Born to an American photo journalist and Kenyan princess, Ororo Munroe is one of the most recognizabe superheroines in the Marvel Universe. Using her unique ability to see and manipulate natural energy patterns of the universe to summon any type of weather phenomenon she desires in the blink of an eye, she is called Storm.
We've have debates many times with fans and those who are not so much about her power as it measures up to Omega level mutants, and even if she is a goddess or not. CBR must be reading our back and forth discussions as they compiled a list of the times she has been the strongest xmen. I wont spoil anything but you may be surprised with what you find.
Completely serious answer though, I literally cannot think of a single time beyond Giant Size X-Men, BEFORE they find the Old X-Men
Storm usually shares a roster with either Jean, Iceman or a member of the Summers family such as Racheal.
yup it's very impressive ororo js being recognized for the true powerhouse she is.
Discounting powerups, the thing is, 80% of the time she shares a roster with either a Phoenix force host, a completely bonkers telepath (like Nate or something) or another "god" in the God of Ice. The rest of the time its randoms like Juggernaut, Magik or even Magneto one time that would prevent her from taking a definitive number 1 spot
She would rank second, or tied for first in a lot more than #1. I think you could at least argue she splits with non-phoenix Jean, although thats not my personal opinion, which does make her TIED for first on several rosters.
Completely serious answer though, I literally cannot think of a single time beyond Giant Size X-Men, BEFORE they find the Old X-Men
Storm usually shares a roster with either Jean, Iceman or a member of the Summers family such as Racheal.
yup it's very impressive ororo js being recognized for the true powerhouse she is.
Discounting powerups, the thing is, 80% of the time she shares a roster with either a Phoenix force host, an Omega Level Telepath (like Nate or something) or another "god" in the God of Ice. The rest of the time its randoms like Juggernaut, Magik or even Magneto one time that would prevent her from taking a definitive number 1 spot
She would rank second, or tied for first in a lot more than #1. I think you could at least argue she splits with non-phoenix Jean, although thats not my personal opinion, which does make her TIED for first on several rosters.
1. Well that's the interesting thing. Ororo often times is holding back and not really tapping into her true power. For instance, Ororo has being called more powerful than Jean (non-phoenix) before:
And most recently Ororo was the only xman capable of hurting X-legion, where Jean (who professes that the Phoenix was holding her back) and Iceman:
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Jean wasnt able to do a thing against X-legion alone. Also you have to keep in mind jean was given Phoenix to put her on the level of Ororo. Ckaremont revealed that years ago.
@butterflykyss: Im not even going to comment on modern X-Men because I honestly have no idea, but
1) When is Darkstar an authority on X-Men? Furthermore, holding her own against Jean, Cable and Storm is an obnoxiously high showing for Darkstar to the point where it makes me question things
And most recently Ororo was the only xman capable of hurting X-legion, where Jean (who professes that the Phoenix was holding her back) and Iceman:
That's not true. Jean also managed to overwhelm Nate's mind with the pain he gave to people around the world. On top of that, Nate was confused when Ororo stroke him and it didn't cause damage whatsoever.
@butterflykyss: Im not even going to comment on modern X-Men because I honestly have no idea, but
1) When is Darkstar an authority on X-Men? Furthermore, holding her own against Jean, Cable and Storm is an obnoxiously high showing for Darkstar to the point where it makes me question things
2) When did Claremont say that? Ever?
1. The Xmen arent obscure people within the marvel universe. They are well known heroes as is Jean. Also, Ororo has many feats that one could argue makes her stronger than Jean so Darkstar making that comment shouldnt be so questionable considering this.
2. He mentioned this many years ago in an interview:
And most recently Ororo was the only xman capable of hurting X-legion, where Jean (who professes that the Phoenix was holding her back) and Iceman:
That's not true. Jean also managed to overwhelm Nate's mind with the pain he gave to people around the world. On top of that, Nate was confused when Ororo stroke him and it didn't cause damage whatsoever.
Actually you are incorrect. The xmen were having a hard time against x-man and this only got worse when he merged with Legion. In fact X-legion dunked Jean as if she was nothing more than a ragdoll.
After that Ororo became a horseman and the xmen stated she was destroying them :
It was only until the xmen released X-legion's hold on Ororo that she was able to stun X-legion and allow the telepaths to enter his mind. Without Ororo this would not have happened:
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Ororo was able to hurt both the combined might of legion and xman. Jean only caused Xman harm after he was separated from Legion. So there's a difference there.
And most recently Ororo was the only xman capable of hurting X-legion, where Jean (who professes that the Phoenix was holding her back) and Iceman:
That's not true. Jean also managed to overwhelm Nate's mind with the pain he gave to people around the world. On top of that, Nate was confused when Ororo stroke him and it didn't cause damage whatsoever.
There are several problems with your assertions:
1) Jean plus seven other telepaths couldn't do squat to X-Legion until Ororo broke through his shields and hurt him, thus shattering his concentration enabling the telepathic brigade to attack him.
2) Nate ALLOWED Jean to open his mind to the pain he was causing. He was not trying to fight her or stop her. He merely gave her the opportunity to try and prove her point. This was not a psi-fight instance. We know from earlier that she was nothing compared to him in power as she couldn't even touch him even with seven other telepaths helping her until Storm got mad and did her thing.
3) Jean is much weaker without the PF, and she acknowledges this as well as her much weaker power levels when she's not possessed by the cosmic Tweety Bird.
