Five Revelations About Starfire From RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #6

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#51 Posted by All_Around_Nerd (58 posts) - - Show Bio

@Eonidas: yes the red costume reminds me too much of Batman And Robin, and that's never a good thing

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#52 Posted by Make_Me_Mad (22 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: To be fair, yes, Batman is totally a manwhore. Kind of always has been, but it's definitely seemed worse since the reboot. Have to wait and see how it goes for Grayson, but it seems like he's actually improved since this whole mess- if he goes back to 'sleep with babs, then invite her to your wedding with Starfire' levels of douchebaggery, then yeah, he's also a terrible character again.

It's not a double standard for some people.

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#53 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

Too little, too late and in the wrong order...if this had been #1 then no one but the die hard Nightwing/Starfire fans would be throwing knives at Lobdell now over it.

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#54 Posted by RoninKane (80 posts) - - Show Bio

Love the art in this series and I hope DC doesn't change up the team.

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#55 Posted by SadiaVicious (140 posts) - - Show Bio

Starfire Has a Brain

HAHAHAHAHA

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#56 Posted by frozenedge2 (1465 posts) - - Show Bio

Did anybody else read the book for Roy besides me lol? I feel like I was the only one who read it for him but of course I read it for Starfire and Jason also

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#57 Posted by Lvenger (36344 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: 1a. If the book's not meant for younger audiences then there should be measures to ensure that kids do not end up reading it given its unsuitable content. And Bruce is just a player tbh though I think the woman he slept with in Detective Comics is from an arc 5 years back though I could be wrong on that front.

1b. In my opinion, removing Starfire's ability to fully remember the experiences she has had with other humans like the Teen Titans takes away the history and the relationships of the Wolfman run with the Titans. If it's just mentioned in passing in the first issue, what was the point of it? Why not develop it more like in later issues? The Johns run was incredible as well though that probably isn't canon in the New 52.

1c. I know that she was sleeping with Captain Comet pre Flashpoint. As for the others I don't know but the relationshipss she has with Jason and Roy weren't really explored until later whereas when Starfire first appeared, her relationship with the other titans were always explored.

@sethysquare said:

1d. Suicide Squad has been an extremely fun book. Its sad that you're just basing them off the internet uproar. There are books like Static Shock, Blackhawks and men of war that are much worst in delivery. Also books like Nightwing who pretty much fell flat. Furthermore, its almost universally agreed that Ken Rocafort drew every single panels beautifully. Yeah, you are entitled to your opinion, but if you would actually read them for their own merits, you would discover that it really isn't what you think it is.

I've read synopsises of Suicide Squad as well as looking at panels and it doesn't begin to match the quality of earlier appearences of the Suicide Squad pre New 52. I'd forgotten about Static Shock and Blackhawk, my apologies about that. SS in particular has not done well and the previous writer for that explained the reasons for that being due to outside influence from other editors and writers who thought they knew better than he did. SS deserved far better than he received in the New 52. Oh and Mr Terrific is another flop for me. The costume, Karen Starr and the quality of stories have never appealed to me. However, I have enjoyed Nightwing as to me, the stories have always seemed fun and the art good. Art's good on RH as well though it takes more than art to make a good comic book. As you can see, our own perspectives share similarities and differences and we can reconcile on some things but not others.

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#58 Posted by Samimista (22297 posts) - - Show Bio

I just read this issue and absolutely love it. Looks like Scott was right when he said he always had a plan for Starfire. 5/5 for me with this issue.

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#59 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio
@Outside_85 said:

Too little, too late and in the wrong order...if this had been #1 then no one but the die hard Nightwing/Starfire fans would be throwing knives at Lobdell now over it.

yea be character development be damned...
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#60 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

@Outside_85 said:

Too little, too late and in the wrong order...if this had been #1 then no one but the die hard Nightwing/Starfire fans would be throwing knives at Lobdell now over it.

yea be character development be damned...

