Did John Byrne depower Superman too much during his run?

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#1 Posted by DaAwesome2 (277 posts) - - Show Bio

Byrne's Superman was probably the weakest ever. But do you think he went too far with it?

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#2 Posted by slade_wilson (776 posts) - - Show Bio

Well when Superman was first introduced, he couldn't even fly, so..... But really, Byrne did this to make Superman less god-like. The whole point of the Man of Steel run was to reboot the mythos. Superman's greatest flaw has always been his insane powers.

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#3 Posted by DaAwesome2 (277 posts) - - Show Bio

@slade_wilson:

Oh, he needed to be depowered. I agree. There was no logical reason why battles with Superman fighting anyone close to his power level didn't level cities if not planets.

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#4 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Makes more sense to reduce Superman powers back to the 1938 levels when Superman could not even fly so can't go to Pluto or other unbelievable distances like other solar systems. Just allow the cosmic super heroes to be more powerful than Superman so Superman can have more believable power levels on earth similar to Spider Man. In Marvel, most of the cosmic super heroes are more powerful than Spider Man. The John Byrne Superman was still more powerful than the 1938 Superman who could not fly. At first, Superman needed an oxygen tank just to go to space which did look ridiculous since Superman should have kryptonian technology to have space ships or space warps like how the New Gods use mother box to open boom tubes.

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#5 Posted by mk111 (3148 posts) - - Show Bio

Depowered, sure.

But losing his flight? Thats going too far, IMO.

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#6 Posted by muhabba (377 posts) - - Show Bio

It depends on what you think "to far" is. Superboy Prime was of the same power level of Superman before the Byrne reboot. so you would have to use that for comparison. Superboy Prime and push planets around, Superman lifts something like 100 tons. Superboy Prime can punch through reality, Superman punches really hard... so on and so forth. So what do you think was to far?

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#7 Posted by ThanosIsMad (2448 posts) - - Show Bio

Byrne's Superman lifted a pyramid.

So no, Superman was plenty strong back then.

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#8 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

When John Byrne started, many people did complain about Superman having a hard time lifting various things. Most people got the impression that Superman could not move the moon or earth anymore. When Grant Morrison did his JLA, that was when I first noticed that Superman could move the moon or earth again.

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#9 Posted by DaAwesome2 (277 posts) - - Show Bio

@muhabba:

Well, Byrne's Superman wouldn't even be able to beat Hulk. He would probably even lose to Rulk. I honestly think he would even have a tough go at it against Ben Grimm. Granted, I think he would beat Benjy if he went all out.

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#10 Edited by TheHulk (848 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk understand why. I mean, Superman too overpowered. Nothing challenge to him, which would make his comics less exciting. Hulk have more exciting adventures.

Let's hope Man of Steel changes things. So, Hulk think it was good idea.

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#11 Posted by spinningbirdcake (1432 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheHulk said:

Hulk understand why. I mean, Superman too overpowered. Nothing challenge to him, which would make his comics less exciting. Hulk have more exciting adventures.

Let's hope Man of Steel changes things. So, Hulk think it was good idea.

Yeah I can understand why you'd feel that way. I mean who can forget this:

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#12 Posted by ssejllenrad (13110 posts) - - Show Bio

Byrne's Superman was depowered but still not as depowered as Bruce Timm's take on Supes back when he was first introduced in the DCAU/

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#13 Posted by AtPhantom (14434 posts) - - Show Bio

I've said this before and I'll say it again, relative power levels are the least important thing about Superman. I mean seriously, does it matter whether he can lift a pyramid or a planet in any situation other than for people in battle forums to be able to say 'My guy can do something Hulk and Thor can't. Niener niener nienier!!!"?

The same but opposite is true for the 'overpowered' argument. No matter his contemporary power level he will always be the most physically powerful hero on the planet and his enemies will always scale up or down relative to him, thus making sure they always present a challenge. And so will Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Mongul, Martian Manhunter and any other superhero in his general league. Superman literally determines the power scale of DCU, and within that scale he will always be just as powerful as he should be.

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#14 Posted by ssejllenrad (13110 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

I've said this before and I'll say it again, relative power levels are the least important thing about Superman. I mean seriously, does it matter whether he can lift a pyramid or a planet in any situation other than for people in battle forums to be able to say 'My guy can do something Hulk and Thor can't. Niener niener nienier!!!"?

The same but opposite is true for the 'overpowered' argument. No matter his contemporary power level he will always be the most physically powerful hero on the planet and his enemies will always scale up or down relative to him, thus making sure they always present a challenge. And so will Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Mongul, Martian Manhunter and any other superhero in his general league. Superman literally determines the power scale of DCU, and within that scale he will always be just as powerful as he should be.

/Thread

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#15 Posted by winters (95 posts) - - Show Bio

He beat the hell out of the professor hulk. He held his own with the phantom zone villians. He even knocked Darkseid on his ass. Byrnes superman was more human, but he was no slouch in the power department.

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#16 Edited by DieHard200904 (575 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say no. His starting power levels were okay, and post-crisis Superman got progressively more powerful leading up to the reboot.

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#17 Posted by lvenger (32205 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes but in Bryne's defense there was a need to control what Superman was capable of with the extreme power and plot device performances Superman was capable of in the Silver Age and Bronze Age.

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#18 Posted by christianrapper (5245 posts) - - Show Bio

i still don't get the superman is op argument. no one says that about martian manhunter who is strong and has insane telepathic powers.

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#19 Posted by kiba (1439 posts) - - Show Bio

@christianrapper: I say that about MM. I love the guy but... damn that's to much

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#20 Posted by Nick1994 (1109 posts) - - Show Bio

Byrne's Superman lifted a pyramid.

So no, Superman was plenty strong back then.

What comic was that in if you don't mind me asking?

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#21 Posted by SuperAbrasax (90 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, and in fact it was a retconn of Crisis (Superman was supposed to be the one who survived and remembered PC universe). But even so, Byrne's Superman was still pretty ridiculously powerful.

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#22 Posted by Knight101 (276 posts) - - Show Bio

Byrne may have de-powered him a tad too much. But other than that, I don't think it was too far. If anything, I wish he was still at that level. But then Jeph Loeb had to get his hands on Superman.

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#23 Posted by invain (4459 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman being powerful has never had anything to do with why I liked him as a character. Byrne's Superman was great imo.

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