@jhazzroucher said:
@drgnx said:
@jhazzroucher said:
@drgnx said:
@jhazzroucher said:
@drgnx said:
@jhazzroucher said:
@drgnx said:
@jhazzroucher said:
@drgnx said:
I missed some of your points
@drgnx said:
@jhazzroucher said:
1. So are you telling me Morbius has more potential to sell well than Storm and Cyclops? I'm not only referring to Morbius but to other characters who have been given their own ongoing and not Storm.
The thing about potential is it means there is room for improvement/growth, since Storm or Cyclops do not have solos, they actually have more potential than anyone who does have a solo... technically speaking.
But those with solos have a higher chance of selling "solos" as long as the titles are out there because you can't sell what isn't there. It is a lot less reliable to make such a statement about team members because it is a lot more difficult to discern what contribution they actually provide. It is actually different in that there is a chance that you you contributing sales rather than driving them like an A-lister should. In other words you're a factor on a team where as you're the factor in a solo.
@jhazzroucher said:
2. I don't disagree with this: "...it is possible to boost sales by being on a team without being an A-lister..."
crap, just realized you said you don't disagree .... My bad ... lol!
If you boost sales by 1 subscriber, you've technically boasted sales, do you think that someone who just increases sales by 1 subscriber should be considered an A-lister? There are people who sell 30000 monthly usa comics via solo's who I still don't think would be considered a -listers, x-men sells in the 160000 range, can you honestly guarantee that over 30000 of those are specifically because of Storm? I'ld also like to entertain your thoughts on how many people buy Wolverine and the X-Men for Storm.
06. Savage Wolverine #1 - 102,530
10. Uncanny X-Force #1 - 86,187
13. All New X-Men #6 - 80,195 … 15. All New X-Men #5 - 76,007
15. All New X-Men #5 - 76,007 … 11. All New X-Men #4 - 80,665
28. Deadpool #4 - 57,061 … 25. Deadpool #3 - 60,215
30. Cable and X-Force #3 - 51,761 … 29. Cable and X-Force #2 - 57,719
37. A Plus X #4 - 48,091 … 32. A Plus X #3 - 56,700
40. Wolverine and the X-Men #24 - 44,716 … 44. Wolverine and the X-Men #23 - 43,963
44. Wolverine and the X-Men #23 - 43,963 ... 45. Wolverine and the X-Men #22 - 45,658
56. X-Men: Legacy #4 - 37,673 … 48. X-Men: Legacy #3 -45,407
58. Deadpool: Killustrated #1 - 36,771
62. X-Men: Legacy #5 - 34,823 … 56. X-Men: Legacy #4 - 37,673
74. X-MEN#40 - 28,515 … 72. X-MEN #39 - 29,326
81. Astonishing X-Men #58 - 25,159 … 82. Astonishing X-Men #57 - 26,263
84. Wolverine Max #3 - 24,058 … 82. Wolverine Max #2 - 27,217
87. Ultimate Comics X-Men #21 - 23,479 … 87. Ultimate Comics X-Men #20 - 24,789
93. X-Factor #250 - 22,521 … 95. X-Factor #249 - 21,211
94. Gambit #8 - 22,396 … 89. Gambit #7 - 23,978
98. First X-Men #5 - 20,111 … 102. First X-Men #4 - 21,930
107. Age of Apocalypse #11 - 18,555 … 105. Age of Apocalypse #10 - 19,337
129. X-Treme X-Men #9 - 15,529 … 122. X-Treme X-Men #8 - 16,536jhazzroucher said:
3. Still, quantity means something and seeing Storm on top on on most number of appearances among female comic characters is always a good thing
Thats all good, point is that don't make you an A-lister...
1. I don't think so. they even gave Gambit, Mystique, Emma Frost, etc , who were members of a team/
In no way, shape, or form does this even address my point. We have already discussed that giving someone a comic does not make them an a -lister: So what relevance does pointing out non-a-listers (or anyone for that matter) have gotten solos make to this discussion? It is an absolute fact that Storm can't sell solos if she does not have one, that was point my post, you can't sell what is not there to sell.
2. and i really meant "i agree".
I pointed this out in edited post which you responded to!
3. Indeed, but Storm and Cyclops are an exception.
Not to be rude, but you're going to have to do better than 1 line answers with no logic, reasoning, or proof, instead of repeating your unsubstantiated, unexplained, or irrelevant claims/responses you seem to be fond of posting: That is how debates normally work.
