Starfire Takes Center Stage in DC UNIVERSE PRESENTS #18

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#51 Posted by queenfrost_ (2613 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh no thanks. As long as she is depicted as a walking sexual fantasy then I'm not interested. Boys, its time to put ur penis back in ur pants....

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#52 Posted by Pyrogram (46545 posts) - - Show Bio

@queenfrost_:

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#53 Posted by Turkeysammich (47 posts) - - Show Bio

This cover deserves to be Hawkeye'd.

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#54 Posted by LeaderVladimir (199 posts) - - Show Bio

I really hope Starfire gets to do something othern than provding cheap fanservice.

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#55 Posted by DonFelipe (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ravager4 said:

@DonFelipe said:

@Ravager4 said:

@dadarkknight36310 said:

@Ravager4 said:

What's the title of this issue? "Let's see how little she can wear"?

Well Im pretty sure you know that the more direct contact Starfire has with the sun the more powerful she gets. So it makes since for her to have less clothing. Superman is the same way but he was raised here and he knows its would be unethical to fly around nude. I feel that if they could get away with it Starfire probably would be nude like Dejah Thoris. Since in the original stories the people of mars are suppose to be nude.

@dadarkknight36310 oh I'm aware of the poor justification they use to dress her in little more than nipple pasties and a thong. But really, what is it about her exposing her breasts that makes her absorb that much more energy than, say, her legs (which are strikingly more covered than her chest)? And what's the excuse for when she's indoors, or at night? You can have a revealing costume that is still tasteful, but this is about as tasteless as they come.

Though, I will agree that they'd draw her nude if they could. That much is clear.

I'm with ... it's a shame editors and writers think female characters only seem to work when they're nude and/or have large breasts. This is a major reason why there's less and less female heroes in the long run. Focusing on the looks more than character development works for a few issues but not in the long run. Besides, Batman doesn't run around naked and many of the male superheroes are completely covered in whatever latex.

Wait who are you with? You seemed to support my stance, yet you said you agreed with darkknight? Sorry, just confused.

Definitely on your side . Sorry for confusing you and maybe the others.

@movieartman said:

males dont do so as they are not Phisicaly Beautiful in the way females are, even to female viewers. there phisical form simply is not half as visualy appealing or artistic as the female form. and batman and such need armor and protection, starfire and powergirl and such are pretty much bullet proof they have no need to be covered up, and real women and female characters should be proud and unashamed of there bodies and sexuality.

I do agree with the first part - that may be true - and I do also agree one should be unashamed of the body and sex. But when it comes to comics and movies, etc. it's a stereotype that beautiful women wear less than lets say less beautiful woman. How about Starfire? Would you argue like you did when she was not red headed, less beautiful and weighing +200 pounds?

However my actual point was putting this in context to having less and less female superheroes in long-running ongoing series because writers can't seem to focus on their character development. It's a thin line. Of course, most female and male heroes for that matter have to look good (beautiful) and a nice cover definitely sells some extra numbers. Still... Wonder Woman for instance only works because there's so much more to her than her looks and she's rarely as naked as Starfire.

Besides, I don't even like the purple nothing she's wearing (or better not wearing) in Sook's cover and in the early issues of Red Hood and the Outlaws. IMHO, Starfire looks so much better in the blue suit and she doesn't seem to feel ashamed of her curves and beauty either...

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#56 Posted by wessaari (752 posts) - - Show Bio

what people fail to realize is that Starfire has always worn incredibly skimpy clothes. She was a symbol for women sexuality, and actually on occasion would walk around naked because she hated clothes. Everyone bitches and complains about the writers being mysoginists and i can understand that strong female characters are hard to come by without looking like eye candy, but you also have to consider the story the character has been in. If you read RHTO you see great development for Kori, in a costume where the only skin showing is her face. Everyone judged her so quickly in the beginning of the new 52, and now that people realized that she actually had some good development, they jump back on the hater bandwagon.

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#57 Posted by arnoldoaad (1038 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squalleon said:

Year 2014 : DC finally decides that starfire will walk nude and she will be covered only by her hair :-P

That actually already happen

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#58 Posted by cloudzackvincent (1197 posts) - - Show Bio

looks great like most things in the new 52.

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#59 Posted by Killer_of_trolls (2068 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad said:

@Squalleon said:

Year 2014 : DC finally decides that starfire will walk nude and she will be covered only by her hair :-P

That actually already happen

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Ooookaaay... DC writers finally gone full retard.

