Striker is (spoilers)!!!

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Cafeterialoca

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#1  Edited By Cafeterialoca

Interesting article.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=35708

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Chaos Burn

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#2  Edited By Chaos Burn
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dernman

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#3  Edited By dernman

Karolina Dean is going to be in Avengers Academy? What about the Runaways?  It must be where she just shows up for a day training.

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#4  Edited By dernman
@Chaos Burn said:

whilst characters should be allowed to

.... this seems like a shameless reader grab

I'm concerned how this will effect his character. I liked him being a d****bag. Now all it was him covering up.
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vance_astro

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#5  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator

The article gives this book too much credit. None of the characters in Avengers Academy is original.There's a gay member now? I seem to recall another Young Avengers team that has two gay members....Oh yea, THE YOUNG AVENGERS. I hope Striker dies two issues later and we never see him again. I'm tired of all these recycled storylines. 

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dernman

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#6  Edited By dernman
@Vance Astro: I'm not sure I read it right because I was skimming but didn't he say he didn't set out to make him gay but then later say in early issues there were hints.
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#7  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@Dernman said:
@Vance Astro: I'm not sure I read it right because I was skimming but didn't he say he didn't set out to make him gay but then later say in early issues there were hints.
Yea...but my beef with it, is why there has to be a big announcement every time we find out some character is gay? Who cares? (No Disrespect to the OP)
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#8  Edited By ReVamp

@Vance Astro said:

@Dernman said:
@Vance Astro: I'm not sure I read it right because I was skimming but didn't he say he didn't set out to make him gay but then later say in early issues there were hints.
Yea...but my beef with it, is why there has to be a big announcement every time we find out some character is gay? Who cares? (No Disrespect to the OP)

Real Talk. I hated it when they make such a big deal of character developments like this just to grab sales.

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#9  Edited By dernman
@Vance Astro: I'm with you on that.
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#10  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@ReVamp said:

Real Talk. I hated it when they make such a big deal of character developments like this just to grab sales.

If they want to make him gay that's fine with me but it just seems like a recycled concept and to promote some sort of equality that isn't actually present in Marvel comics. All of the most popular characters in comics are white heterosexual males (even Superman). Even popular female characters that have some sort of popularity (Wonder Woman,Supergirl,Batgirl,Buffy,Vampirella,Red Sonja,Witchblade etc.) aren't at all comparable to the level of popularity and recognition that white male heroes have. So I'm not understanding why we pat companies on the back every time they make a gay character when they've been making female and minority characters for years and they can't even do that right.
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#11  Edited By ReVamp

@Vance Astro said:

@ReVamp said:

Real Talk. I hated it when they make such a big deal of character developments like this just to grab sales.

If they want to make him gay that's fine with me but it just seems like a recycled concept and to promote some sort of equality that isn't actually present in Marvel comics. All of the most popular characters in comics are white heterosexual males (even Superman). Even popular female characters that have some sort of popularity (Wonder Woman,Supergirl,Batgirl,Buffy,Vampirella,Red Sonja,Witchblade etc.) aren't at all comparable to the level of popularity and recognition that white male heroes have. So I'm not understanding why we pat companies on the back every time they make a gay character when they've been making female and minority characters for years and they can't even do that right.

Preaching to the pope. I'm fine with Striker being Gay by the way. More than fine, I think its a nice move and if its like everyone's been telling me then they did it rightly. Now I haven't read the article but I think that there's a difference between Marvel executing a concept that isn't really ever going to get anywhere and them marketing it to increase sales.

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#12  Edited By Mercy_
@Vance Astro
@ReVamp said:

Real Talk. I hated it when they make such a big deal of character developments like this just to grab sales.

