Sent to Earth as an infant from the dying planet Krypton, Kal-El was adopted by the loving Kent family and raised in America's heartland as Clark Kent. Using his immense solar-fueled powers, he became Superman to defend mankind against all manner of threats while championing truth, justice, and the American way!
I know Maxima is...obsessed with him, but most of the info I have on her are from the animated cartoon and smallville. Could you give me a list or issues of the comics were she's constantly trying to get with Supes. Thank you!
To my knowledge the only time she actually 'got' with Blue was an annual during the 90's. It was an elseworlds during the (lackluster) 'Armageddon 2001' storyline. Here's the cover:
It's worth reading alone to see Superman rock a steep blue V-Neck and purple pants for about half the comic.
To my knowledge the only time she actually 'got' with Blue was an annual during the 90's. It was an elseworlds during the (lackluster) 'Armageddon 2001' storyline. Here's the cover:
It's worth reading alone to see Superman rock a steep blue V-Neck and purple pants for about half the comic.
This is an incredibly underrated story from Louise Simonson. And it's not an Elseworlds story. It's more like a future that happened, but changed because Superman had a weird recall ability during The Armageddon 2001 event. That's why Waverider was nervous and thought that Superman was actually Monarch. It's a long story.
To my knowledge the only time she actually 'got' with Blue was an annual during the 90's. It was an elseworlds during the (lackluster) 'Armageddon 2001' storyline. Here's the cover:
It's worth reading alone to see Superman rock a steep blue V-Neck and purple pants for about half the comic.
This is an incredibly underrated story from Louise Simonson. And it's not an Elseworlds story. It's more like a future that happened, but changed because Superman had a weird recall ability during The Armageddon 2001 event. That's why Waverider was nervous and thought that Superman was actually Monarch. It's a long story.
Actually, it was an alternate history where Superman marries Maxima after Lois dies, presented as an Elseworld's story in Adventures of Superman Annual #3, part of the Armageddon 2001 in which Waverider looked at possible futures of DC characters.
No, it's not an Elseworlds story. It wasn't released under the Elseworlds imprint for starters.
The reason why Lois Lane's death during childbirth, and Superman hooking up with Maxima was reversed was because unlike everyone else's future that Waverider looked into, Superman had an unexplained ability to recall the vision of the future as it was unveiled. If that's an Elseworlds story, then Marty McFly Jr. going to prison in 2015 for robbing the Hill Valley Payroll Substation is also and Elseworlds story.
"Doesn't even bothers to check the facts. Same o, same o..."
Here, do some research for a change: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxima_(comics)
Go to the "Other Versions" section.
Also research this: http://www.supermansupersite.com/maxima.html
Read specifically the last lines.
And has a personal note... Sometimes reading information from just one site like the Vine, doesn't give us all facts. It's always good to compare notes from other sites. I gave you two sites, but there are others saying exactly the same.
So unless you know more than everybody else. Have the humility to admit when you're partially wrong.
Ironically, Maxima's a lesbian now and is, supposedly, infatuated with Supergirl.
Maxima was changed into a lesbian teen because aparently we Superman fans had to learn the lesson that a fictional villain/anti-heroine space princess wanting the **ck of a hero is a sexist trope. I wonder if we'll also get stories where Talia, Cheshire and Shado are also turned into lesbians. Detail: in those cases the anti-heroines actually got the **cks and the children of the heroes. This is the oldest trope ever. Marvel also has examples of this, like Cap. America and Diamondback, or Hulk and Caiera.
The details, versions and discussion of whether or not Shado 'dominated' Oliver are fascinating. Same as with Talia and Bruce. I gotta love opening the pages of a comic book and discovering that Supes has been singled out for the theater of BS one more time.
"Doesn't even bothers to check the facts. Same o, same o..."
Here, do some research for a change: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxima_(comics)
Go to the "Other Versions" section.
Also research this: http://www.supermansupersite.com/maxima.html
Read specifically the last lines.
And has a personal note... Sometimes reading information from just one site like the Vine, doesn't give us all facts. It's always good to compare notes from other sites. I gave you two sites, but there are others saying exactly the same.
So unless you know more than everybody else. Have the humility to admit when you're partially wrong.
I gave you TWO reasons why it's not an Elseworlds story. The first is self evident, the Elseworlds imprint isn't on the cover. All you did was quote wikipedia, and another site that just copies wikipedia word for word. This is a case where the Vine is right.
Ironically, Maxima's a lesbian now and is, supposedly, infatuated with Supergirl.
Maxima was changed into a lesbian teen because aparently we Superman fans had to learn the lesson that a fictional villain/anti-heroine space princess wanting the **ck of a hero is a sexist trope. I wonder if we'll also get stories where Talia, Cheshire and Shado are also turned into lesbians. Detail: in those cases the anti-heroines actually got the **cks and the children of the heroes. This is the oldest trope ever. Marvel also has examples of this, like Cap. America and Diamondback, or Hulk and Caiera.
The details, versions and discussion of whether or not Shado 'dominated' Oliver are fascinating. Same as with Talia and Bruce. I gotta love opening the pages of a comic book and discovering that Supes has been singled out for the theater of BS one more time.