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#60 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6958 posts) - - Show Bio

Very nice! I might actually try this out because of her taking the spotlight now.

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#61 Posted by deactivated-5a77aa5e0a324 (310 posts) - - Show Bio

Love all the comments about how she's a walking sex fantasy and nothing more. Clearly those people only read the first three or so issues of RHatO

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#62 Posted by the_stegman (40195 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, people are still talking about Starfire's costume? That's soooo September 2011

Moderator
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#63 Posted by Trixie (998 posts) - - Show Bio

It's because it's just as stupid then as it is now. Clearly people are still pissed about it and want a change.

If your favorite hero dressed like that, you would be too

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#64 Posted by InsaneArtisticNerd (24 posts) - - Show Bio

Her tits are about to pop out of her costume, but dayum, Starfire has fantastic hair.

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#65 Posted by sethysquare (3965 posts) - - Show Bio

@DonFelipe said:

@Ravager4 said:

@DonFelipe said:

@Ravager4 said:

@dadarkknight36310 said:

@Ravager4 said:

What's the title of this issue? "Let's see how little she can wear"?

Well Im pretty sure you know that the more direct contact Starfire has with the sun the more powerful she gets. So it makes since for her to have less clothing. Superman is the same way but he was raised here and he knows its would be unethical to fly around nude. I feel that if they could get away with it Starfire probably would be nude like Dejah Thoris. Since in the original stories the people of mars are suppose to be nude.

@dadarkknight36310 oh I'm aware of the poor justification they use to dress her in little more than nipple pasties and a thong. But really, what is it about her exposing her breasts that makes her absorb that much more energy than, say, her legs (which are strikingly more covered than her chest)? And what's the excuse for when she's indoors, or at night? You can have a revealing costume that is still tasteful, but this is about as tasteless as they come.

Though, I will agree that they'd draw her nude if they could. That much is clear.

I'm with ... it's a shame editors and writers think female characters only seem to work when they're nude and/or have large breasts. This is a major reason why there's less and less female heroes in the long run. Focusing on the looks more than character development works for a few issues but not in the long run. Besides, Batman doesn't run around naked and many of the male superheroes are completely covered in whatever latex.

Wait who are you with? You seemed to support my stance, yet you said you agreed with darkknight? Sorry, just confused.

Definitely on your side . Sorry for confusing you and maybe the others.

@movieartman said:

males dont do so as they are not Phisicaly Beautiful in the way females are, even to female viewers. there phisical form simply is not half as visualy appealing or artistic as the female form. and batman and such need armor and protection, starfire and powergirl and such are pretty much bullet proof they have no need to be covered up, and real women and female characters should be proud and unashamed of there bodies and sexuality.

I do agree with the first part - that may be true - and I do also agree one should be unashamed of the body and sex. But when it comes to comics and movies, etc. it's a stereotype that beautiful women wear less than lets say less beautiful woman. How about Starfire? Would you argue like you did when she was not red headed, less beautiful and weighing +200 pounds?

However my actual point was putting this in context to having less and less female superheroes in long-running ongoing series because writers can't seem to focus on their character development. It's a thin line. Of course, most female and male heroes for that matter have to look good (beautiful) and a nice cover definitely sells some extra numbers. Still... Wonder Woman for instance only works because there's so much more to her than her looks and she's rarely as naked as Starfire.

Besides, I don't even like the purple nothing she's wearing (or better not wearing) in Sook's cover and in the early issues of Red Hood and the Outlaws. IMHO, Starfire looks so much better in the blue suit and she doesn't seem to feel ashamed of her curves and beauty either...

I am so glad dc decided to stick to her purple suit. this blue space outfit is only acceptable in space. Starfire has always been half naked since she first appreared in teen titans. There is nothing wrong with it, shes an alien, she wears whatever she wants to.

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#66 Posted by sethysquare (3965 posts) - - Show Bio

@divingfalcon713 said:

Love all the comments about how she's a walking sex fantasy and nothing more. Clearly those people only read the first three or so issues of RHatO

these people are just lame and uncomfortable with female sexuality.

This would clearly be a book about her alien heritage. I dont get why people are so upset at her costume sice she has always been wearing a bathing suit.

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#67 Posted by modunhanul (453 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: I like that suit. Maybe I shall read Red Hood and Outlaws.

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#68 Posted by sethysquare (3965 posts) - - Show Bio

@modunhanul said:

@sethysquare: I like that suit. Maybe I shall read Red Hood and Outlaws.

you should. Sales for this book is surprisingly good. Even the trade sales. People are just too quick to judge it.