If they want to make him gay that's fine with me but it just seems like a recycled concept and to promote some sort of equality that isn't actually present in Marvel comics. All of the most popular characters in comics are white heterosexual males (even Superman). Even popular female characters that have some sort of popularity (Wonder Woman,Supergirl,Batgirl,Buffy,Vampirella,Red Sonja,Witchblade etc.) aren't at all comparable to the level of popularity and recognition that white male heroes have. So I'm not understanding why we pat companies on the back every time they make a gay character when they've been making female and minority characters for years and they can't even do that right.
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vance_astro

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#13  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@ReVamp said:

Preaching to the pope. I'm fine with Striker being Gay by the way. More than fine, I think its a nice move and if its like everyone's been telling me then they did it rightly. Now I haven't read the article but I think that there's a difference between Marvel executing a concept that isn't really ever going to get anywhere and them marketing it to increase sales.

Is Avengers Academy not selling?
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Superguy0009e

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#14  Edited By Superguy0009e

this is really a marvel thing, turning teen heroes gay, or just any hero. please, unless it makes sense or goes with the character, please stop trying to "fit in" by turning characters gay

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#15  Edited By ReVamp

@Vance Astro: Wouldn't know, but I'm not a fan of the book. Personally I think that many of the characters are horrible, though this change in cast is helping. I guess the good part of a new cast is that you can take certain liberties with them that you wouldn't otherwise be able to.

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#16  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@Superguy0009e said:

this is really a marvel thing, turning teen heroes gay, or just any hero. please, unless it makes sense or goes with the character, please stop trying to "fit in" by turning characters gay

1.What characters did Marvel "turn" gay? 
2.Striker was already gay. He just finally "came out".
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#17  Edited By KainScion

maybe marvel thinks gay sells. or maybe this is a response to that bunker guy in teen titans that's been also announced to be gay. "we got a gay teen superhero too. look. see?? buy my comic."

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#18  Edited By dernman
@Vance Astro: Rictor or Shatterstar I forget but the guy who first wrote the character said something to that effect IIRC.
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Cafeterialoca

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#19  Edited By Cafeterialoca

@Chaos Burn: I don't think Gage would rely on that. He's a competent writer.

@Dernman: She's not joining. She and the other Runaways are going to have a face off in issues 27 and 28

@Vance Astro: Disagree. Striker's character was established before he came out as gay. Wiccan and Hulkling whole characters are that they are gay. Seriously, take away that fact, and you realize those two are kinda boring.

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#20  Edited By Cafeterialoca

@Vance Astro said:

Is Avengers Academy not selling?

Avengers Academy has had low sales, BUT they have been consistent, which is the same reason why X-Factor is still going. AA has amazing word of mouth and devoted fans who are constantly spreading the word about this book. (like me!)

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#21  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@Cafeterialoca said:

@Vance Astro: Disagree. Striker's character was established before he came out as gay. Wiccan and Hulkling whole characters are that they are gay. Seriously, take away that fact, and you realize those two are kinda boring.

Disagree with what? I never said that Striker's character wasn't established before he came out. I'm simply asking..why is a big deal now that he's out? There are gay characters already. It's not like he's the first one. What makes this more significant than any other "coming out"? This is the second gay character announced this year. Also I disagree about Wiccan and Hulkling there is more to them than the fact that they are dating each other especially in Wiccan's case.
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#22  Edited By ReVamp

@Cafeterialoca said:

@Vance Astro: Disagree. Striker's character was established before he came out as gay. Wiccan and Hulkling whole characters are that they are gay. Seriously, take away that fact, and you realize those two are kinda boring.

I'm going to play the troll here for a second and I'm going to say that Hulkling and Wiccan are both much more interesting than Striker. Seriously, I've already spoken on this and I think that half of the cast in this book is horrible.

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#23  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@ReVamp said:

 I think that half of the cast in this book is horrible.

