The Doomsday one is from Superman #175 - Joker: Last Laugh: Doomsday Rex and the Mongul one is Superman #170 - Beware of Superdog I believe.

@lvenger: Thanks man.

And it's nice to see that they're both from Loeb's run, should be a fun read :)

@2cool4fun: Before he went off the deep end, Loeb was still a pretty fun writer in the late 90s-early 2000s.

Great then I'll just read Saga and East of West since women are so sh*t everywhere in the comic world.

i woudlnt say her fan base has the existential dread. I'd say foamborn and one other user are the ones always whining and that starts arguments amongst themselves(the fanbase) and thats what makes them look bad. "All it takes is a few"

@foamborn: How are they so s$#t?

Did I even imply they were?

Never mind, I've got a chip on my shoulder.

In the original TV series with George Reeves fron the 1950s supermen vibrates his molecular structure fast enough to allow him to pass through a solid wall. Episode number 95 The Mysterious Cube.

Do you know that Superman's got super-speed even before the flash,right?

Yes but having superspeed and being almost as fast as the Flash are two enormously different concepts. Superman can still be exceptionally quick without robbing the Flash of his uniqueness, and for no good reason.

Yes, Superman can obviously vibrate through things.

Ok,so you do know that. However being able to phase (and this goes just for pre-52 superman and not for his new-52 version) doesn't mean that he is as fast as the flash:if the Barry taps into the speed force he becomes way faster than Clark and he could use many different abilities that Superman doesn't have, like the speed steal or lending his speed or god knows what else.

Yes

No, ad least not New-52 Superman.

@stephens2177: "When will you all learn that new 52 superman can do whatever he wants,it doesn't matter if you want him to are not,he is the man who does the imaginable."

DUDE I am so drawing up a superhero named "Mr. Imaginable" the superhero who does exactly what you think he will do.

Let’s see.

Silver Age Superman – yes, he could (though right question will be – what he wasn’t capable of doing).

Pre-New-52 Superman – he as well can vibrate through solid matter.

Lois and Clark’ Superman – once demonstrated similar ability.

New-52 Superman – he hadn’t done any phasing yet, but comparing his and Pre-New-52 Superman’ speed feats, that should be well within his capabilities.

Barry can't do any of those things, you are talking about Wally West who controls kinetic energy.

@heavenlydarkdragon said:

@sirneko:

Sorry but you're mistaken.

All speedsters connected to the Speed Force can train to achieve light speed in a manner of seconds, but that doesn't mean they can go massively faster than light. Has I stated before, breaking the light speed barrier to speedsters connected to the SF usually means death.

It's why they call it Terminal Velocity.

And although in the past it meant that the speedster became part of SF itself, later it was introduced the one they called the Black Flash. An entity at the service of the SF that hunted down and killed all speedsters that broke into the Terminal Velocity.

Look it up on the web, and you'll see.

Look what on the web? I read the comics, they went past light speed all the time. Wally already stated that in 2 steps he can run faster than Tachyon particles which move faster than speed of light.

Also there is when he fought Zoom and covered every inch of the world in less than a second which is massively faster than light.

@sirneko:

And of course you're sources are from the pre-N52.

Way back to before the Infinite Crisis. Do I have to point out how crazy things were back then.

And the fact remains that you're just focusing on a one time occasion, and not the rule.

By the same account I could give you dozens of examples that prove my point. But I'm not even go into this anymore. The fact that you're putting aside facts like the terminal velocity and the black Flash, shows you're only gonna see what you want to see.

So I'm not wasting more of my time with this.

I bet I could give you more examples of Wally going past Light speed than you can show that he can't as The Flash. Why does it matter where my sources are from, New 52 Barry Allen has gone past light speed too.

@sirneko:

But don't you see. That's not even the point.

I know that Barry Allen and Wally West, also many others speedsters connected to the SF, can surpass the speed of light. The problem was when you said, they can massively surpass the speed of light. Has soon has they surpass the speed of light barrier, they enter the speed force. There's no way around it.

That's how all the ones that carried the name Flash, were/are able to move through time, universes and even dimensions.

But lets say, the Flash going from the Earth to another solar system, another galaxy or move from one planet to another in our solar system, that on the other hand is never shown. Why?! Is it because they can't fly? That wouldn't exactly be a problem seeing that if they traveled inside the SF they wouldn't be subjected to the rigors of space travel, but then again the Flashes, none of them was ever seen operating outside of our planet. They either go to different timelines, universes or even dimensions, but never to other planets.

And this is my point. They can surpass the speed of light, entering the SF has they do so, but after that the speedster in question is limited to which extent he or she can control and navigate through the SF. They don't go dozens, hundreds, thousands or millions or times faster than light. They can't because has they surpass the speed of light they immediately enter the Speed Force.

@heavenlydarkdragon: That Speed Force thing was a problem to Flashes, but that problem was solved pretty quickly. I think you write this because you have only seen Justice League Unlimited animated series. Where Wally got trapped into Speed Force after reaching speed of light.

Wally can run in Speed of Light as he wants, there are scans where he casually goes faster than light without any problems. Also Wally West as The Flash could fly, he ran across the Galaxy, out ran The Big Bang.

Here a thread full of people showing Wally moving faster than light without Speed Force problems in ease.

http://www.comicvine.com/wally-west/4005-23879/forums/wally-wests-top-speed-best-feats-598821/

this is one of most forgotten abilities of Superman