Once again, the temperature of outer space is NOT absolute Zero. The coldest area in space is 1° above absolute Zero.

@butterflykyss: But you wanted the thread updated with the information in your post which would make it a fact. It could be an addition in the possibilites portion as just about everyone agrees it's a line she could cross but I just wouldn't want anyone coming here looking for info on her taking a very arguable (in the least) proof of her creating absolute zero and spreading the claim.

Understood about simply challenging the idea of her not being able to do so but since updating the thread with it was brought up I just had to step in and say I can't agree if that's what the point was.

1. How can you make the claim that at the time Claremont believed absolute zero to be one thing but then use later scans to support your argument? You can't. Unless you provide something prior to my scan to support your claim. What I provided were scans predating my scan proving the concept of absolute zero existed at marvel which we both know is the lowest possible temperature.

2. Based upon our knowledge and understanding of space today is why we know this to be true. However, as you have stated canon trumps science and there is evidence from canon to support the claim that space has temperatures that exist at absolute zero. However, in the scan you provided I dont believe the writer was intending to state ororo reached those temperatures.

3. Your arguments are contradictory. First you state canon trumps science, but when I provide scans that support what I've claimed you then say that it is not aligned to scientifically calculations. Which is it? Your scans if magneto are irrelevant to my scans as they were written at a later point. Again, Claremont's understanding of what the lowest temperature was could have changed. This is why I stated that for your point to be valid you would need to provide a scan from a period prior to the one I posted. I dont think yiu can which is why you referenced instances from much later encounters on the topic.

4. You were right about Xavier. All their powers were just responding differently but Ororo statements about the physics there would imply the energy was different:

She even stated that she had to use her powers differences she was fighting Trion, so the mechanics of her powers utilized there were not the as it was with the galatic core:

So since we know that this was in fact different, is the galatic core fear invalidated ? I dont think you would say so.

5. We dont know anything concretely as you cant find anything from prior to that point to suggest otherwise. You are making an extrapolation which again is conjecture and not fact. What is fact pertaining to my scans are the following:

- at the point at which my scan was created the concept of absolute zero was an understood concept at marvel and,

- the lowest possible temperature is absolute zero which was described when she created that storm.

But we can just agree to disagree. I'm not changing your mind and you are not changing mine. It's just as I said a while back, I take the scans for what they are face value and without conjecture, while you look at it as hyperbole.

6. Thanks beloved and I know. It is were we got her infamous quote regarding being the jury, judge and executioner. That stood out to me way more than anything powerwise she or anyone else did in the story. But that's just me.

@shepardoakenprime: let me rephrase this. there are a lot of things on her page that is conjecture and I dont even think marvel would agree to. we state that she is an energy manipulator yes? find me one scan from the past 10 years where she is stated to see the world as energy and manipulate them. but every time her powers are described it is stated that she is an weather manipulator. we state and make claims that her powers can function faster that a conscious thought but how would that make any sense when ororo would need to also think before she chose her target? my point is that some of things on this page can be disputed and argued. I have seen many storm fans countered with some of the similar points yet we still believe them to be true. Nevertheless I don't think anyone could disprove my statements which is why I brought the scan here for this dialogue.

Chile getting old is a mother.. I started my first statement off by saying I elect to change her cold description lol. at any rate, I knew this would be a controversial topic which is why I wanted to provide my links to support. but carry on babies let's keep this discussion going.

@malachi_munroe: yes mal I understand this because of what we know of science today but as my scan showed there was a period within marvel early own where it was believed the coldest temp existed in space as absolute zero. and as I was told at least then canon trumps science ;)

also mal, I want to say you made the best case against my claim as to why the feat wasnt absolute zero but I think my counter was a good response to your point.

@butterflykyss

. we state that she is an energy manipulator yes? find me one scan from the past 10 years where she is stated to see the world as energy and manipulate them. but every time her powers are described it is stated that she is a weather manipulator.

But what's your point? That's literally the foundation of how we powers operate. For example when referring to Nightcrawler no one describes him as "Using the brimstone dimension to teleport" It's simply understood that at the core that's how his power functions. Or even someone like Scott. When was the last time you saw a description of his powers being scribed as "dimensional appatures via his eyes to produce powerful concussive beams of force"? No for the sake of SIMPLICITY it's reduced to Optic Blasts/Beams. It's pretty much the same for any power that can't be summed up in a few words like telepathy, super strength, ect. But anytime there's panel space for it it's explained thoroughly. Considering how many times you've used the scans from X-Treme X-Men to explain this I think this would be the last type of argument you'd want to make.

we state and make claims that her powers can function faster that a conscious thought but how would that make any sense when Ororo would need to also think before she chose her target?

Are you being serious right now? Like really serious? I just...

How many times have you yourself pulled that card in a debate? We know her powers CAN (as in not every single time she's written) function faster than a conscious thought because of her connection to the biosphere of the planet. We're not saying she can pull off complex feats of precision and skill through this method but it is a FACT that given how fundamentally connected she and the biosphere are her powers can activate in less than a conscious thought.

--------

That being said what you will NOT do is try and drum up doubt on what I and other Storm fans have built over the years to try and prop up your piss poor argument because you can kindly GTFO with that. You tried it with Adversary and got your ass handed to you on a rusty platter but you will not waltz in here under the guise of a "discussion" to try and put another piece of inaccurate info on this thread.

If YOU want to sit here and believe that Storm has achieved absolute 0 then you go right on ahead with that argument and it'll be ripped to shreds every time.

Do you seriously think for a MOMENT that the MANY Storm fans that have come before you would not have pieced 2 and 2 together to say Storm produced absolute zero if that was actually the case? Newsflash Kyss you are not the first Storm fan to scour through old comics and read the backstories and see scans. If Storm had achieved absolute zero then I can assure you more competent Storm fans than you would have already successfully made that case.

@butterflykysssaid:

Hi all. I elect to update the section of her ability to create cold to include up to the lowest possible temperatures which is absolute zero.

Now the next question is has Ororo ever created the "lowest possible temperature" anywhere in canon? The answer would be yes and it occured early on in her career as an xman:

Here is your quote.

---

@butterflykysssaid:

1. How can you make the claim that at the time Claremont believed absolute zero to be one thing but then use later scans to support your argument? You can't. Unless you provide something prior to my scan to support your claim. What I provided were scans predating my scan proving the concept of absolute zero existed at marvel which we both know is the lowest possible temperature.