*facedesk* Oh, for f**k's sake...
Catwoman, Maxima, not to mention all the crap going on in Marvel...
The Big Two desperately need to clean house and get rid of all the Tumblr-circle-jerk fanfiction writers.
Ironically, Maxima's a lesbian now and is, supposedly, infatuated with Supergirl.
Maxima was changed into a lesbian teen because aparently we Superman fans had to learn the lesson that a fictional villain/anti-heroine space princess wanting the **ck of a hero is a sexist trope. I wonder if we'll also get stories where Talia, Cheshire and Shado are also turned into lesbians. Detail: in those cases the anti-heroines actually got the **cks and the children of the heroes. This is the oldest trope ever. Marvel also has examples of this, like Cap. America and Diamondback, or Hulk and Caiera.
The details, versions and discussion of whether or not Shado 'dominated' Oliver are fascinating. Same as with Talia and Bruce. I gotta love opening the pages of a comic book and discovering that Supes has been singled out for the theater of BS one more time.
*facedesk* Oh, for f**k's sake...
Catwoman, Maxima, not to mention all the crap going on in Marvel...
The Big Two desperately need to clean house and get rid of all the Tumblr-circle-jerk fanfiction writers.
It's not that Maxima was turned into a lesbian or bisexual. I'd have no problems with that. It's that a whole page was written explaining why the old Maxima was a sexist trope. I doubt they did the same with Selina. And I doubt they'll do the same with any other similar character.
I didn't need that. I didn't deserve that. Superman fans don't deserve to be singled out like that.
Ironically, Maxima's a lesbian now and is, supposedly, infatuated with Supergirl.
Maxima was changed into a lesbian teen because aparently we Superman fans had to learn the lesson that a fictional villain/anti-heroine space princess wanting the **ck of a hero is a sexist trope. I wonder if we'll also get stories where Talia, Cheshire and Shado are also turned into lesbians. Detail: in those cases the anti-heroines actually got the **cks and the children of the heroes. This is the oldest trope ever. Marvel also has examples of this, like Cap. America and Diamondback, or Hulk and Caiera.
The details, versions and discussion of whether or not Shado 'dominated' Oliver are fascinating. Same as with Talia and Bruce. I gotta love opening the pages of a comic book and discovering that Supes has been singled out for the theater of BS one more time.
*facedesk* Oh, for f**k's sake...
Catwoman, Maxima, not to mention all the crap going on in Marvel...
The Big Two desperately need to clean house and get rid of all the Tumblr-circle-jerk fanfiction writers.
It's not that Maxima was turned into a lesbian or bisexual. I'd have no problems with that. It's that a whole page was written explaining why the old Maxima was a sexist trope. I doubt they did the same with Selina. And I doubt they'll do the same with any other similar character.
I didn't need that. I didn't deserve that. Superman fans don't deserve to be singled out like that.
Who wrote a whole page explaining that the old Maxima was a sexist trope?
@switchdoctor: It's in the Supergirl comics where Maxima comes out. I understand the intent, and the message is valid, but to see Supes singled out again pissed me off.
Ironically, Maxima's a lesbian now and is, supposedly, infatuated with Supergirl.
Maxima was changed into a lesbian teen because aparently we Superman fans had to learn the lesson that a fictional villain/anti-heroine space princess wanting the **ck of a hero is a sexist trope. I wonder if we'll also get stories where Talia, Cheshire and Shado are also turned into lesbians. Detail: in those cases the anti-heroines actually got the **cks and the children of the heroes. This is the oldest trope ever. Marvel also has examples of this, like Cap. America and Diamondback, or Hulk and Caiera.
The details, versions and discussion of whether or not Shado 'dominated' Oliver are fascinating. Same as with Talia and Bruce. I gotta love opening the pages of a comic book and discovering that Supes has been singled out for the theater of BS one more time.
*facedesk* Oh, for f**k's sake...
Catwoman, Maxima, not to mention all the crap going on in Marvel...
The Big Two desperately need to clean house and get rid of all the Tumblr-circle-jerk fanfiction writers.
It's not that Maxima was turned into a lesbian or bisexual. I'd have no problems with that. It's that a whole page was written explaining why the old Maxima was a sexist trope. I doubt they did the same with Selina. And I doubt they'll do the same with any other similar character.
I didn't need that. I didn't deserve that. Superman fans don't deserve to be singled out like that.
She is sexist since her entire function in life was to have Superman's children because she thought they would be perfect--not for love of Superman, but purely for a superficial reason.
Maxima was silver age Lois and Lana mixed into one. However, that being said, she's a comicbook character and comic characters can always be re-written to fit the times. Lois Lane was a sexist charaicature in the silver age, but the PC reboot changed her to a more serious character.
Maxima can easily be written into a better character in the N52. I agree though: Talia "trapping" Batman was sexist, and, I don't know about this "Shoda" character, but if she raped Olly with the intent to impregnate herself its sexist--might even be borderline racist. Selina isn't sexist because she is a woman who wants to take charge of her sexuality since she was a "woman of the night" since her inception.
I don't know why Superman gets higher scrutiny, but I don't like it either.
