In debates, people always point out that Superman is slow and bad at fighting hand to hand. If he is fast, can you post some scans? I'm talking about New 52 Superman, SA Superman and PC Superman.

Another question, is Superman Prime One Million really as powerful as it says in the DC Wiki? How did they get that info?

whoever told u Superman's combat speed is slow was plain out lying..he has one of the fastest combat speeds

i havn't read the Dc wiki but ya he was pretty powerful, although didn't have a lot of feats he was supposedly second only to God

@cloudzackvincent: Thanks for the scans. People usually say this in debates(a certain debate which is not allowed in this site, I'm sure you would know what that debate is now.). I just didn't have the proof that he is fast. Where do you find these?

@st0nnec0ld said:

@cloudzackvincent: Thanks for the scans. People usually say this in debates(a certain debate which is not allowed in this site, I'm sure you would know what that debate is now.). I just didn't have the proof that he is fast. Where do you find these?

i would say depending who he fights they may dumb his fighting speed and skills down just to make it interesting because come on with his speed and strength pretty much nobody really stands against him.

I would also say he tries to hold back since he never wants to kill anyone.

in reality he pretty much can rip anyone's limbs off in a sec

@st0nnec0ld said:

@cloudzackvincent: Thanks for the scans. People usually say this in debates(a certain debate which is not allowed in this site, I'm sure you would know what that debate is now.). I just didn't have the proof that he is fast. Where do you find these?

i posted these scans earlier in another post.... there are some more scans which i didn't post here since u asked for combat speed specifically... here is the link if u want to check out the other scans

http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/majestic99/what-are-supermans-speed-feats/87-81160/

Supes is slow!!??? what?!! who sad so? Maybe Flash?:))

supes is fast but he fights fast depending on his foe its not like he has to fight super fast everytime he fights.

Generally speaking, yes.

That's the way they've always written him.

With his combination of strength, durability, reflexes, stamina and speed, Superman should be absolutely unstoppable!

And that's why they write him slow. If he actually used all his powers to their potential, in unison, he could barely be challenged.

It's that potential lack of challenge that prevents the editors from allowing it to happen.

He's hard to write already. If they let him use all his powers properly, he'd be damn near impossible to write.

those scans should answer to both questions:

Gallery

What is his combat speed in terms of speed of light ? That is the main question

Superman is the fastest guy in combat after Flash family.Pre-Flashpoint Superman can perceive and act between nano even picoseconds.He's faster than Surfer,Gladiator etc.

@akiratoriyama: wut???

Get out.

You mean the guy that throws objects to other solar system in a second?

You think he's slow? Hah.

He's never even run to the point of Speed of Light, he couldn't even catch up with Barry in a race. His combat speed is much faster than Speed of Sound though. Several, probably 20-30. But that's New 52 Superman,

@alphaaboveall: Please support your answer with any evidence. Where in the comics is it stated. And if people believe that he has combat speed just below flash then, how much below flash. Post an image or a link that gives idea of his combat speed.

Goddangit, CURSE YOU, REALITY WARPER!

Seen here, New 52, Clark was left behind like a speck of dust. Barry states it was for charity, so he slows down to make the fans wonder who's faster and put their bets in. The speed of sound is 770 miles, and its stated spede of light is 900 000 times faster. Superman has only able to go Mach 9000 something, meaning 9000 times faster than the Speed of Sound. He's nowhere close to Flash.

EDIT- Better meaning. Flash states that Superman is moving at over 2000 miles/sec, which is also over 120,000 miles/minute, and also 7,200,000 mph. That's Mach 9350.

There are others like Flash who are speedsters and surpass Supes with ease, but there never stated due to popularity. But in terms of the Justice League, Clark is under as the second fastest combat fighter. Proof. Of course Wally wasn't paying that much attention and just acted like he was the best, so he underestimated the big guy. But Superman is always in the favor of coming right below Flash. Pre 52 though, he has maintained the reputation of travelling at the speed of light.

Gallery

Superman deflecting radiation, which are light speed, and Supes throwing a ball to another solar system, the closest of which is more than 4 light years.

There, Massively Faster Than Light speed feats.

@jogga said:

@akiratoriyama said:

@alphaaboveall: Please support your answer with any evidence. Where in the comics is it stated. And if people believe that he has combat speed just below flash then, how much below flash. Post an image or a link that gives idea of his combat speed.

Gallery

Superman deflecting radiation, which are light speed, and Supes throwing a ball to another solar system, the closest of which is more than 4 light years.

