@klaus: I'll start by saying that I'm not trying to convince you of anything here - I'm only sharing what I believe to be the truth. Yes it does say that God is one. The Most High God is one. But consider that the hebrew word used for God is Elohim, and that is plural meaning gods, as opposed to Elowah which is singular. This is why it's Elohim who says in the beginning, "let US make man in our image." People have been conditioned to think that the bible doesn't say that there are other gods, or elohim, but I choose to believe what's actually in the books and not what people are telling me it means. The literal translation of Genesis 1:26 is "And Elohim (gods) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

I can show the existence of multiple "gods" just out of the old testament. Jesus (the Word of God, the Son, and the Angel of God) is one of them and it's actually him who was interacting with humanity on Earth. The Most High God never left the throne. The problem is with our understanding of the word god and our reading of the scripture with a predetermined mindset. There's a reason the Most High God is called the Most High, it's because there are others beneath Him. There is the Ruwach (Spirit) and the Word (Jesus), and then there are the angels which are also called both elohim (gods) and bene ha'elohim (sons of God).

So yes, the Most High God is one individual and He has no equal. When you read in the new testament where it says that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are one it doesn't mean it in the sense that they are one individual. This is where a lot of christians go wrong. It actually means that they are united as one. Just like in Genesis 2:24 where it says, "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." It doesn't mean that they are one individual. It simply means that they are bonded and united as one. I don't know if you've gathered this or not already but I can't be a part of any mainstream religion out there because of the way I understand the bible. From my point of view, mainstream Christianity, Judaism, and Islam have all been carrying on incorrect teachings. I don't care for any of those "religions." I simply go by what's written in a number of different texts. So anyway, sorry. I didn't mean to start a debate about this so I won't go on from here. I'll just agree to disagree with you on your stance. Have a great day or night. c:

I think if u r saying superman as god den u dnt knw who is god.... for ex - odin is nt a god... Dey r immortals nd d only God in marvel is TOAA.... u got d wrong idea about gods.... as hulk says PUNY GOD!!

@starofelyon: I had this really detailed reply but I accidentally closed the page before I hit send so i'm going to summerise what I said.

Your entire argument is based on the word 'Elohim' meaning 'Gods' however this is where you are wrong. When the word 'Elohim' is used with a singular verb or adjective it directly translates to 'God' and 'the God'. In the context of the Old testament, this is the context its used in. This is further backed by the Arabic word for 'Elohim' which is 'Allah'. The big thing here is 'Allah' only translates to 'the God' which supports that God is one as is stated in the Final testament "No one is God except Allah". Further evidence that Jesus Christ wasn't the son of God is shown in "He is God, the One and Only God, the Eternal, Absolute. He begets not, nor is he begotten. And there is none like unto him."

So personal beliefs aside, on Comic Vine we go by consistency. One faith preaches Jesus Christ was God the son while two preach he wasn't, therefore putting aside our own beliefs we must conclude according to this website rulings on consistency that Jesus wasn't divine. He was just a prophet and messenger. In the case of Superman, he is also in a way a messenger, trying to bring love and peace. He however doesn't have a God complex.

Who is supporter of Super God Interpretation in writer?

I think it's a stretch to say Superman(an version) is compared to Jesus or God. He's tied to the cross in the farm fields in Smallville very different, they didn't torture him nor put nails in him, they Knocked him out with kryptonite and drew an "S" on his chest which they later confirmed was a "Smallville tradition" to pick the geek. Has nothing to do with Christianity.

Same for MOS, I think these people making comparisons with "Jesus and Superman" are grasping honestly. Considering Clark's an alien and due to such he has powers, Jesus had powers and is human son of God who became one with God. Entirely different elements.

I say this as a huge Superman fan and Christian.

Ok Jesus people how the hell is he not a god??? I mean the dude has the power to destroy a galaxy in its wake and that's not his strongest! I haven't seen or heard any god besides him and SOME dbz guys having those type of perks

This is how I always wanted to see him. John Byrne's run of him past-Crisis was, imho, the most human of all the Superman incarnations. One that people could look up to, but also know what he was vulnerable. I have a problem with today's comics is that they are all god-like in power levels, even Batman. For a man who's suppose to the peak of human he can beat up intergalactic, godlike beings.