Jean getting beaten by X-Legion isn't an anti-feat and doesn't make Storm above her. It doesn't matter whether Storm damaged fusion of X-Man and Legion or just solely X-Man as both characters have a low-tier durability which didn't increase even after they combined powers. I mean, briefly incapacitating Legion is a thing Iceman achieved 25 years ago in X-Men #41. Furthermore, X-Legion got confused before she stunned him as I stated above and Storm's horseman power boost was still active, so this feat logically shouldn't apply to her base level. In comparsion of this instance, if you really want to, I can provide tons of evidence to suggest full power Jean and Iceman would both flat out one-shot Storm.
Jean getting beaten by X-Legion isn't an anti-feat and doesn't make Storm above her. It doesn't matter whether Storm damaged fusion of X-Man and Legion or just solely X-Man as both characters have a low-tier durability which didn't increase even after they combined powers. I mean, briefly incapacitating Legion is a thing Iceman achieved 25 years ago in X-Men #41. Furthermore, X-Legion got confused before she stunned him as I stated above and Storm's horseman power boost was still active, so this feat logically shouldn't apply to her base level. In comparsion of this instance, if you really want to, I can provide tons of evidence to suggest full power Jean and Iceman would both flat out one-shot Storm.
It most certainly does make Ororo above Jean in this particular instance. Jean was unable to do something Ororo managed to do. In regards to their durability not increasing once merged where did it say that in the story? The complete opposite of what you described occurred in the story after they merged as evident by the need of several telepaths to breach their mind. And this story wasnt a battle solely against legion so what iceman did there is irrelevant. The story was about the xmen trying to overcome the combined power of legion and xman. When Ororo attacked x-legion she was no longer a horseman and there was no indication that he boosted their power in anyway once they became horseman. But even it they did when she attacked x-legion and hurt them she was no longer a horseman so what you are saying doesnt align to the story.
And this thread is about Ororo being more powerful. if u can provide examples from the uncanny issue of discussion that prove they were more powerful than ororo I would gladly accept some examples but seeing that jean nor iceman were able to do squat against x-legion you will have a hard time making that point.
And most recently Ororo was the only xman capable of hurting X-legion, where Jean (who professes that the Phoenix was holding her back) and Iceman:
That's not true. Jean also managed to overwhelm Nate's mind with the pain he gave to people around the world. On top of that, Nate was confused when Ororo stroke him and it didn't cause damage whatsoever.
There are several problems with your assertions:
1) Jean plus seven other telepaths couldn't do squat to X-Legion until Ororo broke through his shields and hurt him, thus shattering his concentration enabling the telepathic brigade to attack him.
2) Nate ALLOWED Jean to open his mind to the pain he was causing. He was not trying to fight her or stop her. He merely gave her the opportunity to try and prove her point. This was not a psi-fight instance. We know from earlier that she was nothing compared to him in power as she couldn't even touch him even with seven other telepaths helping her until Storm got mad and did her thing.
3) Jean is much weaker without the PF, and she acknowledges this as well as her much weaker power levels when she's not possessed by the cosmic Tweety Bird.
It most certainly does make Ororo above Jean in this particular instance. Jean was unable to do something Ororo managed to do. In regards to their durability not increasing once merged where did it say that in the story? The complete opposite of what you described occurred in the story after they merged as evident by the need of several telepaths to breach their mind. And this story wasnt a battle solely against legion so what iceman did there is irrelevant. The story was about the xmen trying to overcome the combined power of legion and xman. When Ororo attacked x-legion she was no longer a horseman and there was no indication that he boosted their power in anyway once they became horseman. But even it they did when she attacked x-legion and hurt them she was no longer a horseman so what you are saying doesnt align to the story.
Ehh, not really. It was pretty obvious that Nate was holding back in every single fight he had otherwise he would've vaporized everyone with a single blast as he did in the end. Jean and Storm both managed to briefly damage off-guard Nate who either intentionally let Storm to hit him or just got confused. The conclusion we got from these feats is thatboth character dished out same caliber feat on Nate who was deliberately allowing them to attack. Claiming that Jean is below Storm because of this one and only instance is pretty weak argument. For example, here's Storm with the aid of Bishop being incapable of damaging Apocalypse while Jean casually ragdolled and overpowered him.
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To make it even more evident, the writer of the issue himself said that Jean was strongest X-Men on the field. So, yeah, this instance doesn't make Ororo above Jean. You either get it or not. Moreover, Legion and X-Man indeed combined powers but their fragile durability still remained same. There's absolutely nothing to contradict this. In all honesty, if Iceman didn't have damned mental inhibitor thing he could've one-shotted X-Legion same way he did in X-Men Vol.2 #41 when his subconscious barriers got lowered by time travel :
The point I was trying to make in my previous post which you didn't seem to get was Legion's durability didn't increase when he merged with Nate and Iceman could've pulled same molecular-level-freezing trick on him like he did in aforementioned scan. As for horseman power boost, I can certainly say that it augmented their powers. I mean, Omega Red and Blob were taking on characters like Jean, Apocalypse, Polaris, Cannonball, Colossus, etc. and there's no implication of Storm losing power boost afterwards.
And this thread is about Ororo being more powerful. if u can provide examples from the uncanny issue of discussion that prove they were more powerful than ororo I would gladly accept some examples but seeing that jean nor iceman were able to do squat against x-legion you will have a hard time making that point.