No, but you don't lamp someone the first time you meet them then expect them to stick around.

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#61 Posted by zackattack529 (1408 posts) - - Show Bio

i honestly do not get any of this provacativness.

is everyone in this blog like a super christian old man or a woman? i swear sometimes i feel like the only young guy on Comicvine. lol big deal. everytime you watch tv. there is always gonna be provacativness, and if not in plain sight its certainly subliminal. its just how it is, so stop complaing about a comic book character that you dont have to read. shes right on the cover, so if you guys think sexy chicks are just to "icky" for you old dudes. then pass it up! the book is not even that great aand the one problem peaopl have found is that starfire is too "sexy?" ha..if anything thats the one good thing i found a about it. and not to mention its just her exterior, she has alot of depth. its only issue 6 for crying out loud. the catwoman book as i recall there was already a sex scene right in the first issue thats visible. in red hood it was only implied.

find something new to complain about people!

but like i said, im young so this stuff is right down my alley, for all you old dudes and women i apologize, i know you guys got kids to look out for and stuff but cmon man!?

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#62 Posted by ChaosAgentLoki (37 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I've loved Red Hood since the start. Like many people, I started reading this because Jason is my favorite of the Robins and when done correctly is an amazing character. The fact however, that Starfire's portrayal in this was complained about for not matching up with the animated Teen Titans version is embarrassing. She was never truly like she was in the toned down cartoon in the original comics from the 80s (which I have read many of...though I'm sadly struggling to remember much past the Terror of Trigon arc). Sure, it wasn't the best first impression (I'll willingly admit to that) and Lobdell could have given us this character building issue earlier, but it's still been an amazing story so far. Now, he just needs to give us more info on Roy and the entire team will have had some build up and then we can really get into the hopefully crazy stories that will follow.

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#63 Posted by Static Shock (53047 posts) - - Show Bio

I just read the book. It was pretty good. Her rebooted version isn't all that bad, though.

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#64 Posted by Mercy_ (94928 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty much (okay, entirely) ate my words regarding my ranting about her first issue. This is one of my favorite books right now.

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#65 Posted by fodigg (6244 posts) - - Show Bio

@zackattack529 said:

i honestly do not get any of this provacativness.

is everyone in this blog like a super christian old man or a woman? i swear sometimes i feel like the only young guy on Comicvine. lol big deal. everytime you watch tv. there is always gonna be provacativness, and if not in plain sight its certainly subliminal. its just how it is, so stop complaing about a comic book character that you dont have to read. shes right on the cover, so if you guys think sexy chicks are just to "icky" for you old dudes. then pass it up! the book is not even that great aand the one problem peaopl have found is that starfire is too "sexy?" ha..if anything thats the one good thing i found a about it. and not to mention its just her exterior, she has alot of depth. its only issue 6 for crying out loud. the catwoman book as i recall there was already a sex scene right in the first issue thats visible. in red hood it was only implied.

find something new to complain about people!

but like i said, im young so this stuff is right down my alley, for all you old dudes and women i apologize, i know you guys got kids to look out for and stuff but cmon man!?

The fans who didn't like the new Starfire were upset because her personality seemed to totally change and she was saddled with what appeared to be goldfish memory. The old Starfire—the ones fans missed—was just as promiscuous. Promiscuity and "sexiness" were not what Starfire fans were upset about.

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#66 Posted by The_Kid_Lantern (222 posts) - - Show Bio

What I don't understand, is if the New 52 Teen Titans are really the first official group by that name... how and why are Dick, Kori, and Roy teaming up in a flashback and not Titans themselves? Or are we to believe they were just called Titans with no Teen in front of the title?