Ironically, Maxima's a lesbian now and is, supposedly, infatuated with Supergirl.
Maxima was changed into a lesbian teen because aparently we Superman fans had to learn the lesson that a fictional villain/anti-heroine space princess wanting the **ck of a hero is a sexist trope. I wonder if we'll also get stories where Talia, Cheshire and Shado are also turned into lesbians. Detail: in those cases the anti-heroines actually got the **cks and the children of the heroes. This is the oldest trope ever. Marvel also has examples of this, like Cap. America and Diamondback, or Hulk and Caiera.
The details, versions and discussion of whether or not Shado 'dominated' Oliver are fascinating. Same as with Talia and Bruce. I gotta love opening the pages of a comic book and discovering that Supes has been singled out for the theater of BS one more time.
*facedesk* Oh, for f**k's sake...
Catwoman, Maxima, not to mention all the crap going on in Marvel...
The Big Two desperately need to clean house and get rid of all the Tumblr-circle-jerk fanfiction writers.
It's not that Maxima was turned into a lesbian or bisexual. I'd have no problems with that. It's that a whole page was written explaining why the old Maxima was a sexist trope. I doubt they did the same with Selina. And I doubt they'll do the same with any other similar character.
I didn't need that. I didn't deserve that. Superman fans don't deserve to be singled out like that.
She is sexist since her entire function in life was to have Superman's children because she thought they would be perfect--not for love of Superman, but purely for a superficial reason.
Maxima was silver age Lois and Lana mixed into one. However, that being said, she's a comicbook character and comic characters can always be re-written to fit the times. Lois Lane was a sexist charaicature in the silver age, but the PC reboot changed her to a more serious character.
Maxima can easily be written into a better character in the N52. I agree though: Talia "trapping" Batman was sexist, and, I don't know about this "Shoda" character, but if she raped Olly with the intent to impregnate herself its sexist--might even be borderline racist. Selina isn't sexist because she is a woman who wants to take charge of her sexuality since she was a "woman of the night" since her inception.
I don't know why Superman gets higher scrutiny, but I don't like it either.
It's sexist for a woman to want to have an ideal husband and children?
@switchdoctor: No, but when the only ideal she cares about is his looks and power, it's pretty messed up.
Plus, the sexism of Maxima comes from the fact that her only worth to the Superman mythos is to be a vessel for his seed and to make Lois Lane look better by making her look baby crazy.
It's not a valid message, it's idiotic, whiny pandering.
Selina was a perfectly valid character without turning her bisexual for "muh empowerment" reasons. Maxima was a perfectly valid character without turning her into a lesbian for "muh misogyny" and "muh women liking men - SEXIST!" reasons. Talia, Shoda...all perfectly valid characters.
@switchdoctor: No, but when the only ideal she cares about is his looks and power, it's pretty messed up.
Plus, the sexism of Maxima comes from the fact that her only worth to the Superman mythos is to be a vessel for his seed and to make Lois Lane look better by making her look baby crazy.
I could point out where you're wrong in her debut appearance, but let's say for the moment that your premise about Maxima is true, that all she lusts after are his looks and power. Why is that messed up? Would you rather that Maxima, someone who is very powerful and good looking herself have no libido?
Also, wanting to have a baby now is not only sexist but crazy? Why? You don't see anything rational or sane about a woman wanting Superman to be the father of her children?
@switchdoctor: Maxima only saw Clark and fell in love with him because he was hot and powerful. It's one thing to be attracted to him, it's another thing entirely when you want to make a child with someone only because of that. If your only requirement for mother of your child is that she's good looking and strong you're shallow and vapid.
Now, as far as her desire to have a child with Superman: that's all she's ever brought to the myth. All she wants to be is Superman's baby mama, and that's all she's ever wanted. That's very sexist because women are more than just baby factories.
While I love Maxima, and I love her flaws, especially Superman the Animated series's Maxima, she's a bad character. She needs to be better fleshed out and written.
She can keep all her flaws, but we need more than what we were presented.
@switchdoctor: No, but when the only ideal she cares about is his looks and power, it's pretty messed up.
Plus, the sexism of Maxima comes from the fact that her only worth to the Superman mythos is to be a vessel for his seed and to make Lois Lane look better by making her look baby crazy.
She’s attracted to him for his attractiveness and physical awesomeness? Respectfully, that’s almost a pure tautology combined with a completely obvious commendation.
She was looking for someone that would produce the best offspring, good looks and genetically-based AAA super-powers from the most biologically advanced and compatible race in the universe is pretty much A+ on the criteria; and it was in service to her royal duty, which made her an admirable character. Love is the irrational phenomenon, which made it quite endearing for her "Duty First" character.
Being baby-crazy is a point in her favour. One of the sexiest things a woman can say is that they want your babies. It’s basically the indescribably self-evident sum of all things desirable that yo’ woman would unreservedly commit herself 100% to a future with you and want to have your children (plus sex). That’s love, man. Not only are you implicitly a studly stallion of golden rocket-powered awesomesauce, she’s got faith in you, as a man and future father (and even king, in this case).