Iceman when not restricted has achieved to freeze beings such as Celestial Prosh, Stranger, Thor and Exterminators. In Astonishing X-Men Vol.3 #62, after unlocking his full potential, Iceman literally played with Earth's ecosystem. Yet Storm was unable to undo devastating damage Bobby caused to planet. Jean has been able to shield herself from white hole, ragdoll Apocalypse (a feat Storm couldn't replicate), punch out Galactus and is consistently portrayed as superior to likes of Emma and Xavier.
All in all, if Jean or Iceman faced Storm at their full power without plot-based restrictions, they would flat out one-shot her.
@aqualion0: Ya'll love saying Storm was unable to do anything about what Iceman was doing to the ecosystem like she was even in the damn story .. honey just say you're not going to give the character credit where its due and run along. But then again .. I remember you and your "storm wankers" commentary in the Storm vs Iceman thread so .. I can't say I'm surprised.
Ehh, not really. It was pretty obvious that Nate was holding back in every single fight he had otherwise he would've vaporized everyone with a single blast as he did in the end. Jean and Storm both managed to briefly damage off-guard Nate who either intentionally let Storm to hit him or just got confused. The conclusion we got from these feats is thatboth character dished out same caliber feat on Nate who was deliberately allowing them to attack. Claiming that Jean is below Storm because of this one and only instance is pretty weak argument. For example, here's Storm with the aid of Bishop being incapable of damaging Apocalypse while Jean casually ragdolled and overpowered him.
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Are you certain Nate was holding back in every single fight he had?
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And where in the story did it state X-Legion was confused and that is how Ororo was able to hurt him? In all the chaos and confusion on the battlefield X-legion never was caught of off guard to the point any of the xmen could hurt him so what was it about Ororo that made it different? The only difference is that she was powerful enough to actually hurt him where the others including Jean and Iceman were not. To you point about Appcalypse, Ororo didny hit him with the lightning she struck and even if she had done so this issue already demonstrated ororo can modify the intensity of her bolts. She gave Magneto a warning shot which he tanked, then she shot him another time with a stronger bolt which he was unable to absorb. The point is, prove Ororo didny him with a weaker bolt in the scan you posted with apocalypse (even though the bolt never touched him).
To make it even more evident, the writer of the issue himself said that Jean was strongest X-Men on the field. So, yeah, this instance doesn't make Ororo above Jean. You either get it or not. Moreover, Legion and X-Man indeed combined powers but their fragile durability still remained same. There's absolutely nothing to contradict this. In all honesty, if Iceman didn't have damned mental inhibitor thing he could've one-shotted X-Legion same way he did in X-Men Vol.2 #41 when his subconscious barriers got lowered by time travel :
The writer said that on twitter to calm down a rabid fanbase that attacks him anytime he doesnt say jean is the best character over all characters ever to be created and that will be created. He even had to cave in to them about Jean being a stronger telepath than Xavier even though the story showed otherwise when Xavier mind wiped Jean easily. Bottom line it was said to get those fans off his back. The story obviously demonstrates otherwise. Iceman is non-factor. There are already a canonical instance where Ororo was described as more dangerous than Iceman:
Also what iceman did to legion doesnt mean he could do the same to a being with the power of two omega level mutants.. That scan you posted doesnt prove anything.
The point I was trying to make in my previous post which you didn't seem to get was Legion's durability didn't increase when he merged with Nate and Iceman could've pulled same molecular-level-freezing trick on him like he did in aforementioned scan. As for horseman power boost, I can certainly say that it augmented their powers. I mean, Omega Red and Blob were taking on characters like Jean, Apocalypse, Polaris, Cannonball, Colossus, etc. and there's no implication of Storm losing power boost afterwards.
Iceman when not restricted has achieved to freeze beings such as Celestial Prosh, Stranger, Thor and Exterminators. In Astonishing X-Men Vol.3 #62, after unlocking his full potential, Iceman literally played with Earth's ecosystem. Yet Storm was unable to undo devastating damage Bobby caused to planet. Jean has been able to shield herself from white hole, ragdoll Apocalypse (a feat Storm couldn't replicate), punch out Galactus and is consistently portrayed as superior to likes of Emma and Xavier.
All in all, if Jean or Iceman faced Storm at their full power without plot-based restrictions, they would flat out one-shot her.
Prove his durability didnt increase when they merged. Ororo as a horseman didnt do anything she couldnt do as her case character. What powers did she display that indicated she had a boost in power? Also when she reverted back to her normal outfit that would indicate any power boost she got as a horseman was gone.
The full potential argument means nothing either. Ororo always holds back and it has been a part of her storyline since the early Claremont days in the 70s/80s. Also keep in mind Ororo is a real goddess now. Iceman doesnt have anything on that. And your last statement cant be supported by anything in canon especially when Ororo has one shotted or beat them when she wasnt even in full power.
@aqualion0: Ya'll love saying Storm was unable to do anything about what Iceman was doing to the ecosystem like she was even in the damn story .. honey just say you're not going to give the character credit where its due and run along. But then again .. I remember you and your "storm wankers" commentary in the Storm vs Iceman thread so .. I can't say I'm surprised.
Are you certain Nate was holding back in every single fight he had?
Yes, it's blatantly obvious that Nate was toying with X-Men the whole time. Madrox's clone was the only opponent he actually killed. Coincidentally, second and third scans also prove my point as Nate could have literally vaporized Cannonball but instead, he decided to casually knock him away.