Because there's no reason to assume his concept of absolute zero being obtainable changed at that point. Before anything else, you would need to prove Claremont even actually thought this was something that could be achieved under his pen in the first place. All of the evidence I provided shows nothing but the contrary.

2. Based upon our knowledge and understanding of space today is why we know this to be true. However, as you have stated canon trumps science and there is evidence from canon to support the claim that space has temperatures that exist at absolute zero. However, in the scan you provided I dont believe the writer was intending to state ororo reached those temperatures.

Doesn't matter. By todays standards, space cold isn't absolute zero, so we can't use that to prove she can achieve what is NOW considered absolute zero.

3. Your arguments are contradictory. First you state canon trumps science, but when I provide scans that support what I've claimed you then say that it is not aligned to scientifically calculations. Which is it? Your scans if magneto are irrelevant to my scans as they were written at a later point. Again, Claremont's understanding of what the lowest temperature was could have changed. This is why I stated that for your point to be valid you would need to provide a scan from a period prior to the one I posted. I dont think yiu can which is why you referenced instances from much later encounters on the topic.

You're talking about two different things.

The concept of absolute zero does exist in comics. I never claimed that it didn't. Otherwise, NEAR or Virtual absolute zero never would've been a thing to begin with.

The idea to achieve those temperatures is what is being brought into question. Especially under Claremont's pen. The scan with Magneto, Reed and Iceman prove without a shadow of a doubt that the calculations not only do NOT match up with the true calculations of what we know as absolute zero today, but Claremont himself has explicitly shown that virtual absolute is as cold as it gets.

You have provided no instances that refute this. So the argument ends here.

4. You were right about Xavier.

Of course I was.

All their powers were just responding differently but Ororo statements about the physics there would imply the energy was different:

She even stated that she had to use her powers differences she was fighting Trion, so the mechanics of her powers utilized there were not the as it was with the galatic core:

So since we know that this was in fact different, is the galatic core fear invalidated ? I dont think you would say so.

Lol? Of course I'm not talking about the powers she manifested here. It's pretty obvious to anyone who's seen any scans from this book that her powers don't work the same here. The point was in her ability to channel LARGE quantities of elemental energy though her body. It's comparable to the galactic core on that principle since it's quite literally what she did in both those situations.

but if you REALLY want me to take down the galactic core and Trion feat, I can do that... It's not a prerogative of mine to make Storm this all powerful force in the universe.

But we can just agree to disagree. I'm not changing your mind and you are not changing mine. It's just as I said a while back, I take the scans for what they are face value and without conjecture, while you look at it as hyperbole.

I don't need to change your mind because I'm not the one requesting to add extrapolated feats to the OP. Bring us something that actually proves she can reach absolute zero and then we can talk. Otherwise, have a good day.

6. Thanks beloved and I know. It is were we got her infamous quote regarding being the jury, judge and executioner. That stood out to me way more than anything powerwise she or anyone else did in the story. But that's just me.

Right. So long as she's over Cyclops and Jean, and everyone else...

You're really pathetic for pulling something like this, Kyss. To bring the integrity of all that we've built into question all because you want us to accept that laughable argument... Truly shameful. I gave you the time of day and considered your request despite your obvious trolling and overblowing of feats... Honestly, you're not even worth the time anymore considering the infamous reputation you've built for yourself and for your peers on this site. This is the last time I will be speaking to you.

Ok, so it's apparent that WE as Storm Fans need to come to a Agreement when discussing Storm's powers. Because we can not be giving people and going on debates using Mis-Information.

We ALL agree that it's possible for Storm to achieve Absolute Zero. But what we also need to agree on is that Storm has not done this in Cannon. She has come close Via the HyperStorm.

The Scan in question that were are talking about? IMO is a Vague Statement made by Storm. We have no idea what Temperature she is talking about nor do we see it even stated a Absolute Zero. So, we can't possibly say that's what she did.

Also, we can't be arguing with each other in this Dynamic Thread of Storm's powers. It looks VERY bad on us even more.

@butterflykyss: I don't really need to say anything else that hasn't been already said, other than to reiterate that theres a difference between explaining how her powers work with decades of canon supporting it and claiming she can do a specific feat with 1 scan that is very arguable.

1. The point is I've talked to users who state that those past descriptions of her powers were retconned because she isnt described as such. Also, it seems you have a lot to get off your chest but read ALL of what I said. I stated I have seen storm fans countered with those arguements. But seeing you are looking to argue when I said storm fans I was including myself in that lot. I didn't think I had to state the obvious.

2. Do you consider creating a hurricane a complex feat because I certainly do. And just so we are clear again, I know what I've said better than you could ever tell me. My point is that people are using similar arguments I've heard from other users against storm fans (including myself) that are being made about the lowest temperature possible feat (ie it only happened once or its hyperbole, etc.)

3. Chile have you lost your mind???? Baby I will do whatever the hell I want, whenever the hell I want to do as long as I'm adhering to the sites rule. That's first. You not dealing with a jhazz or a lightweight. I'm not going to parse words because of what you or anyone else made to a fictional character's page. Dont delude yourself and your importance here especially in regards to me. Now that is said, if you would get out of your feelings I'm not trying to discredit anything. I said we in my examples made, which would mean I'm including myself in criticism used. The point is that users WILL ALWAYS find a way to point hole in your arguments (which is what people do with Trion when they call it an outlier, or when they do it when they talk about the galatic core feat when they say it only happened once). Its essentially the same stuff people are doing with the scan I posted. The latter is the same argument Storm_calling used against my claim that its absolute because it cant be that since it only happened once. Hell people tell me storm is not a goddess even though it has been explicitly stated.

But why you so pressed hun??? I mean I know you have had problems with me since whenever but frankly, I dont give a rat's a$$ about how you feel about me but dont use this moment of misinterpreting my point to get your frustrations out. Take that up with a therapist and put on some ms. cardi press. it seems to fit you well about now.

1. Yup I already acknowledge that hun. But thank you anyway moving on.

2. But I have older scans demonstrating that marvel at one point considered space absolute zero. The thing is this, prove Ororo cant produce absolute temperatures or the lowest temperate possible. Where does it ever say that? I've provided a scan saying exactly that, no mention of space or anything just simply she created the lowest possible temperature. So again, is absolute zero not the lowest possible temperature?

3. No I dont need to prove anything as I know what the definition of absolute zero is. It's the lowest possible temperature. You stated his thoughts on the regard was that the lowest possible temperature was near absolute using later scans. So please answer is absolute zero not the lowest possible temperature? And also provide a scan of Claremont driving absolute zero as near absolute before the storm scan.