I dig that Nightwing flashback suit too, but I love his current one. I don't know about the flashback suits bicep spikes or whatever.... LOL

~KL~

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#67 Posted by danhimself (21433 posts) - - Show Bio

This is one of my favorite books of the relaunch...the art and writing are both top notch....the same goes for Lobdell's other books, Superboy and Teen Titans, whenever a new issue is released they're always on the top of the pile

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#68 Posted by Doctor!!!!! (2135 posts) - - Show Bio

Starting to like this Starfire, she would be one weird Doctro Who Companion I can tell you that, but another Redhead will do!

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#69 Posted by God_Spawn (43482 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress said:

Pretty much (okay, entirely) ate my words regarding my ranting about her first issue. This is one of my favorite books right now.

*VIctory dances*

Moderator
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#70 Posted by Or35ti (1133 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish we could have a mini-series or something with the classic Titans roster in the New 52.

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#71 Edited by Lifeguard85 (453 posts) - - Show Bio

In issue 3, Starfire's most cherished memory (where, as a child, she killed one of the Citadel guards for showing compassion) is what caused me to continue reading. Its been since that issue that I have believed that there has always been a plan to fully delve into Starfire's history and personality. She doesn't live in the past, at all, so why would she focus on it. It was stated she doesn't even process memories the same way humans do. For people who gave up on the book, you missed out on the fact that the creative team has slowly been dropping hints about her character and past. I think the book is great and can't wait to see whats next.

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#72 Posted by Vash108 (11 posts) - - Show Bio

@sinful: I feel the same way. Feels like the realization hit the writer that people don't like this kinda stuff and this is his attempt to try and fix it. First impressions are a big deal and that just soured it for me.

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#73 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio
@zackattack529 said:

i honestly do not get any of this provacativness.

is everyone in this blog like a super christian old man or a woman? i swear sometimes i feel like the only young guy on Comicvine. lol big deal. everytime you watch tv. there is always gonna be provacativness, and if not in plain sight its certainly subliminal. its just how it is, so stop complaing about a comic book character that you dont have to read. shes right on the cover, so if you guys think sexy chicks are just to "icky" for you old dudes. then pass it up! the book is not even that great aand the one problem peaopl have found is that starfire is too "sexy?" ha..if anything thats the one good thing i found a about it. and not to mention its just her exterior, she has alot of depth. its only issue 6 for crying out loud. the catwoman book as i recall there was already a sex scene right in the first issue thats visible. in red hood it was only implied.

find something new to complain about people!

but like i said, im young so this stuff is right down my alley, for all you old dudes and women i apologize, i know you guys got kids to look out for and stuff but cmon man!?

Yea I'v seen day time TV shows sexier than this book
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#74 Posted by 1337W422102 (8 posts) - - Show Bio

Unf.

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#75 Posted by Bestostero (5782 posts) - - Show Bio

my question is how come she doesn't remember Roy or Roy remember her if they were in the flashback panel together with Dick?

I haven't been consistently this title much...so maybe i missed that.

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#76 Posted by BatteredArmor (6234 posts) - - Show Bio

@Grim said:

Seeing as to how this issue has a ton of timeline-establishing situations in it, i doubt any of it was a last second cop-out deal like some of you are implying. There are two revelations about Dick Grayson's past, a nearly full establishment of Starfires life on earth, and the story brings us full circle in the origin of the trio.

Also, the book has been one of the best of the N52. Why on earth would anyone give in to the critics when the book is selling so well? If anything, the controversy has proven good for the book, so it would be stupid to take it away because some people are complaining about something that (lets be logical) is well within Starfire's character, and always has been. Just because they never expanded on it in the 80's doesn't mean Starfire hasn't always been a very accidentally-sexual person. As shown in Tony's article, shes always been rather uninformed and curious about human sexuality. The only reason she was a one man girl in the old days was because there would have been REAL backlash if any comic was portraying a sexually social female.

I'm fairly certain there have been no changes in the planned plot since issue one. Not as a result of the fans complaining anyway. The comics industry openly believes that the negative minority is always the loudest (as in, the few people who dislike something make sooo much noise it SEEMS like the majority dislikes it), and so they rarely listen to the fans when the sales are up. Also, im pretty sure there was confirmation that we would see an explanation for Starfire's actions like the day of issue one.

