My friend and I got into a debate about whether superman really die or not. He says that superman originally really died and that they retconed it so that it was a "Healing coma". I say that the healing coma was in the original issue of the comic and it was not retconed at a later date. What really happened? If possible can you post scans from the original issue?

I don't have access to scans, but I say he died. The healing part was just an easier way of saying he came back. In recent years, just before the N52 various characters would ask Superman about death, simply because he had died.

i'd say yes, but like all things, a "reason" for them "not" dying was made. like with Captain America and Flash and pretty much every other once dead hero.

Well, they weren't actually going to keep Superman dead. They led on that he was dead for story purposes because if they had said sleeping coma it wouldn't have been the DEATH of Superman. The Return of Superman was always planned so healing coma is the correct answer, I'd say.

It wasn't a retcon if it was all part of the stories plan.

He didn't actually die, but to his friends and family, he did. It was a functional death, but in the story itself, he was just beaten into a coma that mimicked death.

Id say your friend is right, he died. But they retconned it to a coma. I guess you cant really know for sure what the plan was though, I doubt they ever intended to give him up forever - but at that moment, he died.

@bruxae: What he said was that in the original issue superman died and thats how the comic ended. Then they re released the comic with a different ending, one in which superman was in the coma

It's really, really confusing. The last interview Pak, Soule and Lobdell gave on Superman: Doomed was very confusing. They said Superman may or may not have fought Doomsday but that Doomsday hasn't shown up before. WTF, that makes absolutely no sense you guys. Has Superman ever met or fought Doomsday, yes or no? It's a simple answer.

He died...Pa Kent met him in the afterlife

Something like that. The solar energy was what kept in a coma state instead of dead. Without his super human power and had the situation been worse, Superman would be dead for sure.

@lvenger: He may have died but the circumstances would be nothing like the Death of Superman storyline.

Didn't Morrison strongly confirm that Superman already died once against Doomsday in the New 52, during his run?

There was an issue from back in the day that showed Blaze trying to get Superman's soul... so...

Edit: Adventures of Superman 500

If he didn't die, how did he become a black lantern? He died, no idea why DC changed it.

@lvenger: SM/WW, duh. He made an appearance.

Exactly my concern. If not DOS, then how did that happen?

Yeah you're right, he did. But Morrison also used Silver Age influences and basically wrote his Action Comics run as if it was his own corner of the DCU. Plus, even though some sources like Lobdell and Tomasi claim Superman has died once, others state he's never fought Doomsday before. That's my main issue here.

Seen this topic in so many diff places and everyone keeps dissing his return because of the 'healing coma' well as far as i kno maybe it was retconed to that, because i very clearly remember the eradicator telling superman in the whole return of superman story arc that he had in fact died and that the eradicator provided some kind of spark of life and the kryptonian healing chamber brought him back to normal (not fully powered though) and he also said that circumstances were just right at the time and that that couldn't ever happen again........Although in Connor's case it did and he was really dead but that took a thousand years to complete.

There may be varying accounts but I choose to believe that Pre flashpoint Superman really did die instead of that coma bs. He met his dad (who also died before being revived), he frequently states that he died, and he became a target of the Black Lanterns. As for the New 52, I have nooooo idea.

Superman didnt die. He is the golden calf of DC Comics.

Unless he went to heaven in spirit form like goku did, then came back to life, then he didnt die.

No I don't believe he died, but I think to the people he did because he wasn't around.

Personally, I will say yes, he died and through Kryptonian science mumbo jumbo, came back.

yeah he died, but they brought him back.

@lvenger: In my opinion, DOS wasn't a very good story. DC should leave it alone.

I thought he did, and met up with his father....? Dead doesn't mean anything in comics though, being in a coma or being dead pretty much the same thing. in comics

However, that comic implies Superman may very well be immortal, and the only reason he is "dead" and in the "afterlife" is because he believed he could die, due to being raised by mortal humans.

Sort of makes the Black Lantern stuff questionable.

He Died, because the Black Lantern Ring took hold of him, though it also tried to take hold of Superboy Prime.

@lvenger: I think the OP means Pre 52

@z3ro180: Yeah I realised that after posting this comment.

@lvenger: so did he die in Death of Superman or was it simply a healing coma?

@jogga: I saw that but how does that relate to DotS? Like how does it fall in time line wise? Was that him from the time of when he was dead in DoS

@dark_passenger: you think I would post this just for chuckles?

YES, he did, the pic made it quite clear.

Technically no.

@mrmxyzptlk: @jogga: @battle123axe: @dark_passenger:

So, the answer is quite simple. Yes, he died!