And Lois was doing the exact same thing in that story. It's how it all kicked off, so to speak.When she randomly got skittish about babies later on in Post-Crisis, I actually lost interest in reading any more issues. She actually killed the momentum of that particular buzz. (And it's a real shame, because DC could have gotten so much mileage, drama and tension out of a 'will-it-kill-her?' pregnancy.)
It’s a trope for a reason. It works.
It makes Superman look awesome by being the most eligible bachelor in the universe (as he should be), and Maxima’s sensuality, personality and vitality make her a highly attractive romantic interest. The fact that she can bear his children is a legitimately powerful seduction. Superman would want a family, would want children, and Maxima’s one of the few beings in the universe that could offer him that. And she’s an evil space queen, which by definition makes her wicked hot.
Heck, the story where Max hooked up with Supes was even written by a woman - Louise Simonson. So, it’s kind of funny to chalk it up to sexism against women. Maybe women generally find this fantasy attractive too. Maybe it’s simply good romantic drama. Speaking just for myself,Max is one of the few things I actually like from Post-Crisis.
That’s her value to the mythos. An appealing and unique romantic Catwoman-like interest with entirely different drama than any of his others. And she’s a hell of a lot of fun.
I didn’t see a single story of her being shacked up in his fortress as his concubine just pumping out super-babies while he’s out having picnics with Lois, so even if the accusation of “sexism” had any meaning beyond a dislike button these days, the criticism of only being valuable for her uterus doesn’t apply.
Look, all these characters exist purely to serve the Superman canon in some way. Everyone but Superman is literally a tool to serve Superman. If you stop using them to service his myth and fantasy, then they simply don’t have a reason to exist, and Superman will atrophy. If writers can't put the character and market before their personal weirdo grievances and sociological vengeance against the targeted readers, then they shouldn't be writing him.
Lois Lane herself existed purely to mark the line between Clark and Supes, and to add some romantic tension and heightened catharsis. And give SA Lois (and Lana) all the guff you like, at least she was entertaining. It gave you a reason to pick up the next comic book, just to see what crazy schemes of love she’d cook up next. She was a character with a particular comic-book personality, not some sort of message-board female Singularity. And because Supes was (I presume) pretty iconically a bachelor at the time - DC didn't have to bank Superman on everyone liking Lois.
Personally, I think that when you reboot Maxima (of all people) as a lesbian teenager, she’s by definition not the same character. So, as much as I like Max, I ain’t even mad; just amused at the predictability of it. Just another reason to consider New52+ purely an experimental exercise by DC.
@switchdoctor: Maxima only saw Clark and fell in love with him because he was hot and powerful. It's one thing to be attracted to him, it's another thing entirely when you want to make a child with someone only because of that. If your only requirement for mother of your child is that she's good looking and strong you're shallow and vapid.
Again. Why can't a character be shallow or superficial? Are there no sociopaths, anti-heroes, or just broken people like that in real life? Moreover, you still haven't taken a different tack yet with this narrative of Maxima only going after Superman because he was hot and powerful. As of now, if one were to claim that you have read Maxima's debut where she talked about seeing Superman's fight against Draaga in Warworld, that would be a real strain on credulity.
Now, as far as her desire to have a child with Superman: that's all she's ever brought to the myth. All she wants to be is Superman's baby mama, and that's all she's ever wanted. That's very sexist because women are more than just baby factories.
Ah. So if any woman freely chooses to have children, or we find out that this is something that would make her happy, that woman is merely a baby factory to you? And crazy? Or worse, a mother?
While I love Maxima, and I love her flaws, especially Superman the Animated series's Maxima, she's a bad character. She needs to be better fleshed out and written.
She can keep all her flaws, but we need more than what we were presented.
Is the flaw of wanting to have babies something that she could keep, or would removing that make her a more fleshed out character?
"Doesn't even bothers to check the facts. Same o, same o..."
Here, do some research for a change: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxima_(comics)
Go to the "Other Versions" section.
Also research this: http://www.supermansupersite.com/maxima.html
Read specifically the last lines.
And has a personal note... Sometimes reading information from just one site like the Vine, doesn't give us all facts. It's always good to compare notes from other sites. I gave you two sites, but there are others saying exactly the same.
So unless you know more than everybody else. Have the humility to admit when you're partially wrong.
I gave you TWO reasons why it's not an Elseworlds story. The first is self evident, the Elseworlds imprint isn't on the cover. All you did was quote wikipedia, and another site that just copies wikipedia word for word. This is a case where the Vine is right.
And so you were right. I went to DC Comics official list of Elseworld's publications and that specific comic was not there.
Which is weird seeing that it was from DC Comics that I bought, the Elseworld's collection and that comic came with the pack.
But seeing it's not on the list, it means you were right and I was wrong.
@switchdoctor: No, but when the only ideal she cares about is his looks and power, it's pretty messed up.
Plus, the sexism of Maxima comes from the fact that her only worth to the Superman mythos is to be a vessel for his seed and to make Lois Lane look better by making her look baby crazy.
She’s attracted to him for his attractiveness and physical awesomeness? Respectfully, that’s almost a pure tautology combined with a completely obvious commendation.