1. and so you're telling me that marvel thinsk the others that i have mentioned would sell better than Storm that's why they didn't give Storm an ongoing|?
Unfortunately, the following response still applies to the answer you gave to it.
I have already said:
In no way, shape, or form does this even address my point. We have already discussed that giving someone a comic does not make them an a -lister: So what relevance does pointing out non-a-listers (or anyone for that matter) have gotten solos make to this discussion? It is an absolute fact that Storm can't sell solos if she does not have one, that was point my post, you can't sell what is not there to sell.In case you have not noticed, you judge a-listers based on actual performance. Storm does not have a solo, guessing how well she would sell is completely irrelevant to the topic because she does not sell a solo because she has none.
3. appearances and exposure.And I'm 100% sure this pointer of yours was addressed, oh wait it was ...
I have already said:
1. So are you telling me Morbius has more potential to sell well than Storm and Cyclops? I'm not only referring to Morbius but to other characters who have been given their own ongoing and not Storm.
@jhazzroucher said:
The thing about potential is it means there is room for improvement/growth, since Storm or Cyclops do not have solos, they actually have more potential than anyone who does have a solo... technically speaking.
But those with solos have a higher chance of selling "solos" as long as the titles are out there because you can't sell what isn't there. It is a lot less reliable to make such a statement about team members because it is a lot more difficult to discern what contribution they actually provide. It is actually different in that there is a chance that you you contributing sales rather than driving them like an A-lister should. In other words you're a factor on a team where as you're the factor in a solo.
I have already said:
Going strictly on exposure is very erroneous because it is very possible that people who buy her team books do it for other characters. It is also very unlikely someone would specifically refuse to buy the book because she is in it, if they don't care for her character. Despite what I think you're overlooking, it is possible to boost sales by being on a team without being an A-lister, because you might be able to tip some scales even if you don't have enough weight to hold your own.Do you know how they judge a-list actors? It is not by the amount of movies they show up in, it is by their ability to command leading roles and bring in viewers (bankable value), indeed, there are plenty non-a-listers you see popping up everywhere who don't take leading roles but are still noticeable.
1. no it isn't
2. and you're not taking it into consideration.
3. it's different from comic characters cos number of appearances matters
As I said before :
Not to be rude, but you're going to have to do better than 1 line answers with no logic, reasoning, or proof, instead of repeating your unsubstantiated, unexplained, or irrelevant claims/responses you seem to be fond of posting: That is how debates normally work.
For instance
jhazzroucher said:
1. no it isn't
This would normally be a useful answer if you provided and explanation as to why, preferably one that has not already been shot down, it is most definitely usefully if you actually indicate what you were responding to because as I said before: "In no way, shape, or form does this even address my point". There is some called "context" and this response lacks it in spades.
jhazzroucher said:
and you're not taking it into consideration.
This might be a useful response if you actually said "what I'm not taking into consideration and how it effected my argument", also preferably with points that have not already been shot down (as you may or may not have noticed, I'm very fond of quoting responses I've made to your rehashed arguments).
jhazzroucher said:
. it's different from comic characters cos number of appearances matters
I'm assuming your talking about the a-list actor comparison on which point I'll confess your complete lack of explanation as to why they are different is so convincing...that do you don't have a reason other than you want it to be so. Appearances do matter, especially in solos..wanna guess what Storm does not have?
Hint:
A solo and a spot on the a-list.Want to know why I know you don't have a good reason?
Because I addressed your only attempt at making a point several times already
I have already said:
But those with solos have a higher chance of selling "solos" as long as the titles are out there because you can't sell what isn't there. It is a lot less reliable to make such a statement about team members because it is a lot more difficult to discern what contribution they actually provide. It is actually different in that there is a chance that you you contributing sales rather than driving them like an A-lister should. In other words you're a factor on a team where as you're the factor in a solo.
I have already said:
Going strictly on exposure is very erroneous because it is very possible that people who buy her team books do it for other characters. It is also very unlikely someone would specifically refuse to buy the book because she is in it, if they don't care for her character. Despite what I think you're overlooking, it is possible to boost sales by being on a team without being an A-lister, because you might be able to tip some scales even if you don't have enough weight to hold your own.1. because i already told you so so no need to explain further.