So no you guys. i dont think this is a deviation from the plan.

This times a thousand

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#77 Posted by Mutant4life (21 posts) - - Show Bio

That's some fantastic artwork

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#78 Posted by Video_Martian (5650 posts) - - Show Bio

OMIGOD I HAVE TO READ THIS BOOK NOW :P

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#79 Edited by lykopis (10845 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@sethysquare said:

@fodigg: What do you mean? Was it decompressed in any way? Because Scott's writings are far from decompressed. If you're saying Avengers are written for trade, that one I understand, but in all of Red Hood's issues, theres always a story in each issue.

I simply mean that for five issues Scott has been saying "it's not like that, she's actually like this" and talking about character features we didn't really see in the first three issues. That this was the character he wanted to give us was in the first storyline (trade), but he counted on us sticking around to see it (for six months worth of issues!). He should have front-loaded some of that personality in order to not alienate Starfire fans and portray a more rounded character for issue one. I'm sure it reads fine when you sit down and read through all six issues, but not when you're reading issue-to-issue, at least for the first three, which is what I read.

In fact, giving some of that character background up front required more dialogue, you could even make the argument that the first issue wasn't decompressed enough. Too much focus on action and the bro-tastic buddy story of Jason and Roy.

This....multiplied by infinity plus one, lol.

At least the concerns fans had in the beginning are being addressed, regardless of your take whether it was in response to that criticism or because it had been in the works since day one. It appears that the book is doing well and hey, any successful book should be applauded. Hopefully the way Starfire was portrayed initially will never be revisited again by any writer, present and future.

Everyone walked away a little bit more enlightened than they were before - that's a good thing.

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#80 Posted by trailofdead (67 posts) - - Show Bio

Man, I prefer the old art. It's interesting seeing it side by side. The new stuff looks like a cartoon. Then again I guess it depends what you grew up on.

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#81 Posted by God_Spawn (43482 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr.obvious said:

OMIGOD I HAVE TO READ THIS BOOK NOW :P

Obviously you should have read it from the beginning. Don't quite live up to your name now do we?

No Caption Provided
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#82 Posted by Grand_Supremor (50 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: lol what is with the ugly pikachu?

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#83 Posted by Nightstar1 (48 posts) - - Show Bio

None of these are really revelations about the character. Just fixing bad writing.

Starfire's brain? It's hard to gauge a person's intelligence when you don't give them dialogue outside of "Is there anything else I can do?" and "Wanna have sex?".

Validating existence. Done by bringing a lover from the past and his costume into the story-line. WTG, Lobdell. (Check tumblr for the "It's true!" posts.)

Starfire/Grayson: Nope. No living in the past there. And even though she doesn't remember his name and has to sniff his glove (or whatever, I mean real animals sniff butts/crotches/feet because there is a stronger concentration of scents in those areas) in order to evoke memories of the man she loves (but can't remember his name.) You've come a long way, "smart space kitty".

Starfire doesn't live in the past. (Pass me that glove, will ya?)

No, Jason and Kori didn't "do it". Jason just basically led Roy to believe they DID.

In the Wolfman/Perez era Titans, the kiss would have allowed Kory to learn the rudimentary English language. (She kissed Red Star in a later issue in order to learn Russian.) And she basically surprised Dick when she kissed him, so he was caught off guard. (Hence, he was surprised) When it dawned on him that she was kissing him, he stopped struggling, and enjoyed it (from Changeling's dialogue). If Kori already knew the language, then there would be no reason to learn English by kissing Jason. So either Lobdell didn't understand the Dick/Kory kiss, or he changed the outcome.

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#84 Edited by notarandomguy (318 posts) - - Show Bio

@WildValentine said:

Man, Jason's becoming less and less easy to hate. Scott Lobdell is really impressing me and making me feel for his character. His life no longer revolves around why Batman didn't avenge him, which is a bloody breakthrough.