Sure, his return depended on more than one factor, but still he died during his fight with Doomsday.

The first factor was already shown, in the picture above, when Jonathan Kent had the heart attack and his spirit was able to reach Kal spirit and help him return to his body.

But ultimately it was thanks to the Eradicator he was able to come back to life.

But don't take my word for it. Here's some show and tell:

Hope this puts a end to any debate.

He died, period!

@trueking95: he was declared dead by medical professionals, so technically yes.

@heavenlydarkdragon: No, if anything, this proves he didn't die. He would have, sure, but he didn't.

@spiderfan130666:

He did and he didn't? What kind of logic is that?

The Eradicator is by far the safest source. For all we know, what Jonathan Kent saw after his heart attack, was pure fantasy.

Even though the Eradicator explanation on how Superman was able to be brought back to life, does and doesn't make sense.

He basically said that due to solar energy of Earth yellow sun, even after the physical death, Superman body still kept on absorbing solar energy to try and prevent the physical death of the body. But when the Eradicator took the body to the Fortress, he hinted on that the process had already stopped. Because he clearly states that the huge supply of solar energy stored in the body had basically been totally drained due to his fight with Doomsday.

There's also some extra piece of information. When the Cadmus Project steals Superman in order to study it in order to be able to unlock its secrets and be able to clone the body. But while in their possession we see that the Cadmus scientists are trying to decode Superman kryptonian DNA directly by examining the body, because they say they can't extract any blood samples from the body because it's still indestructible. Which is in a way another contradiction.

And when I say contradiction, I'm referring to the idea that the powers of a kryptonian comes from their physiology, more precisely their DNA code. If it was so, then after physical death all power should be gone. How can the body be doing physical processes if it's death. And the answer is that it can't.

There was a story made sometime before the Flashpoint with the Doom Patrol, where the character The Chief, has a kryptonian prisoner he obtained during the New Krypton story arc, and he was trying to determine how a kryptonian got his powers. And after doing a live autopsy on a kryptonian placed in a chemical induced coma, and actually opening him up. The AI examining the body, determined that kryptonians had no organs that are responsible for those powers, and even the kryptonian DNA, although more complex than the human DNA it still wasn't complex enough to explain for the powers a kryptonian gained when exposed to the energy of a yellow sun.

And so The Chief came to the conclusion (one I had theorized almost 10 years before) that what gave a kryptonian their powers was the atomic composition of their bodies. Something the AI confirmed. When The Chief did a type of matter transfer to his own body to match that of the kryptonians he gained all the powers kryptonians gain.

Either way. If we remove what we know simply can't be, and what can be placed a lot of question marks. If we have a logical explanation, that beats all the others then that explanation is the correct one. In this case the Eradicator was the one we should really acknowledge as the one providing the accurate information.

It's like looking at how DC says Superman powers work and the inconsistencies between what they say it's and what is showned.

For example. When New 52 Superman, did a transition between yellow sunlight to red sunlight he was able to maintain his powers. He simply wasn't able to recharge them. So the more he used them the weaker he got. But now we look at Rebirth Superman, that's basically the pre-New52 version (or so Dan Jurgens said so) and in last week, in Action Comics Superman was again shown losing almost immediately all of his powers when he and Lex were teleported to a solar system with a red sun. Which looking at the whole solar battery BS, the New52 version made sense, where basically all the other versions make no sense.

I know a lot of readers don't ask any questions, they don't question anything. They read it and accept it. The writers could say kryptonian powers came from dreams and wishes and would accept that unconditionally. I'm not that type of reader. When there's a unknown factor, like magic or extradimensional energies, we simply can't say that something can or can't be. We got to take it as its given. Take it on faith. Accept. But we can still question the feats if for example one's powers are based purely on for example speed. We can't question the power source but we can question the feats. With Superman you can debunk almost everything about him. What fuels his powers and how they work.

Why didn't you like it?

@heavenlydarkdragon: Look he nearly died, but he didn't really. He was entering braindeath, but got pulled out, just at the last minute.

And I didn't say "He did and he didn't" you idiot. I said "WOULD HAVE" which does not translate to "did"

Your post all but confirms that he wasn't truly dead, not dead like us. Because he's not like us. For him, death is a much longer process that he could not complete. And why are you bitching about this like it's crazy when it would, in fact be crazier that he came back from the dead???

That said, you can say he's dead, and many will agree with you.

@spiderfan130666:

The only idiot I see here is you.

You have zero evidence of your insane allegations, and you keep on insisting like a dog chasing a bone.

At best you can say that Superman physiology delayed his body deterioration giving enough time for the Eradicator to act.