4. Wish I could say the same about some of your arguments on the subject of absolute zero (^_^).

5. Naw I'm good. You have a great day too.

6. Yup glad you know me so well.

1. No what is pathetic is how toxic you are. Instead of seeing what I was saying, which was never to challenge the integrity of this thread, you assumed the absolute worse. And you know why? Because you think you are the only authority on storm and you cant be challenged. That's why you are getting so defensive in our exchange because you just want everyone to just accept your words because you say so? That ain't EVER been me. But now that I think about it, isnt that why you and shade got into on CBR and why you ultimately left and stop posting there? You couldnt handle it huh? Get off your high horse for a second and you will see I said WE MAKE CLAIMS SHE CAN DO whatever, so I'm automatically including myself in the criticism of the arguments people use against Storm fans. I was literally posting statements I have seen people post against me. But your problem is you take this fictional stuff so personally and you dont like to be challenged that instead of actually reading what I said, you look to find the negative. If you actually stepped back and took a breathe why on earth would it make any sense for me to question something I myself point people to all the time? But let me thank you for your honesty. Never knew you thought such a thing, but your lashing out in this manner is what I would expect from toxic people such as yourself. And praise the hadari yao for not talking to me as I don't need that type of negativity in my comicvine life. But even still, please know I am so saddened by the fact that you wont be speaking to me anymore as you bring so much value to the things that go on in my every day life. And so you do not confuse any more of my words that was sarcasm.

Kysses

gotcha boo. it's a agree to disagee for me. I'm glad you were able to discuss this without being hostile.

it comes down to this:

Can we provide actual proof on panel that specifically states. Storm created Absolute Zero Temps.

@roddy2010: Wow, this is a really in depth respect thread! Comic Vine isn't known for having even decent respect threads. But we all know you were just waiting until Renchamp stepped down before you busted out all those scans...

@mooty_pass: mooty when have i ever cared about what the majority thinks. the majority told me coates wasnt going to make storm a goddess and he did. a majority said the xbooks wouldn't acknowledge but they did. its ok people dont agree but I'm not about to let anyone talk to me because they put together a feats page??? tf??

That said, I asked one simple questions:

is absolute zero not the lowest temperature?

I then got answers that used conjecture to try and disprove my point. the only person again who made the most valid point was maiah around colossus not being able to survive absolute zero but he was on the ground.

but nevertheless, I don't need anyone to agree with me. it makes perfect sense and its something I can argue because if it wasnt at least one sensible argument would have been made against and with exception of maiah it hasnt. I will ask you the same, what is the lowest possible temperature?

@mooty_pass: yes I can. she stated I created the lowest temp possible which scientifically is absolute zero. is it not?

@butterflykyss

1. The point is I've talked to users who state that those past descriptions of her powers were retconned because she isnt described as such. Also, it seems you have a lot to get off your chest but read ALL of what I said. I stated I have seen storm fans countered with those arguements. But seeing you are looking to argue when I said storm fans I was including myself in that lot. I didn't think I had to state the obvious.

The only thing I have to get off my chest is that I think you're a clown. Wow that was easy. But moving on..

The thing is her powers have never changed since day one. She was always an energy manipulator. Just because it's not described that way in every issue does not mean that's not the case. Or how else would you or anyone else explain her more "non weather" related feats? Last time I checked her directly controlling the air in someone's lungs really isn't set in the same category as calling down a tornado or a hailstorm.

While the energy she manipulates RESULTS in weather phenomena she can go beyond that. So again. Nothing has changed. Period.

2. Do you consider creating a hurricane a complex feat because I certainly do. And just so we are clear again, I know what I've said better than you could ever tell me. My point is that people are using similar arguments I've heard from other users against storm fans (including myself) that are being made about the lowest temperature possible feat (ie it only happened once or its hyperbole, etc.)

For someone like Storm? Not remotely. Given how in tune with the biosphere she is and the fact her powers are psionic I find it easy to accept that she summons a hurricane or an instant F5 tornado or turning a hurricane on and off in the blink of an eye is something she is perfectly capable of doing. But as I said before there's a difference her generating hurricane winds or a blink of an eye storm than there is her doing something major like putting a hole in the ozone layer and Magnetic field or stopping a Tsunami. Major stuff like that would of course require her direct concentration.

3. Chile have you lost your mind???? Baby I will do whatever the hell I want, whenever the hell I want to do as long as I'm adhering to the sites rule. That's first. You not dealing with a jhazz or a lightweight.

When you stop acting like a clown you will stop being treated as such. You want to say you're not Jhazz but you're doing the exact same shit he was. Blowing Storm's feats out of proportions just to prop up some asine argument to make her look better. Storm doesn't need any help looking powerful. I don't know what sort of psychological issues you may have where you feel the need to throw your weakness on Storm but I suggest you go see someone.

Now as for the first part of your sentence I LOVE that you said that. You're totally right. You CAN do WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT. But guess what love that does NOT excuse you from a) looking like a clown and b) being faced with the consequences. Isn't free speech grand?!

I'm not going to parse words because what you or anyone else made contributions to a fictional character page.

It's funny you word it like this because with the way you act you'd think Storm has a lightning bolt headed for your head and if you don't make her out to be the end all be all she's going to fry you.

Your entire absolute 0 claim has been debunked and yet you insist on acting like everyone else is wrong and just not seeing it. Newsflash that's exactly what trolls/clowns do.

Dont delude yourself in your importance here especially in regards to me.

I'm not deluded in anything but nice try. Fact is I was here doing the work while you were off reading Wikipedia. The fact that you think you can strut in here and try to "one up" people who have been doing the work and research for over a decade is absolutely hilarious to me. You are the same clown who has literally been banned from entire battle boards (Cbr). You are the same clown who is literally called out by name to ignore in the rules of people on cv. Do I think it's right to single out someone? Not necessarily but it damn sure calls into question just how believable that person is in the grand scheme of things.

So please Kyss don't think for a MOMENT that I am pressed about you or anything you do because at the end of the day.. you're a clown. You provide entertainment and when people are tired of you you'll be tossed out like last weeks' garbage the same way Rlamm was and so many other trolls before him.

This is not some grand conspiracy to try and downplay Storm or prove you wrong even though you're right. Your evidence simply doesn't hold a candle yet you act like you've found the Holy Grail.

Now that is said, if you would get out of your feelings I'm not trying to discredit anything.