And where in the story did it state X-Legion was confused and that is how Ororo was able to hurt him? In all the chaos and confusion on the battlefield X-legion never was caught of off guard to the point any of the xmen could hurt him so what was it about Ororo that made it different?
What do you mean? Why would we need statement for that? Panel clearly shows how X-Legion got confused when Storm started talking to him. Albeit, he reacted to Storm, he was still unable shield up or defend himself in time. Here's better look right before X-Legion got struck by lightning :
As I said above Jean giving unguarded Nate world's pain is same caliber feat regardless of how much you try to misinterpret. Much like Storm, Jean had only one chance to attack Nate and she perfectly used given opportunity.
The only difference is that she was powerful enough to actually hurt him where the others including Jean and Iceman were not.
Well, I don't agree at all. Storm didn't hurt X-Legion, she briefly dazed him and gave telepaths enough time to invade his mind. I'm also gonna reiterate that Iceman already managed to freeze Legion at molecular level who had same level durability as X-Legion. If not his mental inhibitors, Bobby could have faired much better in the battle.
To you point about Appcalypse, Ororo didny hit him with the lightning she struck and even if she had done so this issue already demonstrated ororo can modify the intensity of her bolts. She gave Magneto a warning shot which he tanked, then she shot him another time with a stronger bolt which he was unable to absorb. The point is, prove Ororo didny him with a weaker bolt in the scan you posted with apocalypse
What you are actually implying is nonsensical. Ororo literally hit Apocalypse with everything she got but couldn't even slightly stagger him while Jean forced him to eat rocks. Moreover, there's no reason to think that she wasn't going all out. For the record, Apocalypse has soloed Storm along with her fellow teammates under 60 seconds and I'm pretty sure Storm isn't dumb enough to hold back against powerful threat like him. Your point doesn't make any sense and your arguments are all totally flawed.
(even though the bolt never touched him).
You need me to breakdown, examine and crop every single feat? Lmao.
The writer said that on twitter to calm down a rabid fanbase that attacks him anytime he doesnt say jean is the best character over all characters ever to be created and that will be created. He even had to cave in to them about Jean being a stronger telepath than Xavier even though the story showed otherwise when Xavier mind wiped Jean easily. Bottom line it was said to get those fans off his back.
Stormwanker talking about other fanbases. Irony is real.
The story obviously demonstrates otherwise. Iceman is non-factor. There are already a canonical instance where Ororo was described as more dangerous than Iceman:
I'll just shamelessly copy myself - ''Bobby's physiology, powers, etc. depends on his subconscious barriers. He isn't always operating on omega level because he wants to remain his humanity otherwise we would get literal omnipresent god. I mean, just look at X-Men #41 where he froze Legion at molecular level. However, before that encounter he was just spamming ice blasts instead of using his cyrokinesis in more complex ways. It happened because mental restrains regarding his powers were fallen. Writers tend to nerf and forget many things about Bobby's potential but all of this is easily explained with his fear of losing humanity.''
I think it pretty much explains why Iceman can't do jack shit in most fights. As for Ororo being described as the most dangerous member out of X-Men, it comes from freaking Spider-Man who hasn't seen full extent of their capabilities. Mind you, this is what happened when Black Order attacked X-Mansion in New Avengers Vol.3 #9 and Supergiant tried to take control over X-Men.
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Iceman was labeled as the only real danger while Storm and others were considered as fodder. Supergiant is a psyche, so logically she's more credible than Spider-Man.
Also what iceman did to legion doesnt mean he could do the same to a being with the power of two omega level mutants.. That scan you posted doesnt prove anything. Prove his durability didnt increase when they merged.
I'm not the one who has to prove anything. Nate never had superhuman durability to begin with. Merging powers with Legion doesn't mean he also augmented his durability. Believe it or not, what Iceman did to Legion was much more impressive compared to Storm's feat.
Ororo as a horseman didnt do anything she couldnt do as her case character. What powers did she display that indicated she had a boost in power?
Touche. I already stated how mid-tier jobbers like Blob and Omega Red were taking on characters out of their league. Storm didn't really display anything new but that doesn't mean she wasn't amped.
Also when she reverted back to her normal outfit that would indicate any power boost she got as a horseman was gone.
Your own headcanon. Nate was boosting their powers with Life Seed which has long-lasting effects.
The full potential argument means nothing either. Ororo always holds back and it has been a part of her storyline since the early Claremont days in the 70s/80s. Also keep in mind Ororo is a real goddess now. Iceman doesnt have anything on that. And your last statement cant be supported by anything in canon especially when Ororo has one shotted or beat them when she wasnt even in full power.
1) The instance with Jean and Galactus doesn't count. Galactus was PIS'd so bad there as he literally sleeps in the core of stars in some stories and he has the power to destroy the universe in other stories. There was not enough ambient psionic energy on that planet to even scratch an itch when Jean kicked him without devaluing him greatly.
2) Iceman vs. Stranger doesn't count either as the Stranger was PIS'd to prop up Bobby. Iceman's ability to remove heat and shape moisture shouldn't have been able to affect Stranger given his power over the power cosmic exceeds Silver Surfer's. Stranger has control over matter at the sub-atomic level which completely uppercuts Bobby's powerset.
3) If Storm, Jean, and Bobby were bloodlusted and Ororo were pitted against either of them, she would stomp them. Heck, she could one-shot either of them.
