I've familiar with your posts on the CBR Superman board so I know you aren't the biggest fan of Johns' Superboy. You can't deny that the original Superboy is very dated and his design was awful though. As for your codename list, Scion, Sentinel and S-13 are my personal favourites from the list but why odd choices like Brainstorm and Security?

@dernman Even if retconning Jon was possible, what benefits would Conner bring that Jon doesn't? The father-son relationship doesn't work between them like it does with Jon. Besides, there's room for both Conner and Jon, Conner could get a Nightwing type identity if he comes back. To my recollection there are only 5 S's in the Superman Family, it's nowhere near as cluttered as the Bat Family.

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Jakai

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#13  Edited By Jakai

@lvenger: Superboy can also take more of a little brother relationship to Superman as a role. And speaking of the Superman Family, it is definitely growing. Superman's family is growing, but it still comes short

Superman Family

  • Superman
  • Supergirl
  • Superboy (Jon)
  • Powergirl
  • Superboy (Kon - Hopefully he gets back)
  • Superwoman (Lana)
  • New Super-Man
  • Steel
  • Bizarro (Dark Trinity - Still on Good Side)
  • Krypto
  • Valor (Mon-El - Probably doesn't count tbh)

Batman Family

  • Batman
  • Alfred
  • Nightwing
  • Red Hood
  • Red Robin
  • Robin
  • Batgirl
  • Batwoman
  • Orphan
  • Spoiler
  • Batwing
  • Azrael (Not Sure if he counts)
  • Batman Beyond (Terry - Also Not Sure if he technically counts)
  • Huntress (Not Sure)
  • Catwoman (Not Sure)
  • Bathound (Ace)
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stephens2177

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#14  Edited By stephens2177

I just reposted the list from the CBR forum,so some are cool imo,and others are what other posters liked.my.favs are kon-el,Scion,and S-13.

Kon and Jon are so different in every way,I don't get the one or the other idea.besides being a hybrid(not even the exact same DNA donors either),they have different powers,origins,personalities, histories,and don't get me started on how their relationship with Superman is WAY different .Kon is ready for his "next step",like dick,Wally,and Jason has had.

If you strip the flamboyant nature of 90s kon,he is the most unique and heroic version of Kon easily.not to mention with Jon here,and him filling roles Kon used to fill,having Kon actually be more like he was created to he is a smart way to make them stand apart from each other

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pcris

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@dernman: @jakai: Seriously? Jon is a 10 years old Superman's sidekick who doesn't stop to argue with Damian (with reason). That is the role that he is filling. He is a completely rookie: naive, clueless, with powers who are like a roaller coaster. You know he has cry in a couple arcs now.

The name and costume didn't mean anything if they didn't have a role for him. That is the truth. If not the end with something like Stephanie Brown.

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TheNomadicOne

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@z3ro180: If they bring back Kon, I definitely prefer the modern age/young justice tv show incarnation

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dernman

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@pcris said:

@dernman: @jakai: Seriously? Jon is a 10 years old Superman's sidekick who doesn't stop to argue with Damian (with reason). That is the role that he is filling. He is a completely rookie: naive, clueless, with powers who are like a roaller coaster. You know he has cry in a couple arcs now.

The name and costume didn't mean anything if they didn't have a role for him. That is the truth. If not the end with something like Stephanie Brown.

Superman shouldn't have a side kick.Honestly DC should get away from that type of thing with every character.

I'd rather a Superboy like on who makes his own role instead of being Clark 2.0. Ignoring that time they tried to do that with him. On top of that Kon has a difference in power set which is another plus in his favor an a minus in JK.

Also it ages Clark to be a father. Preflashpoint Superman spent too long aged. It was time to retread it but they messed that up in the N52 by writing UnSuperman.

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dernman

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@lvenger: Even if retconning Jon was possible, what benefits would Conner bring that Jon doesn't?

Diversity in powers, attitude, and his doing things his own way. It also doesn't take away from the uniqueness of Superman who's being watered down other characters. He also doesn't age and lock the Superman to a certain life point.

The father-son relationship doesn't work between them like it does with Jon.

Nor would I want them too. I like the separation the gap between Kon and Superman. I also like how their paths potentially don't always align in a way that Jon doesn't.

Besides, there's room for both Conner and Jon, Conner could get a Nightwing type identity if he comes back. To my recollection there are only 5 S's in the Superman Family, it's nowhere near as cluttered as the Bat Family.

That's still too much. Just because the problem isn't as big as the Bat family doesn't mean its not still a problem.