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#69 Posted by deactivated-5a77aa5e0a324 (310 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: So glad someone agrees with me. I'm so sick of people saying she has horrible characterization in that book. Personally I prefer this Starfire over the one who was constantly fawning over Nightwing.

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#70 Posted by cagedleo730 (255 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killer_of_trolls said:

@arnoldoaad said:

@Squalleon said:

Year 2014 : DC finally decides that starfire will walk nude and she will be covered only by her hair :-P

That actually already happen

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Ooookaaay... DC writers finally gone full retard.

Those scenes were pre-relaunch. I believe it was from Countdown to Adventure (2007) starring Starfire, Adam Strange and Animal Man.

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#71 Posted by SmashBrawler (6033 posts) - - Show Bio

@cagedleo730 said:

Those scenes were pre-relaunch. I believe it was from Countdown to Adventure (2007) starring Starfire, Adam Strange and Animal Man.

Nope, they're from Judd Winick's Titans run. Issue 1, to be precise.

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#72 Posted by arnoldoaad (1038 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmashBrawler said:

@cagedleo730 said:

Those scenes were pre-relaunch. I believe it was from Countdown to Adventure (2007) starring Starfire, Adam Strange and Animal Man.

Nope, they're from Judd Winick's Titans run. Issue 1, to be precise.

damn, you beat me to it

yeah, it is Titans #1

though she was also naked in Countdown to Adventure

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#73 Posted by sethysquare (3965 posts) - - Show Bio

@divingfalcon713: exactly. Starfire was a free spirited, expressive and interesting character in the early new teen titans days. Until she got too soap operaish and left at the alter and constantly crying over nightwing.

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#74 Posted by marvel_geek (19 posts) - - Show Bio

There's always more room for a hot strong character such as her in my books, cannot wait!!!

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#75 Posted by Killer_of_trolls (2068 posts) - - Show Bio

@cagedleo730:

1- As the two other users have already told you, you are wrong

2- I didn't mention the revamp in my comment.

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#76 Edited by PopRock123 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

I think people judged starfire way to harshly she had some good character development in RHatO

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#77 Posted by DocFishstick (242 posts) - - Show Bio

i will pick this one up

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#78 Posted by akbogert (3323 posts) - - Show Bio

Hey, so... this came out today.

Didn't think it was very good. *shrug* My recommendation would be pass.

The Arsenal issue was pretty good though.

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#79 Posted by DurararaFTW (77 posts) - - Show Bio

All this talk about her sleasy outfit.

She's wearing platemail over chainmail, furboots, pants, gloves and scarves. Also a sword. And looks more badass then ever, it's everything you guys ever wanted.

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#80 Posted by sethysquare (3965 posts) - - Show Bio

@durararaftw:I think they're just afraid of her sexuality. Nothing can change these people's mind about her cos they want every girl to dress up a women in middle east.

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#81 Posted by WonderHunter (131 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked this issue, but the end... i don't know. Could have been better >:c

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#82 Posted by RaceAddict (33 posts) - - Show Bio

I just picked up this issue yesterday (that's how far behind I am...) and thought it was just "ok".

I always read issues twice, a day or two apart, but on the first read-through it just felt a little off. Kori's characterization wasn't really at all consistent with what we've seen from her in RHATO. It doesn't help that I'm not too clear on exactly when this is supposed to have taken place. Recent past? Distant past?

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#83 Edited by Glaucus (568 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

@divingfalcon713: exactly. Starfire was a free spirited, expressive and interesting character in the early new teen titans days. Until she got too soap operaish and left at the alter and constantly crying over nightwing.

What comics have you been reading???

Dick didn't leave Kory at the altar.

Both were at the wedding and said their marriage vows to each other.

Right before they were pronounced husband and wife by the minister, Trigon-possessed Raven crashed the wedding, killed the minister, and implanted Kory

It led to Kory breaking up with Dick, leaving Earth, and returning to Tamaran.

The following is from the wedding in New Titans, issue #100

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#84 Posted by Glaucus (568 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing Mini Series Plans 1991

Posted by on Feb 4, 2012 in Library, Titans Hunt Era: Archives (1991-1995) | Comments Offon Nightwing Mini Series Plans 1991

Nightwing Mini Series Plans 1991

There was a planned NIGHTWING mini-series planned as far back as 1991; Originally, it was going to be done by Art Thibert. There was even a promo-poster for it in TITANS $ELLOUT SPECIAL. It eventually was scrapped and Nightwing later had a mini series by Dennis O’Neil and Greg Land in 1995.