There, Massively Faster Than Light speed feats.

When you say throw, it's the strength Clark has given it. he doesn't have any movement that is speed related to the ball. The ball is moving at light speeds but is Clark also? No he just threw it which effort that causes the ball to go in extreme conditions. Other than that to the radiation, when it is interacted with light, the speed of light decreases it's momentum. And that type of radiation isn't the one that is related to theCherenkov radiation, which is the closest to the light of speed it can get. Only thing. And what you are showing are only reflexes/reactions. You haven't shown Superman physically flying or running at lightspeeds. Instead you have shown his reaction to the radiation deflected, which he can think at nanoseconds and mentally it is faster than the speed of light. It is true radiation travels at the speed of light, but that's because when interacted the light speed starts to slow down due to the opposition of protons and neutrons combination. But Superman has never shown to travel at lightspeeds.

@alphaaboveall: I have no Idea what you are going on about.

You do realise that, to throw something at certain speed you need to move at that certain speed.

Also, electromagnetic radiation casually propagates at the speed of light.

Also, Superman has flown to other Solar Systems and Galaxies before, so he has traveled FTL countless times.

Yep sadly, his enemies whom he seems faster than are literally standing there literally made to tank his blows because they aren't matching him in the same manner. Goku fans have this over Superman fans in this respect, he fights opponents who fight faster than human perception and match him in super human skills in a fight, Supes and his hight tier villians are just brawling idiots with super powers than barely show case thier capacity to speed blitz him and he alone to match that with his own speed.

Those times he traveled were Pre 52, not New 52*. Also, to throw something at a certain speed, you need to move it? What? So when you move the ball moves, but no strength is required. That's what you are saying. And that ball you said it moved light years, were does it say so? The scan you just showed me says nothing whatsoever. Your just putting in words. And the reason why the ball when at speeds no regular hero can reach to? Because in terms of strength, the ball had enough density that can be related to a shotput ball, but for Clark, it feels so light, it might as well feel like a balloon with a substance. And the other scan? He used a mirror to reflect radiation, he wasn't moving along it or anyway around. He could have just stood there while radiation kept reflecting in straight lines as long the mirror is put in a 180 degree angle. But all it shows it Clark moving at speeds to use the attack in various of spots on the opponent. He hasn't whatsoever shown to compete the radiation speed nor traveled at it. What you just shown me? The opponent's was using Radiation lasers, not superman flying. When his lasers hit the mirror, it just reflected back at him, and that main point was the opponent was trying to hit Clark, he wasn't aiming it anywhere else and Clark flying there. And the radiation doesn't move, it's the person's head movement that controls where the radiation is put. So that point you haven't looked in clearly. And the more I looked into the second scan, it wasn't a punch or a throw. It was a push*. If he wanted to throw it, he could have done so in Earth, but looking at how his hand was placed, it looks more of a pushed action that a held back thrown action. But if Clark was to "throw" it, it doesn't show his hands moving at FTL. He muscles gave him an upper boost to throw the ball easily. It doesn't matter if you throw it at a certain speed, the ball doesn't has the FORCE to make it travel. Without force, you can't throw. It's like your saying, Flash throws a ball at light speed and it will go across the galaxy. No. He doesn't have the required muscles to achieve that distance or speed. It depends on the weight of the ball or the person throwing it.

i never get these arguments. it's established that superman can move faster than light, but people still seem to have the need to debate this. it has been said over and over that superman holds himself back in an atmosphere to prevent damage to the environment. superman suffers from the same thing the flash does. the flash gets tagged by deathstroke and his own weak rogue gallery constantly. captain cold should not be a threat to barry. if clark went all out, he could just blitz his foes before they can react. he is usually stronger than all his foes to begin with. he has these super senses which he never uses in a fight. he should never get surprised by kryptonite sense he can see it from thousands of miles away. people shouldn't be able to hide from him or sneak up on him sense he can sense them from thousands of miles away. he is faster and stronger than most of his enemies. the few enemies he isn't stronger than, he still has some advantages over them with his other powers and senses. in order for his fights to last more than 2 panels the writers have to put in massive cis and pis. he could just swoop in and beat his opponents in a millionth of a second. however, that will be dumb.

Superman blitzing a ship travelling at extra saturated lightspeed in JLA #63.

Gallery

Hopefully that shows why Superman can blitz at at least lightspeed if he wishes to.

