Can someone explain that to me? I keep reading people calling him "edgy" and I don't know if it's a generation thing, but he's far from edgy to me. Can the people who keep calling him edgy post scans of this edgy Superman?

P.S. everything post 5 year time skip Superman does not count, you can only use Superman from Action Comics 8 to Action Comics # 32 (25 is also excluded), Superman 1-32 and JL post Origins. Those versions of N52 Superman are no longer in effect.

Post away.

Don't know don't care. New 52 Superman is my Superman.

He's not written as naive as Pre-52 Superman.

@saint_wildcard: Not for you guys, I'm talking about the guys I read on the Superman # 32 review who kept saying that it didn't read like a N52 book because it wasn't as "edgy" as other N52 Superman books.

I know, and Im sure they will answer. But I don't care what the old timers have to say, I likes what I likes.

Edgy also means to try to make something innovative but there isn't much innovation with New52 Supes.

I actually like him now that his titles are in good hands, but I know the reasons I didn't before:

• Looking at Lois' text, coming of as a jealous creeper and everything else Lobdell.
• His relationship with Batman in B/S is idiotic and created to please the inferiority complex of the fanboys.
• He fights before he thinks, JL: War is a perfect example.

Anyway New52 Superman had a rough couple of years and I definetely see why I didn't like him. He started getting shape though and with Johns, Pak and Snyder on the helm, he certaintly looks better.

@maccyd said:

@saint_wildcard said:

@superguy1591 said:

@saint_wildcard: Not for you guys, I'm talking about the guys I read on the Superman # 32 review who kept saying that it didn't read like a N52 book because it wasn't as "edgy" as other N52 Superman books.

I know, and Im sure they will answer. But I don't care what the old timers have to say, I likes what I likes.

They can do their worst

Sums up my thoughts exactly and I'll add everything that happened in the Superman title prior to Lobdell as other sources of bad, edgy new 52 Superman writing.

Though Pak does keep a slight edginess and brashness to the character that took me some getting used to. It's why I'll probably stick with Johns' Superman even after Doomed is finished in Action Comics.

@squalleon: JL: War is mainly John misinterpreting Morrisons' early Superman as otherwise Johns writes a pretty normal Superman.

Yeah, I get what you mean about Pak's Superman. While I like the characterazation, he feels like a newbie even though he is in the bussiness for 6-7 years, I wouldn't have a problem if he was a year 2 Superman. Overall I like his Superman in AC, because he tries to be positive and give anyone a second chance. His B/S though is another matter!

And? It was bad no?
I don't give excuses to any writer. Bad characterazation is bad characterazation no matter who wrote it or why. If Johns felt he wasn't up to the task he should get some advice from Morrison since these two are actually pretty close as colleagues anyway.

@squalleon: Yeah, but it was a once off, you don't need to hold it against the entire characterization of the New 52 Superman.

It wasn't just JL war, Superman was a mess until Johns came on. Also new 52 Superman has 3 years of existence in his back, that means that the 6 issues of JL and Superman's 31 issues are actually a huge amount of his showings and stories! And that is without adding the first two arcs of B/S.

Because most people have no idea what the word "edgy" actually means.

@squalleon: Oh that's bad, I don't usually include Lobdell in the characterization of New 52, but you do remember that his handiwork is all over the character.

You know it is bad when you figure out that Lobdell is the longest running writer in a Superman title since the new 52...

I posted this on another thread. It seems more relevant here.

Just wanna share my opinion on New 52 superman.

Personally i'm disgusted with how easily i was led astray by some of the viners here who dislike the new 52 superman. Normally i like giving things a chance but i broke out my pitchfork and torch with new 52 Superman. Then i decided to back and read my justice league trade paper backs and some of the other new 52 superman stories and i was astonished by what i found. He's not that bad [i can't stress that enough]. In justice league origin yeah he attacked green lantern and bats but only because they attacked first and he was curious to see what they knew. After realising they were fighting the good fight he had no trouble fighting alongside them. Throughout the book he was quiet but when he spoke people listened. The reason is perfectly summed up by the flash in book two and it is because he his charismatic. In throne of atlantis he saved people. I don't know why viners like Lvenger and others are saying he's stopped saving people when in said book as soon as he saw the wave was coming he jumped to people's rescue stopping the aircraft carrier. Yeah he doesn't talk as much but that's mainly because he's a more tactical fighter ending things quickly because he knows he can. He is not arrogant nor does he think himself over anybody. In fact the way he shows wonder woman why he likes being clark kent is one of the most heart warming things i've seen him do in a long time. Then we have the trinity war and the dreaded doctor light incident. First of all i implore people to pick up the trinity war TPB and read it throughly. Superman was that distressed because he thought he'd killed someone that he ended the fight between the justice league and the JLA and let himself be taken into custody. Wonder woman even said that he may not come back from it. Now we could have him spending the rest of his life brooding over it and thinking woe is me but rather he moved past it and is becoming a better hero. Yes he's recently killed doomsday but then what did he do. He showed his level of commitment to saving people and took all of the doomsday particles into himself and became doomsday's new prision. Personally i believe new 52 superman is going to surpass pre 52 superman and become a better superman in the same way i believe MOS superman will become better than Reeve's superman. It will take time but i'm sure it will happen.