The Plot: Art Thibert on the Nightwing Mini-Series

I asked Art Thibert about the aborted Nightwing mini-series at the 4th Annual New York International Sci-Fi & Fantasy Creators Convention in 2003. He told me the whole overview.

As the mini-series opened, Starfire confronted Nightwing about ‘where their relationship was heading’. They had been dating for a few years and reached the point in their relationship where it had to take the next big step. Before any decisions were made, an alien invasion threatened the earth, taking Starfire hostage. Nightwing investigated and started formulating a plan to stop the invasion and rescue Starfire.

Meanwhile, the other heroes in the DC Universe learned of the alien threat and mounted a counter-offense. But Batman stopped them from taking any action when he realized Nightwing already had the situation accessed and was confident his former sidekick could handle it on his own.

Nightwing is able to reach the aliens and stop the invasion – as well as rescue Starfire. The mini-series would end with Nightwing cradling Starfire in his arms, emerging from the alien stronghold. A crowd of DC heroes would part to watch Nightwing emerge with Starfire in his arms, having defeated the alien threat. Now reunited with Kory, Nightwing proposes marriage and she accepts.

The mini was geared to establish Nightwing’s ‘coming of age’ as a major, competant hero in the DC Universe. Art Thibert said Marv Wolfman read the overview to the mini-series and approved it. Unfortunately, there was a major editorial shift and Thibert was offered a very lucrative offer from MARVEL to do CABLE. With NIGHTWING in doubt, Thibert opted to take the CABLE assignment, much to the loss of Titans fans.

Wizard Interview:

Art Thibert on the Nightwing Mini-Series

Art Thibert: I’ve never pledged my allegiance to a company, but to a person or an editor – someone I liked or felt comfortable with. Mike Carlin, the Superman editor, is a person I’ve always looked up to, and he did a lot for me in my early career. That’s why I agreed to stay on the Superman books, even if it’s only covers. I really like Bob Harras; I think he does a tremendous job. I really like Jonathan Peterson at DC, with whom I’ve had a long-lasting relationship – even though I’ve never had anything come out from his office. That’s why I’m doing Nightwing for him, coming out in December.

Wizard: As long as you brought it up, is Nightwing still in process?

Art Thibert:It’s still in process, now; after I finish X-Men #13, then Pamela Winesette, who is co-writing with me, and I will be starting on it full time. We already have the basic plot break-down done for the four issues; next I’ll start penciling, then we’ll start scripting together.

Wizard: This is your first real writing assignment?

Art Thibert: Yeah – I get back into pencilling – and somebody I’m writing, too! Am I a nut or what?

Wizard: Depends on how good you think you are.

Art Thibert: We’ll see.

Wizard: You’re tying into a line of books that have always been viewed as pretty writer-driven. Mary Wolfman has been the motivating force on the Titans material for so long.

Art Thibert: He still is. At the beginning, I was a little skeptical, because what Pam and I were proposing was a plan to really shake up the character of Nightwing. At one point, I went out to lunch with Marv, to get his OK and his blessing. He was all for it; he was really excited about it. I hope we live up to the tradition.

Wizard: What draws you to Nightwing?

Art Thibert: It was a major challenge. Jonathan said he had an idea to launch his whole Titans invasion, and asked if I’d be interested in Nightwing. I said I’d get back to him, because I had to figure out if I had any affection for him and what I could bring to him. As I talked to Pam about it, we started coming up with ideas; it was amazing how we started going nuts with plans for a character I thought I had no thoughts about. So I told Jonathan I’d do it if Pam and I could write it.

He wasn’t sure and asked us to send in a sample script and he thought it was great. It was official this time last year, so it’s been a year in the making. We got carte blanche to mess with the character – new costumes for both him and Starfire. Basically, we want to redefine Nightwing for the ‘90s. Bring him out of the “disco Elvis” look, at Pam calls it. We’ll give him some high-tech equipment, things like that.

Wizard: With the high profile you’ll get from the X-Men and then the Nightwing project, how do you envision your future?

Art Thibert: Marvel has offered me the ongoing Cable series, to start in the summer of ‘93, scripted by Fabian Nicieza. That gives us time to get some material in drawer, so to speak.

Wizard: Do you ever see yourself in the same position as the Image founders were when they made the jump.?

