I don't know what the big deal about Superman is...I think he's pretty boring to be honest. He's just too powerful and his only weaknesses are Kryptonite and his friendships, which of course the super-villians constantly take advantage of. He can do practically anything and always acts perfectly ethical and moral, no screw ups. Some great writers have salvaged this character over the years like Kurt Busiek, Frank Miller, and others. But a great writer can take almost any character or comic and make it enjoyable. Being the world's most famous and loved superhero, Superman obviously has some aspects we all enjoy but overall I've always found him kind of boring as a character.
Post Edited:2007-01-09 13:07:23

He was the first big Superhero from what I understand and helped adults and kids alike keep thier minds off the wars somewhat. He stood for what the USA used be to all about, I understand where people come from with Superman but could not dissagree more with what he is/was.

Does anyone really want to go back to a time where kids dropped out of school so they could feed thier family(I know that still happens now but not as much), woman had no real rights, rascist ruled the roost and Anti-gay was the way to go. I sure in the hell don't and because that's what Superman reminds me of and what I think he partly stands for I don't really enjoy him.

I know they reinvent him etc.. but hes has still alot of the same morals and looks, I mean if they had a superhero from the 1940/1950s that was in black face but now they updated it,it still would remind people. I guess.

Thats it.
Post Edited:2007-01-09 13:15:36

As I've said before I like that he's a one sided character because it makes him awesome as a pair up character in other heros or team books. Superman is horrible on his own, but throw in Batman right beside to react off of his straight line thinking and you've got an interesting story.

Characters get used like this all the time. Is there really a need for Hawkman other then for him to be stubborn and conservative? Again, boring on his own, but put him next to Green Arrow and you've got a great story.

Yeah Superman is a good character but not the easiest to write for. Some writers are good at "humanizing" him. I still read the comics. They're good but not necessarily great. Superman/Batman was something for a while. Now I'm not so sure how it'll be.

Raif,you must be high if you think that Superman, a character created by two Jewish men whos family had immigrated here, represents an era of racism and bigotry. And even if some writers back then wrote him with some sort of bias (and also wrote Batman with the same, I might add), times are different now. He stands for truth, justice, and freedom. Morals and values that ANYBODY would be proud to represent.

And for God's sake, Superman is NOT a one-sided character. This is especially strange coming from fans of Batman, a character who you know will always be sad, angry, and paranoid. With that sort of personality trait to a character, writers ALWAYS fall back on it. "Oh, I'm sad because of so-and-so." With a character like Supes, there's no trait like that to fall back on, so you get stories that bring about all different variety of new story dynamics. It isn't about his physical strength, or who he can beat, it's about his strength of character. It's about a guy who has absolute power and manages not to be absolutely corrupt. Who cares about physical struggles? "Oh, this guy is cooler because he can only lift a little bit, but that guy is too powerful!" With a character like Batman, sure he's weaker than Superman, but he's this distant, coldhearted character. I can't relate to that. What I CAN relate to is a guy like Clark Kent. He's a guy who was raised a back-end small-town, and has a regular job. He's just this regular guy, with no problems involving insanity, and that to me makes him magnitudes more human than Batman. Here's a guy who is supposedly powerless, but is one of the smartest people on Earth, can bench press 800lbs, and has mastered 27 Martial Arts. Can any of you relate to that? I can't. I'm the regular guy with a regular job, and not a depressed billionare playboy who can do whatever he wants.

It isn't about POWERS.

The thing is, is that about 75% of comic fans and the casual people now AREN'T Superman fans. I rarely meet any. Everybody thinks he's a goody-two-shoes, or a jerk (what's funny is that he's like, the nicest guy in DC), or boring, or whatever. Everybody wants angst instead of happiness. Darkness instead of light.
Post Edited:2007-01-09 21:19:38

Heh heh...yeah, Superman is SO the everyman. He never uses his super powers to speed through work that would take an ordinary person days. He never uses his powers to allow him access to stories he couldn't normally get. He never abuses his "regular job".