Look at Steel. that is a great way to add to the S family without watering the principle down.

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z3ro180

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@thenomadicone: same if they do bring him back then they will have to completely retcon new 52 kin away

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RDClip

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@dernman: What's the problem with having an older Superman? Being older and more mature fits the moral paragon type character that Superman is. And Jon won't lock Superman into a certain age because DC might let Jon grow up over time. Even then, Superman won't turn into an old man, Dick Grayson isn't a kid anymore and Bruce still looks like a guy in his 30's.

And DC literally just made a universe changing story to fit Jon into continuity, they can't retcon him (at least for a very long time)

As for having Jon and Kon; it's very possible. If people accept 4 Robins, then they can accept 2 Superboys. The Superman family, as it is now, doesn't feel bloated and overwrought like the Batman family. It might be because DC doesn't feel the need to constantly throw those characters in your face like they do with the Batman family.

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dernman

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#21  Edited By dernman

@rdclip: What's the problem with having an older Superman? Being older and more mature fits the moral paragon type character that Superman is.

There is nothing wrong with an older Superman but with a universe where you never really move on like comic books it can get stagnet. You need to start young and age them to a point. After awhile you need to retread the ages and start the process again. Superman was older for far too long pre flashpoint. One of the thingsthey tried to do with the N52 was make him younger. While that was great they mistakenly though that meant making him unSuperman like.

You don't even have to go so far as that. You can be ambiguous about it. Having a kid though locks in in the later stage in life or at least the post kid stage.

First I reject that being older would make makes him fit the moral paragon.

I reject that idea. It's through his action that make him that. Being older doesn't make someone fit a moral paragon any more than someone being young.. Also he doesn't get his morals from age, he gets them from how he was raised and who he is as a person.

And Jon won't lock Superman into a certain age because DC might let Jon grow up over time.

THat actually makes it worse. FIrst it does lock him into an age and with John growing up it makes the problem worse. Just because Superman isn't going grey haired old man looking doesn't mean he's not aged. A huge issue with comics today is the fact that the sidekicks age but then the main superhero gets put into this aged but pretend not mess

Even then, Superman won't turn into an old man, Dick Grayson isn't a kid anymore and Bruce still looks like a guy in his 30's.

And that is a problem. It seems to me you're naming problems and thinking there passes that make it ok. It's just more prpblems.

And DC literally just made a universe changing story to fit Jon into continuity, they can't retcon him (at least for a very long time)

There is a difference between can't and wont. THey can easily do it. They just wont. Which is a problem because now we're stuck with an aged post flashpoint Superman for longer. Might even be permanent because you know how DC hates getting rid of characters. They rarely do it. By doing this, instead of just going through a door gone though it and they've locked it.

As for having Jon and Kon; it's very possible. If people accept 4 Robins, then they can accept 2 Superboys.

I never said it wasn't possible I said it wasn't good. THe 4 Robins is the perfect example of why NOT to do it. As much as I like everyone well not Todd so much the 4 Robins thing is a terrible thing for the Batman universe. I've said many times that Batman should have stopped with Todd. Damian should have been out of continuity and them thinking something else up if they wanted Tim around. One of the problem is DC just wants every character included no matter how dumb it is. Just look at there now being two Wally Wests.

The Superman family, as it is now, doesn't feel bloated and overwrought like the Batman family. It might be because DC doesn't feel the need to constantly throw those characters in your face like they do with the Batman family.

Again just because it's not as bad as the Batman family it doesn't mean it's not bad. It's also now that we speak, before it gets too bad like it has with Batman because then it will be too late and no real turning back. Creating Jon as his biological son, the likely hood of them ever getting rid of him is very low.

It's not just the SUperman family bit the SUperman universe. Villains and heros. The ones connected to SUperman and not. Like the asian Superman and Super Woman. There was no need for those. Then there is Cyborg SUperman, that other villain introduced in N52 that I can't think of his name and Eradicator if he still has the S symbol.

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stephens2177

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This is not nor it should ever be Kon vs Jon,both have value,and one being published shouldn't make the other impossible to be published as well.

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Lvenger

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#23  Edited By Lvenger

@dernman:

Diversity in powers, attitude, and his doing things his own way. It also doesn't take away from the uniqueness of Superman who's being watered down other characters. He also doesn't age and lock the Superman to a certain life point.

All of Kon's unique characteristics can be done with Kon and Jon side by side co-existing at the same time. What about Jon specifically locks Superman down to a certain life point? Is it the whole "Superman as a dad" thing? Because Batman is still able to be Batman even though he has a biological son running around doing his own thing. Superman can still be Superman with Jon, he's been on several solo adventures already without Jon since Rebirth.