2 to be an a-list character doesn't need to have an ongoing solo
3. oing strictly on exposure is very erroneous because it is very possible that people who buy her team books do it for other characters.--->But the point is, readers see her. making her recognizable everytime
jhazzroucher said
1. because i already told you so so no need to explain further.
Don't confuse making a comment with actually providing an explanation or an argument, you have made many statements but provided little reasoning or explanations; the fact that you can't or are unwilling to go back and clarify your own statement only exemplifies this.
jhazzroucher said
to be an a-list character doesn't need to have an ongoing solo
This is another point you have failed to justify, Having a Solo series is important because it shows haw many people want to read your comics for you, that is one of the defining traits of an A-lister, because as I said before. BTW; I am still waiting on a 'proper' explanation on why using a similar ranking for characters as we do for actors is wrong.
Going strictly on exposure is very erroneous because it is very possible that people who buy her team books do it for other characters. It is also very unlikely someone would specifically refuse to buy the book because she is in it, if they don't care for her character. Despite what I think you're overlooking, it is possible to boost sales by being on a team without being an A-lister, because you might be able to tip some scales even if you don't have enough weight to hold your own.
jhazzroucher said
3. oing strictly on exposure is very erroneous because it is very possible that people who buy her team books do it for other characters.--->But the point is, readers see her. making her recognizable everytime
And getting exposure does not dictate if you're an a-lister or not so this is a moot response because it is your ability to drive sales and bring in revenue that dictates this and not your ability to get carried.
I have already stated
Quantity does not equal quality, many appearances could just mean Marvel is trying to push her, rather than her pushing the team, Solo's are great for gauging how popular a comic character actually is, If Marvel actually thought she could sell, they would have a monthly out, but they don't, Wolverine does, Storm does not. Storm lacking a consistent solo, tells me Marvel does not think she will sell well, and I would assume they based this on how popular they gauge the character really is without the rest of the team to carry them. People might like seeing her on a team or the occasional crossover/visit, but it does not mean they like her enough to buy a solo, and that is one of the major components that separates the A's from everyone else.
1. Marvel is just choosing characters they want to give an ongoing, aside from making money.
2. a solo series is indeed important but it's not a requirement for a character to become an a-lister. Hence we have Cyclops and Storm breaking your opinion.
3. getting more exposure means getting more known and recognizable.
4. Quantity doesn't indeed equal equality but Storm and Cyclops has enough quality and if not enough, the quantity (exposure) that they got adds enough to make them an A-lister
1. Marvel is just choosing characters they want to give an ongoing, aside from making money.
90 pages and you have failed to provide this reason.
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2. a solo series is indeed important but it's not a requirement for a character to become an a-lister. Hence we have Cyclops and Storm breaking your opinion.
sound familiar? it should
jhazzroucher said
to be an a-list character doesn't need to have an ongoing solo
drgnx said:
This is another point you have failed to justify, Having a Solo series is important because it shows haw many people want to read your comics for you, that is one of the defining traits of an A-lister, because as I said before.
Going strictly on exposure is very erroneous because it is very possible that people who buy her team books do it for other characters. It is also very unlikely someone would specifically refuse to buy the book because she is in it, if they don't care for her character. Despite what I think you're overlooking, it is possible to boost sales by being on a team without being an A-lister, because you might be able to tip some scales even if you don't have enough weight to hold your own.
BTW; I am still waiting on a 'proper' explanation on why using a similar ranking for characters as we do for actors is wrong.
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jhazzroucher said
3. getting more exposure means getting more known and recognizable.
sound familiar? it should
jhazzroucher said
3. oing strictly on exposure is very erroneous because it is very possible that people who buy her team books do it for other characters.--->But the point is, readers see her. making her recognizable everytime
drgnx said:
And getting exposure does not dictate if you're an a-lister or not so this is a moot response because it is your ability to drive sales and bring in revenue that dictates this and not your ability to get carried.
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jhazzroucher said
4. Quantity doesn't indeed equal equality but Storm and Cyclops has enough quality and if not enough, the quantity (exposure) that they got adds enough to make them an A-lister
I think I have a quoted response for that.....wait for it .... (also in the above repose) ....
I already said:
And getting exposure does not dictate if you're an a-lister or not so this is a moot response because it is your ability to drive sales and bring in revenue that dictates this and not your ability to get carried.
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And don't think it escaped me that you never provided a 'proper' explanation on why using a similar ranking for characters as we do for actors is wrong.
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