Im going with the Super-alien concept too!!!

Clark Kent is just the mask for him to fit in with society.

I like Morrison's Super God concept.

People underestimetes his will that he never do harm to people. see Irredeemable, If Ordinary Person get Superman's power and play the role of Superman, people will finally become crazy like Plutonian. or People will have Superman's view and become Dr.Manhattann. Ordinary people are ants for person who have God like power. It is Superman's strong and good will that keep him human.

22:11 & 27:17

I love this, and I most definitely see him as a "god" like figure. I'm going to say this with total honesty, (in my well thought out opinon) it is impossible for a man that powerful to be good. If any of you want, I can elaborate (but I will spare you the rant if no one is interested)

@batshrine: Fine you have peeked my interest.

He is Superman.

Jesus is God's son. Issac Newton even said that worshiping Jesus was Idolitry. The only reason Jesus came to earth was to make people worship the person he prayed to, as well as the ransom sacrifice. He even said to Satan "Let God rebuke you", instead of doing anything himself.

I don't know about Superman but Henry Cavill is a God

Gods can't be killed by conventional means, Superman can(pretty easily by most characters Darkseid level or above). He's not a god, that would be like saying Saiyans are gods just because they one of the most powerful species in their universe.

@lance2legit2quit: There are many gods that can be killed by conventional means in comics.

@opis34 said:

Nope, the majority of comic book gods can only be killed by other characters god like in power. You put Superman against guys like Odin or the Phoenix force and he's splattered with ease. Superman is just an alien, you beat the crap out of him and he goes to hell like all the other mortals.

@lance2legit2quit: Gods in comics can be beat down with enough force as well. Characters like Thor, Hercules, and Ares have all shown if you keep hitting them hard enough they will die. In fact Sentry(a mortal) ripped Ares(a god) in half killing him.

That makes absolutely no sense. The methodology used for arguing which hero would win in a fight doesn't apply to trying to establish the historicity of a character from a bible.

I'm guessing when you refer to the 'final testament' you mean the Qu'ran? Despite being Abraham, it's pretty far from Judaism and Christianity, and I don't think it makes sense to conflate them as you have in this context.

@muyjingo: Islam and Judaism actually have more in common with each other than Christianity. While the Christian bible does include the Old Testament, most Christians disregard it as obsolete to the New Testament, and choose not to follow rules from the former that contradict the latter, or simply because they believe it doesn't apply to them. Also the core beliefs are the same in Judaism and Islam with regards to God, praying, what foods can be eaten, and fasting. This is why Jews don't pray in Churches but consider it lawful to pray in a Mosque (in the case that there are no Synagogues around).

The problem with knowing which methodology to use is that Jesus can be viewed by different users in different ways, i.e; real, fictional, god, son of god, human, demon etc. People will differ in views about Jesus, and so the only nuetral methodology would be to go by CV rules and use consistency. Otherwise we would just go in circles debating our personal views, which no one is willing to change and make an argument pointless. We could use historical documents outside of religion that claim there was a man, who was crucified at so time, because of so and so. But then there would be nothing to discuss.

It's not just Christians that selectively choose which parts of their bible to follow. All faiths do that. There are similarities between all the abrahamic religions, but I don't think it's correct to say that Islam is closer to Judasim than Christianity is. Judaism and Christianity still have more in common than with Islam. It's legal for Jews to pray in a mosque because a mosque is not a place of idolatry like a Christian church is. That's more of a coincidence than anything, and it doesn't imply anything about how close the two religions may be to each other when contrasted with Christianity.

And again, CV rules don't make sense in this context, at all. Just because there can be problems discussing the character due to personal views and such, doesn't mean it makes sense to use CV rules. That seems foolish to me.

Your using CV rules to try and argue that Jesus wasn't divine. You don't think that *isn't* foolish?

I know what you mean.. like damn..

@saint_sophie: Ohh Sophie. Haha ^^

@theblondegod: =]. He's just so.. asdkfl *stammers on what to say*

@saint_sophie: Ahhh now go melt in the corner. ;)

@theblondegod: *melts* ^__^.

