Follow

    Superman

    Character » Superman appears in 18886 issues.

    Sent to Earth as an infant from the dying planet Krypton, Kal-El was adopted by the loving Kent family and raised in America's heartland as Clark Kent. Using his immense solar-fueled powers, he became Superman to defend mankind against all manner of threats while championing truth, justice, and the American way!

    Off My Mind: The Difficulties of Making Superman Cool

    Avatar image for baddamdog
    Baddamdog

    2836

    Forum Posts

    54199

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 7

    User Lists: 0

    #51  Edited By Baddamdog

    It's a sad fact but I don't think I'll ever consistently pick up a Superman title. The story-lines and hooks for his series' just don't interest me. Even when Grant Morrison came on board I only picked up Action Comics for a few issues, simply because the character doesn't interest me like the rest of the Justice League do.

    Avatar image for supermanfan1234
    supermanfan1234

    231

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #52  Edited By supermanfan1234

    @Manwhohaseverything said:

    What I've always found, is Superman's "Elseworlds" andMini/Maxi Series (Red Son, Birthright, The Nail, All-Star, etc, etc....) is what they tend to save all their "good ideas" for. The next time someone has a good idea for a Superman mini/maxi series. DC should say "Wait, can we use this as an arc for his regular series?"

    this

    Avatar image for beast_in_the_shadows
    Beast_in_the_Shadows

    433

    Forum Posts

    5

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 4

    User Lists: 0

    I don't mind his unflappable ideals. For me that's probably his one saving grace. I do get annoyed with how people seem to think that a character needs to be damaged or mired in moral quandaries to make them realistic. Yes, it is rare to find someone with an absolute code of honor that they hold to beyond anything else, but it isn't impossible and if such characters existed it would make sense that super heroes would have a little more than average of such individuals.

    It's his powers that put me off of Superman. He has too many and they are all far too off the charts. Not only does it mean his villains have to ridiculously powered for their battles to even make sense, but it also means that Clark just has it too easy. Because of his invulnerability, he is never mortally at risk. Because of his hearing and x-ray vision he stands little chance of ever being caught off guard. Lastly, thanks to his super speed, he never has to risk his identity or social life. Big Super fight then he can speed back into his civies and say "Sorry guys, I got stuck in traffic" He doesn't lose his job to protect the world, nor does he ever blow off a big date.

    In the end, he makes no form of sacrifice to be a hero, so how heroic is he? I mean i think most anyone would happily step in fornt of a gun aimed at an innocent if they knew that they wouldn't be harmed physically or socially.

    The best heroes are the ones who superheroes careers require a great cost. What makes them heroic is the fact that they are aware of these costs yet still choose to be a hero because they morally know it is the right thing to do. Spider-man is a very powerful individual, but fighting crime always interferes with his happiness. He has lost jobs, neglected friends, family, loved ones and even has to put up with the fact that many still don't think he is doing what is right. Batman more than anyone has sacrificed to do what is right. Bruce has willfully given up any idea of a personal happiness because he simply couldn't live with himself if he gave up and something happened that he could have prevented. He has a few friends that agree and understand his devotion, and every now and then he will find a relationship that he thinks can coincide with his life as Batman, but in the end he is aware that it is all there for only as long as his crime fighting lifestyle will allow it.

    Superman is certainly a nice guy, which is to be appreciated, but without this level of sacrifice he can never really be a great hero. Until he has to willingly give something up to keep on the fight, we will never see how important protecting people is to him.

    Avatar image for they_killed_cap_
    They Killed Cap!

    2268

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #54  Edited By They Killed Cap!

    When I was a youngster, I couldn't stand Superman, he was my dads go to ansswer for any debate Marvel Vs. DC. Since I have matured as a human being and a comic book reader I have really grown to appreciate him. He is great. He is typical. But when he fights doomsday to the death or he sacrifices himself in some rediculous situation, you can't help but be in awe.

    Avatar image for super_soldierxii
    Super_SoldierXII

    7664

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #55  Edited By Super_SoldierXII

    We need to boil things down. Look at our planet and her struggles, take real heartfelt tragedy occurring everyday on our planet ... all the wars, tyranny, starvation on a near global scale, over population and global warming, political and governmental corruption, torture poverty and depravity ravaging our third world countries and ghettos. Now, how would a superhuman being with near godly powers interact with such a world? How would they be challenged by it? Certainly the question of fate versus free will would be met with head on along with other tough decisions on their place in such a world?

    There are literally hundreds of very personal, powerful stories just waiting to be told. Now, imagine writing a 'super villain' as the primary force, or antagonist, driving each of these global threats behind the scenes. From all powerful, evil, aliens to human super genius' (like Luthor) conspiring with said powers whilst controlling the worlds wealth and resources from the shadows.

    Superman 'the boyscout' needs to be moved by very real tragedy, both personal and external, and in working to right the world from a personal level, is faced with battle and adversity by these powers controlling the earth from the shadows, driving the strife and discord on a global scale. How deep the rabbit whole goes is rife with possibility.

    Bottom line is, he needs to be written to share in the tragedy, pain and suffering of life, we need to relate to him on that level. Great to give him super morality (I don't think we need to take this away), but give him super pathos as well. Have him feel pain in realistic 'human' ways, and not always 'rise above' all too easily. Realistically, Superman or the Flash, all beings of their caliber, could eradicate most of the ills in our world in a fortnight.

    So many stories waiting to be told as to how and why it's just not that easy.

    I have so many stories in my own mind just waiting to be told ... all the great stories have been those who's realism touched us all very personally. C'mon DC, let's make Superman the icon everyone loves to read!

    Avatar image for gc8
    GC8

    2900

    Forum Posts

    78610

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1422

    User Lists: 8

    #56  Edited By GC8

    All of the issues you mention with Superman's 'coolness' factor are things that his writers should look to address. There are ways to make the character and the stories better if you look to those things. For one, he should be de-powered some. I have mentioned in some of my reviews the idea of 'power creep', that superheroes become more powerful over time as writer after writer add to the character. Remember, when Superman first started he couldn't even fly, he could merely leap tall buildings in a single bound. Return him to his original state of really damn powerful, but not all-powerful.

    Secondly, there IS a way to write good Superman stories - focus on what he IS. An outsider, nearly all-powerful god. All one has to do is look at the Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman runs on Miracleman. These stories pitted Miracleman against challenges, but also explored Nietzche-ian themes of the ubermensch and being 'Beyond Good and Evil'. Seriously, too often Superman's writers forget to put themselves in the shoes of a guy who can willingly or without a thought do things that nobody else can, yet has the responsibility for the whole planet on his shoulders - sometimes literally. This is why stories like 'Must There Be A Superman?' were so good. Sadly few have taken up that torch in the decades since.

    Avatar image for lvenger
    Lvenger

    36475

    Forum Posts

    899

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 50

    User Lists: 18

    #57  Edited By Lvenger

    @sethysquare said:

    See guys, I think you all might have mistaken the article. I don't think the article is trying to bring Superman down, but rather its trying to tell us why it is so difficult to write a good superman story. And if anything the past 11 issues of Superman proves that. I think thats what Gman is trying to say. Superman deserves better stories and the past 11 issues of Superman just does not seem to make it. We all know there are tons of great Superman villains out there. If you guys hang around Superman forums, you guys will know I'm kinda always there because I'm a huge fan. But even I can't help but be disappointed by some of the Superman comics and I think DC is right to switch out the writers because perhaps at this point of time, Jurgens or Perez just isn't suited to write Superman now.

    Gman is right. I don't care about invisible alien or anguish or predator. Hellspont just used Superman as a platform went into his usual wildstorm mojo. Where are all the great underused Superman villain? Why can't we just have some of that?

    What Gman said is true, Superman was too powerful in the silver age. Kryptonite was found readily everywhere. Superman was too much of a boyscout that he became one dimensional. Which is why all the great stories have him in some kinda conflict. Look at All Star Superman, the current AC, Secret Origins, Whats so funny about the truth, justice and the american way, earth one, kingdom come. All of them have Superman in some kinda conflict with himself, with someone or the public. Thats what we need. Good Stories. Which is why I'm hoping Scott Lobdell can do something to change that.