Nor would I want them too. I like the separation the gap between Kon and Superman. I also like how their paths potentially don't always align in a way that Jon doesn't.

Which is exactly why Conner can go off in a Nightwing type role whilst Jon stays as Superman's 'Robin' so to speak. I also don't think Jon's path always aligns with Clark's, his youth is a lot different from Clark's as he's had a more normal experience at school and his powers don't always prevent him from interacting the way Clark's did in his youth. Plus he is new at this superhero thing.

That's still too much. Just because the problem isn't as big as the Bat family doesn't mean its not still a problem.

Look at Steel. that is a great way to add to the S family without watering the principle down.

If there are S's that need to go to tone down any bloating problems, Jon should not be one of them. He's part of the reason why Superman comics are so popular at the moment.

Why is Jon not a great way to add to the Superman family without watering him down? If DC had just brought back Pre Flashpoint Superman without any unique changes, they might have been accused of cherry picking the Pre 52 characters. But they added in Jon to change the dynamic of the Superman Family and the Superman comics have greatly benefitted from this. They feel fresher and the stories are better than they've been in years, both Pre Flashpoint and New 52 Superman.

We normally have similar viewpoints but I simply can't see eye to eye with your perspective on Superman with a kid being a problem. The Fantastic Four have had kids for decades and they've been fine. Renew Your Vows was popular with the fans for bringing back Peter and Mary Jane's marriage with a kid. Why should they get rid of Superman's son when it's a natural progression of Superman's character and opens the door on more storytelling possibilities? There is surely room for both Conner and Jon in the same universe.

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ZariusII

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@lvenger Renew Your Vows was also cited by Marvel at the recent retailer summit as being one of the few older elements brought back that had worked for the company in a difficult financial period as it pertains to sales.

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stephens2177

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Kon could go do.his own thing(like he has most of his published existence),and only.show up in a Superman book once or twice a year.

This isn't a problem

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Lvenger

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@zariusii: Oh really? Which summit was that announced at? I don't recall Renew Your Vows selling super well lately.

Kon could go do.his own thing(like he has most of his published existence),and only.show up in a Superman book once or twice a year.

This isn't a problem

It's not for most people, just for those who doesn't really prefer Jon. Jon and Kon/Conner can co-exist at the same time, Conner is a fan favourite from before the reboot and a retconned Conner with none of the New 52 baggage would be sweet. He can probably handle his own title for a while if the right creative team have the right direction with the character.

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z3ro180

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@lvenger: maybe if they do bring him back just let him be in the superman comics for now and then after a few months give him his own book. Pulling a marvel and give ign a new character straight out the door is a bad movel

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stephens2177

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I think he would show up in a new YJ book before having his own series again.

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@z3ro180: Well, Tim Drake won't have anything to do when DC bring him back. Wonder Girl is also in limbo right now. I'd like to see Tim, Connor and Cassie (maybe Steph Brown too) get a team book. Might seem a little too Teen Titans when they don't really have a place on Damian's team, but I'd like those characters to get a book that isn't dependent on Superman or Batman.

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z3ro180

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@rdclip: that would be cool but I feel like it would clutter up the rebirth line somehow

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Knight101

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I hope so, as I hated Lobdell's take on the character. I preferred the version from 1995.

I just have one request: No T-Shirt and Jeans!

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@z3ro180: It's possible, but I think people would be willing to give the book a chance because they like Tim, Kon and Cassie and want them to be featured. It probably wouldn't sell amazingly, but with a good writer, it could be a solid mid-tier book.

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Lvenger

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@z3ro180: That's what I meant to say, he could debut in the Superman comics, be featured in a team book like Young Justice or something and if he gets enough attention then graduate to his own solo series. With the right build up it could be possible to give Conner his own successful solo.

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z3ro180

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@lvenger: I could see it happening like that but I wouldn't want to see him in a young justice comics, maybe have him and Tim start a new team, can't think of a name for it though.

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stephens2177

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Young Justice is the perfect name and series to Rebirth.the characters are popular,even if the new 52 versions are not at all,and the TV show will be coming back,and ppl will be looking for synergy.

Kon has been a consistent staple of DC since 1993,the SUPER family,the Legion,the Ravers,TT,and YJ,Kon has his roots in every side of the DCU,he is not a throwaway character Hy any means.

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NewWorldOrder

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I think they're gonna bring over Post-Crisis Superboy to the New 52.

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