Art Thibert: It’s hard to say. For me, if I’m happy with what I’m doing, that’s what counts. The Nightwing series is a labor of love and I have an affection for Cable. If it works out that I get to that level and the readers like what I’m doing, it could happen. I’m just doing it for a kick right now. I don’t think of it in those terms.

Editor Jonathan Peterson on the Nightwing Mini-Series:

TTC: Were the creators lined up or did you seek them out?

JP: I basically called in favors. I called up friends, and one of the people I called was Art Thibert. I met Art when he first came to New York, [when he was] first breaking into comics. In fact, one of his earliest pencil jobs was for Barbara Kesel back when she was editing both New Teen Titans and Titans Spotlight, if you remember that title. Art drew an issue centering on Aqualad. In the case of Art, I really wanted him to be on “my team,” so to speak.

Here is – or I should say “was” – my comic editorial philosophy. I say “was” since now I’m working in Hollywood towards other goals these days. But basically, when I was editing, my core belief was 1) what I said before. Have fun. If you have fun it’ll show in the books, and that’s good. 2) To have fun… work with people you like. I’d rather work with a lesser talent that I can get along with and try to editorially shape or groom than to work with a “big name” comic star who’s such a headache, you hate going into the office.

Art was doing more stuff for Marvel, but he started at DC, so I called him up to say, “What would get you back to DC?” and I knew he was a big Batman fan, so I dangled the idea of Nightwing as part of that. I said to Art, “I have an idea. We’ve given Deathstroke his own book, and now I want Nightwing to get the next spin-off.” Well, Art loved the idea and asked if he and his wife Pamela, who wanted to write and work with Art, could have the book, and I said, “Dude! Why do you think I’m calling you!” and he said, “Oh man, count me in! Is this gonna be cool with Marv though? I hear he’s pretty protective about the characters.” I said “Well, he’s really having fun these days. He’s a real team player. And no, I haven’t told him yet, but I will now!” [laughs]

So I sat down with Art, and we discussed what we would do. Looking at my master game plan, I basically told Art that I wanted to push Dick and Kory along, that it would be his job to do that, in an initial miniseries. Art went off to talk to Pamela, and came back and said “How far can we push them?” I said “How do you mean?” and it was Art and Pamela who then said “Well, can we marry them, so the end of our trial mini has some real weight?” And I just lit up over that. I said “Yes! That’s it. That’s what we need to do. Go all out! Good plan!”

[…]

TTC: So you tossed out these ideas and weaved them together, knowing the endpoint was Deathstroke killing Jericho. A bit of reverse plotting?

JP: We actually even knew one step further. We were actually ultimately building to New Titans #100, which was two steps beyond. Phase One was “Titans Hunt.” We kill Jericho, get a real Wildebeest and some other new characters like Pantha. Phase Two is dealing with the idea [that] they are mature. Let’s make the New Titans kick-ass adults. That was when I turned to Art as the lynchpin, to do a Nightwing book. As part of that, I wanted to push the Dick and Kory romance along. I thought that had gotten too stale. I mean, it was just out there, but not really going anywhere. So to me, it was like telling Nightwing and Kory, “Crap or get off the pot.” [laughs] We wanted the endpoint to be that Nightwing would actually marry Starfire in New Titans # 100, because we could do that. There was a Robin in Batman, so it didn’t matter. I thought it would be like marrying Reed and Sue in Fantastic Four. That was a momentous occasion, so let’s build to it.

So I turned to Art. I wanted him to do a Nightwing six issue mini-series right around New Titans # 93. It’ll ship with New Titans up until New Titans # 99, at which point Art could have Nightwing proposing to Starfire in the last issue, and then issue # 100 would be the wedding issue. That was endpoint two.

Then there was phase three. I wanted to get the Teen Titans back, so I explained my whacked out idea. I really wanted Robin, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Changeling, Raven, Starfire and Cyborg back to what they were originally, so I wanted to do an alternate dimension or timeline, and I turned to Kevin and said “You get to launch an all-new Titans book and design them from the ground up.” Not only that, but this alternate universe would have an alternate young Robin, and alternate young Starfire and all the rest. The plan for Team Titans was a secret one. With the first Team Titans Annual, or at the end of the first 12 issues, I told Kevin he would then be relaunching the Teen Titans with alternate versions of the core-seven members.

[from The Titans Companion, 2005]

http://www.titanstower.com/nightwing-mini-series-plans-1991/

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#85 Posted by Glaucus (568 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft said:

She needs to be a darker orange :l

I'll probably pick this up for my sister.

shrugs

I like her better as golden which was her original skin color

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