    One thing that I disagree with the article is that Superman indeed has plenty of iconic villain.

    General Zod, Metallo, Brainiac, Lex Luthor, Doomsday, Darkseid, Toyman, Parasite.

    But outside of these, it seems like alot of writers tend to look over the other great villains Superman has. What about Livewire, Bloodsport, Neutron, Conduit, Kryptonite Man, Jax Ur, Emil Hamilton?

    As far as I have known, reading the past few year's stories, these great villains that could have been recurring villains did not recur in any way. I'm not even talking about Imperiex or Mongul. But many of these villains are so under developed and I don't know why. But I have high hopes for Scott and I think he would do great taking over Superman from what he has been saying about Superman. Lets hope for the best. I'm subscribing to Gman's food for thought.

    Superman comics should have super-stories.

    And the current team isn't cutting it. Lets hope it gets better.

    Ah you've mistaken my points I've made. As I may have told you sethy, I have been extremely disgruntled with the Superman title. I put up with 9 rubbish issues of aliens I didn't care about, a failed opportunity to give Superman a new worthy rogue and a rehashed boring storyline. So I'm not reading it anymore. And I completely agree with the points you've made about it. And yes all the great Superman stories have involved a degree of conflict whilst in the end demonstrating how Superman's steadfast moral compass makes him a true example of how he acts as an example of what humanity can be.

    The next thing I'll mention is the villains. Superman has a plethora of great villains. Luthor, Brainiac, Metallo, Zod, Parasite. All these guys have been major players in various Superman stories. But perhaps Superman does need more good second stringer villains. Neutron, Satanus (magic is one of Superman's weaknesses) come to mind.

    Finally, I've done a little research (I have a lot of time now) and on average, Action Comics is the book that has the better writers and storylines. DC do seem to value that series so hopefully whoever takes over after Morrison will be another top notch writer. Most definitely recently, Superman has floundered under the radar which is pretty unacceptable to me.

    Avatar image for super_soldierxii
    Super_SoldierXII

    7664

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #58  Edited By Super_SoldierXII

    @hyenascar said:

    So alright, let's play this game. I hate superman. He is a boy scout. I can't relate because as much as we want to be perfect, our life lessons are groomed on our many mistakes. So his squeaky clean attitude is lame on the merits of watching a character improve. I get that It's necessary, for his character to be this way for the ethos of DC. He fits a niche that dc has paved the rest of their infrastructure on. I also understand why many like him. Several people see him as an ascension above the pain and troubles dealt with on a daily occurrence. We deal with an abundance of worship of "super" men in every aspect of society, whether it be sports, music, art, or whatever. We idolize those that can do what we only wish we could do. I can understand your fascination.

    But here is where this whole idea loses steam. Absolute power, corrupts absolutely. It's not just a clever statement or quip, it is a look into our psychology. The one with power is the one who decides societal norms and cultural influences.(i.e Huns, Greeks, Romans, English, Americans, Superboy Prime anyone,etc) It would stand to reckon he would try to force changes to improve the world in his sights, to which other heroes would take an exception. Which might be a comic I would read of his.

    For a good story to have any bite, it needs conflict. Well, superman is overpowered for most of the villains he fights, which makes his stories without any real conflict. It does not matter how you argue it , no real consequence = no conflict= bad story. Which lends to the many cries i've heard for a while, for Superman to be more cosmic oriented. The most fun i've had reading his comic were in fights with monghul or Darkseid.

    Maybe in the long run what superman needs, is a smart author who is not such a big superman fan,who is going to write a strory with their favorite villain. Maybe someone who can write him a story that truly puts him in peril. Why was court of owls such a big hit. Bruce Wayne, actually experienced self doubt, and batman was beaten repeatedly. He had to overcome and improve himself. Been a while for Supes. Give me a beaten superman, then we will see the true character of the "man". After all everyone can be heroic without controversy.

    Some very good points.

    Avatar image for kapitein_zeppos
    kapitein_zeppos

    360

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #59  Edited By kapitein_zeppos

    @Super_SoldierXII: @Super_SoldierXII said:

    We need to boil things down. Look at our planet and her struggles, take real heartfelt tragedy occurring everyday on our planet ... all the wars, tyranny, starvation on a near global scale, over population and global warming, political and governmental corruption, torture poverty and depravity ravaging our third world countries and ghettos. Now, how would a superhuman being with near godly powers interact with such a world? How would they be challenged by it? Certainly the question of fate versus free will would be met with head on along with other tough decisions on their place in such a world?

    There are literally hundreds of very personal, powerful stories just waiting to be told. Now, imagine writing a 'super villain' as the primary force, or antagonist, driving each of these global threats behind the scenes. From all powerful, evil, aliens to human super genius' (like Luthor) conspiring with said powers whilst controlling the worlds wealth and resources from the shadows.

    Superman 'the boyscout' needs to be moved by very real tragedy, both personal and external, and in working to right the world from a personal level, is faced with battle and adversity by these powers controlling the earth from the shadows, driving the strife and discord on a global scale. How deep the rabbit whole goes is rife with possibility.

    Bottom line is, he needs to be written to share in the tragedy, pain and suffering of life, we need to relate to him on that level. Great to give him super morality (I don't think we need to take this away), but give him super pathos as well. Have him feel pain in realistic 'human' ways, and not always 'rise above' all too easily. Realistically, Superman or the Flash, all beings of their caliber, could eradicate most of the ills in our world in a fortnight.

    So many stories waiting to be told as to how and why it's just not that easy.

    I have so many stories in my own mind just waiting to be told ... all the great stories have been those who's realism touched us all very personally. C'mon DC, let's make Superman the icon everyone loves to read!

    I think you'll find that the people who have the most problem with Superman being a boy scout are usually the ones who believe that a Liebfeld-style maniac- I mean Super "Hero" shooting people in the face with a bazooka is end-all cool. They yawn when you talk about moral dilemma or anything that requires them to use their brains.

    I made the same mistakes. I went from Superman, to Batman to Wolverine, to Dredd, to Image comics and the worst of the 90's and then I had re-educational electroshock therapy and I'm fine now. (screams)

    Avatar image for josedriveratcr7
    JoseDRiveraTCR7

    1020

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 2

    User Lists: 0

    #60  Edited By JoseDRiveraTCR7

    @sethysquare said:

    @Lvenger: @UltimateSMfan said:

    @LastSonBackUp said:

    @The Stegman said:

    I am really trying to restrain myself from going on a rant right now because these are the most common, and ignorant reasons to dislike Superman. -He's too "goody goody" and is a boyscout -He's too overpowered Both of these stem from ignorance from people who have probably either read really old Superman stories, or none at all and can be easily dis proven by simply READING A modern Superman story. I hear it all the time how "Oh he's too powerful" I know, god forbid a character named SUPERman to be super, and if you read his stories you will see the dangers he faces, the enemies he encounters often times are just as, or more power than he is, yet he puts his life on the line, like all superheroes to defeat them anyway.As a side note, for the him being overpowered argument, I find it a bit odd that people always pair him up against Marvel's Thor and it's quite a heated debate over who would win, yet I never hear a "Thor is too powerful" complaint. As for the other two reasons, -Him having bad villains. If the truth was the sun, this would be Pluto that's how far away it is from it. Lex Luthor to me is one of, if not THE greatest villain in comicbook history,How is in many ways symbolizes the worst in man, the greed, the deceptive nature, the distrust of others different and foreign to us, while Superman represents everything man can be, the good aspects, loyalty, respect, love, how Luthor is more than just an ''evil villain'' but rather believes he is truly doing the right thing by helping the world be rid of Superman and aliens like him. Just as the Joker is the opposite side of Batman, Luthor is the polar opposite of Superman (Sorry Bizarro) then you have General Zod, Metallo, Brainiac, Darkseid. I mean besides Batman, Spider-Man and Flash, No other hero has such an interesting group of rogues. -Him having bad stories Red Son, All Star, Birthright, The entire New Krypton Arc, Death of Superman, Up, up and Away, Secret Origins, For the man who has Everything, Whatever Happened to the Man Of Tomorrow say otherwise. Superman to me is the single greatest and most influential character to ever burst from a comic book and has done more for superheroes than any other character I can think of. You can make fun of him, his morals, what he stands for, but at the end of the day, he is the greatest superhero to ever ''live'' and in my opinion does more than just fight crime, he inspires us (both the reader, and the fictional characters he interacts with) to be better, to strive for a better tomorrow, and I for one will always be a Super fan.

