How exactly does Lex beat Superman when Superman can fly many times faster than time, has pico second reaction time, strength to bench press the planet for 5 days without the sun, fought Kryptonite Man a guy made of his weakness etc?

SCIENCE! Lex does not suit up, stroll down the street and wait to duke it out with him. He plans, schemes, sets the deck in his favor, covers his ass with insurance's and back up plans before he goes to destroy Superman.

And as far as I am aware Lex has never bested Superman in a physical duel, mental one's I am sure there are many times Lex has won by causing Superman to "lose". Superman values life and if Lex could distract him long enough for one person who Superman could have saved to die Lex has in a way won.

From what I've read, which isn't much I admit, Lex's plans always had weaknesses that if the writers let Superman utilize his powers a bit better, Superman could easily beat Lex but Superman always goes the long and hard way, and sometimes even loses.

@mister_pimping: He uses distractions, hurts somebody that Superman cares about for the sake of slowing him down and baiting him. That worked in the intro to DC Universe Online.

Bold is bullset.

To address everything else

Flight=/=Combat speed

Strength=/=striking force.

In New 52, his punches were strong enough to shake the entirety of the Earth from the very core to the farthest reaches of the atmosphere.

By flight, I meant speed blitzing.

I meant nano second. There are three feats for the nanosecond claim. The first from an issue of Action Comics Weekly,the second from a Superman arc featuring Ultraman and the Crime Syndicate, and the third from JLA: Black Baptism.

@mister_pimping:

Well, faster than time I don't know about that, but faster than light, sure.

The problem with Superman speed, is that he's not the Flash. He doesn't conveniently produces a field that basically cancels out the effects of his speed. If Superman was to go even partialy out, in terms of speed, he'd kill everyone in his path. So on Earth he severly limits his speed. True that even at below supersonic speeds he'd still be faster than Luthor but not fast enough if Luthor puts him in a situation where he has to leave to save people. And even when he catches Luthor either the military or the government offer him a pardon for his crimes as long as he helps them develop a new anti-Superman weapon. So maybe Superman doesn't even put that much effort catching him.

Has for kryptonite. Here all logic goes out the window. If you remember in almost every version of Superman, we start off with a small chunk of kryptonite, in the New 52 there were like less than 8 small shards. And you've seen what's happened since then. Superman faced off against the green kryptonite man and was able to last quite well against him, but then later on when Despero attacked the Justice League satellite and Superman had to stop it from crashing on Earth, the minute he came too close to Despero kryptonite ring, he went immediately down. He didn't flintched or shown signs of weakness like he usually does. No! Immediately on the floor. So has kryptonite goes its all very weird. Like for example how come a small shard produces basically the same effect as a bigger piece of kryptonite. When kryptonite enters the picture, it's all up to the writer.

Has for his strength and other powers, the same principle as his speed also applies. If Superman really went all out he could've killed Luthor a million times over, but Superman doesn't kill. His consciousness weights down on him more than a island made of kryptonite.

Read All Star Superman.

@_nox_:

Don't quite understand the reference, but maybe your seeing something that I don't.

After all, Lex didn't beat Superman, in fact Lex unwillingly helped Superman save humanity and Lex got beaten by using Superman powers. So in All Star Lex didn't simply failed, he epically failed.

Superman even got new powers to add to the one's he already has and even got a major vulnerability reduction to green kryptonite. It weakened him a little but could no longer kill him.

@heavenlydarkdragon:

Lex killed Superman. He knew what would happen to his cells if he got to close to the sun or did we read a different comic? Whether he helped him or not doesn't matter.

No. We read the same comic only I remember the details better has it seems.

First of all Superman didn't die, he started to transform into pure energy.

The Gold Superman that appeared through the lightning gate, was none other than the original Superman from the future, on his completed transformation look.

So Superman didn't died. That was an assumption made by some people.

@heavenlydarkdragon:

He experienced human death, he ceased to exist in a physical form. Whether he re-incarnates as a god is unimportant and merely implied.

He technically "died".

Well, based on Justice League 45 He becomes Darskeid

Yes. He technically died. In that regard you're right. The problem being he didn't stay dead.

Here's some show and tell...

Here's him. In his gold Superman-Prime form from the future. Quite alive has you can see.

And here's the part that got people so confused. Because Superman says that Luthor "fatally overdosed" him, which is true. Only the fatal part began a transformation instead of permanent death. Has he so clearly states when he says he's becoming pure energy, pure information. And when he says that he has only moments to save the world he meant two things 1) he didn't entirelly understood what was happening to him, has far has he knew he could blow up and take he entire planet with him 2) the sun had been turned blue, so it was much hotter than a yellow sun, meaning that if he didn't acted soon, the entire planet was gonna be cooked.