That's just bs. Hes still the same guy.

@squalleon:

1.) Meh, not really something I will defend. That wasn't a good part of the N52 character. The best part of Lobdell, Jurgens and Perez's run was Helspont, the heck happened to him?

2.) Nah, I like that. Batman is a tool to him, he reacts in the most human of ways and gets back at him.

3.)Probably the best thing about N52 Superman. He's headstrong, thus prone to mistakes, but is always willing to learn from it.

Hey @saint_wildcard see what I mean.

As for you @superguy1591 we have been at all these again, so just go back and check them again I guess.

@lvenger: You just won't let my guy Pak be the best, right? I guarantee you that, post-Doom, he'll have the better book of the two. I love Geoff, but Pak is going to be better. I'm glad to have both though, hope they work on a crossover next May.

This. I've said it time and again.

I think you mean pre (or before), not post.

@superguy1591: You can wish all you want but based on Superman fans I've talked to on here, other online praise and critical reception, it'll only be you who clings to Pak's Action Comics as being written better. Whereas Johns' Superman might turn out to be another equivalent of Green Arrow, a polished turd that shines off all the nastiness of its previous writers. If disavowed New 52 critics are tempted by this issue, then that's ample evidence Johns is capable of restoring the classical tenants of Superman back to the character. Now he's not writing an angry, aggressive rip off from Morrison's Superman, Superman can start being the moral icon he's known for being and Johns is one writer who understands the core and heart of the character.

So, in essence, I guarantee to you that Johns' Superman will blow Pak's Action Comics out the water by far. I'm already liking the sound of it even without having read the issue whereas I never felt that way about Pak's Action Comics at all.

And for the record, you're the one who engaged me here feeling the need to defend your precious Pak. I do like his first Action Comics arc as it was a fresh breath of air. There is some nice characterisation in Superman and Lana. But that's all. Think of any other positives of Pak's run and you'll be hard pressed to do so. Besides, Superman should not be acting as brashly or as erroneously as he does. He's been a hero for 5 years now yet Pak writes him like he's only been on the job for 2. Pak started the ball rolling, now Johns will take over as the new flagship saviour writer for Superman. Not to mention that Unchained is superb too.

You don't like Green Arrow? Or did I misunderstood?

Haters gon' hate

Sorry should have made it clearer, my bad mate. I meant that Jeff Lemire turned one of the worst titles in The New 52 into one of the best titles and it seems Superman is receiving a similar treatment thanks to the transition from Lobdell to Johns.

A long time ago, this was how I felt as well. And this is also why I hate public opinion 9 times out of 10, because a large portion of it are individuals either getting swept up in "going with the flow" or hesitant to speak out because of being trashed for their tastes. It was around the time of the GL Recharge that I finally read a Superman comic, and before then, I was one of the most obnoxious Superman bashers around. After I finally read it, Death of Superman, I was hooked. Not to say all of his comics were masterpieces, but many were great reads.

Since the New 52, I've actually liked Superman better. He seems more of a man finding his identity rather than being the person people want him to be. He doesn't have a perfect personality, which people still can't seem to get over. He can be hotheaded at times, he can be impulsive and there are times his instincts are to think with his fists. But everyone also seems to forget he also has shown a major concern for life, the extent he's willing to go to protect others, and how strongly he strives to do what he thinks is right. If that's not a man you can look up to, I don't know what is.

@squalleon: To be fair, reading JL 30 and JL 31, Johns is writing Superman to be a lot more mature, calmer and yet still remain Superman tough.

Did I ever mentioned anything past JL: Origins?
Johns' Superman really improved since JL Throne of Atlantis. And he really wrote him well in Superman 32.

@reactor: People won't admit it, but he's a much better character. The PC version was so...blah. He was as predictable as porn. What's worst, it was the good porn, it was softcore.

I like my Superman fallible.

Well said.

cause for some reason the meaning dark and edgey has changed for some reason. I don't get how new 52 superman is that heck the guy is still as sanctimonious as ever, even kara had to complain about it lol.

As i said maybe the definition of it has changed since i met a kid that thought the jackie chan and jayden smith karate kid was the original movie.

@lvengersaid:

QFT.

I like how opinions become facts on the Superman forums.

Welcome to the internet. However my opinions are facts in real life too unlike these other people ;)

@farkam:

Lol. I do admit that Pak's characterization is off ONLY because of the time skip. Superman is supposed to be what, about 25-26 years old currently? Pak is writing him, brilliantly I might add, as a 21-22 year old. I believe Clark would have matured past his current attitude by the time he was 25-26 years old. That is a glaring issue IMO. I don't get the logic behind that 5 year thing. It was the most asinine thing I've experienced since I started reading comics.

What people are admitting is that New 52 Superman has been more edgy, wayward and uncharacteristic in terms of how New 52 Superman has acted. The better receptions of New 52 Superman is when writers depict him acting more like Classic Superman in the Pre New 52 universe e.g Snyder's Unchained and Johns' Superman run rather than less. That's where most of the praise comes from. A few people trying to force the contradictory opinion doesn't change how New 52 Superman is only well received when he doesn't act like he's been doing so in the New 52.