4) X-Legion was not caught off-guard by Ororo. She let him know she was going to attack him before she unleashed her attack. Psis can activate their power at the speed of thought, so he had plenty of time to shield himself before she blasted him. Deal with it.
Yes, it's blatantly obvious that Nate was toying with X-Men the whole time. Madrox's clone was the only opponent he actually killed. Coincidentally, second and third scans also prove my point as Nate could have literally vaporized Cannonball but instead, he decided to casually knock him away.
He was toying with them yet JEAN nor ICEMAN could do nothing to hurt X-legion yet Ororo was. Also you said he was holding back every single time. Clearly you was incorrect with that statement. no need to move the goalpost now that I proved instances of him not holding back.
What do you mean? Why would we need statement for that? Panel clearly shows how X-Legion got confused when Storm started talking to him. Albeit, he reacted to Storm, he was still unable shield up or defend himself in time. Here's better look right before X-Legion got struck by lightning :
As I said above Jean giving unguarded Nate world's pain is same caliber feat regardless of how much you try to misinterpret. Much like Storm, Jean had only one chance to attack Nate and she perfectly used given opportunity.
You are really underestimating two merged omega level mutants. Whether he was confused or not why would that matter? He was fighting off all the xmen, Ororo flying above him is not going to confuse him and if it did it would no way affect his durability. Nate allowed Jean to show her the pain she felt AFTER he was separated from Legion. Impressive yes but not as impressive as what Ororo was able to do.
Well, I don't agree at all. Storm didn't hurt X-Legion, she briefly dazed him and gave telepaths enough time to invade his mind. I'm also gonna reiterate that Iceman already managed to freeze Legion at molecular level who had same level durability as X-Legion. If not his mental inhibitors, Bobby could have faired much better in the battle.
What you are actually implying is nonsensical. Ororo literally hit Apocalypse with everything she got but couldn't even slightly stagger him while Jean forced him to eat rocks. Moreover, there's no reason to think that she wasn't going all out. For the record, Apocalypse has soloed Storm along with her fellow teammates under 60 seconds and I'm pretty sure Storm isn't dumb enough to hold back against powerful threat like him. Your point doesn't make any sense and your arguments are all totally flawed.
Whatever you want to call it daze, hurt, stunned does not matter as Ororo was the only one capable of doing it. Icdnan couldnt nor could Jean. And who cares what Iceman did to legion, iceman was ineffective against the power of two merged omega level mutants.
What scan are you looking at again? the one scan you posted showed her shooting lightning and completely missing him. I know you dont like the fact Ororo upstaged iceman but no need to make up stuff not on the panel to make a point. Also Ororo always holds back. She even did so when she Magneto to stand down before shooting him with an even stronger bolt of lightning.
My points dont make sense to you because it contradicts your inaccurate statement that Ororo was ineffectual against x-legion because it would then demonstrate her being stronger than Jean and iceman.
You need me to breakdown, examine and crop every single feat? Lmao.
Stormwanker talking about other fanbases. Irony is real.
I'll just shamelessly copy myself - ''Bobby's physiology, powers, etc. depends on his subconscious barriers. He isn't always operating on omega level because he wants to remain his humanity otherwise we would get literal omnipresent god. I mean, just look at X-Men #41 where he froze Legion at molecular level. However, before that encounter he was just spamming ice blasts instead of using his cyrokinesis in more complex ways. It happened because mental restrains regarding his powers were fallen. Writers tend to nerf and forget many things about Bobby's potential but all of this is easily explained with his fear of losing humanity.''
I think it pretty much explains why Iceman can't do jack shit in most fights. As for Ororo being described as the most dangerous member out of X-Men, it comes from freaking Spider-Man who hasn't seen full extent of their capabilities. Mind you, this is what happened when Black Order attacked X-Mansion in New Avengers Vol.3 #9 and Supergiant tried to take control over X-Men.
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Iceman was labeled as the only real danger while Storm and others were considered as fodder. Supergiant is a psyche, so logically she's more credible than Spider-Man.
No need my friend because you have been doing a poor job of explaining scans that clearly contradict your claims. And you can call me a stormwanker or whatever loving adjective you want but I've never harassed a writer on social media because my character was shown not being the best there is at everything.
All that stuff about iceman is irrelevant. Even with all his power whether he was holding back or not he was not able to do a thing against X-legion. To the scan about spiderman that was actually doctor Oct in spidermans body. Hes a villain and a pretty dang smart one who studies his opponents. Him making that statement aligns to her feats in canon.
Now to the mutates scan. It's funny you bring that up because he took control of Icemans mind but Ororo easily broke free from being froze and dropped him with a single lightning bolt:
I'm not the one who has to prove anything. Nate never had superhuman durability to begin with. Merging powers with Legion doesn't mean he also augmented his durability. Believe it or not, what Iceman did to Legion was much more impressive compared to Storm's feat.
Touche. I already stated how mid-tier jobbers like Blob and Omega Red were taking on characters out of their league. Storm didn't really display anything new but that doesn't mean she wasn't amped.
Your own headcanon. Nate was boosting their powers with Life Seed which has long-lasting effects.
You do know about Legion psi-shields? Right?
Now merge that power to x-man with the life seed. Ororo being able to even daze Legion/x-man is a testament to her power whether you accept it or not.
And thank you she absolutely didnt do anything new or different. She shot lightning and created a wind tunnel. She has done way more impressive showings than that within the time of being a hero.