    This post is absolutely spot on. No one really reads Superman comics, hence the ignorance that spews from their mouths is completely laughable.

    People think Superman is overpowered, but not once do I hear "Thor is overpowered" or "Hulk is overpowered", considering they have no weaknesses. Hulk's personality disorder? That is dead. That's not an excuse as a "weakness" anymore. Thor's "pride"? That's the past too. Seriously, people need to think outside the box. I feel as though fans criticize without reading, and the comments on this page seem to solidify that point.

    Guess what? If Superman just succumbed to every single piece of Kryptonite that was presented to him, how can the stories progress anywhere? *pulls out Kryptonite. Superman dies.* Really. That's what I'm reading from most of the comments posted on this page. Let's consider the fact that Superman has to struggle with his humanity and place in the world. Superman Grounded explored that. His place among the people of Earth that he loves and grew up with. No other character can capture that emotional tie to the people of Earth like Superman can. That's what I love about him. And in regards to Kryptonite, I'm pretty sure the YEARS of sun-exposure have given him the strength and the willpower to fight through it's radiation. Like you said, heaven forbid if a SUPERman is anything but. Lol. Ridiculous.

    People really speak without having any knowledge on anything. I don't know how relevant Batman is to comic readers, or to society in general, or to anyone really. Spider-Man is relateable. He's a teenager, struggling with his love life with Mary Jane, and he happens to be a superhero who has to carry New York City on his shoulders. Kind of a lot to bare for a teenager. Superman? The hero that all of us inspires to be. A larger than life individual who portrays the goodness that all human beings can do. The type of people they can become. And yet he still struggles with his humanity and his place among the people. I love that sense of humanity that Superman has. Batman? Yeah, let me kill my parents real quick. Lemme get back to you. Lol. And walk through the shadows with my smoke pellets like a ninja. Seriously, Batman is the least relateable character. Hulk? Let's get mad. And I don't think people want to relate to multiple personality disorder. Thor? Gods do not exist. Unless you want to take the "pride" aspect of Thor into account, but even Thor proved how too much pride is bad. Way to go, Odin! Teach him a lesson! Lol. Seriously, the most relateable comic characters in existence are Superman and Spider-Man. People just don't read Superman comics, hence why they spew ignorance from their mouths.

    And regarding Lex Luthor? I couldn't have said it better myself. Superman has an amazing rogues gallery. People just... I don't know. They just don't read Superman comics.

    oh my god,there are others like me out there!!(diehard Superfans).....u guys nailed it!!

    See guys, I think you all might have mistaken the article. I don't think the article is trying to bring Superman down, but rather its trying to tell us why it is so difficult to write a good superman story. And if anything the past 11 issues of Superman proves that. I think thats what Gman is trying to say. Superman deserves better stories and the past 11 issues of Superman just does not seem to make it. We all know there are tons of great Superman villains out there. If you guys hang around Superman forums, you guys will know I'm kinda always there because I'm a huge fan. But even I can't help but be disappointed by some of the Superman comics and I think DC is right to switch out the writers because perhaps at this point of time, Jurgens or Perez just isn't suited to write Superman now.

    Gman is right. I don't care about invisible alien or anguish or predator. Hellspont just used Superman as a platform went into his usual wildstorm mojo. Where are all the great underused Superman villain? Why can't we just have some of that?

    What Gman said is true, Superman was too powerful in the silver age. Kryptonite was found readily everywhere. Superman was too much of a boyscout that he became one dimensional. Which is why all the great stories have him in some kinda conflict. Look at All Star Superman, the current AC, Secret Origins, Whats so funny about the truth, justice and the american way, earth one, kingdom come. All of them have Superman in some kinda conflict with himself, with someone or the public. Thats what we need. Good Stories. Which is why I'm hoping Scott Lobdell can do something to change that.

    One thing that I disagree with the article is that Superman indeed has plenty of iconic villain.

    General Zod, Metallo, Brainiac, Lex Luthor, Doomsday, Darkseid, Toyman, Parasite.

    But outside of these, it seems like alot of writers tend to look over the other great villains Superman has. What about Livewire, Bloodsport, Neutron, Conduit, Kryptonite Man, Jax Ur, Emil Hamilton?

    As far as I have known, reading the past few year's stories, these great villains that could have been recurring villains did not recur in any way. I'm not even talking about Imperiex or Mongul. But many of these villains are so under developed and I don't know why. But I have high hopes for Scott and I think he would do great taking over Superman from what he has been saying about Superman. Lets hope for the best. I'm subscribing to Gman's food for thought.

    Superman comics should have super-stories.

    And the current team isn't cutting it. Lets hope it gets better.

    If I could follow you twice, sethysquare, I would.

    Avatar image for super_soldierxii
    Super_SoldierXII

    7664

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #61  Edited By Super_SoldierXII

    @kapitein_zeppos said:

    @Super_SoldierXII: @Super_SoldierXII said:

    We need to boil things down. Look at our planet and her struggles, take real heartfelt tragedy occurring everyday on our planet ... all the wars, tyranny, starvation on a near global scale, over population and global warming, political and governmental corruption, torture poverty and depravity ravaging our third world countries and ghettos. Now, how would a superhuman being with near godly powers interact with such a world? How would they be challenged by it? Certainly the question of fate versus free will would be met with head on along with other tough decisions on their place in such a world?

    There are literally hundreds of very personal, powerful stories just waiting to be told. Now, imagine writing a 'super villain' as the primary force, or antagonist, driving each of these global threats behind the scenes. From all powerful, evil, aliens to human super genius' (like Luthor) conspiring with said powers whilst controlling the worlds wealth and resources from the shadows.

    Superman 'the boyscout' needs to be moved by very real tragedy, both personal and external, and in working to right the world from a personal level, is faced with battle and adversity by these powers controlling the earth from the shadows, driving the strife and discord on a global scale. How deep the rabbit whole goes is rife with possibility.

    Bottom line is, he needs to be written to share in the tragedy, pain and suffering of life, we need to relate to him on that level. Great to give him super morality (I don't think we need to take this away), but give him super pathos as well. Have him feel pain in realistic 'human' ways, and not always 'rise above' all too easily. Realistically, Superman or the Flash, all beings of their caliber, could eradicate most of the ills in our world in a fortnight.

    So many stories waiting to be told as to how and why it's just not that easy.

    I have so many stories in my own mind just waiting to be told ... all the great stories have been those who's realism touched us all very personally. C'mon DC, let's make Superman the icon everyone loves to read!

    I think you'll find that the people who have the most problem with Superman being a boy scout are usually the ones who believe that a Liebfeld-style maniac- I mean Super "Hero" shooting people in the face with a bazooka is end-all cool. They yawn when you talk about moral dilemma or anything that requires them to use their brains.

    I made the same mistakes. I went from Superman, to Batman to Wolverine, to Dredd, to Image comics and the worst of the 90's and then I had re-educational electroshock therapy and I'm fine now. (screams)

    Lol.

    Yeah, that's true too.

    But if you think of many of the stories that stand out from Miller, Morrison (even Ennis to an albeit limited degree) and their ilk, violence with purpose, touched by humanity and emoted with realism can touch home on a very moving, emotional level. And that's when you start relating to a character and that's where the magic of a character comes to life. So Superman resorting to gritty violence on this level can still keep pace with his virtue if driven by necessity, fantastic plot and meaningful feeling. It doesn't need to piss all over his morals.

    Mindless violence is a tribute to cheap thrills and is very short lived. Superman should never be degraded or tainted by such thoughtless and uncreative storytelling.