I agree. The only character I was interested in just off of appearance was Finesse until I found out she was just a mixture of Kate Bishop & Echo. 
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#24  Edited By Mutant God

No hes not hes just trying to get closer to Julie

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#25  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@Mutant God said:
No hes not hes just trying to get closer to Julie
That would be an interesting twist.
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Cafeterialoca

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#26  Edited By Cafeterialoca

@Vance Astro said:

Disagree with what? I never said that Striker's character wasn't established before he came out. I'm simply asking..why is a big deal now that he's out? There are gay characters already. It's not like he's the first one. What makes this more significant than any other "coming out"? This is the second gay character announced this year. Also I disagree about Wiccan and Hulkling there is more to them than the fact that they are dating each other especially in Wiccan's case.

Oh, Sorry. But I think that the reason this got released was because of all the fuss over Bunker being released.

@ReVamp: And I disagree. I think a lot of the Young Avengers are kinda overrated. I did enjoy the first 12 issues, but I thought about it and a lot of the Young Avengers never get past some basic quirks. I mean, look how out of nowhere Stature falls in love with Iron Lad. They barely even have more than three conversations before she smooches him.

I'm sorry, but I really feel that the Young Avengers are getting too much love when they're still stuck in their origins.

I agree. The only character I was interested in just off of appearance was Finesse until I found out she was just a mixture of Kate Bishop & Echo.

Again, disagree. Mettle, Hazmat and others I think are evolving pretty nicely.

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#27  Edited By ReVamp

@Mutant God said:

No hes not hes just trying to get closer to Julie

It would be worthy of a ReVamp Approves stamp, but its not true, since if you take a look at the scan it mentions abuse as a child. I don't think he'd go that far.

@Vance Astro said:

I agree. The only character I was interested in just off of appearance was Finesse until I found out she was just a mixture of Kate Bishop & Echo.

Striker, Veil and Finesse are all pretty bad imo. The Dinosaur boy is the best. Hazmat and Mettle are unpolished characters that could evolve into something better, but at the current time aren't worth their salt.

Lightspeed and White Tiger are good adds and if X comes even better.

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#28  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@Cafeterialoca said:

Again, disagree. Mettle, Hazmat and others I think are evolving pretty nicely.

I liked them better when they were called The Thing and Radioactive Man.
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#29  Edited By Cafeterialoca

@ReVamp: Wait, you think Reptil is the best? No offense, but I think both Hazmat and Mettle surpass him pretty greatly. I mean, their relationship alone is probably one of the cutest things about this book.

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#30  Edited By ReVamp

@Cafeterialoca said:

And I disagree. I think a lot of the Young Avengers are kinda overrated. I did enjoy the first 12 issues, but I thought about it and a lot of the Young Avengers never get past some basic quirks. I mean, look how out of nowhere Stature falls in love with Iron Lad. They barely even have more than three conversations before she smooches him.

I'm sorry, but I really feel that the Young Avengers are getting too much love when they're still stuck in their origins.

You've never been a teenager? I mean, its pretty easy to fall in love when you're one, especially when you see someone brave, funny with another bunch of positive qualities. And unfortunately the Young Avengers don't get nearly enough love, they had a 12 issue ongoing that got canceled and a couple of minis. Avengers Academy has more in less time.

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#31  Edited By Mutant God
@ReVamp said:

@Mutant God said:

No hes not hes just trying to get closer to Julie

It would be worthy of a ReVamp Approves stamp, but its not true, since if you take a look at the scan it mentions abuse as a child. I don't think he'd go that far.

Im not saying the abuse is fake Im just saying its Striker (In my opinion an attention whore) were talking about here, and you would be surprise as how far a guy would go to get laid.
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#32  Edited By ReVamp

@Cafeterialoca said:

@ReVamp: Wait, you think Reptil is the best? No offense, but I think both Hazmat and Mettle surpass him pretty greatly. I mean, their relationship alone is probably one of the cutest things about this book.