And just stop with life seed thing lol. the only person that affected is Nate. He is the one who possesses it. Just like when Iceman was amped by the death seed. Him using the power on the xmen in no way mean they are also affected in the way he is. That is something you are making up to discount the power of the Hadari Yao.
I don't know how anyone can look at the scan of Ororo blasting X-Legion and say he was merely dazed. She clearly hurt him through his shields. Obviously his shields were strong enough to block out most of the force of her attack, hence he was still conscious afterwards, but she tagged him, and it hurt. That's the only reason Jean plus a bunch of other telepaths were finally able to do squat to him.
I'm quite busy to debunk your nonsense, so I'll get straight to the main points.
A.) Ororo was amped with Life Seed when she stroke Nate. Getting freed her mind out of Nate's control doesn't prove she lost it afterwards. For more proof, in Astonishing X-Men #64, Iceman was able to give Mystique portion of his powers which she later used to impale Thor. Moreover, Nate was definitely giving his horsemen power boost as shown in here :
Even if we ignore everything I said, explain how the hell Omega Red and Blob managed to take on Apocalypse, Polaris, Psylocke and other powerful mutants at the same time?
B.) What keeps Iceman from his full potential is mental inhibitors or whatever you want to call his subconscious barriers. He already incaped Legion much longer than Storm did. I know what you're going to say now, Nate and Legion merged powers therefore their durability should've been increased as well, right? Nope. Nate doesn't have superhuman durability and X-Legion didn't have auto psi-shields during that time as he kept using force field bubbles to block attacks.
Bobby froze Legion when Legion had active psi shields, amped Ororo stroke him with lightning when he didn't possess any. In layman's terms, Bobby's feat is leagues above. By the way, speaking of lightning bolts, here we have scan of Jean casually blocking all out attack from Storm along with hounds.
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So, needless to say, this feat doesn't make Storm above Jean and Iceman.
I can't even blame people at this point for thinking a simple lightning blast is Storm going all out... marvel has turned her into lightning and occasionally wind lass.
I can't even blame people at this point for thinking a simple lightning blast is Storm going all out... marvel has turned her into lightning and occasionally wind lass.
I'm quite busy to debunk your nonsense, so I'll get straight to the main points.
A.) Ororo was amped with Life Seed when she stroke Nate. Getting freed her mind out of Nate's control doesn't prove she lost it afterwards. For more proof, in Astonishing X-Men #64, Iceman was able to give Mystique portion of his powers which she later used to impale Thor. Moreover, Nate was definitely giving his horsemen power boost as shown in here :
Even if we ignore everything I said, explain how the hell Omega Red and Blob managed to take on Apocalypse, Polaris, Psylocke and other powerful mutants at the same time?
B.) What keeps Iceman from his full potential is mental inhibitors or whatever you want to call his subconscious barriers. He already incaped Legion much longer than Storm did. I know what you're going to say now, Nate and Legion merged powers therefore their durability should've been increased as well, right? Nope. Nate doesn't have superhuman durability and X-Legion didn't have auto psi-shields during that time as he kept using force field bubbles to block attacks.
Bobby froze Legion when Legion had active psi shields, amped Ororo stroke him with lightning when he didn't possess any. In layman's terms, Bobby's feat is leagues above. By the way, speaking of lightning bolts, here we have scan of Jean casually blocking all out attack from Storm along with hounds.
Gallery
So, needless to say, this feat doesn't make Storm above Jean and Iceman.
1. Quite busy yet you are responding with this lengthy post?
Yea let's ignore everything you said because my ORIGINAL point was that Ororo (without being a horseman) hurt, stunned, X-Legion when Iceman and Jean with several of the world's top telepaths could not. What Iceman did to Mystique is irrelevant here so I think ignoring all of what you mentioned about that is a great suggestion..
2. You do realize your post shows Bobby not even attempting to do one thing against X-legion right? If Bobby could have effectually taken X-Legion I'm most certain it would have been shown to some degree but the most he is seen doing is getting his arse handed to him by X-Legions horsemen.
3. Why do you keep bringing up Iceman hurting Legion as if he is the only one who has done it. Ororo has down him as well:
The difference between the two is Ororo has hurt two combined super powerful Omegas. Iceman cant say the same now can he?
And you think that is Ororo going all out??? Lolol uhm no. Jean has succumbed to Ororo's power before:
Ororo wasnt even focusing her attack on Jean above.
again Ororo not focusing her power against Jean and her shields can barely protect her. So please stop while you are ahead.
Quite busy yet you are responding with this lengthy post?
As if I wrote CaV worthy post. By the way, I have many things to do in my personal life instead of wasting time with damned Storm fanbase.
Yea let's ignore everything you said because my ORIGINAL point was that Ororo (without being a horseman) hurt, stunned, X-Legion when Iceman and Jean with several of the world's top telepaths could not. What Iceman did to Mystique is irrelevant here so I think ignoring all of what you mentioned about that is a great suggestion..
And again, I'm gonna reiterate that Storm was amped when she stroke X-Legion. Nate was boosting powers of his horsemen with Life Seed which isn't uncommon as showcased when Death Seed influenced Iceman allowed Mystique to gain portion of his powers. Storm losing her horsemen outfit doesn't indicate decrease of power boost considering Death/Life seeds have long lasting effects.