Do you have a mental illness that causes you to forget what you write after you post? You were quick to edit your original post because you KNEW the stuff you said was horsesh1t and actually went against your entire argument. '

How are you in the same breath going to call into question the validity of this thread when you are trying to include your own "work" in it? If that's not shooting yourself in the foot I don't know what is.

I'm simply saying people WILL ALWAYS find a way to point hole in your arguments (which is what people do with Trion when they call it an outlier, or when they do it when they talk about the galatic core feat when they say it only happened once)

Of course people will find holes in an argument IF it's not sound. You think anyone is going to argue something that can be proven over and over again? People like that can't be helped because they are actively trying to stay ignorant as they enjoy it.

This latter is the same argument Storm_calling used against my claim that its absolute because it cant be that since it only happened once. Hell people tell me storm is not a goddess even though it has been explicitly stated.

So who gives a flying fuc%? People will believe what they want to believe. IF they are actually interested in learning about Storm and her capabilities than THIS is where they come. THIS is what we've built up this thread to be.

So you're damn right we're going to put every single shred of evidence through the wringer to see if it checks out. Hell if it had been up to you we'd have bullsh!t like Adversary being a multiversal threat, Storm being able to solo the Juggernaught, and her being immune to being burned by flames.

These were all arguments you made and were all shot down to anyone with common sense. Of course you still believe that Storm can't be burned by flames because you've done what you seemingly do best - take a scan and pretzel it to fit your narrative. Which again... is what clowns do.

So I get it, you have had problems with me since whenever.

I've never had a problem with you until today. At least not when it came to Storm. Were you nerve grating at times? Hell yeah. But this would be the first time I'd actually say I've had a problem with you.

Frankly, I dont give a rat's a$$ about how you feel about me but dont use this moment of misinterpreting my point to get your frustrations out.

I'm not misinterpreting anything. And again the fact that you had to go back and edit your original post tells me YOU KNEW you were in the wrong so you had to go tone it down. You make a claim that could lead to doubt on the validity of this thread and you expect the people who actually made the damn thing to sit here and twiddle our thumbs? You who knows full well the bullsh1t Storm goes through on this very site when it comes to proving even basic stuff? Come now Kyss save the victim acting for Law and Order.

Take that up with a therapist.

That's funny you say that considering you can't seem to go a week without insulting Emma on Storm's forum on cbr. I don't believe I've ever seen someone have that much hate for a fictional character. So maybe you may want to take that up with YOUR therapist and tell him or her where the bad rich white lady touched you. Or did she throw you in a cage? According to you that's her go-to move.

And don't do that. Stop playing the victim. No offense to Shapard as he seems to be a nice and knowledgeable guy - but he wasn't here from the start. He didn't put this thread together from scratch. So obviously he's not going to feel the same way about it as I or Storm_Calling or any of the other OG people do.

@storm_calling: The Trion and galactic core feats should remain in the OP. Regardless if one feels she should or should not be that powerful, canon has given her those levels.

First off thank you for the kind words.

Secondly I'm not sure what you're getting at? This is the second incarnation of this thread. The first one had the vast majority of the scans on it just not as streamlined and that's been around since 2012. And I (after talking with a few others) went to a GM and asked for the original thread to be closed. So there was no foul activity going on or anything like that.

Also if you want more respect threads of good quality I'd check this out.

Then you would actually be incorrect.

Because during that time an age Absolute Zero wasn't a real concept until NOW. What Storm said is a Vague Statement.

At this point it's a lost cause trying to convince him. If that were truly absolute zero then apparently Wolverine and Kurt can shrug it off with no issues whatsoever.

1. How can I make this more clear: I dont care what you think of me. you're irrelevant. invest your thoughts somewhere else it mattered. But to your on topic point, I know this but the newer readers or people who like to be obtuse for the sake of it will use this fact to contradict earlier showings. That is just the fact and I'm sure you are very well aware of this, seeing as though you keep tabs with everything I write.

2. Regardless of what you think people have still made the point it was hyperbole. Seen it said too many times to me in past.

3. What feats have a blown out proportion? You mean the one about lowest temperature possible that is literally the definition of absolute zero? Prove it's not absolute zero and I will concede but you cant because if you could have you would have done so pages ago. And a clown is only one who professes to know everything not being able to admit when they are wrong. Sound more like you. just sayin.

And what consequences??? LOLOLOL! You really have an inflated sense of importance.. Hilarious.

4. You have so many jokes today. If the absolute zero feat was debunked (which it wasnt) it certainly wasnt because of anything meaningful or insightful you have added to discussion.

5. Ok you want a Pulitzer? You want me to bow down and a say how wrong I was for pointing out the things other comicviners say about the scans from Claremont that have absolutely nothing to do with your efforts you put into creating this thread? Again, get over yourself.

For you not to be pressed about me you sure as heck know so much about me and my posts. I can't tell you one iota of a thing you have ever said. Never followed your posts, where you been banned, or anything as you are that inconsequential to me. But it cute you can give me a summary of my time here. Oh how I love my fans.

6. Please quote the exact quote that called into question the integrity of this thread and how could I do that when I referred to the preceding statement as "we storm fans claim?" Do posters not say its hyperbole whenever its stated her powers work in a blink of an eye? I mean to question the integrity of the page would first require me to question Claremont as a writer and whether he was being literal or not which has nothing to do with the feat page. But again the only horse manure here is your inflated sense of reality. Now that is pretty rank lol.

7. People make the claim ALL THE TIME that the blink in the eye scans are not literal, what are you even talking about? Instead of reading all my posts maybe you should lurk on other posters responses to things I have directly said.

8. I'm going to disagee with you there. It people want to learn about her powers and how they function the first thing I would recommend is for a person to read her appearances by Claremont in Uncanny. That has been very helpful in me better understanding her powers and how they work. I however do think this comprehensive write up is a good place to see everything in one place and it is thorough.

Chile I just love how you try to claim I make ridiculous claims but you don't know the reasons behind them? Do you know who Roma is, what she protected, and what being was looking to destroy her for his own means? If you knew that Adversary being called a multiversal threat wouldn't be thet far-fetched. But that is why it is important to read the actual stories first before coming to threads like these (despite how comprehensive they may be) because as a reader you first get the entire picture to formulate a well-read conclusion. Yes I most certainly think she could solo juggernaut. If iceman can why couldnt she?

9. That's not true you've me told yourself you didnt care for me for the whole raindrops stuff. And if you have a problem with me presenting actual facts that users have said against storm fans about the scans on the thread that aint my problem.