He's now way better that he used to be as Robin as starting as the Red Hood not to mention he's not the stupid looser they made him in Batman and Robin

@knighteagle said:

Personally loved the series since issue #1, glad people are finally giving Lobdell some credit. Loving the relationship between Jason and Starfire looking forward to the rest of the series :)

^^^THIS^^^

@Knight Train said:

@sinful: I agree. He messed up, listened to the criticisms, ret-conned them in, and then pretended they were always going to be that way. Rather clever

I'm sorry but do you know Scott work at all? if its done this way is exactly what he had in mind or what he's been planning to make it good, I like the way he works on characters and (btw you're half right) takes suggestions, he probably changed some things in order to connect it all but if you know his work you should know he's not that kind of guy that screws up and then when gets better makes it look like it was all planned, Scott Lobdell is good at what he does you should notice in how Jason's character is evolving from what he used to be, and if he did changed his planned don't you think that's good? meaning people like him are actually listening to their fans, unlike what Marvel does, and I'm sorry if you think I'm wrong but after all is my opinion and is just what I think.

@Grim said:

Seeing as to how this issue has a ton of timeline-establishing situations in it, i doubt any of it was a last second cop-out deal like some of you are implying. There are two revelations about Dick Grayson's past, a nearly full establishment of Starfires life on earth, and the story brings us full circle in the origin of the trio.

Also, the book has been one of the best of the N52. Why on earth would anyone give in to the critics when the book is selling so well? If anything, the controversy has proven good for the book, so it would be stupid to take it away because some people are complaining about something that (lets be logical) is well within Starfire's character, and always has been. Just because they never expanded on it in the 80's doesn't mean Starfire hasn't always been a very accidentally-sexual person. As shown in Tony's article, shes always been rather uninformed and curious about human sexuality. The only reason she was a one man girl in the old days was because there would have been REAL backlash if any comic was portraying a sexually social female.

I'm fairly certain there have been no changes in the planned plot since issue one. Not as a result of the fans complaining anyway. The comics industry openly believes that the negative minority is always the loudest (as in, the few people who dislike something make sooo much noise it SEEMS like the majority dislikes it), and so they rarely listen to the fans when the sales are up. Also, im pretty sure there was confirmation that we would see an explanation for Starfire's actions like the day of issue one.

So no you guys. i dont think this is a deviation from the plan.

Now this guy knows what he is saying, I like how you talk whit bases, people should have notice what you're saying.

@sethysquare said:

@Knight Train: @sinful said:

I don't see it as planned. More like he gave in.

No, you guys are wrong.

http://redhoodsden.blogspot.com/

This was done way back in october. Scott always had plans for this.

I read that now, maybe everyone should take a look.

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#85 Posted by Bobzenub (125 posts) - - Show Bio

*sigh* So there is no way to satisfy CA-drones?

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#86 Edited by palaeomerus (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh look. DC is trying to quietly mop up the tacky stupid mess they made and pretending that the problem was just impatient readers who can't follow the 'hip, complex, organic storytelling' and drew false conclusions. Yeah, whatever.

And Lucas ALWAYS knew that Han didn't shoot Greedo without being fired on, we just assumed that he did because the shot was so chaotic. His edit to Han shooting second was just FIXING our misunderstanding.

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#87 Posted by Video_Martian (5650 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@mr.obvious said:

OMIGOD I HAVE TO READ THIS BOOK NOW :P

Obviously you should have read it from the beginning. Don't quite live up to your name now do we?

No Caption Provided

I didn't read it from the beginning because I originally thought that Starfire's character was being mishandled. She IS one of my all-time favorite characters after all, I've loved her ever since I first watched Teen Titans. And thank you so much for that smart-ass comment, I really appreciate it. <3

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#88 Posted by Nightstar1 (48 posts) - - Show Bio

What I liked about the issue. The "old" Starfire costume.