Reptil has the most potential as a character. Hazmat suffers from a lot of bad character choices and Mettle seems way too cliche. Bear in mind I read perhaps the first 3 or 4 issues and the two most current ones, so I haven't had the opportunity to see all of this development, but you can't say that they're good characters due to such constant development that they get. Where would the Young Avengers be if they got all that development, see what I mean?

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#33  Edited By ReVamp

@Mutant God said:

@ReVamp said:

@Mutant God said:

No hes not hes just trying to get closer to Julie

It would be worthy of a ReVamp Approves stamp, but its not true, since if you take a look at the scan it mentions abuse as a child. I don't think he'd go that far.

Im not saying the abuse is fake Im just saying its Striker (In my opinion an attention whore) were talking about here, and you would be surprise as how far a guy would go to get laid.

I doubt Marvel/Striker would pull that off.

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#34  Edited By Cafeterialoca

@Vance Astro: Every character has been done before. I think Patriot is another Luke Cage for example. All characters evolve into their own elements, or should. The fact that Hazmat, the smallest member of the team is the strongest, and might I add they don't make her a shy wallflower, is pretty unique.

@ReVamp said:

You've never been a teenager? I mean, its pretty easy to fall in love when you're one, especially when you see someone brave, funny with another bunch of positive qualities. And unfortunately the Young Avengers don't get nearly enough love, they had a 12 issue ongoing that got canceled and a couple of minis. Avengers Academy has more in less time.

I've been a teenager, but I never got this "Instant Love" that I think is exaggerated in comics.

Also, YA didn't get canceled, the writer chose to focus on Grey's Anatomy instead.

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#35  Edited By Cafeterialoca

@ReVamp said:

@Cafeterialoca said:

@ReVamp: Wait, you think Reptil is the best? No offense, but I think both Hazmat and Mettle surpass him pretty greatly. I mean, their relationship alone is probably one of the cutest things about this book.

Reptil has the most potential as a character. Hazmat suffers from a lot of bad character choices and Mettle seems way too cliche. Bear in mind I read perhaps the first 3 or 4 issues and the two most current ones, so I haven't had the opportunity to see all of this development, but you can't say that they're good characters due to such constant development that they get. Where would the Young Avengers be if they got all that development, see what I mean?

Reptil has potential, but he's kinda simplistic. If he moved onto to something like Avengers, he'll be another Justice and get quickly forgotten by more colorful personalities.

Hazmat is flawed, but she is interesting for that. She is angry, but we find out in things like issue 10, we find out there's a lot more to her. I thought about it, and almost everything Hazmat does is related to the idea of she's being afraid as being seen as the victim. She's harsh, but she does care about the others. Even willing to sacrifice herself.

Mettle can be seen as the cliche big gentle giant, but he's scared of becoming something more violent. He's scared of becoming a villain, and that's interesing.

I think Young Avengers needs to stop having these 6 issues or more "GRAND EPIC" arcs and actually focus more on the characters. The fact that people love the characters is something they should pounce on more. I just feel their series gets lost with how much epic scale they try to fit in when they should just let the characters develop.

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ReVamp

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#36  Edited By ReVamp

@Cafeterialoca said:

@ReVamp said:

You've never been a teenager? I mean, its pretty easy to fall in love when you're one, especially when you see someone brave, funny with another bunch of positive qualities. And unfortunately the Young Avengers don't get nearly enough love, they had a 12 issue ongoing that got canceled and a couple of minis. Avengers Academy has more in less time.

I've been a teenager, but I never got this "Instant Love" that I think is exaggerated in comics.

Also, YA didn't get canceled, the writer chose to focus on Grey's Anatomy instead.

Its not instant love, its a crush. Infatuation. They weren't at love instantly, they grew into love with each other.

Doesn't matter what happened though, they have less showings per time.

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#37  Edited By ReVamp

@Cafeterialoca: It'd be awesome if we actually had a series to develop these characters though ;P

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#38  Edited By Mutant God
@ReVamp said:

@Mutant God said:

@ReVamp said:

@Mutant God said:

No hes not hes just trying to get closer to Julie

It would be worthy of a ReVamp Approves stamp, but its not true, since if you take a look at the scan it mentions abuse as a child. I don't think he'd go that far.