10. I didnt edit my original post that both you and Storm_calling quoted. Even if I did your posts would show the original statements and I said we as storm fans make claims that can argued against which is true. how the heck does thet equate to questioning the integrity of the thread. last time I checked neither you storm_calling wrote for marvel or are Claremont.

11. again for you to be not be pressed about me you sure know my posting habits. I'm glad I can't say the same.

absolute zero has been around since the 19th century? what are you talking about?

girl I domt have to play anything. I'm stating the facts yet again. you guys were ready to pop off about something because you have issues with me pushing back against your points and took it personal. I ain't bothered by it just calling it what it is.

whew chile

1. the majority said she wasn't a goddess. one or two people saying otherwise wouldnt make it such.

2. Logan and nightcrawler were not frozen because she wasnt directing the intensity of the cold at them. in fact if you read the issue, colossus is frozen because she was close to the breach which was the focus of her attack.

3. Why were they not frozen solid but colossus was? I explained this in an earlier post or at least provided a theory as to why since it is not explicitly stated.

4. When I brought maiah in it was to make the point he made a fair counter to my claim hun. I'm acknowledging there could be an argument made but I also countered they point with another one.

5. Again absolute zero has been a known thing since the 19th century I'm not sure I follow you here.

Okay, a few things:

1) While I do believe Storm should be able to create an absolute zero (I have already proven how her powerset is much better suited for this than Bobby's-which it should be impossible for him to achieve, but canon gave it to him anyway...but moving on), I am not going to take sides on whether or not she pulled one off in Kyss's scan from Uncanny X-Men #149.

The discussion has gotten harsh between the two sides, and I don't wish to pursue other Storm fans with the same intensity I go at Jean fans and other Storm detractors (and I am not calling anyone in this thread a "Storm detractor" We all love Storm here). I will say, however, the fact that Kurt and Logan weren't frozen doesn't prove anything since Storm does have the fine-tune control. She obviously took measures to protect the two teammates whom she knew where they were located, but had no idea with Peter was, hence he ended up being frozen. This is why she asked Kurt and Logan to help her find him after she froze the lava flow. Again, I repeat, she didn't know where Peter was, so she could not shield him from her elemental assault on the lava, and he ended up being the one frozen in a block of ice.

I would argue in that instance where Kurt and Logan were not frozen as being an earlier example of her control which has only gotten better over the years.

2) Anyone who claims that Storm can't beat Juggernaut, I'd like to push back on that. She could easily battlefield remove him in a fight unless he can run on air. Given that she's blasted a hole from street level all the way down to the Morlock tunnels, which are a thousand feet underground, I don't see why she couldn't simply blast a large chasm under Juggernaut's feet to stop his forward momentum and use a wind to scoop him up and throw him away while he's falling.

There was also another issue after Zero Tolerance where Joseph threated Juggernaut claiming he could control the iron in his bloodstream. Now, I don't know if the writer meant he could really do that, or if it would even have an affect on Juggy, but if it could hurt Juggernaut, then Storm controlling the electrical impulses in his nervous system should prove far more devastating. Again, that would all be conjecture on both Storm and Joseph hurting Juggy with their respective internal attacks.

3) I want to thank everyone involved for their efforts in creating this streamlined version of a Storm Respect thread.

4) Whether or not you guys agree with each other, try not to be so hard on the other side. I just got through fighting with Jean fans who are trying to claim that Jean is as powerful as the Phoenix Force all on her own, and they want to ignore the various Phoenix Force retcons that destroys their arguments. I haven't seen any positions in this thread so far fetched compared to some of the arguments in the Jean Grey vs. Storm debate I just had. And it's not just the Jean fanbase either. Historically, it's been other fanbases as well like Magneto's.

you make excellent point about why they were not frozen stormcell. and it only went south when I was called pathetic and acucused of insulting the integrity of the thread which I never did nor did I say anything personally attacking storm_calling or son_of_son prior to their personal attacks. but I'm grateful for their truth as I know how to engage them moving forward. before then I thought it was a respectful exchange even though I could tell some were taking this more personal than they should.

@butterflykyss said:

@stormcell said:

Okay, a few things:

1) While I do believe Storm should be able to create an absolute zero (I have already proven how her powerset is much better suited for this than Bobby's-which it should be impossible for him to achieve, but canon gave it to him anyway...but moving on), I am not going to take sides on whether or not she pulled one off in Kyss's scan from Uncanny X-Men #149. The discussion has gotten harsh between the two sides, and I don't wish to pursue other Storm fans with the same intensity I go at Jean fans and other Storm detractors. I will say, however, the fact that Kurt and Logan weren't frozen doesn't prove anything since Storm does have the fine-tune control. She obviously took measures to protect the two teammates whom she knew where they were located, but had no idea with Peter was, hence he ended up being frozen. This is why she asked Kurt and Logan to help her find him after she froze the lava flow. Again, she didn't know where Peter was, and he ended up frozen in a block of ice.

I would argue in that instance where Kurt and Logan were not frozen as being an earlier example of her control which has only gotten better over the years.

2) Anyone who claims that Storm can't beat Juggernaut, I'd meet you in the battle threads. She could easily battlefield remove him in a fight unless he can run on air. Given that she's blasted a hole from street level all the way down to the Morlock tunnels, which are a thousand feet underground, I don't see why she couldn't simply blast a large chasm under Juggernaut's feet to stop his forward momentum and use a wind to throw him away while he's falling.

There was also another issue after Zero Tolerance where Joseph threated Juggernaut claiming he could control the iron in his bloodstream. Now, I don't know if the writer meant he could really do that, or if it would even have an affect on Juggy, but if it could hurt Juggernaut, then Storm controlling the electrical impulses in his nervous system should prove far more devastating. Again, that would all be conjecture on both Storm and Joseph hurting Juggy with their respective internal attacks.

3) I want to thank everyone involved for their efforts in creating this streamlined version of a Storm Respect thread.

4) Whether or not you guys agree with each other, try not to be so hard on the other side. I just got through fighting with Jean fans who are trying to claim that Jean is as powerful as the Phoenix Force all on her own, and they want to ignore the various Phoenix Force retcons that destroys their arguments. Whether or not the two sides agree with each other in this absolute zero debate, I haven't seen any positions in this thread so far fetched compared to some of the arguments in the Jean Grey vs. Storm debate I just had. And it's not just the Jean fanbase either. Historically, it's been other fanbases as well like Magneto's.

you make excellent point about why they were not frozen stormcell. and it only went south when I was called pathetic and acucused of insulting the integrity of the thread which I never did said anything personally attacking storm_calling or son_of_son. but I'm grateful for their truth as I know how to engage them moving forward. before then I thought it was a respectful exchange even though I could tell some were taking this more personal than they should.