@saint_sophie: Yeah I don't think a man can be more beautiful than that and unlike most guys blessed with incredible beauty, he's got a sweet gentle mien. Chris Hemsworth doesn't have that.

@foamborn: You know, I actually gotta agree with this lol.

@muyjingo: I never said only Christians do it.

The three Abrahamic religions all share similarities, however Christianity is more different when compared to Judaism and Islam. For example, the thing all three religions are built upon is the belief in God. While in Christianity it is believed that there are three Gods in one God-head (Father, son and Holy spirit), Judaism and Islam are strictly Monotheistic and teach that there is only one God. There are more things they have in common, ie, diet, prayer, rejection of idolatry etc that Christianity doesn't share.

So youre saying we shouldn't use CV rules on Comic Vine? But should rather just go by personal views? That seems more foolish than anything else.

He's neither...

He's a Super-Dick , the one that created the trope btw.

@hollowmode: ah, gotta love the golden age...remember when he made Lois fat and made fun of her?

@saint_sophie: @foamborn: I am a straight guy, but damn...Henry realy makes me question my sexuality...

@fuzzylittlerodent: Interesting. :).

@saint_sophie: And the fact that I have a pic of Lex Luthor as my avatar makes this twice as weird.

@fuzzylittlerodent: Oh haha. :)

@fuzzylittlerodent: Getting rid of the slums is the most famous one , kek supes left a lot of people homeless for a while

Nice thread. Although I always saw superman more as the embodiment of the american dream than religious subcontext, there are arguments for both views thanks to all the different writers and their individual takes on it.

Personally I've always seen the Kal-El persona as the "foreigner" coming to America, Clark Kent as the successfully integrated individual, and Superman ultimately being the american dream anthropomorphised.

But yes, I dont think anyone can argue superman represents the best of humanity. And thus becomes almost inhuman in doing so as he is incapable of failing. Ultimately I think religious subtext is becoming more and more prevalent these days since the "immigrant/ american dream" subtext is respectively becoming less and less relevant currently.

In the end, it's all in the name : he's a super man.

@opis34: So to keep it short on why I think it's impossible for a character like Superman to be good. Here is a long old blog post I posted when I noticed all the evil Supermen out there.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/batshrine/blog/evil-superman-the-new-norm/99464/

Lets be honest superman is a toon to kids like goku. Marvel is more to teenagers.

SM is strong but he cant defeat, only with roterism, minor gods like greek gods, darksaid, thanos, major gods like spectre he cant do anything spectre no feel the major punch of sm silver age.

Sm is is heavy weight of super heroes, captain atom can defeat him any time in diferent forms, like draim sun battery of him, people tink that superspeed of sm is everything, capt atom control time and space he can stop sm in space and do hat he want.

Green doc most powerfull version of hulk, can defeat sm with limitless power and your great intelect, is like batman (much more inteligent than batman) with power of hulk. Hulk is a "god" he is planet buster sm isnt (another lvl), only in silver age.

And other think christ is much, MUCH more than sm compare both is demonic. Sm is a bad chracter that hide your secret identid in a glasses, ridiculous.

@klaus:

So personal beliefs aside, on Comic Vine we go by consistency. One faith preaches Jesus Christ was God the son while two preach he wasn't, therefore putting aside our own beliefs we must conclude according to this website rulings on consistency that Jesus wasn't divine. He was just a prophet and messenger.

People will differ in views about Jesus, and so the only nuetral methodology would be to go by CV rules and use consistency.

So youre saying we shouldn't use CV rules on Comic Vine? But should rather just go by personal views? That seems more foolish than anything else.

Sorry, but this is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I have ever read here on CV. It is actually beyond ridiculous that you keep repeating it like it is some contract that we all agreed to and signed before we became members.

Sorry...but such BS needed to be called out.

SMH.

_____________________________

Cool article.

I don't find it to be at all strange that two Jewish men would use a Messianic motif/metaphor in the creation of Superman. But I can see your point once you begin to point out the more specifically Christological metaphors which I agree are also present.

Also, I think that any character in possession of such powers and such a view of humanity would inevitably begin to stray into territory which formerly had been addressed by gods and demi-gods in other literature and mythology. There are only so many categories which present potential encounters and issues such a person would have in relating to less powerful beings who would be operating from an entirely different perspective.