You do realize your post shows Bobby not even attempting to do one thing against X-legion right? If Bobby could have effectually taken X-Legion I'm most certain it would have been shown to some degree but the most he is seen doing is getting his arse handed to him by X-Legions horsemen.
I already explained why Bobby couldn't do jack shit to Nate and X-Legion. That's because of his subconscious barriers. If he didn't have that he could've coordinated at much more higher level against any opponent he faced. The way you're trying to completely ignore everything I have proved with phyiscal evidence is getting annoying.
The difference between the two is Ororo has hurt two combined super powerful Omegas. Iceman cant say the same now can he?
Is there any proof of X-Legion's durability increase after he merged powers with Nate? No. Is there any proof of X-Legion not using active psi shields during Disassembled? Yes. Iceman froze Legion through his TK shields, Storm just caught him off-guard. There's astronomical difference between these things.
And you think that is Ororo going all out??? Lolol uhm no.
Ororo had no reason to hold back as she was mind-controlled when she unleashed lightning on Jean.
Jean has succumbed to Ororo's power before. Ororo wasnt even focusing her attack on Jean above.
This is what we call PIS. I mean, even Bishop is roaming in the wind without harm.
again Ororo not focusing her power against Jean and her shields can barely protect her. So please stop while you are ahead.
No, it wasn't Ororo who gave Jean struggle. IT WAS BROKEN PIECES OF GLASS.
Okay, you need to learn when you've been shut down.
First of all, in the instance Butterflykyss was referring to where Storm hurt Legion, Ororo was able to make him retreat from battle to heal his wounds:
So, Storm's attack defeated Legion, Bobby's did not.
Secondly, in the other scan Kyss provided where the shards of glass nearly shattered Jean's shields (she could barely hold it out), keep in mind the glass was being hurled by the force of Storm's lightning bolts. So, yeah, the glass was coming in with tremendous force. Now, just think how much more devastating the attack would've been if Storm were targeting Jean specifically with her bolts instead of the glass!!! Storm's Lightning>>>>>>>Glass
Storm has always been able to hurl weak objects with tremendous force.
Here, she summons winds strong enough to send straw through armored plate: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/vfiaKt2V-YAZQ8pDrskOk-77nxvkxNdzTHG5iqLw6shR8nRxJ5VksrfjywzmfTBXn6r5pFGxaQu5=s1600
Here, Emma fears Storm could hurl a metal rod with enough force to shatter her diamond form:
Interestingly enough, Jean has always been a joke compared to Legion everytime they faced each other.
Here, Jean hides in the background behind Storm, egging Storm on to fight: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/u-V9hOinsZH4scSYzePjA8ow4niW11tDs7k1OBWWDuiGM4OJb7pBTQksNjgHZcIZGjV0N7k9nX_e=s1600
Here, BOBBY and Betsy admit they are useless in the fight and can only stand clear while Storm fights: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/suBGJypc0Y5Dq1LkRiDJSO00r-RkKvt47_Q3duRYTTVpDXTV3fkVcFWx56ZhUHq9P3uWRYT_aq1-=s1600
Notice in this scan that Jean can barely withstand Storm's winds, and this is when Ororo's winds are focused on Legion. So Jean is only getting a taste of what Storm is actually dishing out.
Also, note how Jean even asks Bishop in this scan to do something while she cowers behind her TK shield.
So, why is Jean not fighting at all? Because she is too scared of Legion to even attempt an attack on him: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Jll8xGJOLbyHt0n7RIhHLoTE4zc3OphhCJGBNEreDdI0mVrEsL-XlTmA9gcPsq2lgTio_QdTcSQI=s1600
And again, I'm gonna reiterate that Storm was amped when she stroke X-Legion. Nate was boosting powers of his horsemen with Life Seed which isn't uncommon as showcased when Death Seed influenced Iceman allowed Mystique to gain portion of his powers. Storm losing her horsemen outfit doesn't indicate decrease of power boost considering Death/Life seeds have long lasting effects.
She wasn't amped. You make every excuse in the world for why iceman couldnt do squat talking about mental inhibitors, which is never implied or shown but when it is clearly shown that ororo has broken free from x-legion you credit it to the life seed lol. let me inform you the reason she was able to hurt the two of them is because she is a goddess. the writers of the story already confirmed this on their Twitter accounts.
I already explained why Bobby couldn't do jack shit to Nate and X-Legion. That's because of his subconscious barriers. If he didn't have that he could've coordinated at much more higher level against any opponent he faced. The way you're trying to completely ignore everything I have proved with phyiscal evidence is getting annoying.
iceman couldnt do anything because he didnt have the power to simple as that. Point to anywhere in the story where it said his subconscious barriers kept him from fighting x-legion in the uncanny story at hand. and you really cant talk about people ignoring anything when you are ignoring clear scans from the issue.
Is there any proof of X-Legion's durability increase after he merged powers with Nate? No. Is there any proof of X-Legion not using active psi shields during Disassembled? Yes. Iceman froze Legion through his TK shields, Storm just caught him off-guard. There's astronomical difference between these things.
Ororo had no reason to hold back as she was mind-controlled when she unleashed lightning on Jean.
What is it about two omega level mutants being merged together made Nate more dangerous do you not understand. Whatever Iceman could do to Legion is irrelevant because its not just legion anymore its Nate plus legion. Iceman even acknowledge what you choose to ignore when he sarcastically stated them merging together sounds great:
Ororo being mind controlled doesnt mean she isnt fighting back in the background. There are too many instances throughout her history showing her do this so making the point isnt valid. Look to her battles with shadow king, professor Xavier, Emma frost, the nanny, malice etc if you want proof of what I am claiming.