LOL! That gif! Well, I'm going back to lurker mode.

@stormcell said:

@butterflykyss said:

@stormcell said:

Okay, a few things:

1) While I do believe Storm should be able to create an absolute zero (I have already proven how her powerset is much better suited for this than Bobby's-which it should be impossible for him to achieve, but canon gave it to him anyway...but moving on), I am not going to take sides on whether or not she pulled one off in Kyss's scan from Uncanny X-Men #149. The discussion has gotten harsh between the two sides, and I don't wish to pursue other Storm fans with the same intensity I go at Jean fans and other Storm detractors. I will say, however, the fact that Kurt and Logan weren't frozen doesn't prove anything since Storm does have the fine-tune control. She obviously took measures to protect the two teammates whom she knew where they were located, but had no idea with Peter was, hence he ended up being frozen. This is why she asked Kurt and Logan to help her find him after she froze the lava flow. Again, she didn't know where Peter was, and he ended up frozen in a block of ice.

I would argue in that instance where Kurt and Logan were not frozen as being an earlier example of her control which has only gotten better over the years.

2) Anyone who claims that Storm can't beat Juggernaut, I'd meet you in the battle threads. She could easily battlefield remove him in a fight unless he can run on air. Given that she's blasted a hole from street level all the way down to the Morlock tunnels, which are a thousand feet underground, I don't see why she couldn't simply blast a large chasm under Juggernaut's feet to stop his forward momentum and use a wind to throw him away while he's falling.

There was also another issue after Zero Tolerance where Joseph threated Juggernaut claiming he could control the iron in his bloodstream. Now, I don't know if the writer meant he could really do that, or if it would even have an affect on Juggy, but if it could hurt Juggernaut, then Storm controlling the electrical impulses in his nervous system should prove far more devastating. Again, that would all be conjecture on both Storm and Joseph hurting Juggy with their respective internal attacks.

3) I want to thank everyone involved for their efforts in creating this streamlined version of a Storm Respect thread.

4) Whether or not you guys agree with each other, try not to be so hard on the other side. I just got through fighting with Jean fans who are trying to claim that Jean is as powerful as the Phoenix Force all on her own, and they want to ignore the various Phoenix Force retcons that destroys their arguments. Whether or not the two sides agree with each other in this absolute zero debate, I haven't seen any positions in this thread so far fetched compared to some of the arguments in the Jean Grey vs. Storm debate I just had. And it's not just the Jean fanbase either. Historically, it's been other fanbases as well like Magneto's.

you make excellent point about why they were not frozen stormcell. and it only went south when I was called pathetic and acucused of insulting the integrity of the thread which I never did said anything personally attacking storm_calling or son_of_son. but I'm grateful for their truth as I know how to engage them moving forward. before then I thought it was a respectful exchange even though I could tell some were taking this more personal than they should.

LOL! That gif! Well, I'm going back to lurker mode.

lololol I love me some Maxine.

and boo I know the truth and what you think just based upon your response here. your secret is safe with me:

@butterflykyss: LOL! Hey, I didn't say nuttin' about that.

@stormcell: dm your honest thoughts when you can I would love to know them.

@butterflykyss: LOL! Hey, I'm not taking sides in that discussion. ;)

@malachi_munroe: lmfao had I known this would have resulted in this I think I would have never made the post...

nahh lolol

*Sigh* Well......

@butterflykyss

1. How can I make this more clear: > dont care what you think of me. you're irrelevant. invest your thoughts somewhere else it mattered. But to your on topic point, I know this but the newer readers or people who like to be obtuse for the sale of it will use this fact to contradict earlier showings. That is just the fact and I'm sure you are very well aware of this, seeing as though you keep tabs with everything I write.

It's not about whether you find me irrelevant or not. It's about you going hardcore to pollute this thread with inaccurate information simply to soothe your ego.

2. Regardless of what you think people have still made the point it was hyperbole. Seen it said too many times to me in past.

How is it hyperbole when we've seen it happen time and time again? Storm was literally frozen in chrome and her subconscious mind took over. She has herself has said she can take enemies out before they could raise their gun to her or something of that nature.

It's not hyperbole if it's happened on more than on occasion. It's fact!

For example there's this scan of Cyclops that says he's shooting Juggernaught with the power to split a small moon. Now you, I, and everyone else who even has a passing knowledge of Scott knows he's not capable of dishing out THAT much power even if he took off his visor. This is what we'd call hyperbole.

3. What feats have a blown out proportion? You mean the one about lowest temperature possible that is literally the definition of absolute zero? Prove it's not absolute zero and I will concede but you cant because if you could have you would have done so pages ago. And a clown is only one who professes to know everything not being able to admit when they are wrong. Sound more like you. just sayin.

And what consequences??? LOLOLOL! You really have an inflated sense of importance.. Hilarious.

Sir are you purposely being dense? This entire discussion is because you won't concede to any evidence proving you wrong about Storm achieving Absolute Zero in the scan you provided. Why would I waste my time trying to convince you of something you've already made up your mind about? If I were trying to do that then I would be the fool. There's debating and then there's a fools run. Other posters may be bored enough to entertain that you with that part of the conversation but I am not one of them.

Again playing the victim I see. The way you make it sound it's like I'm talking about putting you in front of a firing squad. All of this would be the consequences of what you said. You've got several people all calling your claim BS and yet you refuse to even ATTEMPT to go back and look at it from a different PoV.

4. You have so many jokes today. If the absolute zero feat was debunked (which it wasnt) it certainly wasnt because of anything meaningful or insightful you have added to discussion.

Why on Earth would I need to add anything when Storm_Calling has already laid out off the facts? Why would I need to touch on the same stuff again when you've PROVEN you won't back down no matter how wrong you are. It's a pointless effort and a waste of time. Besides at this point the best thing you can hope for is that someone reads all of this and agrees with you because as Storm_Calling has said that wanna be absolute zero scan is not going in the OP. That alone should have been the end of the discussion yet here we are.

5. Ok you want a Pulitzer?

No. But atm I could use a cheeseburger and a large fry with no salt. I haven't eaten yet.

You want me to bow down and a say how wrong I was for pointing out the things other comicviners say about the scans from Claremont that have absolutely nothing to do with your efforts you put into creating this thread? Again, get over yourself.