I mean, he NEEDS it! He's got to eat! Er, well, no. He needs to keep a roof over his head! Oh, no, he's got a super fortress. Well, he must need to keep a job to...to...

...buy more suits and glasses?

Superman is NOT the everyman. He is a near omnipotent alien who pretends to be human in order to fit in. He has spent his entire life learning how to lie and hide who he is. You relate to that?

Dude, you could put any character into a context like that. Oh sure, he COULD just be all "near omnipotent" all the time and not pretend to be human, but then he'd be just like Sentry, or Hyperion. He's a guy who wants to be with the human people he's come to love, so he doesn't go sit on some high-horse in his Fortress all the time.

And I don't know where you're getting that Supes doesn't need to eat.

And what I was saying that I relate to was NOT the physical aspect, but the mind-set in which Superman is in. He was raised without his powers, you realize that, right? What I relate to is the nice guy with morals and an all around good attitude.

OYL Superman developed his abilities at about age 15.

I think. I'm not sure if it was addressed in the whole 52/Donna Troy thing.
Post Edited:2007-01-09 21:48:01

Raised without his powers? Which continuity are you using? Silver Age Superman had them all along, and became Superboy at a very early age. This is Earth-One continuity, mind you, which is what the current Superman is.

I was not saying Super-man was racist(mostly from a skin tone point.) I am saying he was the hero of the era where that was king. It was all about being a mans man etc.. Most of the comics if not all back were like that but Super-man was king of the pack. I mean look at what he hide him self behind, a nerdy,shy,kiss ass that could not talk well around girls. Because that was the thing that was bad to be, no one wanted to be like that and no one would guess he would be super man if he acted like that.

Raif says:

"I was not saying Super-man was racist(mostly from a skin tone point.) I am saying he was the hero of the era where that was king. It was all about being a mans man etc.. Most of the comics if not all back were like that but Super-man was king of the pack. I mean look at what he hide him self behind, a nerdy,shy,kiss ass that could not talk well around girls. Because that was the thing that was bad to be, no one wanted to be like that and no one would guess he would be super man if he acted like that."

I know you didn't say he was racist. You said, and are still saying that he represented that era, and was "king of the pack", which is completely baseless. ALL comics back then reflected the times, Superman no more than anyone else. He doesn't hide behind Clark Kent, Clark is who he IS, hiding behind Superman, the leader and rolemodel for superheroes since his creation. Hell, he even says that Superman is just his mask.

You know, I don't mean to argue, or be a jerk or anything, it's just that over a long time I've grown to be a fan of different characters than it seems everybody else has. Almost everywhere I go, people love Batman or whoever, and I catch flak for liking Supes. That's why I end up getting so defensive about him.

No hard feelings, eh? =D

ScoodleDaddle says:

(what's funny is that he's like, the nicest guy in DC)

I present Exhibit A: http://www.superdickery.com/

I rest my case...

ScoodleDaddle says:

"You know, I don't mean to argue, or be a jerk or anything, it's just that over a long time I've grown to be a fan of different characters than it seems everybody else has. Almost everywhere I go, people love Batman or whoever, and I catch flak for liking Supes. That's why I end up getting so defensive about him.No hard feelings, eh? =D"

Not saying its the same but I deal with it all the time becasuse of alot of issues,

1. I talk(or type) about I think.

2. I only been into comics deeply for about a year and I love the Ultimate marvel

3. Okay if you think liking Super-man is hard try liking a brand new person who is not even on a major team and happens to be gay (Wiccan). Lol

No hard feels, like I said I only know basic stuff about Superman and in till I get a diffrent idea I still won't like him and I still think I'm right.
Post Edited:2007-01-10 03:48:21

Raif says:

"ScoodleDaddle says:

"You know, I don't mean to argue, or be a jerk or anything, it's just that over a long time I've grown to be a fan of different characters than it seems everybody else has. Almost everywhere I go, people love Batman or whoever, and I catch flak for liking Supes. That's why I end up getting so defensive about him.No hard feelings, eh? =D"