Not even sure what half of this stuff is. It's a real pain to read through, since everything is just so crunched together.

I'm just going to repeat what was seen in the scans.

Superman deflecting Kryptonite radiation seeping out of Kryptonite Man. The Radiation is shot once through K-Man's eyes, and three times simultaneously by his arm. Superman uses lead-lined glass to deflect the radiation at Super-Speed. Anybody with half a brain knows that electromagnetic radiation is light speed. Thus, this is an FTL feat

Superman throws a ball to another solar system. This is just easy to see as FTL considering the closest solar system is 4.246 light years away, and this just happened in two panels. Theory of relativity and momentum and kinetic energy and all of that jazz explain that his arm had to be moving at the same speed.

He's reacted to another Superman's lightspeed heat vision, definitely FTL in combat speed.

Clear points:

1. Kyptonite Man was aiming his lasers at Superman, where all Superman had to do was fly at a certain speed, not nearly fast, and aim it at his shoulder. Clark didn't have to move at the radiations speed, since it was being aimed at him.

2. The text has never said it has traveled into another solar system. For all we know, it could have crashed into another planet or meteorites. And the text hasn't stated either the speed on which the ball was travelling. You didn't understand properly, whatever object or thing is light years away and something is thrown at it, doesn't mean the thrown object will be travelling at light years. You are making assumptions where there isn't proof of what the writer has said. You are just putting in words from what the picture is showing.

3. But other people believe he has traveled lightspeeds. He has in Pre 52 as I stated. New 52, I need a little more convincing. Anyways. this is going off topic since this has nothing to do with combat speed. We aren't discussing combat but other feats to show lightspeed. So I will need proof/feats where he has fought in lightspeeds, not travel.

@lvenger said:

Superman blitzing a ship travelling at extra saturated lightspeed in JLA #63.

Gallery

Hopefully that shows why Superman can blitz at at least lightspeed if he wishes to.

That is travelling, not combat. I need to see pics where he is fighting at lightspeeds.

1. Wrong. You can clearly see in the third picture green radiation was coming right out of his head. More likely from his eyes. If "K-Man" was breaking down, he wouldn't continue on taking down Clark and tried to save himself somehow, or control his power from within. You haven't seen that scan clearly. And the picture after that, he was aiming his head slightly as Clark kept flying side to side. You can see the mirage where Clark stood his last area in the panel, and K-Man head was facing that direction. It's called forward movement. And by "K-Man's" expression in that panel, he was clearly angry and shown no consent of him going to "break-down" in any possible way,

2. You stated it has went into "ANOTHER" solar system in your previous post. Now you state it has moved across the solar system, CURRENTLY. The Milky Wave, not anything else. And it's common sense not to make assumptions on pictures that no one has ever stated. It's common sense that when your state something that hasn't been stated, you aren't 100% sure on what the writer has written in his P.O.V. Just because he threw a "weak mass" ball, doesn't mean he is able to fight at lightspeeds in combat. Those scans you shown just proved nothing to what the title of the OP has written. And again, people mistaken common sense in their wrong doings or nature. They believe something is right and they start to prove people wrong. Then they say "it's common sense" and your answer is "right", in actuality it's wrong. Don't put words that doesn't shown what they actually meant to mean. Just because pictures shown what is happening, doesn't make you 100% right on your GUESSES. A picture can mean a lot of things. A quote said by many. For all we know, that ball could have traveled at the speed of a Space Shuttle in Earth's atmosphere. Don't be fooled by fire.

3. And partly (after researching) your right that when an object is thrown at a certain speed, the arm must be the same or nearly close by. But, it also involves the strength, the push factor on how much force is put into. To Clark, that ball must have felt like a tennis ball, in human P.O.V, possibly a feather. Clark strength varied a lot into that push. His force led the ball exceed it's distance and able to be thrown must faster than it's original push factor. If Clark didn't use any force to throw it, the globe would simply for out if his grasp, since their isn't any capable force to lift the object. Speed plays a part, but strength as well.

4. Your scans proved nothing about combat speed. It wasn't me but you brought it up.The first scan you just showed Clark's movement, in other ways, know relatively has traveling, just in a closed distance. Secondly didn't show any traveling speed except a ball, which doesn't mean anything in combat. Especially throwing things won't do anything at his opponents, which they acquire super natural powers. Sorry for the big text. :)

Reaction has nothing to do with combat. Reaction is mentally while combat is physically. And reactions aren't measured in lightspeeds, but in nanoseconds, plyseconds, attoseonds, etc. Clark's reaction has reached plyseconds, but it is rarely shown, inconsistent. Normally would be nanoseconds.