Im not saying the abuse is fake Im just saying its Striker (In my opinion an attention whore) were talking about here, and you would be surprise as how far a guy would go to get laid.

I doubt Marvel/Striker would pull that off.

I dont know, AA is all about telling the good guys from the bad guys from the just plain low lives
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#39  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@Cafeterialoca said:

@Vance Astro: Every character has been done before. 

Everyone knows this. My point was those characters are poor renditions of other characters. Not so much that they aren't original. Patriot is supposed to be another "Captain America" like his father but he's awful at it. I haven't seen one impressive thing from Patriot the whole time he's existed. Which goes along with the point I was making. I understand that alot of characters aren't original but Patriot,Mettle,Hazmat,etc. are examples of how NOT to do it. 
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#40  Edited By Cafeterialoca

@ReVamp: I know. Again, the YA just need more solid direction.

Also, about the Avengers Academy characters, that made me appreciate them more. All the kids are opposites and are brought together with them.

Reptil wants to be the leader and is worried about the team - Finesse is concerned on how she can improve herself constantly.

Striker is very self serving and wants the attention - Veil is shy and is trying to help the others.

Hazmat is the smallest, angry, and the most powerful in a power perspective - Mettle is the biggest, gentlest (at times) and is strongest physically.

Hazmat is the most cynical - Julie Power is the most optimistic.

Striker comes from an abusive family life - Julie Power has a very great and caring family life.

The next one is Reptil and White Tiger, but we have seen too little of White Tiger to fully understand this opposite yet.

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#41  Edited By Cafeterialoca

@ReVamp: Which is what Children's Crusade SHOULD be doing. But again, it's getting lost in the Epic feel that at most, Wiccan and Stature feeling like they're developing.

@Vance Astro: True, but I still feel that even though they are similar, they are still going about it a different way. You could say X-23 is a female Wolverine, or you could realize that she is becoming her own character. Powersets don't make the character.

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#42  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@Cafeterialoca said:

@ReVamp: I know. Again, the YA just need more solid direction.

They don't have a book....They had two short volumes,an origin line,a team up with the Runaways (also short),and now Children's Crusade which is a miniseries about Scarlet Witch and they are only involved because of Wiccan.
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#43  Edited By Cafeterialoca

@Vance Astro:Which is why I got really frustrated with CC. It keeps on adding things like the X-Men and Dr. Doom and on and on trying to be as epic as possible, that it's losing sight of it's own characters. That's what I mean about the Young Avengers trying too hard to be epic over its own characters.

*That and the book needs to freaking end by now. Stupid delays forcing it to end in February, when the original date of the trade was supposed to be released*

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#44  Edited By ReVamp

@Cafeterialoca said:

@ReVamp: Which is what Children's Crusade SHOULD be doing. But again, it's getting lost in the Epic feel that at most, Wiccan and Stature feeling like they're developing.

@Vance Astro: True, but I still feel that even though they are similar, they are still going about it a different way. You could say X-23 is a female Wolverine, or you could realize that she is becoming her own character. Powersets don't make the character.

No. Children's Crusade is to fix the sh*t that Marvel did to the Scarlet witch.

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#45  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@Cafeterialoca said:

@Vance Astro: True, but I still feel that even though they are similar, they are still going about it a different way. You could say X-23 is a female Wolverine, or you could realize that she is becoming her own character. Powersets don't make the character.