Alan Moore's riff on Superman in the Watchmen (Dr. Manhattan) is a perfect example of the dissonance and potential for ennui such a person could have.

@kuonphobos: That is your opinion and you can feel free to believe whatever you want. I also happen to think your reply is just absolute BS (above the separation line).

If you would rather go on personal beliefs then I dont see the point in arguing considering no one is going to change those personal beliefs no matter how hard we argue them.

Newsflash.

Ultimately we all perceive our reality through the lens of our personal beliefs, experiences, assumptions and presuppositions about reality. Even to suggest that any single person should jettison their own experience and capitulate to some groupthink norm is not only ridiculous it is unattainable.

But I agree, it isn't worth arguing because you are rightfully as unwilling to abandon your personal belief about this idea as I am.

See, sometimes the issue isn't about reaching an agreement...it is simply about respectfully considering the ideas of another despite however much you might disagree with them.

Some impossible, artificial and imaginary detente is no solution.

And capitulation to consensus is ridiculous.

the religious elements were some o the reasons I hated the MOS movie. & the most obvious was when he floated off of Zod's ship in a "cross" pose. & its not just because I dislike that "religion" ,but because I dont want some untalented hack trying to write a deep movie. & failing.

Whereas Marvel HAS an actual god, Thor either IS or inspired the myth, & yet they dont have any of the religious BS.

@cobramorph: In case you didn't know, Kal-El is a demi-god. His ancestor is Rao, the Sun God of Krypton. He even fought Cythonna, the Goddess of Ice.

Yes, "El" is the Jewish word meaning "God". Superman's Kryptonian name is "Kal-El", while his father's name is "Jor-El". Since both the son and the father are named "El", it has the connotation of the trinity.

There are MANY more Biblical connections to Jesus other than that, though. Superman's parents are name Jonathan Joseph and Martha Kent. Similar to Jesus' parents Joseph and Mary. In many versions, (Such as the Man of Steel movie), Jonathan dies, sometimes before Clark becomes Superman, leaving Martha a widow. According to church tradition, Joseph died before Jesus started his ministry, and the Bible sort of implies this was the case. Lois Lane is said to have been based on Mary Magdalene. She's more wild and "gets around" more than Superman because Mary Magdalene was a prostitute in Catholic tradition, before converting to Christianity. Lois Lane is Superman's love interest because of the rumor dating back to ancient times that Mary Magdalene and Jesus were a couple (Although there is no evidence this was actually the case, other than out of context apocryphal writings).

The Man of Steel movie goes even further. Superman being the first natural born son on Krypton in thousands of years is similar to Jesus' title "the only begotten Son of God". General Zod trying to overthrow Krypton's government and being sent to the Phantom Zone is similar to Satan's rebellion. Before the climax of the movie, Superman turns himself over to Zod, and remains on Zod's ship before returning to Earth, similar to Jesus' crucifixion and Jesus remaining in the grave, before being raised back from the dead and ensuring the salvation of mankind. I don't know where this came from, but its been said Clark Kent is 33 at the time Man of Steel takes place, which is the same age Jesus was when he was crucified.

Superman has many other Biblical connections, as well. Superman's story is also very similar to the story of Moses. When Moses was a baby, the Jews were slaves in Egypt. The Pharaoh ordered all male Jewish babies to be executed as a form of population control. Moses' parents put Moses in a small ark and sailed it in the Nile. He was found by Pharaoh's wife who adopted him. So you have parents giving up their child and putting him in a vessel in order to survive the destruction of his people.

Its also possible Superman's strength came from the Biblical story of Sampson, a judge in ancient Israel who had super strength. But it could have also been based on Hercules and other Greek heroes with super human strength.

As for all the people getting offended that Superman references religion, Superman is certainly NOT a religious figure. And even if he were, if you were to refuse to have anything to do with all media that was inspired by religions, then you'd be missing out on a large portion of classic literature, movies, and comicbooks. Lastly, Superman is not real and he is not really worshiped by anyone. Its stupid to get offended over something that is 100% fictional and doesn't even try to claim to have a basis in reality. Having said that, if you are religious, and you get these religious references, then Superman stories can be that much more meaningful for you.