She was looking for someone that would produce the best offspring, good looks and genetically-based AAA super-powers from the most biologically advanced and compatible race in the universe is pretty much A+ on the criteria; and it was in service to her royal duty, which made her an admirable character. Love is the irrational phenomenon, which made it quite endearing for her "Duty First" character.
Being baby-crazy is a point in her favour. One of the sexiest things a woman can say is that they want your babies. It’s basically the indescribably self-evident sum of all things desirable that yo’ woman would unreservedly commit herself 100% to a future with you and want to have your children (plus sex). That’s love, man. Not only are you implicitly a studly stallion of golden rocket-powered awesomesauce, she’s got faith in you, as a man and future father (and even king, in this case).
And Lois was doing the exact same thing in that story. It's how it all kicked off, so to speak.When she randomly got skittish about babies later on in Post-Crisis, I actually lost interest in reading any more issues. She actually killed the momentum of that particular buzz. (And it's a real shame, because DC could have gotten so much mileage, drama and tension out of a 'will-it-kill-her?' pregnancy.)
It’s a trope for a reason. It works.
It makes Superman look awesome by being the most eligible bachelor in the universe (as he should be), and Maxima’s sensuality, personality and vitality make her a highly attractive romantic interest. The fact that she can bear his children is a legitimately powerful seduction. Superman would want a family, would want children, and Maxima’s one of the few beings in the universe that could offer him that. And she’s an evil space queen, which by definition makes her wicked hot.
Heck, the story where Max hooked up with Supes was even written by a woman - Louise Simonson. So, it’s kind of funny to chalk it up to sexism against women. Maybe women generally find this fantasy attractive too. Maybe it’s simply good romantic drama. Speaking just for myself,Max is one of the few things I actually like from Post-Crisis.
That’s her value to the mythos. An appealing and unique romantic Catwoman-like interest with entirely different drama than any of his others. And she’s a hell of a lot of fun.
I didn’t see a single story of her being shacked up in his fortress as his concubine just pumping out super-babies while he’s out having picnics with Lois, so even if the accusation of “sexism” had any meaning beyond a dislike button these days, the criticism of only being valuable for her uterus doesn’t apply.
Look, all these characters exist purely to serve the Superman canon in some way. Everyone but Superman is literally a tool to serve Superman. If you stop using them to service his myth and fantasy, then they simply don’t have a reason to exist, and Superman will atrophy. If writers can't put the character and market before their personal weirdo grievances and sociological vengeance against the targeted readers, then they shouldn't be writing him.
Lois Lane herself existed purely to mark the line between Clark and Supes, and to add some romantic tension and heightened catharsis. And give SA Lois (and Lana) all the guff you like, at least she was entertaining. It gave you a reason to pick up the next comic book, just to see what crazy schemes of love she’d cook up next. She was a character with a particular comic-book personality, not some sort of message-board female Singularity. And because Supes was (I presume) pretty iconically a bachelor at the time - DC didn't have to bank Superman on everyone liking Lois.
Personally, I think that when you reboot Maxima (of all people) as a lesbian teenager, she’s by definition not the same character. So, as much as I like Max, I ain’t even mad; just amused at the predictability of it. Just another reason to consider New52+ purely an experimental exercise by DC.
Well said.
I have to say, I find it funny how people jumped the gun with the idea that Maxima is lesbian, in the New 52. Yes, she was close to Supergirl, especially right at the very end, but there was no kiss, or the two of them getting it on. I wouldn't even call it flirting.
One of the things we have to take into consideration is that the New 52 reboot of Maxima didn't do her any favors. She's obviously younger, somewhere around Kara's age, and for all we know she's experimenting. She might be bisexual for all we know.
And ultimately none of that matters, really. To me question that should be asked is, would she be a good addition to Superman comics?! In the past I'd say absolutely, but now. Not so sure. True that Maxima started out by being a little too aggressive when it came to try and make Supes mate with her. But her character evolved with time. To the point she no longer was so self-centered. And we got to take into account that Maxima upbringing in the Almerac society, where mates are chosen for their genetic improvement of the race. And Maxima knew that her being part of the ruling government of Almerac, it was expected of her to produce heirs genetically superior. And if she wasn't able to find a suitable mate on her own, the ruling government would choose one for her. And if that doesn't mess with a person mind, I don't know what does.
Maxima max potential was never really explored in the past. She could've been not only a great solo character, but when it came to Superman, she could've been a real challenge for Lois. And that would've also been very interesting to see. After all, in the past Lois only adversary to Superman heart was Lana, and even then it was clear that Clark no longer saw Lana in a romantic point of view, so has challenges go, Lois always had it easy. It would've been interesting to have seen Maxima grow has a character, and still being around Superman. Not openly wanting to seduce him, but proving through her actions, that he had other options. But with this reboot, I wonder if she wouldn't be more like a headacke than a actual ally.
But right now I'm happy with his current relationship. It's been developing slowly but it's show improvements. Of course none of this should be an impediment for other female characters to be part of his life. Maxima would be a good addition, one way or another.