    Consequently, speaking of the Miller days, and seeing as how you brought him up, Wolverine is in desperate need of a revamp himself. I mean, speaking of cheap thrills, he's gone from Samurai to Ronin of the worst kind. He's all over the place. A mutant of his skill and enhancements, him popping his claws should only happen rarely and when we hear the SNIKT it should be meaningful. After all, it hurts him each time, why pop the claws for nothing? The claws should be seen only when he needs to cross the line and take a life. When we hear the SNIKT we should all stand to attention and think "Oh man, now the sh!t's hit the fan". There is absolutely no reason for him using his claws half the time. He could be written as the martial bada$$ he really is if his claws were written as a last ditch necessary evil type resort. The samurai never draws his sword unless he needs to draw blood. Same should be the case with Logan's claws.

    Old Man Logan was the last good story I've read of his. But I digress terribly here ...

    Avatar image for sethysquare
    sethysquare

    3965

    Forum Posts

    150

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 1

    #62  Edited By sethysquare

    @JoseDRiveraTCR7: aww, how sweet. thanks :)

    Avatar image for josedriveratcr7
    JoseDRiveraTCR7

    1020

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 2

    User Lists: 0

    #63  Edited By JoseDRiveraTCR7

    I think when people say that Superman is too good they mean that he can come off like a stiff. As a Superman fan, I have to admit that sometimes people write him like a middle age square (I know, square is an out of date term, but that's the only word I could think of).

    Avatar image for herx
    Herx

    532

    Forum Posts

    624

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 86

    User Lists: 1

    #64  Edited By Herx

    Im pretty sure that most of these reasons for why people think that superman is uncool or not a character that they like just stems from his silver age incarnation more than anything.

    He's to goody-good? well yes, but not becasue he is for the sake of being good. He was raised by a good family with good values about whats right and wrong. Other characters (al-a batman) don't act all goody-good because they've been stunted in their development as a person or have been raised with different values. Plus Superman is meant to represent the man of tomorrow. the man who can make calm and just desicions. Plus the whole "goody-good" has allowed for some great villains to judge him. "why is he so nice all of the time? he must have something sinister planed to put on such a facade", getting the human characters to overthink the situation and see danger where there isn't. It's how others react off of it which is the essence of the story.

    To powerfull? Well in the silver age he did have like one singular weekness and an arsenal of power to pretty much rule the world with, but as time has gone on his powers and their limitations have become more clear. Kryptonite is a weekness, yes. Its radiation, but with the development of how it also affects human physiology (lex luthors cancer due to prolonged expossure to kryptonite) it isn't used as much due to the double sided sword affect it has. He's also suseptable to magic, and considdering the large amount of magic users in the DC universe that'a allot of potential enemies. Even a red sun has been used to de-power him before. He;s not as powerfull as he used to be, a powerfull enough artillary round can knock him out and even shown in the new run of action comics where the goverment is able to caputre superman and hold him prisoner. He's strong yes, but people always over esstimate his strength due to the silverage.

    Villains? He's got great villains. They're his counterparts in many ways but it just comes down to stories and use of the characters.

    Superman has had great stories told about him, It's just that people now tend to like the "darker" and "grittier" stuff that developed in the batman book after Frank Miller wrote Year one and Dark Knight Returns and want to see that sort of story with superman. The problem there is, is that even that darker and grittier stuff is being dissmissed now by writers for personal psycological stories (recent batman) or just breaking off compleatly from the gritty to see the chartacter in a new light (deardevil) and that the darker stuff won't work for superman due to his character in general. It'd be like having the teen titans star in stories bassed about midlife issues, its not their stuff.

    There are just some people who just say that they cant relate to the character because he's to powerfull and alien to relate to. To that i say "What! If anything Superman is the most relatable character in the DC unverse, or to rephrase that, Clark Kent is the most relatable chartacter in the DCU. He's a smalltown kid who moved to the big city, lives in a small appartment, works a 9-5 job at a newspaper and gets minimum pay for that. He's clumbsy, awkward and travells using the bus or train. He's pretty much You and me. I do you relate more to that, or are you secretly a billionair playboy with a buttler? He's the most relatable character in comics (which is also why people wouldnt even think that Clark Kent and Superman are one and the same. Ones seen as the perfect man, the other is just that guy you sit next to on the train, no way that their going to be the same person). Someone even told me that they aren;t a big fan of superman but LOVE Clark Kent.

    I think it all comes down to writing, and esspecially in the new 52 where they said that they wanted to try and connect Superman closer to his alien routs is where i see the flaws. Supermans connection to Krypton may have given him his powers, but he was raised human and is in all other respects human. We dont have explore his alien side as it only plays a small part in who he is. What i think should happen is that there should be another superman related title like a "daily planate" comics where we explore the lives of the secondary characters with Clark Kent being a secondary character in that. Strengthen the individuality of the secret identity and then strengthen superman.

    Avatar image for sethysquare
    sethysquare

    3965

    Forum Posts

    150

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 1

    #65  Edited By sethysquare

    @Lvenger said:

    Ah you've mistaken my points I've made. As I may have told you sethy, I have been extremely disgruntled with the Superman title. I put up with 9 rubbish issues of aliens I didn't care about, a failed opportunity to give Superman a new worthy rogue and a rehashed boring storyline. So I'm not reading it anymore. And I completely agree with the points you've made about it. And yes all the great Superman stories have involved a degree of conflict whilst in the end demonstrating how Superman's steadfast moral compass makes him a true example of how he acts as an example of what humanity can be.

    The next thing I'll mention is the villains. Superman has a plethora of great villains. Luthor, Brainiac, Metallo, Zod, Parasite. All these guys have been major players in various Superman stories. But perhaps Superman does need more good second stringer villains. Neutron, Satanus (magic is one of Superman's weaknesses) come to mind.

    Finally, I've done a little research (I have a lot of time now) and on average, Action Comics is the book that has the better writers and storylines. DC do seem to value that series so hopefully whoever takes over after Morrison will be another top notch writer. Most definitely recently, Superman has floundered under the radar which is pretty unacceptable to me.

    Not sure if you made any points. LOL I'm confused, you only agreed to someone else's post right?

    But yes, I do feel the same way you do that Superman title have not been up to par. But I have honestly been enjoying every single issue of Action and I have not been unhappy about any single issue. Yes Superman title isn't killing it right now, but if we think about it, there is so many other great Superman title. Action Comics, Superman Earth One, Smallville, Superman Beyond, Superman family adventures, which I'm getting all of em. Come #0, I have confident that we would be seeing yet another great Superman title added to the list. Plus like I've said before, Man of Steel is coming up, DC wouldn't allow just a random person to take over Action Comics.

    Avatar image for the_stegman
    the_stegman

    41911

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    #66  Edited By the_stegman  Moderator
    @sethysquare:  
     


    @Lvenger@UltimateSMfan said:

    @LastSonBackUp said:

    @The Stegman said:

    I am really trying to restrain myself from going on a rant right now because these are the most common, and ignorant reasons to dislike Superman. -He's too "goody goody" and is a boyscout -He's too overpowered Both of these stem from ignorance from people who have probably either read really old Superman stories, or none at all and can be easily dis proven by simply READING A modern Superman story. I hear it all the time how "Oh he's too powerful" I know, god forbid a character named SUPERman to be super, and if you read his stories you will see the dangers he faces, the enemies he encounters often times are just as, or more power than he is, yet he puts his life on the line, like all superheroes to defeat them anyway.As a side note, for the him being overpowered argument, I find it a bit odd that people always pair him up against Marvel's Thor and it's quite a heated debate over who would win, yet I never hear a "Thor is too powerful" complaint. As for the other two reasons, -Him having bad villains. If the truth was the sun, this would be Pluto that's how far away it is from it. Lex Luthor to me is one of, if not THE greatest villain in comicbook history,How is in many ways symbolizes the worst in man, the greed, the deceptive nature, the distrust of others different and foreign to us, while Superman represents everything man can be, the good aspects, loyalty, respect, love, how Luthor is more than just an ''evil villain'' but rather believes he is truly doing the right thing by helping the world be rid of Superman and aliens like him. Just as the Joker is the opposite side of Batman, Luthor is the polar opposite of Superman (Sorry Bizarro) then you have General Zod, Metallo, Brainiac, Darkseid. I mean besides Batman, Spider-Man and Flash, No other hero has such an interesting group of rogues. -Him having bad stories Red Son, All Star, Birthright, The entire New Krypton Arc, Death of Superman, Up, up and Away, Secret Origins, For the man who has Everything, Whatever Happened to the Man Of Tomorrow say otherwise. Superman to me is the single greatest and most influential character to ever burst from a comic book and has done more for superheroes than any other character I can think of. You can make fun of him, his morals, what he stands for, but at the end of the day, he is the greatest superhero to ever ''live'' and in my opinion does more than just fight crime, he inspires us (both the reader, and the fictional characters he interacts with) to be better, to strive for a better tomorrow, and I for one will always be a Super fan.

