Did he? Gawd, I'm a bad Catholic if I didn't know that

Superman is one of those characters who's always said to have a grounding mechanism. Whether it be the Daily Planet, The Kents or banging Lois, something is meant to keep Clark level headed, human and prevent him from turning into a dictator. I don't believe he needs any of them, which is why I resent them.

@saintwildcard:

Christian tradition represents Mary as a widow during the adult ministry of her son. Joseph is not mentioned as being present at the Wedding at Cana at the beginning of Jesus's mission, nor at the Passion at the end. If he had been present at the Crucifixion, he would under Jewish custom have been expected to take charge of Jesus's body, but this role is instead performed by Joseph of Arimathea. Nor would Jesus have entrusted his mother to the care of John the Apostle if her husband was alive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Joseph Yes, Joseph died before Jesus started his ministry.

He may not need a grounding mechanism but he should be surrounded by them nonetheless to remind him why he has such a strong love and affinity for humanity. Otherwise Superman's character suffers for it.

Are you gonna tag me when replying or are you just hoping I find your comments? As for your statement, it all sounds the same to me. Clark should want to be with them, not need. I think that diminishes him and makes him seem like a freak who needs his fix.

@saintwildcard: Since we're not always fond of our mutual interactions, I just sometimes make statements that expand upon points brought up in threads and develop my own opinions from them. There was no obligation on your part to answer this post at all, not like in our other disagreements. And whilst Superman should want rather than need human interaction, his character/comic history shows that if he doesn't have human characters to ground him or relate off, his stories suffer for it. There's nothing wrong with needing to connect with others, it's a basic human need and although he isn't human, Clark was nonetheless raised as one and should always try and connect with others in his stories. That's something a certain recent incarnation is failing at more and more lately.

Well, all I'm saying is, Superman shouldn't have to lose any family for there to be a message for him. I kind of prefer if he lost someone else. Not friend, but maybe...a lover. You know? Not Lana. Not Lori. DEFINITELY not Lois. But maybe, an original female character he grows to love only to lose her. Maybe I sound a bit of a jerk, but like Squalleon said when he first commented, it will hold some significance. Everyone has to suffer loss sooner or later. Even Superman. I just don't think it should be the only father he has known in life. He is already an orphan. Why should he experience that all over again (even if Martha IS still around)?

@saintwildcard: I'll stop when BvS comes out. As for that MoS thread.

A-I said I'd stop debating about MoS (but I couldn't last 24 hours :] )

B- As pointed out in point A, MoS month will have nothing to do with debating anyway.

C- I only plan on making 4 threads during that MOnth about MoS.

I'm looking forward to this Man of Steel month of yours and I too plan on quitting once BVS comes out, because that's the only time the polarizing debate towards the movie will end. Thanks again for your Seal of Approval on my MOS: Understanding the Misunderstood thread. That means a lot coming from one of the three Elites of Superman fandom (You, Lvenger, and Squalleon).

Should be interesting. YOu're welcome, I plan on rereading for MoS month. I also plan on watching the movie and the special features, and reading blogs from both sides of the fences (pro and con), so I that I can do a fully educated review. That will be one of the things for MoS month. I also hope to have enough video suggestions so that I can do the Superman video tournament. Should be a fun month :)

@saintwildcard: Oh, assuming you don't already know about it, check out manofsteelanswers.com. Via video clips and articles, it pretty much counters every REASONABLE complaint/criticism towards the movie, even the tornado and neck-snapping scenes.

Short answer, yes. Sadly. The reason being, like said above, it shows that not even Superman can save everyone and it needed to happen for Clark to become Superman.

Demonstrating that Superman needs to be taught that he's not all powerful doesn't prescisly indicate that Pa' Kent needs to die.

It's a good lesson, but it only works the way it should if Superman believed that he could do anything. If he were more arrogant with his powers, then knocking him down a peg with that would make more sense.

The Kents ground Clark in a way Lois or Jimmy or Perry never could.

Then again, so does the Fortress of Solitude.

Jonathan's death is there for "myth-building" reasons, I think. Kill the father figure, now Superman has to be truly independent. The son becomes the father, the father becomes the son, all of that nonsense. Martha survives because mother-figures/women in general tend to be more passive in Western myths (well, it's either that or they're proto-femme fatales). There's also the "teaching Clark a lesson" that everyone else is mentioning.

I dislike this element. I feel killing either of them before Clark becomes Superman adds a layer of regret to the origin story that simply doesn't fit. I'd say have them die shortly after Superman's debut in Metropolis. You get your "lesson" without it coloring the choice to become Superman.

Both Ma and Pa Kent need to die, becusce I don't want to read about them.

Bump. I actually think the Donner version was perfect on this issue.

Jonathan should be dead of a heart attack. It's more meaningful than just offing the father figure so the hero becomes his own man cliche, it's the moment where Clark has to confront the fact that even with all his powers, he can't save everybody. But it's got to be a heart attack or something similar that Clark couldn't have prevented. Takes like Clark being a coward who lets him get sucked into a tornado is stupid. Him dying in a car crash during Clark's prom on the other hand (new 52) is way too melodramatic, like cringe-worthy melodramatic.

Whether Martha is alive or not matters little. She's already played her role in the Superman myth by the time Clark goes to Metropolis. But her being dead doesn't really hold much weight. There are valid arguments both ways. Some are afraid her being around might risk the man of steel being written as a momma's boy, but others think she's a good supporting character for writers to use. Either way has it's ups and downs.

I liked both of his parents being alive. We have seen both of his parents being alive in Lois & Clark and Superman: The Animated Series.