And seeing that Superman is already starting to lose female characters to other comics. Like Livewire. The reboot could've introduce Livewire in a new, better way. And Superman wouldn't have need to have lost her to Batgirl. Which by the way, was a terrible reboot in my opinion.
And who says Livewire. Also says Starfire, Veritas, Lourdes Lucero (aka Enchantress), Lourdes (Pax Galactica)....
2.) What's Maxima reasoning for wanting a child? She doesn't just want to be a mother; she just wants "perfect" children.
3.) Dump it.
I don't think you would be asking about what her reasons were for wanting children if you had more of a grasp of her original character. So, what if she wants perfect children? What's wrong with having one powerful character like her in the comic book universe with that kind of a motivation? You called Maxima vapid earlier. How are you bored by her character?
And so you were right. I went to DC Comics official list of Elseworld's publications and that specific comic was not there.
Which is weird seeing that it was from DC Comics that I bought, the Elseworld's collection and that comic came with the pack.
But seeing it's not on the list, it means you were right and I was wrong.
That's an interesting detail that you're sharing about how this story came in a pack when you bought it. Here's what my experience has been following this story. Lois fans absolutely hate this issue primarily because of the cover portraying Maxima sitting on her grave, and secondly, for the fact that Ms. Lane died really early bearing Superman's child. I've seen the vitriol. If you look up Superman being a dick, the cover comes up. I wanted to find out what the fuss was all about, and why it was being called an 'Elseworlds' book. To my surprise, I discovered that the imprint was nowhere to be found. So it dawned on me. The Elseworlds publication imprint is for stories that don't count within DC's main canon. If you are someone trying to create a Lois Lane safe space, pulling the 'Elseworlds' lever on this Maxima story is a clever way of discounting its legitimacy as part of the main canon and tacitly denying that it ever happened. You could argue that recent events with Convergence have made this less important, but in principle, I would counter that it's worth making note of it for future reference.
I have to say, I find it funny how people jumped the gun with the idea that Maxima is lesbian, in the New 52. Yes, she was close to Supergirl, especially right at the very end, but there was no kiss, or the two of them getting it on. I wouldn't even call it flirting.
It’s just more fun to say than ‘possibly-exclusively-romantically-interested-in-other-girls-but-maybe-bisexual-or-experimenting-who-knows teenager’… Okay, I was wrong, that was actually pretty fun.
No diff. Still a deliberate inversion of Max’s character and culture for the sake of a malicious political correction.
But right now I'm happy with his current relationship. It's been developing slowly but it's show improvements.
That's good to hear. DC teased this pair for long enough - they need to give it all it's worth.
I like the possibilities of Veritas and Pax Galactica Lourdes. No offense, but I just don’t see WW as anything but an inherently planetary hero, whereas Superman is interstellar to cosmic. I’ve always thought his main ‘super-interests’ should come from the stars, tempting him away from the earth. Bit of a John Carter schtick, I guess.
Hm. Starfire. Objectively, it’s a good choice with interesting possibilities. Subjectively, Starfire skews a little young in my mind. I know her comic self is different than TV self – but it still seems just a tad Batman and Barbs for me. Let the Robins keep their friggin’ girlfriends for once.
But I’m sure I’m an outlier in that regard.
Come to think of it, the fact that she’s some kind of Heinlein free love hedonist in the comics would probably play hilariously against Superman’s ol’ country Kent values (you know, assuming he still has them in this continuity). I always get a lot of enjoyment out of seeing Superman frustrate the people in his life. Might be good for her. I’ve got nothing against an Ice crush.
You know, I don’t think Platinum gets enough love. Maybe she’s not made of steel, but she’s cute as a platinum button. AI girls always make adorable cheerleaders – and she’s probably safer than most in a Supes environment.
As a side-note on the ‘Elseworlds’ thing. It’s kind of a take-it-or-leave-it reader’s choice, I think. "A Future That Could Be". I like to think of it as a potentially frustrated destiny.
Ironically, Maxima's a lesbian now and is, supposedly, infatuated with Supergirl.
Maxima was changed into a lesbian teen because aparently we Superman fans had to learn the lesson that a fictional villain/anti-heroine space princess wanting the **ck of a hero is a sexist trope. I wonder if we'll also get stories where Talia, Cheshire and Shado are also turned into lesbians. Detail: in those cases the anti-heroines actually got the **cks and the children of the heroes. This is the oldest trope ever. Marvel also has examples of this, like Cap. America and Diamondback, or Hulk and Caiera.
The details, versions and discussion of whether or not Shado 'dominated' Oliver are fascinating. Same as with Talia and Bruce. I gotta love opening the pages of a comic book and discovering that Supes has been singled out for the theater of BS one more time.
*facedesk* Oh, for f**k's sake...
Catwoman, Maxima, not to mention all the crap going on in Marvel...
The Big Two desperately need to clean house and get rid of all the Tumblr-circle-jerk fanfiction writers.
It's not that Maxima was turned into a lesbian or bisexual. I'd have no problems with that. It's that a whole page was written explaining why the old Maxima was a sexist trope. I doubt they did the same with Selina. And I doubt they'll do the same with any other similar character.
I didn't need that. I didn't deserve that. Superman fans don't deserve to be singled out like that.