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#89 Posted by The Impersonator (8500 posts) - - Show Bio

@Void_Heart said:

star fire needs her own comic

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#90 Posted by rokusan23 (147 posts) - - Show Bio

@Void_Heart said:

star fire needs her own comic

^DAT.

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#91 Posted by enigma_2099 (37 posts) - - Show Bio

Dick Grayson (the love of her life), and for spending some casual time with Roy Harper. Characters don't always wear their hearts on their sleeves. While some of Kori's actions seemed extreme, there was the impression that we weren't being given all the facts. And with issue #6, it turns out that was indeed the case.

Bull****. With issue # 6, they finally said, "you know what? We need to fix this before we piss off so many people, they stop buying our book altogether..."

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#92 Posted by Miss_Garrick (1804 posts) - - Show Bio

This explains a lot about Starfire. she was always someone who moved to a different drum, and it wasn't like she is a slut or anything.

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#93 Posted by FrankRMB (5 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish there was a some way yto post a journal you like alot onto your acount.

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#94 Posted by EganTheVile1 (6752 posts) - - Show Bio

Any chance DC will get the hint from pissed off fans and start publishing titles centered around pre-new 52, and treat New-52 as an alternate reality the same way Marvel does the Ultimates and Zombie-Verse? I mean this is just starting to feel like writers too lazy to fact check

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#95 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio
@EganTheVile1 said:

Any chance DC will get the hint from pissed off fans and start publishing titles centered around pre-new 52, and treat New-52 as an alternate reality the same way Marvel does the Ultimates and Zombie-Verse? I mean this is just starting to feel like writers too lazy to fact check

fact check what?
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#96 Posted by Sner2000 (142 posts) - - Show Bio

I can admit that I was probably quick to jump the gun. However, I still don't like the way Starfire is being written. Whether or not it was all leading up to a big revalation for us readers doesn't matter to me. The writers still CHOSE to portray her that way. No matter their reasons or interperatations, I don't like seeing females portrayed as casual sex-fiends. Am I insulting all women by saying that? Some may get offended, but I stand by my opinion. Whatever the writers had planned all along, I know what makes me uncomfortable when I read it. Doesn't matter what Starfire's motives were, her actions offended me, and therefore, so did the writers. I'll always love Star, but I won't always love what she does or what she wears. It's a little hard for me to articulate WHY this bothers me in text, but I've explained it the best I could.
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#97 Posted by gmanfromheck (42524 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Kid_Lantern said:

What I don't understand, is if the New 52 Teen Titans are really the first official group by that name... how and why are Dick, Kori, and Roy teaming up in a flashback and not Titans themselves? Or are we to believe they were just called Titans with no Teen in front of the title?

Unless I missed it, I don't think the current Teen Titans is the first official group. When Tim puts out the cry, he said something like, "The name just felt natural." I got the impression he just felt it was right to use it rather than he just came up with it on the spot.

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#98 Posted by DMC (2006 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh.....the costume still sucks

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#99 Posted by EganTheVile1 (6752 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

@EganTheVile1 said:

Any chance DC will get the hint from pissed off fans and start publishing titles centered around pre-new 52, and treat New-52 as an alternate reality the same way Marvel does the Ultimates and Zombie-Verse? I mean this is just starting to feel like writers too lazy to fact check

fact check what?

Fact check the history of the DCU, what else?

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#100 Posted by Skies327 (231 posts) - - Show Bio

@EganTheVile1 said:

@spiderbat87 said:

@EganTheVile1 said:

Any chance DC will get the hint from pissed off fans and start publishing titles centered around pre-new 52, and treat New-52 as an alternate reality the same way Marvel does the Ultimates and Zombie-Verse? I mean this is just starting to feel like writers too lazy to fact check

fact check what?

Fact check the history of the DCU, what else?

Because fact-checking for a universal reboot seems necessary.

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