@alphaaboveall: Combat Speed=Movement Speed+Reaction Speed+Perception Speed, he has all three so that's combat speed.

Reaction doesn't determine whether he is going to move fast or slow. There are other characters that are able to detect what is incoming, for example Batman who at times as thought in nanoseconds. Rarely I noted. But he moves slow as an ant and Clark is easily able to tag him in the comics BvS.

@alphaaboveall: Bruh,did you just say Batman has nanosecond processing speed?

Is he slow in combat, heck no, is his combat speed > his traverse speed. I would say no.

I read it off somewhere in the comics. The more I think about it, I think I realize it was part of an illusion to think Batman was greater than what he is. In an alternate universe, overdosed and dreaming obviously, he has the powers considerably close to Clark's in strength and mentally. I think the nanoseconds was a little bit of a stretch, but my point still stands firm. There are other characters that have incredibly fast reactions, but don't have the speed to comprehend it. Dodge, Block, Cover, Fight, etc. I think Spidey would be great here. His Spidey sense has always helped him think fast in scenarios that are going in speeds that human can't capture everything clearly. But if he were to go against the Flash, his mind would tell him where he is coming, but he would be increasingly slow since Flash would be punching Pete in an attoseond blur. No matter how fast your reactions are, physically wise you won't move as fast. Example could be in a boxing arena. You can tell what attacks your opponent is about to do, predicting the moves or seeing it oncoming, but you possibly won't be able to move as quick as the mind. The mind is mentally faster than physical movements in any way.

@alphaaboveall: Of course Superman's mental processing speed is CONSIDERABLY faster than his combat speed, but he I FTL in combat nonetheless.

You got any feats though to back it up?

@alphaaboveall: Are you on Google+ by any chance?, I won't be able to show you anything on Comicvine.

Why not? I'm not on it atm, but I able to go on now.

@alphaaboveall: So Yes, No, Maybe?

combat speed is an invention of the battle forums. superman's combat speed is at least as good as his travel speed. most people can react to things that move faster than them. superman is moving and reacting to the things around him using his own body. he isn't using a hammer to travel like thor or a suit like ironman. combat speed is the dumbest argument on comic vine. the second is lifting strength vs. striking strength.

@alphaaboveall: He's also outraced phasers and literal light beams before they reached their target, blitzed Wonder Woman several times in their battles under mind control as well as reacted to Flash level beings before. Is that not enough lightspeed for you?

AMEN

Combat speed is not an invention, flying speed has nothing to do with how fast your fist moves, and any speed that can only be reached after moving for a long distance is almost useless in a fight, so if Superman needs to move for 1 Km to reach light speed, then he isn't going to be fighting at light speed

You already know the answer lol.

@st0nnec0ld

Those 1st, 2nd, 4th scans are from the same artist and writer that had Red Hulk jump to the moon, and effortlessly KO The Watcher and decapitate Terrax.

Some writers and artists do stuff out of character because it's fun, it's always been that way.

The surprise on The Flash's face sums this question up, it's happened but it's weird and rare.

Superman is incredibly powerful with or without that kind of speed, it's not needed for that mold of character.

As above. Only on special occasions by certain writers.

Most writers have him eat continuous punchers from human speed characters. Punches he see's coming.

It's cooler seeing Supes throw huge hay makers, get wallloped and keep on coming back, it's in his character, that's how he is almost always written regardless of the speed of who is facing.

We know that superman's combat speed is pretty darn fast. He can react to the Flash. However, if he used his speed every time there will be no story. It will be pretty boring for Clark to just zoom in and wreck everyone before they can process a thought. Even opponents like doomsday should not be a challenge. He is too fast for them.

Superman needs a fresh new thread of his combat speed feats i guess.

First of all Supermans combat speed is not slow not slow at all infact its very fast and although even if its not mentioned explicitly that he is fighting at lightspeed with nanoseconds of reactions it is very clearly implied as :

1) Superman has nanosecond reaction time its been mentioned at more than one occasion. Superman can also travel at ftl speeds .

2) He can also use infinite mass punch in order to do that he must vibrate his fists at near lightspeeds.

3) Superman has dodged doomsdays attacks before at so fast it appeared as if he was intangible.

4) Supergirl learnt how to be intangible from flash and then she was actually able to be intangible so it is implied that superman can use this too.