Jonathan Kent visions were actually delusions. Because as a another reader pointed it out to me on another site, the events in which the Eradicator retrieves the body and takes it to the Fortress, all happened before Johnathan Kent heart attack.

Which I went back and re-read that entire part once again. The Eradicator said Superman died. Even the robots in the Fortress confirm this. And they were the top authority in kryptonian physiology.

And did you placed any attention to that detail... NO. Dr Ocult said some ambiguous stuff and that's all you see.

@heavenlydarkdragon: NO. Dr Ocult said some ambiguous stuff and that's all you see.

That's all I need, IDIOT. I don't give a sh*** what the Eradicator said. Dr Occult is more renowned in matters of life and death. Superman might have been dead in a sense, but not FULLY dead. That's all I'm saying. Not dead like us.

And what's more, while you ramble on about my so-called insane allegations, you forget the one obvious thing that proves he wasn't dead. While in the coma, he was still growing hair! That's why it was long when he finally woke up. He wasn't truly dead, just in a coma. Eventually, he would have died, but the bottom line is, he didn't fully cross over. Unless you can can provide me with a scan of Superman and the embodiment of Death together, I will not be convinced by your ravings.

This is what happens when people that didn't even bothered to read the freaking comics, talk out of their asses.

Go back and read it, and present me a ounce of evidence Superman was in a coma. Go on, I dare you. The moment you do I'll bombard you with scans that prove exactly the opposite. How he died, everyone and everything that said that he died. And maybe then, you'll learn something.

As for his hair genius. Superman spent along time in the Regeneration Matrix. He was indeed in a coma, but only after the Eradicator, removed his body from his tomb and combined his powers with the Regeneration Matrix to revive Superman. Before that when the body had been stolen by the Cadmus Project, the hair was normal size.

Next you're gonna tell Superboy aka Kon-El also didn't died at the hands of Superboy-Prime. No. He was in a coma, seeing he was revived centuries after his death, also using a Regeneration Matrix.

Yes.

Ok, I don't mean to come off as a dick, but why is this even a question and why are you people even arguing over this? There is plenty of evidence within the comics themselves that clearly say Superman died. He flat out died and he was dead and not in a coma.

In the cartoon movie "Superman: Doomsday", Superman was, indeed, in a coma and didn't actually die.

However, in the comics, Superman DID actually die. In Superman #82 the Eradicator confirms that Superman died. Superman even asks if he was in some kind of coma, but the Eradicator says no and that Kal did, in fact, die.

And the Eradicator doesn't strike me as the lying type. If he says Superman died, then Superman died. And we're talking about a machine that has existed for over 100,000 years and knows everything there is to know about Kryptonian biology.

But don't take it from me, I'll let the scans do the rest of the talking.

Superman died. Case closed.

@knight101:

That he died I have no question about that. What some people use and abuse is what Dr Ocult said and showed Superman and Lois.

He shows Clark and Lois that Superman actually died during his fight with Doomsday, but he also shows why the Eradicator wasn't able to possess Superman body.

That the until then vision/dream of Jonathan Kent, about him helping Superman soul return to the land of the living, actually did happened. So some Superman fans use that as an excuse to say Superman had to be alive.

But they also dismiss what Dr Ocult says afterwards. That if the Eradicator hadn't come, removed Superman body from the tomb and had revive his body, then Superman would've stayed dead.

In fact Dr Ocult appears exactly in the moment when Lois is questioning the fact that if Superman really died. She says something like "If something like this happens again, all you'll need is sunlight and your body will naturally recover." and that's when Dr Ocult appears and says "Oh. Superman can die alright. It's only more difficult to keep him dead. But eventually even Superman will die for good."

And thus he goes on to show all the key factors that lead to Superman being able to return to life. And he ends up by saying to them, that they should enjoy each moment together because if Superman was to die again, he'd stay dead this time around. Seeing that some of the key factors were no longer available. With this he was referring to the fact the Eradicator was presumably dead and the kryptonian technology had all been destroyed when the Eradicator destroyed the Fortress he himself had built for Superman, in order for him to recover in time to help Superman facing Cyborg Superman.

So yes. There's no real debate. Superman died. Period! But to some people for whatever reason that eludes me, the very idea of Superman dying seems to reduce his superness.

@heavenlydarkdragon: Good points.

I think it's also possible that the Animated film Superman/Doomsday (where Superman was in a coma and didn't actually die) could also be considered as a factor that makes a lot of fans think that Superman didn't die after all. It's easy for our memories of events to be mixed up and confused. ^_^

No. It should of.