Not saying its the same but I deal with it all the time becasuse of alot of issues,

1. I talk(or type) about I think.

2. I only been into comics deeply for about a year and I love the Ultimate marvel

3. Okay if you think liking Super-man is hard try liking a brand new person who is not even on a major team and happens to be gay (Wiccan). Lol

No hard feels, like I said I only know basic stuff about Superman and in till I get a diffrent idea I still won't like him and I still think I'm right.
Post Edited:2007-01-10 03:48:21"

Well, the problem is that you admittedly don't know anything about him and still think you're in the right. I mean, I don't know a whole lot about Wiccan, so I'm not going to go around assuming all sorts of stuff about him.

Eh it would not bug me if you knew some about Wiccan and said stuff I dissagree with, I seen enuff TV verions of Superman and read about 30 or so comics and have talked to people that know more so I think I know enuff to make a basic idea of what I think of him, If I change my mind later when/if I find out more then so be it.

I'm not saying what your opinion is, but what you seem to think the facts are. From what you've talked about, it's just obvious to me that you simply don't know anything of substance when it comes to Superman.

Post Deleted.

ScoodleDaddle, I couldn't agree more. People love Superman (and people DO love Superman) because he represents those traditional ideals. It's fine to disagree with those things, but the masses love him because he represents the everyman so uniquely. Sometimes I hear someone claim to like Batman more than Superman. Truth is, Superman IS Superman. He pretends to be Clark Kent. Batman is Bruce Wayne. He PRETENDS to be Batman. I like the fresh, noble uniqueness that is Superman. And other super heroes agree. Read some team ups, read some OMAC, read some Identity Crisis. Read what other characters think about Superman. When he arrives, he's the end all, be all. Period. And yet he doesn't abuse that fact.

Finally. I love Superman simply because if I knew the guy in real life, I would have volumes of respect for him.

I gotta say i hated and to some extent still do hate Superman with a vengance. Felt he was just too perfect to the point he seemed pointless, i mean how can you long out a comic with a dude that can fly faster than light and move planets? And how do you justify him having as HUMAN a villain as Lex Luthor? Thats seems SO stupid to me. And for all his mighty power why is it not a Utopia? I believe, for most of what they write he is too overpowered. His comics should be all of a front page and one panel [i.e Metallo escapes OH supes slapped him and put him back in jail the end.YAY]. He has seemed never to fail and thus makes comics predictable, whats the point if at the end you know EVERY SINGLE thing is gonna be fine cause the old man of steel made the last 20 odd pages of mayhem irrelevant with his super-superness? Most versions of Superman have just been to annoying but i LOVE absolutely LOVE All-Star, Birth Right and many ElseWorlds incarnations the recent Action Comics since Up-Up-and Away have also been good. Which leads me to belive the writing is what matters. If writers can humanise him[actually make him question things rather than being right because he is Superman] and give him CREDIBLE threats that he couldnt just slap and its over with then he is actually worth it. So yeah i am NOW a fan and i will give him his dues but i am in no way one of these Super-fan-fan-boy retards, who love him more than their mothers and think its heresy not to like him.

I wouldn't say I find anything to be heresy, or love him more than my mother, but I'm certainly happy that you can see fit to refer to anybody you want as a "retard". That's real nice.

Here's the thing though. Superman's appeal has never been about the fact that he's strong or fast or what have you, it's about the kind of man that he is. I don't think I've EVER read a Superman comic in recent history where he's just had to fight Metallo and that's it.

Superman the movie...Lois Lane dies in that car because of the earth quake and he goes and flies around the earth until time goes backwards in order to save her life.

When I saw that I remember thinking, "What's the point of anything then....Superman can just fix everything and go back in time...whatever you need, he'll get it done."

It's true, a good writer can take any character and make him worth reading about. For this reason I give kudos to all the writers who have made Superman worth reading...cause it sure ain't Supes that draws me to the title.