And yet you're still missing the point. I could give a rats ass about what other people say about Storm. They will always say stuff about Storm out of either sheer ignorance or outright bias against her. This is a fact of life on CV. What irked me is that to try and fit your argument in you want to lay doubt to this entire thread. And then try and use other nameless Storm fans to hide behind. Question - have those Storm fans who claim her energy sight has been retconned ever read this thread? It would be no fault of theirs if they were just ignorant to how her powers operate at their core. If you haven't seen something displayed in years then it's not hard to imagine it doesn't exist anymore UNLESS it's the literal foundation of her power. I mean otherwise why do her eyes go white? If Storm no longer manipulated energy to control the weather then her eyes may as well just stay their normal blue color like other elementals such as Crystal or Iso.

It's simply looking at things as a whole instead of a set few instances.

For you not to be pressed about me you sure as heck no so much about me and my posts. I can't tell you one iota of a thing you have ever said. Never followed your posts, where you been banned, or anything as you are that inconsequential to me. But it cute you can give me a summary of my time here. Oh how I love my fans.

I keep track of the Storm forum CBR because sometimes the discussions/news/Storm appearances are interesting and a helpful reminder. Since I have no account there I can't enjoy their block feature and from what I've heard pretty much makes any user blocked totally invisible save for their username. That is the only reason I know what you post. But again you hype it up and make it sound like I'm damn near stalking you.

And of course you can't follow my posts Kyss... I don't post there. You'd have better luck getting Storm to post.

6. Please quote the exact quote that called into question the integrity of this thread and how could I do that when I referred to the preceding statement as "we storm fans claim?" Do posters not say its hyperbole whenever its stated her powers work in a blink of an eye? I mean to question the integrity of the page would first require me to question Claremont as a writer and whether he was being literal or not which has nothing to do with the feat page. But again the only horse manure hers is your inflated sense of reality. Now that is pretty rank lol.

Lmao oh this is truly beautiful. You know full and damn well I can't quote it because you edited your original post to backtrack. I mean that's all fine and dandy since it only proves you knew what you said was sh1t.

As I said earlier if it happens over and over and over again it's not hyperbole it's canon. You're acting as if I've never had to defend Storm in a debate before. Just because I can't be bothered to do it now because the battle forums are disgusting does not mean I've suddenly lost my memory of when I did do it. People are always going to look for ways to try and downplay Storm because she's an incredibly powerful character who is not to be taken lightly.

7. People make the claim ALL THE TIME that the blink in the eye scans are not literal, what are you even talking about? Instead of reading all my posts maybe you should lurk on other posters responses to things I have directly said.

Lmao wow you really hyping it up like I stalk you. Goddess.. read above....

But as for what other people claim - I'm really finding it difficult why you act like that's such a major roadblock. This thread is literally filled with scans and explanations as to why Storm's power can indeed operate in the blink of an eye. That was the basis of this entire thread. To help clear up the vast misunderstandings surrounding how Storm's powers operate. This is why instead of just scans of feat after feat we also have highly detailed explanations to go along with said feats.

8. I'm going to disagee with you there. It people want to learn about her powers and how they function the first thing I would recommend is for a person to read her appearances by Claremont in Uncanny. That has been very helpful in me better understanding her powers and how they work. I however do think this comprehensive write up is a good place to see everything in one place and it is thorough.

While I would never tell anyone to not read Claremont's work you'd be hard-pressed to find an average person who's willing to put in that much time and dedication ESPECIALLY when they've been given a condensed version of everything he laid out and much more. As odd and strange as it may sound to us. Not everybody finds Storm that interesting where they'd be willing to sort through decades of comics just to find evidence of a feat or two.

Chile I just love how you try to claim I make ridiculous claims but you don't know the reasons behind them? Do you know who Roma is, what she protected, and what being was looking to destroy her for his own means? If you knew that Adversary being called a multiversal threat wouldn't be thet far-fetched. But that is why it is important to read the actual stories first before coming to threads like these (despite how comprehensive they may be) because as a reader you first get the entire picture to formulate a well-read conclusion. Yes I most certainly think she solo juggernaut. If iceman can why couldnt she?

Lol it's funny you can come to attempt to defend Adversary now but when you were included in a PM to talk about it there was nothing but crickets from you.

Hmm strange. I remember you hardcore arguing that Storm could use lightning to solo the Juggster. Nothing about cold. I remember you use that instance where Storm and Spider-Woman nearly killing themselves to do all of a mega BFR of Juggernaught.

9. That's not true you've told yourself you didnt care for me for the whole raindrops stuff.

I didn't care for you during the whole Raindrops debacle because you were at the time unintentionally stirring a pot that was already boiling over. BUT again key phrase: At the time. I got over it as I got over everything else and you know this because we've had conversations after that which were totally issue free.

Now I don't care for you because I see that even in the face of rebuttal you'll not even admit there's a remote chance that you aren't correct. As if the planet itself will open up and Storm will come out to disown you or something.

And if you have a problem with me presenting actual facts that users have said against storm fans about the scans on the thread that aint my problem.

Wow you really need to be meme because you are really doing the "let me speak to your manager" victim role justice.

I don't have a problem with you or anyone producing a scan in Storm defense IF you're actually going to use it correctly.

Again using one of your own examples. You claim that Storm cannot be burned by open flames because she said: "I don't burn." Yet that's where you do a full stop. You leave out the part where a)She's in a heat dome of her own making when she said this, b)we've seen her be burned (although to my knowledge never badly) before. Even Storm herself has to go on the defensive when encountering a pyrokinetic. When she fought Pyro in the past she always snuffed out his flames and it's the same when she first met Idie and she panicked and shot flames at Storm. Storm didn't sit there and just soak it up like a day at the beach. She generated powerful winds to block the stream of flame heading her way.

Now in your world why on Earth would someone who's apparently out and out immune to flames need to waste the energy doing that? I mean it's tantamount to someone like Colossus running behind a car for protection because someone started shooting in his direction. You can see how utterly ridiculous that sounds right? Then again maybe you can't...

10. I didnt edit my original post that both you and Storm_callingl quoted. Even if I did your posts wwould show the original statements and I said we as storm fans make claims that can argued against which is true. how the heck does thet equate to questioning the integrity of the thread. last time I checked neither you storm_calling wrote for marvel or are Claremont.

The post I'm referring to is the post where you quoted Sheppard and then went back and edited. Again nice try.

11. again for you to be not be pressed about me you sure know my posting habits. I'm glad I can't say the same.

See above because I've burst this little fantasy bubble already.

You stating something but I wouldn't call it facts.

Also personal for what? I can't speak for Storm_Calling but I've never had any real issue with you until now. As I mentioned in my earlier post the whole Raindrop thing was water under an old bridge.