    This post is absolutely spot on. No one really reads Superman comics, hence the ignorance that spews from their mouths is completely laughable.

    People think Superman is overpowered, but not once do I hear "Thor is overpowered" or "Hulk is overpowered", considering they have no weaknesses. Hulk's personality disorder? That is dead. That's not an excuse as a "weakness" anymore. Thor's "pride"? That's the past too. Seriously, people need to think outside the box. I feel as though fans criticize without reading, and the comments on this page seem to solidify that point.

    Guess what? If Superman just succumbed to every single piece of Kryptonite that was presented to him, how can the stories progress anywhere? *pulls out Kryptonite. Superman dies.* Really. That's what I'm reading from most of the comments posted on this page. Let's consider the fact that Superman has to struggle with his humanity and place in the world. Superman Grounded explored that. His place among the people of Earth that he loves and grew up with. No other character can capture that emotional tie to the people of Earth like Superman can. That's what I love about him. And in regards to Kryptonite, I'm pretty sure the YEARS of sun-exposure have given him the strength and the willpower to fight through it's radiation. Like you said, heaven forbid if a SUPERman is anything but. Lol. Ridiculous.

    People really speak without having any knowledge on anything. I don't know how relevant Batman is to comic readers, or to society in general, or to anyone really. Spider-Man is relateable. He's a teenager, struggling with his love life with Mary Jane, and he happens to be a superhero who has to carry New York City on his shoulders. Kind of a lot to bare for a teenager. Superman? The hero that all of us inspires to be. A larger than life individual who portrays the goodness that all human beings can do. The type of people they can become. And yet he still struggles with his humanity and his place among the people. I love that sense of humanity that Superman has. Batman? Yeah, let me kill my parents real quick. Lemme get back to you. Lol. And walk through the shadows with my smoke pellets like a ninja. Seriously, Batman is the least relateable character. Hulk? Let's get mad. And I don't think people want to relate to multiple personality disorder. Thor? Gods do not exist. Unless you want to take the "pride" aspect of Thor into account, but even Thor proved how too much pride is bad. Way to go, Odin! Teach him a lesson! Lol. Seriously, the most relateable comic characters in existence are Superman and Spider-Man. People just don't read Superman comics, hence why they spew ignorance from their mouths.

    And regarding Lex Luthor? I couldn't have said it better myself. Superman has an amazing rogues gallery. People just... I don't know. They just don't read Superman comics.

    oh my god,there are others like me out there!!(diehard Superfans).....u guys nailed it!!

    See guys, I think you all might have mistaken the article. I don't think the article is trying to bring Superman down, but rather its trying to tell us why it is so difficult to write a good superman story. And if anything the past 11 issues of Superman proves that. I think thats what Gman is trying to say. Superman deserves better stories and the past 11 issues of Superman just does not seem to make it. We all know there are tons of great Superman villains out there. If you guys hang around Superman forums, you guys will know I'm kinda always there because I'm a huge fan. But even I can't help but be disappointed by some of the Superman comics and I think DC is right to switch out the writers because perhaps at this point of time, Jurgens or Perez just isn't suited to write Superman now.

    Gman is right. I don't care about invisible alien or anguish or predator. Hellspont just used Superman as a platform went into his usual wildstorm mojo. Where are all the great underused Superman villain? Why can't we just have some of that?

    What Gman said is true, Superman was too powerful in the silver age. Kryptonite was found readily everywhere. Superman was too much of a boyscout that he became one dimensional. Which is why all the great stories have him in some kinda conflict. Look at All Star Superman, the current AC, Secret Origins, Whats so funny about the truth, justice and the american way, earth one, kingdom come. All of them have Superman in some kinda conflict with himself, with someone or the public. Thats what we need. Good Stories. Which is why I'm hoping Scott Lobdell can do something to change that.

    One thing that I disagree with the article is that Superman indeed has plenty of iconic villain.

    General Zod, Metallo, Brainiac, Lex Luthor, Doomsday, Darkseid, Toyman, Parasite.

    But outside of these, it seems like alot of writers tend to look over the other great villains Superman has. What about Livewire, Bloodsport, Neutron, Conduit, Kryptonite Man, Jax Ur, Emil Hamilton?

    As far as I have known, reading the past few year's stories, these great villains that could have been recurring villains did not recur in any way. I'm not even talking about Imperiex or Mongul. But many of these villains are so under developed and I don't know why. But I have high hopes for Scott and I think he would do great taking over Superman from what he has been saying about Superman. Lets hope for the best. I'm subscribing to Gman's food for thought.

    Superman comics should have super-stories.

    And the current team isn't cutting it. Lets hope it gets better. 

    Oh no, I completely agree, my little rant wasn't aimed at G Man at all, he speaks the truth. Like you said, the current Superman run has been just dreadful, mediocre ''villains of the week'' that no one (including me) really cares about, bland dialogue, it has been the second most disappointing title out of the New 52, besides Green Arrow, another character I love that is now written poorly. Alas, My complaint was to the masses out their who used the points G Man brought up to blindly hate Superman without giving him a fair chance.
    Avatar image for derfelmacklin
    DerfelMacklin

    33

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #67  Edited By DerfelMacklin

    @Night Thrasher said:

    4. DC seems to have a Superman solves everything policy.

    Replace Superman with Batman and this statement would be correct. The difference is people just accept it with Batman. Take the latest issue of Justice League for example. Bats was the first to beat Graves' psychic pain thing, the first to find every single damn clue while the rest of them just stood around and went "Golly, thanks for being the group's brain Mr. Batman."

    What we all need is more All Star Superman, Superman Versus the Elite, TAS type stories. Stories where Superman's allowed to be smart, awesome, and cut loose. Stories where Superman can be put through the ringer and come up roses the other side. Sadly writers these days just want to drag Superman down to our level and show him as as unthinking brute who gets led around by everybody instead of being the light that shows the way.

    Avatar image for cc1738
    cc1738

    371

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    #68  Edited By cc1738

    Superman is my favorite superhero, but his comic always sucks. :( I have high hopes for Lobdell since Superman and Action Comics have both been unreadable.

    Avatar image for mrzero1982pt2
    mrzero1982pt2

    423

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #69  Edited By mrzero1982pt2

    when you are writing superman, essentially you are writing a GOD. he has so many powers. he can fly, super speed. he can beat or catch up with the flash. heat vision, x-ray vision, breath, no need to breathe or eat. who remembers "for tomorrow" when he saw the tumor in the priest but would do nothing? the man has every power you could think of. think of what would happen if a writer said "hm, lets make superman access the speed force!" heck, he is powered by a YELLOW SUN! but there is NO yellow sun when he is in DEEP SPACE! so how does he still fly? see where i am going with this? it is boring reading about a god, it is complicated and daunting writing about a god. that is why folks like action comics now. he doesnt have all of his abilities yet.

    Avatar image for jointron33
    jointron33

    2107

    Forum Posts

    69

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 3

    User Lists: 12

    #70  Edited By jointron33

    Anyone who hates Superman but loves the Frank Miller-esque depiction of "Bat-God" can go live under a rock.....wait....they already are

    Avatar image for sethysquare
    sethysquare

    3965

    Forum Posts

    150

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 1

    #71  Edited By sethysquare

    @The Stegman: That is true. I think people just need to give Superman a chance. I'm hoping with the new Man of Steel next year, it would invigorate people's interest in him. He isn't just a boyscout, he is the greatest superhero ever lived.

    Avatar image for bluelantern1995
    BlueLantern1995

    3237

    Forum Posts

    7086

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 2

    User Lists: 26

    #72  Edited By BlueLantern1995

    IF they improved on all those areas I think I actually would like him.