She is sexist since her entire function in life was to have Superman's children because she thought they would be perfect--not for love of Superman, but purely for a superficial reason.
Maxima was silver age Lois and Lana mixed into one. However, that being said, she's a comicbook character and comic characters can always be re-written to fit the times. Lois Lane was a sexist charaicature in the silver age, but the PC reboot changed her to a more serious character.
Maxima can easily be written into a better character in the N52. I agree though: Talia "trapping" Batman was sexist, and, I don't know about this "Shoda" character, but if she raped Olly with the intent to impregnate herself its sexist--might even be borderline racist. Selina isn't sexist because she is a woman who wants to take charge of her sexuality since she was a "woman of the night" since her inception.
I don't know why Superman gets higher scrutiny, but I don't like it either.
I agree that she was a sexist character. I even think that she was more sexist than characters created years or decades before her. Whoever her creator was, they screwed up with the whole angle of wanting Superman's children. Just have her atracted to him, manipulating him in helping her expand her empire, or having fun with him just for the heck of it, etc.
That said, IMO, the distance between her and characters like Talia and Shado, even with this crude angle about her, is almost inexistent.
I'm pro LGBT rights, I'm pro comic books characters representing these rights. I wrote in another forum that a re-written Maxima should be bi-sexual and go for women instead of Supes. I'm happy for the LGBT people, but there was a very heavy handed message about the way she was presented.
I agree that she was a sexist character. I even think that she was more sexist than characters created years or decades before her. Whoever her creator was, they screwed up with the whole angle of wanting Superman's children. Just have her atracted to him, manipulating him in helping her expand her empire, or having fun with him just for the heck of it, etc.
That said, IMO, the distance between her and characters like Talia and Shado, even with this crude angle about her, is almost inexistent.
I'm pro LGBT rights, I'm pro comic books characters representing these rights. I wrote in another forum that a re-written Maxima should be bi-sexual and go for women instead of Supes. I'm happy for the LGBT people, but there was a very heavy handed message about the way she was presented.
It just comes to show, just how much stuff still exists in the 20th century.
People talk about LGBT the same way one walks on egg shells. Something along the path always gets broken. And comics although generally a vanguard when it comes to progress, still treats sexuality like a ticking time bomb.
I always loved Maxima outward approach. Sure, she was down right brutal when it came down to it, but times have changed. Relationships are not what they used to be. The masks, for the most part, are off.
I got no problem with LGBT, I got friends in pratically every letter. And I got no problem mostly thanks to my folks. From early on I was taught to think for myself and not follow the messiah of the day up the hill, and do harm in the name and ideas of others. I'm a heterosexual and I don't plan on moving from that team. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna gundown all those that are not. We each are responsible for our own decisions. There's no religion or philosophy that can bend the truth that's staring us in the face.
Either be it Maxima or Diana. Superman as a character should be seen exploring more. Even if Maxima was to enter Superman or Supergirl life, as a friend or lover. To me it's all the same.
Maxima character has been downright prejudiced over the years. She was a warrior, she was smart, she viewed sex for what it really is... A natural thing. But the problem resided in the genre. She was a woman. I'd bet a million bucks that if it was a character named Maximus, a man, that wanted to had sex with Supergirl until her eyes bled from pleasure. And wanted to have kids with her, the reaction would've been quite different.
I know that comics walk that path of egg shells, still. It's quite obvious. Because of how they do it. Take Starfire for example. She's probably the only sexual free, without inhibitions, character in all DC Comics. And what's worst is how women react to her. I've read some of the most nasty things that can be said, only because she's what she is. And I got to say, I love what she is. She's freedom in a way many of us only dream off. If I got a woman like her, I'd never let her go.
Has for Maxima. If DC is smart, they'll reintroduce Maxima, in every way she deserves to be. And they'll do it proudly. Because there's no other way to reintroduce her. Any less and they might has well leave her be.
@superguy1591: you're purposely oversimplifying here. That is not true. Maxima wants to rule, start a powerful race that will rule the universe. She is essentially selfish, evil and WILL kill whoever stands in her way. She later evolved but several writers fked it up.
I agree that she was a sexist character. I even think that she was more sexist than characters created years or decades before her. Whoever her creator was, they screwed up with the whole angle of wanting Superman's children. Just have her atracted to him, manipulating him in helping her expand her empire, or having fun with him just for the heck of it, etc.
That said, IMO, the distance between her and characters like Talia and Shado, even with this crude angle about her, is almost inexistent.
I'm pro LGBT rights, I'm pro comic books characters representing these rights. I wrote in another forum that a re-written Maxima should be bi-sexual and go for women instead of Supes. I'm happy for the LGBT people, but there was a very heavy handed message about the way she was presented.
It just comes to show, just how much stuff still exists in the 20th century.
People talk about LGBT the same way one walks on egg shells. Something along the path always gets broken. And comics although generally a vanguard when it comes to progress, still treats sexuality like a ticking time bomb.
I always loved Maxima outward approach. Sure, she was down right brutal when it came down to it, but times have changed. Relationships are not what they used to be. The masks, for the most part, are off.