I understand that their similarities to other characters isn't the biggest issue. The fact they are so similar AND they aren't interesting is the problem.  X-23 is literally a female Wolverine, however she's still interesting. The Avengers Academy is a boring group of characters. The Initiative was a better idea. More variety..better characters. I didn't mind that MVP was clearly a Captain America created to have some relation to Captain America because he is an interesting character.
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#46  Edited By Cafeterialoca

@ReVamp: Should be, but it does feel like they could go either way on this. Not to mention some characters are GROSSLY out of character to make this happen. *Wolverine*

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#47  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@Cafeterialoca said:

@Vance Astro:Which is why I got really frustrated with CC. It keeps on adding things like the X-Men and Dr. Doom and on and on trying to be as epic as possible, that it's losing sight of it's own characters. That's what I mean about the Young Avengers trying too hard to be epic over its own characters.

*That and the book needs to freaking end by now. Stupid delays forcing it to end in February, when the original date of the trade was supposed to be released*

The book isn't about them. Doom and  X-Men are there because they have a relationship with Wanda. The book isn't supposed to be epic it's supposed to take care of the Scarlet Witch situation from House of M. The Young Avengers are only there because Wiccan and Speed are her kids. The book isn't about them.
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#48  Edited By Cafeterialoca

@Vance Astro said:

I understand that their similarities to other characters isn't the biggest issue. The fact they are so similar AND they aren't interesting is the problem. X-23 is literally a female Wolverine, however she's still interesting. The Avengers Academy is a boring group of characters. The Initiative was a better idea. More variety..better characters. I didn't mind that MVP was clearly a Captain America created to have some relation to Captain America because he is an interesting character.

Interesting is in the eye of the beholder. I think the Academy kids are very interesting and I think many others think so as well.

And Initiative was good, but let's be honest, when you started that book, did you like anyone else besides Cloud 9 or MVP? Chances are, you saw Hardball as Jerk, Komodo as bitch, and Trauma as emo. BUT! You grew to like them over time. That's what happened to me with Academy. I didn't like the book at first, but then picked up issue 8, and have been a solid fan since.

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#49  Edited By Cafeterialoca

@Vance Astro said:

The book isn't about them. Doom and X-Men are there because they have a relationship with Wanda. The book isn't supposed to be epic it's supposed to take care of the Scarlet Witch situation from House of M. The Young Avengers are only there because Wiccan and Speed are her kids. The book isn't about them.

Not supposed to be epic? Victor Von Doom is some Golden God. The X-Men and Avengers have this whole outright brawl. Time Travel is involved. When you have Avengers, X-Men, Dr. Doom, and many more wild elements like this in a mini that's beyond 6 issues, that's practically an event.

How is that not considered epic when the story feels like it should be an event with tie ins?

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#50  Edited By SC  Moderator
@ReVamp said:

@Vance Astro said:

@Dernman said:
@Vance Astro: I'm not sure I read it right because I was skimming but didn't he say he didn't set out to make him gay but then later say in early issues there were hints.
Yea...but my beef with it, is why there has to be a big announcement every time we find out some character is gay? Who cares? (No Disrespect to the OP)

Real Talk. I hated it when they make such a big deal of character developments like this just to grab sales.

 
Eh casual fans and readers have very unrefined tastes. Most readers and fans only really care about characters they can A. Identify with and B. have as wish fulfillment fantasies.  
 
This is true of most mediums. This is why comics reflects its own fanbase. X-23 book is getting cancelled for a few reasons, but one reason they wouldn't be as big a factor is her gender. Me personally? If they announced that she was bisexual just to pick up an extra 500 readers and thus prevent the cancellation of the book because thats how other fans purchasing habits affect books, I wouldn't really care lol  
 
This is why such things get turned into big announcements. Either find a legal way to put Brian Michael Bendis on every Marvel comic or make big deals over things that aren't big deals, or change the purchasing habits of roughly 500 000 thousand people. If they thought that dying the hair character of a character would get attention/fans, they would probably make a big deal over that TBH, but given how low sales are I mean, its not like readers and fans reward non sensationalized writing and publicity innit? They are suppose to appeal to the inner comic book aficionado in everyone? (I mean ideally, things would be better of for me if they did)

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