    Avatar image for derfelmacklin
    DerfelMacklin

    33

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #73  Edited By DerfelMacklin

    @mikeclark1982 said:

    when you are writing superman, essentially you are writing a GOD. he has so many powers. he can fly, super speed. he can beat or catch up with the flash. heat vision, x-ray vision, breath, no need to breathe or eat. who remembers "for tomorrow" when he saw the tumor in the priest but would do nothing? the man has every power you could think of. think of what would happen if a writer said "hm, lets make superman access the speed force!" heck, he is powered by a YELLOW SUN! but there is NO yellow sun when he is in DEEP SPACE! so how does he still fly? see where i am going with this? it is boring reading about a god, it is complicated and daunting writing about a god. that is why folks like action comics now. he doesnt have all of his abilities yet.

    And yet just as others have been saying writers have no problem making great Thor(an actual full on god) stories when they want to. The problem with Superman is that writers and general audiences are too afraid of Superman, they get bogged down in their dated preconceptions, and don't go near him. They can't accept his boy scout-ness but they can in Captain America and find it endearing, they can't accept his God-like status, but they can accept that in Thor. Hell, I've seen people complain about the social crusader bit too. People (DC brass included) these days just seem to want to keep Superman down. Also interesting to note, a lot of the time you get the impression American writers feel the need to apologize for Superman's strength and downplay it as much as possible, yet British ones like Grant Morrison or James Robinson revel in it.

    Avatar image for einmyria
    Einmyria

    33

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #74  Edited By Einmyria

    @Night Thrasher said:

    I've been saying mostly this for years. I wonder if G-Man gets the $#!+storm that I get.

    1. Superman is the strongest on DC EARTH. He'd be a lot cooler if he were cosmic and were matched up against some true threats.

    That would be really interesting.

    Avatar image for nightfang3
    NightFang3

    12416

    Forum Posts

    397487

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 3

    #75  Edited By NightFang3

    @mikeclark1982 said:

    when you are writing superman, essentially you are writing a GOD. he has so many powers. he can fly, super speed. he can beat or catch up with the flash. heat vision, x-ray vision, breath, no need to breathe or eat. who remembers "for tomorrow" when he saw the tumor in the priest but would do nothing? the man has every power you could think of. think of what would happen if a writer said "hm, lets make superman access the speed force!" heck, he is powered by a YELLOW SUN! but there is NO yellow sun when he is in DEEP SPACE! so how does he still fly? see where i am going with this? it is boring reading about a god, it is complicated and daunting writing about a god. that is why folks like action comics now. he doesnt have all of his abilities yet.

    This is way they need to put limits on Sup's powers, like lets say his heat-vision makes him temporary blind so he doesn't use it as much, giving him strength and speed levels,..etc.

    Avatar image for sethysquare
    sethysquare

    3965

    Forum Posts

    150

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 1

    #76  Edited By sethysquare

    I just like to say this is a really good article and I think this is a much better article than the horrible one that ifanboy wrote a few months ago. I got so pissed I stopped going there. Apparently according to ifanboy

    Superman was the worst superhero ever created, a flawed character with zero redeeming features, and to even try to like him, to even try to hope that the books would be good, was folly because the character itself was worthless.

    Its ridiculous.

    I have found the Superman comics to be have been pretty awful for the past few years, and they have done nothing to help the negative image of Superman
    So it looks like they changed him up, but now that they have changed him, he’s less likable and more irritating than ever.
    Action Comics is now just a “normal” Superman book, with his new lame costume and stupid, toothy grin.

    I swore never to step into that site again.

    Avatar image for mcaraballo
    mcaraballo

    5

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #77  Edited By mcaraballo

    I wish i was involved in comics im not a writer but i Got some Cool ideas how to make superman cool, without changing his character. I think now more than ever Supermans morals need to be highlighted greatly. Superman needs new challenges, new supporting characters and epic Adventure/Battles. I loved super man growing up but outside of his death and return Got me super excited but then when he returned all went back to normal and it got ... boring.. they are epic stories but then inbetween it getes boring who wants to pick up an issue every month? im glad they changed the costume. I think that superman needs to go the tony stark way. everyone should know clark is superman or there should be no more clark kent. or have a holographic device where he looks diffrent, the goofy clumsy and glasses doesnt work anymore. or he is someone else now a new other person. I agree that superman needs a life change new women in his life maybe being a father? or adopting a super and looking out for him her perhaps? A cool story like maybe (its been used already) but what if something happends to superman that he just turns evil and takes over metropolis and starts to spread to the world and all the heroes have to take him down. have this span for a summer or season, than afterwards some lose trust in him because of the lives he took and he has to rebuild himself to be trusted again. even heroes need forgiveness and cant be perfect. Wish i was in comics i have so many ideas. What do you guys think what story would you want to see? rather than saying what sucks what can make superman better? what would make you run and get your red towel and put it around your neck and hum the theme song like i did as a kid?

    Avatar image for danhimself
    danhimself

    21433

    Forum Posts

    36958

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 3

    #78  Edited By danhimself

    @The Stegman said:

    I am really trying to restrain myself from going on a rant right now because these are the most common, and ignorant reasons to dislike Superman. -He's too "goody goody" and is a boyscout -He's too overpowered Both of these stem from ignorance from people who have probably either read really old Superman stories, or none at all and can be easily dis proven by simply READING A modern Superman story. I hear it all the time how "Oh he's too powerful" I know, god forbid a character named SUPERman to be super, and if you read his stories you will see the dangers he faces, the enemies he encounters often times are just as, or more power than he is, yet he puts his life on the line, like all superheroes to defeat them anyway.As a side note, for the him being overpowered argument, I find it a bit odd that people always pair him up against Marvel's Thor and it's quite a heated debate over who would win, yet I never hear a "Thor is too powerful" complaint. As for the other two reasons, -Him having bad villains. If the truth was the sun, this would be Pluto that's how far away it is from it. Lex Luthor to me is one of, if not THE greatest villain in comicbook history,How is in many ways symbolizes the worst in man, the greed, the deceptive nature, the distrust of others different and foreign to us, while Superman represents everything man can be, the good aspects, loyalty, respect, love, how Luthor is more than just an ''evil villain'' but rather believes he is truly doing the right thing by helping the world be rid of Superman and aliens like him. Just as the Joker is the opposite side of Batman, Luthor is the polar opposite of Superman (Sorry Bizarro) then you have General Zod, Metallo, Brainiac, Darkseid. I mean besides Batman, Spider-Man and Flash, No other hero has such an interesting group of rogues. -Him having bad stories Red Son, All Star, Birthright, The entire New Krypton Arc, Death of Superman, Up, up and Away, Secret Origins, For the man who has Everything, Whatever Happened to the Man Of Tomorrow say otherwise. Superman to me is the single greatest and most influential character to ever burst from a comic book and has done more for superheroes than any other character I can think of. You can make fun of him, his morals, what he stands for, but at the end of the day, he is the greatest superhero to ever ''live'' and in my opinion does more than just fight crime, he inspires us (both the reader, and the fictional characters he interacts with) to be better, to strive for a better tomorrow, and I for one will always be a Super fan.

    AGREED!!!!!