@stormcell

I just want to push back on three points just for the sake of clarity:

1) No one here is saying that Storm can never and will never produce an Absolute Zero feat. We're simply saying that the evidence Kyss provided isn't it.

2) But see that's the thing. Even if we say that Storm's fine control allowed her to produce absolute zero temperatures and Kurt and Logan only got a small taste of it. Colossus wasn't so lucky. As far as I know Colossus can't survive in an absolute zero environment and clearly he was caught in the blast since as you pointed out he was frozen solid. Frozen not dead.

If someone somewhere can provide a scan of Colossus tanking true Absolute Zero and shrugging it off I'd be more than happy to see it. That scan on page 3 was already debunked.

3) As for the Juggernaught point. Kyss made the claim that via his patchwork feat analysis Storm could solo Juggernaught with lightning. Not BFR him or control the iron in his blood or anything fancy like that. Simply light him up with bolts of lightning and that would be the end of him. And please keep in mind the keywords here. Kyss said Storm could solo Juggernaught with just lightning not that she could simply hurt him.

----

And you're welcomed. We figured a more streamlined thread would not only make it easier on the eyes but it also wouldn't scare any new people away when they see walls upon walls of scans and texts.

@son_of_storm: Colossus was unaffected by near-absolute zero; however, I admit it's not quite the same as absolute zero: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Iw9GpC1_Gwlda9mEXE3fWFbVzVvAku3pjNCLcV57W4kj7U0qJtoIpVGBYJjH0RkQ99G44KHhDi6o=s0

Also, Storm has frozen Colossus several times in the past.

I hated how Iceman told that lie in this panel saying that only Colossus could've touched that cold while Storm was present. Bobby generated cold like this in Inferno while Storm was holding him, IIRC, and she was unaffected. He doubted Storm's immunity to cold eventhough she's proven him wrong.

On second thought, I should note that though Storm accompanied the team in that craft Forge created, she was not one of the five X-Men depicted in those panels when Bobby made his comment. So, she may have been excluded from what he said.

So yeah it's pretty much back to square one. "Near".

Personally I would love for Storm to out and out producing a true absolute zero feat since I also think it's well within her capabilities to do so. And in true Storm fashion it'd probably be against some mega beasty where she has to break out the big guns.

But yeah I also find issue with the statement Bobby made. But then again the very fact that she held him in ice form while he was generation near absolute zero temperatures pretty much proves that she in fact could also have touched the wall and broke it without harm to herself.

Storm's never going to do anything like this while she and Iceman occupy the same roster.

If there's anything you and I can agree on it's that we both hate when Storm is on a team with another elemental. Especially one with a clearly overlapping powerset. Goddess forbid she ever ends up on a team with Surge. We'd likely end up with her being KOed for the battles like a bad rerun of Gold.

Storm and Surge on the same team? LOL! We wouldn't even get Lightning Lass under that lineup. It would totally be Gold all over again.

1. ok

2. I never said it was hyperbole hun. I said other users say this which they do despite the number of times it can be shown.

3. you cant waste your time because you cant disprove my scan.

4. Presenting conjecture and scans that came perhaps years after mine isnt proving a point. It's an attempt to invalidate but it doesnt prove it.

5. I never once said other storm fans stated it was a retcon about the energy sight, though I do believe this individual to be one. and I would never personally call out a user to make a point, especially when they frequent a different site. but I've definitely seen it said and have had debates in the regard of her energy sight being retconned.

6. Whatever your reasons for keeping up with my posts are greatly appreciated. But if you want live up to date posts from me I suggest you follow me on Twitter @butterflykyss.

7. are you talking about my let me rephrase this statement? I updated that post because I misinterpreted something Shepard had said. in fact that original post didn't even talk to what other users say. I originally asked them to quote me where I asked for the scan to be used in the thread and I saw that I did and updated to reflect that. so I never updated to massage it in an attempt to do whatever you are saying. your claim is simply false. you and storm_calling simply overreacted. but seeing that I know now you are making ish up please tell me what my original post stated? let me guess I said the write up for storm sucks and all of the scans are pis, because you know I insulted the integrity of the thread roght?

8. well sometimes a few scans arent enough to give you the full complexity of a character. it's something that I as a storm fan wish I had done first. that said, I'm not disagreeing with you with usefulness of the thread I simply think the best thing would be to read the source material first.

9. lovely. I dont check my messages at all really because I never get notifications to this. I happened to check it today but removed myself without reading it considering the exchange that went down that I believe to be unnecessary and unwarranted. I get it thsy you felt I attacked the page but I never did not once nor would it make sense to considering how well done it is. this doesnt give storm_calling or you or anyone else to be rude. there wasnt one thing I personally said to either of you and you took it there wrongfully so. so since you saw my original post what exactly did I say to insult the integrity of this thread?

also to juggernaut, spiderwoman and storm were able to hurt him with bioelectricity. considering that her bioelectricity isntnearly as strong as the one she can call from the atmosphere I utilized that as my argument to make said claim. that's all canonically sound. again you dont have to agree but I think an argument can be made to this now especially seeing she was able to break free from the bands of cytorrak with cytorrak being a source of juggs power.

10. So are you upset with me because I insulted the integrity of this thread or that I just wont agree with everyone else. baby, you know my posts better than i do apparently. I dont simply agree with stuff because others say so. but this also not true, I acknowledged that maiah made a great point about colossus but then I countered that since he was laying on the floor he wassnt getting the full intensity of the absolute cold which could explain that. so how is that me not being able to see that when I have done that but simply countered that eith another argument?

11. if lightning which is several thousands of degrees dont burn her, and being exposed to radiation unfiltered by the ozone doesnt but instantly burned an ocean and I have a scan that says she doesnt burn I think.that is fair. I know many wont agree that's ok. but we can be disagreeable without being nasty and taking things personally to the point you say rude things to someone. we have had this discussion you and I before.

12. yea now tell me exactly what i said when i edited it because my initial post was a defensive in regards to him talking about me requesting the to post the scan. when I saw they were right I edited to reflect that. it had zilch to do with the contents of the thread. so again what exactly did I say to question the integrity of this thread? you read it right sp paraphrase it for me.

perhaps but luckily we have my scan until we get further examples lol

I can see it now

Storm: Surge, I need help charging this light bulb!

Oh, my I don't even want to think of it. Storm, Iceman, Surge, Magneto, and Wind Dancer on the same team! I think I'm gonna go sulk now, LOL!