I got no problem with LGBT, I got friends in pratically every letter. And I got no problem mostly thanks to my folks. From early on I was taught to think for myself and not follow the messiah of the day up the hill, and do harm in the name and ideas of others. I'm a heterosexual and I don't plan on moving from that team. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna gundown all those that are not. We each are responsible for our own decisions. There's no religion or philosophy that can bend the truth that's staring us in the face.
Either be it Maxima or Diana. Superman as a character should be seen exploring more. Even if Maxima was to enter Superman or Supergirl life, as a friend or lover. To me it's all the same.
Maxima character has been downright prejudiced over the years. She was a warrior, she was smart, she viewed sex for what it really is... A natural thing. But the problem resided in the genre. She was a woman. I'd bet a million bucks that if it was a character named Maximus, a man, that wanted to had sex with Supergirl until her eyes bled from pleasure. And wanted to have kids with her, the reaction would've been quite different.
I know that comics walk that path of egg shells, still. It's quite obvious. Because of how they do it. Take Starfire for example. She's probably the only sexual free, without inhibitions, character in all DC Comics. And what's worst is how women react to her. I've read some of the most nasty things that can be said, only because she's what she is. And I got to say, I love what she is. She's freedom in a way many of us only dream off. If I got a woman like her, I'd never let her go.
Has for Maxima. If DC is smart, they'll reintroduce Maxima, in every way she deserves to be. And they'll do it proudly. Because there's no other way to reintroduce her. Any less and they might has well leave her be.
Sigh. That 1st post I made was horrible. I had a full, well written post in my mind to talk about this issue, in a civilized manner, instead I made an angry post that's offensive to the LGBT community. I'm not an homophobe, not a misogynist, I'm completely pro LGBT rights and representation in comics. It's not walking on eggshells, it's having the most basic respect for different views and preferences, and I failed completely, the written equivalent of gultural grunts and roars.
It stung a little the page that talks about how the old Maxima was a sexist trope, while I see similar charactes still going around without a magnifying glass over them, but I can only agree with the message if DC's objective is to sell more comics to both genders. I agree that Maxima could have been re-written/re-introduced as a more interesting foil to the Superman character, but it's no great loss if she becomes more part of Supergirl's cast.
It's just disconcerting to see articles on comic book sites nowadays that articulate that many different female characters have their own brand of feminism, from Wonder Woman through Furiosa to Harley Queen, but still, once again, the Superman universe was picked to serve as the example. I just have this funny notion that if Maxima was part of a certain other character's universe, she'd be considered a feminist character who knows what she likes and fights for what she wants.
Look at Starfire: I've seen a post on Deviantart complaining that while both Starfire and Superman are solar powered, Superman is fully clothed and Starfire is semi naked. And Superman is intelligent while Starfire kisses to learn the language. Superman is the noble last survivor while Starfire is an... enslaved... space... princess... who wants Dick... A full crescendo of revolt against Superman. And Starfire was created as DICK GRAYSON's LOVE INTEREST.
What the hell. I just wish that comic book feminists would open their eyes a little bit.
@switchdoctor: No, but when the only ideal she cares about is his looks and power, it's pretty messed up.
Plus, the sexism of Maxima comes from the fact that her only worth to the Superman mythos is to be a vessel for his seed and to make Lois Lane look better by making her look baby crazy.
And unfortunately that's only your own and completely subjective opinion.
She went from a space Queen of a fascist empire who wanted one of the most powerful beings of the universe as her mate, so she could create a race of genetically superior beings capable of keep conquering worlds to assimilate their genetic worth and rise their power and ensure her tyrannic realm. Into a troubled teenager who's parents cannot accept her sexuality. Oh boy, she's so much more interesting now, and so inclusive and non sexist in any form .. well except she got mad at a guy flirting with girls that liked him but hey, since it was a male it's sexist so she was rightfully offended !.
I love how inclusive she is now, because you know, we cannot have original minorities characters !, that would be crazy, imagine if minorities start believing they can be more than shadows of original characters ? < This is sarcsm. Srly, it's not inclusive make a straight character into a lesbian, it's insulting, it's basically telling the readers that homosexual characters cannot be worth anything unless they are original characters converted into that sexuality, that they're not worth enough of being original characters.
Point here is, they turned a cool character into a worthless PC character, and it's not even PC at all, it's only new purpose fails so hard, it's like they killed Maxima for nothing.
At this point, I honestly couldn't give less of a s**t about any minority whinging or whatever. You've pushed way too hard, so don't be surprised when people stop caring about your offended opinions entirely and tell you to get the f**k out as the first response before writing and drawing more hot space redheads exclusively interested in dark-haired, muscled supermen and rejoicing in the sounds of your impotent screaming.
Me personally I think they shouldn't do this stop changing original characters to fit your agenda. Like they did to Velma. You want to represent Create original characters and portrait them as such. I swear I hate what they do this is what they did to harley quinn too. The original author wanted harlet to have a friend not love interest same with ivy. Nowadays people can not see two people with the same sex as friends and not ship them or so, this is just foul and I'm sad that this is what the world is. This isn't fair it the slightest. 😒
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