This is what we call PIS. I mean, even Bishop is roaming in the wind without harm.
No, it wasn't Ororo who gave Jean struggle. IT WAS BROKEN PIECES OF GLASS.
This isn't PIS. This is flat out bullshit.
call it whatever you want Jean could hold herself up against ororo winds and the reason her shield could barely protect her from the glass was because the lightning severely weakened the shield. like you cant be serious? like is your hate that deep you just say whatever you can even when it makes zero sense ?? I really cant believe you said it was broken glass lololol
1) Again, Iceman couldn't even stop Legion without Nate. What chance does he have of doing squat to X-Legion? None! Scans have been provided showing how Legion was able to attack the X-Men after Bobby's attack. On the other hand, when Ororo hit Legion with her power, he had to retreat so he could heal.
2) Agreed with Butterflykyss. Let's also not forget how Storm was able to hold the essence of Eternity within her because of the strength of her will. Also, her mental defenses proved to be too strong for Bogan, a Xavier-level telepath, combined with Rachel. Then we also have her bout with the Warskrull who had the combined psi of Xavier, Psylocke, and Oracle.
3) In the instance where Jean was struggling with an indirect attack from Storm's winds (the brunt of the force of Ororo's attack was focused on Legion), if you'd notice, Bishop was standing next to Jean. It is likely that Jean's TK shield was blocking out enough of the wind around Bishop as well allowing him to stand in them.
4) Kyss brings up another interesting point. While Storm's lightning never touched Jean's shields, the air around them would have been electrified. Also, as I pointed out earlier, the glass was hurled by the force of Storm's lightning attack. I have provided scans of Storm using her powers to hurl fragile objects like straw with tremendous force. Glass is stronger, sharper, and deadlier than straw.
Number 10 says: She fought for the control of the Morlocks.
Number 5 says: She fought Cyclops for Leadership via No Powers.
Number 4 says: She led a War against the Inhumans.
NONE of those are good reasons enough to claim Storm is the most powerful X-Men. I can list a few people who would have done the same thing Storm did if they were in her shoes.
Not only that, but the article got the galactic core feat wrong. Storm summoned the full power of the galactic core, not the energy out of the core of the space ship. That was a HUGE miss.
The article also didn't mention other feats like her blanketing the entire planet with a global solar wind for four hours while maintaining enough control to not do any damage. Then she did away with a hemisphere-sized hurricane with a wave of her hands. Lets also not forget how she pulled gamma rays out of a gamma ray gun and fused the radiation with the energies of the world to create an elemental shield around the planet that deflected a world-wrecking blast from the sun. Then there was also the Trion feat.
These should replace numbers 4, 5, and 10 along with the core thing being corrected.
Number 10 says: She fought for the control of the Morlocks.
Number 5 says: She fought Cyclops for Leadership via No Powers.
Number 4 says: She led a War against the Inhumans.
NONE of those are good reasons enough to claim Storm is the most powerful X-Men. I can list a few people who would have done the same thing Storm did if they were in her shoes.
oh I thought u meant the posts and not the lists from the article.
Not only that, but the article got the galactic core feat wrong. Storm summoned the full power of the galactic core, not the energy out of the core of the space ship. That was a HUGE miss.
The article also didn't mention other feats like her blanketing the entire planet with a global solar wind for four hours while maintaining enough control to not do any damage. Then she did away with a hemisphere-sized hurricane with a wave of her hands. Lets also not forget how she pulled gamma rays out of a gamma ray gun and fused the radiation with the energies of the world to create an elemental shield around the planet that deflected a world-wrecking blast from the sun. Then there was also the Trion feat.
These should replace numbers 4, 5, and 10 along with the core thing being corrected.
yea I don't know how the writer thought she channeled the power from the ship. that was probably the biggest thing that stood out to me from the article. that is also a great example. I believe all the global feats should have made an appearance maybe as one entry as follows:
1. in her solo when controlled solar radiation for 4hrs
2.in her solo again when she manipulated the earths magnetic field to allow the sun to burn off a massive wave
3.the shield she created as you mentioned. (cant think of any other fully global moments).
The writer of this article could have done a MUCH better job lol. A lot of holes, incorrect statements and she could’ve chosen better examples.
how would your top 10.times sge was stronger than the xmen look like?
I'd keep:
- The galactic core feat (and accurately describe it :-)...)
- Expand on the faith based power boost to defeat The Advesary
- Defeating Shadow King in such a bad ass way
- Rogue Storm
I'd replace the other examples with:
1. Shielding the planet from the solar flare that would irradiated the planet.
2. Leading her team to defeat Khan's multi-dimension conquering armada. No help could get in from the outside (at least not in time) and her team wouldn't have been able to destabilize that massive star ship to initiate that defeat if not for Storm's tactical thinking and determination.
3. Not only defeating the Trion (on instinct alone) but healing their dimension
4. Hosting the spirit of Eternity while Doc Strange performed (not specifically X-Men though)
5. Containing the baby nuke via her jovian pressure field.
I like your list 100x better beloved!!! honestly I was just so happy that cbr has been showing ororo a lot of love as of late ignored much of the stuff that didnt make sense lol.
@kasya_carey: yes boo we did. ororo being powerful and getting the spotlight got the whole forum shook.
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