So in the end he didn't stay dead. He will come to be the gold Superman you see on the previous scan.

That part fell unto Luthor (that guy has more lives than a thousand cats put together). So if Superman hadn't left the planet so soon he'd not only be god of Strength but also god of Apokolips.

@heavenlydarkdragon: So it's Superman's character (for speed and strength) and plot (for kryptonite) which give Luthor the win?

@mister_pimping:

When Lex wins or gets a victory 9 out of 10 times it's plot convenience.

When I examine those two, Supes and Lex, I do it logically and emotionless. I take all I know of Lex and what he's been shown to do for all these past decades, and I do the same for Superman. And then I mentally create simulations where I explore all the possibilities.

And if we do it logically and emotionless then the result should be that 9 out of 10 times Superman beats Lex.

But writers aren't emotionless. In fact they're the opposite, they cary their emotions to their comics, which many times creates situations where one can only say "Man. That's plot convenience if I ever saw one."

In almost every situation where Lex gets the upper hand is when Superman rushes in without even bothering to scan the scenario. Which to someone that's shown he can process information faster than light itself, if he used that superbrain of his with the exception of magic, he would never get caught off guard, while enemies were trying to land a punch or strike on him he'd already landed like a billion punches in less than a second, and most of all there would be no exploring his vulnerabilities.

Kryptonite: Given his sensory perception, he should be able to move fast enough to move away from it before it affects him too much.

Psychics: Given the power of his processing speed alone, he should be able to accelerate his brain to such a degree that even the strongest psychic couldn't keep up.

Red sunlight: Again given his brain abilities and the speed at which he can learn he should be able to incorporate into his suit a energy converter so when exposed to red sunlight the suit would immediately absorb that energy and turn it into yellow or above.

So we arrive at the point where clearly most of the times when Superman is defeated it's because the writer wanted it to happen to fit the plot.

If Superman was shown all the time using his abilities to the max, then the only adversaries able to even cause him trouble or pain, would be the ones almost/has/more powerful than him. Which would take really good writers to come up with stories to fit those standards, that wouldn't feel tempted to use the same old tricks or conveniently put Superman in a position where he starts the fight already in the knife edge.

@heavenlydarkdragon: I guess I agree with you.

@heavenlydarkdragon: Yea, But you gotta give props to Lex in Superman: Red Son. He owned superman in that one!

@mlgzed:

Yes and no.

Again we get a Superman living very short of his true potential.

Many people believe that Superman as shown us all he can do, but that's not true at all.

Superman or any other kryptonian, all live very short of their true potential.

Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, Green Lanterns and many others we see them already at their max. But a kryptonian not only doesn't fully understand how his or her powers work, but also they're never shown really training. Exploring the limits of their powers.

Superman is in my opinion the character in comic books with the worst mastering over his powers.

Plot

@heavenlydarkdragon: Well that's because Superman is meant to be more of a philosophical character. A man with near limitless powers and ability and is only restricted by his own personality. Of course lex luthor,and 99 percent of the DC universe couldn't best him in a fair fuel. The only person that can beat superman if I remember correctly is a full power Spectre. But In red Son , lex luthor was like a hidden variable to superman. Superman never took him 100 percent seriously because why would he ? Lex is nothing but a mere human. Braniac was able to realize lex luthor's threat , saying that superman should not talk to him , because according to his calculations he could make him commit suicide in 14 minutes. Lex luthor sent tactic after tactic and person after person to kill superman , but no matter what superman comes up on top, and superman pretty much solidifies his empire. So lex simply tells him, since you clearly are OP and are enforcing your communist empire using that opness why not just put the world in a bottle? Lex completely attacked superman's only real weak point, which most other superman enemies aren't smart enough to do.

But of course , there are universes where Superman just snaps and his personality is no longer a weakness, and he has killed lex luthor before.

Plot armour then he wins. , and he does'nt he's not even close as smart as Batman, wich cn beat him trough stratagies not making a robot or giving him krytonite.

I still don't get why Lex isn't dead after rebirth when doomsday had Lex's head in his hands. He should crushed it without even trying (or even accidentally while trying to hold it)

All Superman ever needed to do was punch Lex in the face, the fact he does not, is all the reason Lex ever stands a chsnce. Superman doesn't punch down. So Lex gets a pass until he decides to throw the first punch.