    I hate it when people say that Superman is unrelatable....he's not supposed to be! Superman is supposed to be the person we look up to and strive to be...he's not Spider-man or Nightwing in that he's an everyday kind of guy...he's Superman...he's meant to inspire people to do better

    I still feel that in my eyes that the Man of Steel is going to fail because from everything I've seen it appears to me that they're going to try and turn Superman into a dark, gritty, brooding character and that's simply not Superman...if you have to change everything about a character to make a good story then you shouldn't be writing that character..plain and simple

    Avatar image for suprman
    Suprman

    458

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 11

    User Lists: 2

    #79  Edited By Suprman

    @The Stegman said:

    I am really trying to restrain myself from going on a rant right now because these are the most common, and ignorant reasons to dislike Superman. -He's too "goody goody" and is a boyscout -He's too overpowered Both of these stem from ignorance from people who have probably either read really old Superman stories, or none at all and can be easily dis proven by simply READING A modern Superman story. I hear it all the time how "Oh he's too powerful" I know, god forbid a character named SUPERman to be super, and if you read his stories you will see the dangers he faces, the enemies he encounters often times are just as, or more power than he is, yet he puts his life on the line, like all superheroes to defeat them anyway.As a side note, for the him being overpowered argument, I find it a bit odd that people always pair him up against Marvel's Thor and it's quite a heated debate over who would win, yet I never hear a "Thor is too powerful" complaint. As for the other two reasons, -Him having bad villains. If the truth was the sun, this would be Pluto that's how far away it is from it. Lex Luthor to me is one of, if not THE greatest villain in comicbook history,How is in many ways symbolizes the worst in man, the greed, the deceptive nature, the distrust of others different and foreign to us, while Superman represents everything man can be, the good aspects, loyalty, respect, love, how Luthor is more than just an ''evil villain'' but rather believes he is truly doing the right thing by helping the world be rid of Superman and aliens like him. Just as the Joker is the opposite side of Batman, Luthor is the polar opposite of Superman (Sorry Bizarro) then you have General Zod, Metallo, Brainiac, Darkseid. I mean besides Batman, Spider-Man and Flash, No other hero has such an interesting group of rogues. -Him having bad stories Red Son, All Star, Birthright, The entire New Krypton Arc, Death of Superman, Up, up and Away, Secret Origins, For the man who has Everything, Whatever Happened to the Man Of Tomorrow say otherwise. Superman to me is the single greatest and most influential character to ever burst from a comic book and has done more for superheroes than any other character I can think of. You can make fun of him, his morals, what he stands for, but at the end of the day, he is the greatest superhero to ever ''live'' and in my opinion does more than just fight crime, he inspires us (both the reader, and the fictional characters he interacts with) to be better, to strive for a better tomorrow, and I for one will always be a Super fan.

    THANK YOU!!

    I agree with you 100%. People who hate superman have never read the character and base opinions solely on word of mouth or from the internet. I love the character and have been made fun of a lot by people, especially by non comic readers for liking Superman "You're Stupid, Why can't you like the good characters." If you read Superman and end up not liking him, fine, but read the character before making a decision. all of these problems mentioned in the article stem from refusing to give the character a fair chance.

    Avatar image for sethysquare
    sethysquare

    3965

    Forum Posts

    150

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 1

    #80  Edited By sethysquare

    @XImpossibruX said:

    Superman is not an interesting character. He literally is a mary sue character that always fights boring villains saves the day and flys into out space......

    And even when they made this OP character have a end-all weakness, somehow he manages to beat the person who has his weakness! WTF how is he beating people who have kyptonite? its ridiculous.

    So the OP character not being beaten by his weakness.....

    1 word

    Lame.

    Btw this it the most ignorant post I have ever seen.

    So just because some one has Kryptonite, Superman can't defeat him. He is a Superhero for a reason.

    Also, lets see, Superman has way more iconic villains and villains that almost everyone knows. Tell me, which of Ironman's villains are actually iconic or popular.

    I can name at least 20 Superman villains that have been translated numerous times on different media. Can you do that for Ironman?

    Avatar image for danhimself
    danhimself

    21433

    Forum Posts

    36958

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 3

    #81  Edited By danhimself

    you say this:

    @mcaraballo said:

    I wish i was involved in comics im not a writer but i Got some Cool ideas how to make superman cool, without changing his character.

    but then you say all of this:

    @mcaraballo said:

    Superman needs new challenges, new supporting characters and epic Adventure/Battles. I loved super man growing up but outside of his death and return Got me super excited but then when he returned all went back to normal and it got ... boring.. they are epic stories but then inbetween it getes boring who wants to pick up an issue every month? im glad they changed the costume. I think that superman needs to go the tony stark way. everyone should know clark is superman or there should be no more clark kent. or have a holographic device where he looks diffrent, the goofy clumsy and glasses doesnt work anymore. or he is someone else now a new other person. I agree that superman needs a life change new women in his life maybe being a father? or adopting a super and looking out for him her perhaps? A cool story like maybe (its been used already) but what if something happends to superman that he just turns evil and takes over metropolis and starts to spread to the world and all the heroes have to take him down. have this span for a summer or season, than afterwards some lose trust in him because of the lives he took and he has to rebuild himself to be trusted again. even heroes need forgiveness and cant be perfect. Wish i was in comics i have so many ideas. What do you guys think what story would you want to see? rather than saying what sucks what can make superman better? what would make you run and get your red towel and put it around your neck and hum the theme song like i did as a kid?

    I'm confused

    Avatar image for bigsoto74
    bigsoto74

    332

    Forum Posts

    7

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #82  Edited By bigsoto74

    The reason I have a hard time reading Superman is that he is to Powerful. He needs to have more weaknesses so the readers don't know how the end of the books turn out. What's the point of reading a comic that you already know the ending. Now he is so powerful that regular villains are so beneath him that they have to try to create new one and they fail. I think they took his weakness to magic away sometime back and now his only weakness is Kryptonite and his morality. Seriously? I want so see him struggle and fail, then get back up and try again. Then readers can relate to a character that is trying to better themselves and never gives up.

    Avatar image for manwhohaseverything
    Manwhohaseverything

    3818

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 2

    User Lists: 0

    @The Stegman: Folks are so contradictory also. I've seen the term "super-dicekery" thrown around by some of his detractors. After all, he didn't worry about stopping Doomsday until he reached Metropolis!" (The bastard!) Then, 2 minutes later another detractor will come by and say "His moral values are too high, he's too perfect." Which is it?  "He's too powerful!" they cry. Then these same folks will get on a battle form and INSIST that he could be beaten by Hulk and/or Thor. Which is it? (I've even, on rare occasion have heard folks say he'd be beat by Wolverine...granted, that's just stupid.) Still, as you've stated where are the "Thor is too powerful" complaints? Where are the "Captain America" is too good complaints? In the pre 52, I'd even argue Wonder Woman was more of a goody-goody than Superman, that's why DC had her kill Maxwell instead of Clark , having her do it was even more shocking, and more out-of-character. (My take on it at least.)
    Avatar image for derfelmacklin
    DerfelMacklin

    33

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #84  Edited By DerfelMacklin

    @jointron33 said:

    Anyone who hates Superman but loves the Frank Miller-esque depiction of "Bat-God" can go live under a rock.....wait....they already are

    This times a trillion. Batman, a street level vigilante with several billion dollars to his name and a personal tragedy that most people will never experience being more relatable and able to beat anyone in comics so long as he has an hour to prepare is the biggest example of being "willfully delusional" that I have seen.

    Liking a character and finding him inspiring/awesome/cool is not the same thing as that character being relatable. Yet, the Batman is us argument pops up all the time.

    Avatar image for sethysquare
    sethysquare

    3965

    Forum Posts

    150

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 1

    #85  Edited By sethysquare

    @Manwhohaseverything said:

    What I've always found, is Superman's "Elseworlds" andMini/Maxi Series (Red Son, Birthright, The Nail, All-Star, etc, etc....) is what they tend to save all their "good ideas" for. The next time someone has a good idea for a Superman mini/maxi series. DC should say "Wait, can we use this as an arc for his regular series?"

    You can say this for tons of characters actually. Plenty of Batman's elseworld/mini/maxi, year one, dark knight returns, dark knight strikes again, all star batman and robin are the ones that probably sells the most. Green Arrow - Longbow Hunter, Year One.

    Not to mention JUSTICE, New Frontier, Kingdom Come and etc DC does have a habit of saving their talents for all these elseworld/mini/maxi series that would do great on trades. Even until now, you can still find all of these trades.

    Avatar image for mettlekm
    mettlekm

    435

    Forum Posts

    16

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #86  Edited By mettlekm

    It's probably a compliment; Superman has been imitated many times. From irredeemable to Mega Mind. Many other twists on Superman have been done. Like what happens when he turns heel with Irredeemable or in the case of Hyperion what happens if he's kind of an a'hole & everyone is scared of him or in case of Sentry, what happens if he's schizo.

    DC has an iconic character, and, i would imagine are fearful of hurting their brand. (how long will it still be their character? anyone know what's latest on copyright stuff?) So they haven't done some of those really good, but potentially character damaging stories which other outfits have been able to do.

    Plus it doesn't help to have so many superman like characters in the DCU. Supergirl, Powergirl, Superboy. yes all have their own special qualities or lack of qualities, but it takes away from the big guy.

    They should make him have an affair with Wonder Woman or something. Humanize him. Even boyscouts have a bad day. Always felt like he was settling for Lois. I know i know, she's a real take charge go getter... but that's Wonder Woman! Poor guy has to be careful of his super strength & probably can't feel anything. Gotta make being intimate difficult... Gotta be lonely!

    Avatar image for sethysquare
    sethysquare

    3965

    Forum Posts

    150

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 1

    #87  Edited By sethysquare

    @bigsoto74 said:

    The reason I have a hard time reading Superman is that he is to Powerful. He needs to have more weaknesses so the readers don't know how the end of the books turn out. What's the point of reading a comic that you already know the ending. Now he is so powerful that regular villains are so beneath him that they have to try to create new one and they fail. I think they took his weakness to magic away sometime back and now his only weakness is Kryptonite and his morality. Seriously? I want so see him struggle and fail, then get back up and try again. Then readers can relate to a character that is trying to better themselves and never gives up.

    they already depowered him by like 2x

    Avatar image for jointron33
    jointron33

    2107

    Forum Posts

    69

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 3

    User Lists: 12

    #88  Edited By jointron33

    Him have an affair? Please tell me you're drunk.........and high..........

    Avatar image for bigsoto74
    bigsoto74

    332

    Forum Posts

    7

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #89  Edited By bigsoto74

    @sethysquare said:

    @bigsoto74 said:

    The reason I have a hard time reading Superman is that he is to Powerful. He needs to have more weaknesses so the readers don't know how the end of the books turn out. What's the point of reading a comic that you already know the ending. Now he is so powerful that regular villains are so beneath him that they have to try to create new one and they fail. I think they took his weakness to magic away sometime back and now his only weakness is Kryptonite and his morality. Seriously? I want so see him struggle and fail, then get back up and try again. Then readers can relate to a character that is trying to better themselves and never gives up.

    they already depowered him by like 2x

    And he is still that powerful? Wow...

    Avatar image for gravitypress
    gravitypress

    2102

    Forum Posts

    6

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    #90  Edited By gravitypress

    Lois needs to die because of something Superman did. That would give him the right amount of tragedy.

    Avatar image for mattwing87
    mattwing87

    441

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #91  Edited By mattwing87

    Also Superman has no personality. He rarely cracks jokes or taunts his enemies. He doesn't try to pick up chicks. He isn't clumsy or makes mistakes. He's very stoic for the most part.

    Avatar image for sethysquare
    sethysquare

    3965

    Forum Posts

    150

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 1

    #92  Edited By sethysquare

    @bigsoto74 said:

    @sethysquare said:

    @bigsoto74 said:

    The reason I have a hard time reading Superman is that he is to Powerful. He needs to have more weaknesses so the readers don't know how the end of the books turn out. What's the point of reading a comic that you already know the ending. Now he is so powerful that regular villains are so beneath him that they have to try to create new one and they fail. I think they took his weakness to magic away sometime back and now his only weakness is Kryptonite and his morality. Seriously? I want so see him struggle and fail, then get back up and try again. Then readers can relate to a character that is trying to better themselves and never gives up.

    they already depowered him by like 2x

    And he is still that powerful? Wow...

    in the new 52? he really isn't that powerful in the new 52.

    Avatar image for sethysquare
    sethysquare

    3965

    Forum Posts

    150

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 1

    #93  Edited By sethysquare

    @mattwing87 said:

    Also Superman has no personality. He rarely cracks jokes or taunts his enemies. He doesn't try to pick up chicks. He isn't clumsy or makes mistakes. He's very stoic for the most part.

    He isn't deadpool or ironman or wolverine. Also, Thor, Captain America, Flash (Barry Allen) don't crack jokes, taunt their enemies, pick up chicks or is clumsy. But yes they make mistakes, so does Superman.

    Are you saying all of them have no personality?

    Avatar image for legionlover
    Legionlover

    2

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #94  Edited By Legionlover

    I love Superman. I love Clark. And for me the one weakness that no writer ever exploits (and it's a good one) is that Superman always always sees the good in everyone. Even Lex. Even when he's presented with evidence to the contrary. Superman always believes (because of how he was raised by the Kents) that there is hope for everyone. And if these assumptions that were put into his head by the Kents were challenged, then Clark might have some interesting internal struggles (see, for instance, where Morrison seemed to be going with his early Action run by having Superman track down a corporate criminal and threaten him.) Some of the more interesting "Superman" stories have centered around the "what if" question of "what if Superman was not raised by the Kents" (Red Son, Irredeemable, etc.) which points to a big answer to the question of "Who is Superman?" He's the ultimate nature vs. nurture example. So the problem is not so much Superman than it is with Jonathan and Martha Kent. I know adults who absolutely, without question, deify their parents, even when secrets are revealed that show that their parents were just as human as the rest of us. The true "gods" of the Superman mythos aren't Jor-El and Lara, they're Jonathan and Martha.

    Avatar image for gravitypress
    gravitypress

    2102

    Forum Posts

    6

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    #95  Edited By gravitypress

    Well when compared to Thor's comics Superman doesnt fight as many people near or over his powerlevel. I guarantee Thor has been beaten WAY more than Superman. I will give you Hulk though marvel treats him in many of the same ways as DC does Supes.

    Avatar image for the_stegman
    the_stegman

    41911

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    #96  Edited By the_stegman  Moderator
    @Manwhohaseverything: Yes, there are a lot of double standards about Superman that don't seem to fall on other heroes, for instance, Barry Allen and Captain America have nearly identical viewpoints as Superman about morality, justice etc, yet no one calls them "goody goody'' There are MANY characters more powerful than Superman or at least equal to him like I mentioned Thor, WW, Sentry, Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Hulk who apparently has "no upper strength limits, somehow survives in space, punches gods, and cracks planets in half by walking, yet no one calls them overpowered, heck, give Batman, Reed Richards or Dr. Doom some prep and people are ready to call them unstoppable, yet they never get the too powerful claim (ok, maybe Batman does sometimes) It's quite annoying how people can have a blind eye to some characters yet instantly criticize Superman.
    Avatar image for manwhohaseverything
    Manwhohaseverything

    3818

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 2

    User Lists: 0

    @mattwing87 said:

    Also Superman has no personality. He rarely cracks jokes or taunts his enemies. He doesn't try to pick up chicks. He isn't clumsy or makes mistakes. He's very stoic for the most part.

    Being stoic IS a personality trait. Everything you said about Superman here could be said of Batman, Thor, Captain America, and a host of other heroes.
    Avatar image for raider17
    raider17

    16

    Forum Posts

    3

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #98  Edited By raider17

    Superman shouldn't be the strongest there is, he should be perceived that way because of his will and determination so that when he triumphs over an enemy its an actual accomplishment.

    my opinion de power him but give him an image to maintain in the publics eyes that drives him forward as a hero.

    Avatar image for bushidoblack
    BushidoBlack

    117

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #99  Edited By BushidoBlack

    There is nothing wrong with being a boy scout. Captain America is a boy scout and we see how that doesn't effect his popularity outside of comics. I think it's just a combination of what many folks in here have already said.

    Avatar image for fodigg
    fodigg

    6244

    Forum Posts

    2603

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 7

    #100  Edited By fodigg
    1. Too good: This is not a problem if they just embrace it and challenge it. Captain America is, in many ways, "too good", but that didn't stop Brubaker of making him badass.
    2. Too powerful: Definitely granted. They need to depower him a bit and give him some more common weaknesses other than "rocks" and "magic". We need to see him struggle to land that crashing plane. But even with him really powerful, it can be done right. It just needs the right threat to bring him down and make him struggle.
    3. Sucky villains: He's got some good villains, but where the hell have they been during this relaunch? The difference between new-52 Superman and new-52 Aquaman is that they put the best of Aquaman's villains--the ones that had a personal connection to him--right up front. Meanwhile Superman has been fighting random aliens. They need to pull out the big guns and make it personal, not throw random monsters at the wall.

    The blueprint for superman should be All Star Superman. It gets everything right without even depowering him. In fact, it powers him up.

    This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

    Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

    Comment and Save

    Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.